/Signed
I did Slaver's all the way through in Normal Mode, and the first perfectly-set group that I went to do Duncan with had two slow-loaders. They couldn't help it, and we got destroyed. We eventually had to DISBAND THE GROUP on account of the slowload and find new ones. In NORMAL mode. Forget Hard Mode, something that stupid shouldn't happen in Normal mode. Fix the patrol to not cross anywhere near the spawn point, or put the spawn point right next to the door.
Duncan Hard Mode Stone Summit AI Needs Work NOW.
TaCktiX
Sasuke The Betrayer
I don't think people are getting the point that Guild Wars was made as a game for low end computers, who could even play using dial up. Duncan sucks for them, since they'd obviously aggro unintentionally and get their party killed.
MrSlayer
A note; this issue is evident in DoA too. If you are attacking the large spawn/mob in the final room/area of Foundry (this is in a 3 man group) and a Ki wanders close to any of the margonite groups, the Ki will continue to run back and heal them, no matter how ridiculously far away he is from the group. If you aggro him, you can kill him, but usually you're trapped by both QZ range, and angry titans/margonites.
In the FoW, if you try to kill the group on the right, and the 2 Patrolling Elementalists have spawned in a certain spot, both Monks will run down from the group on the hill, making it impossible to kill them (since the Monks spread out and can't easily be nuked together). Speaking of which; when you spawn in the FoW, it isn't uncommon for a nearby group to leroy Rastigan/the party too. This is not usually fatal, but can be in HM depending on average connection speed of your group. I have also spawned and loaded into UW to see that an Aatxe has rushed down from the stairs and is hitting me, because a Nightmare spawned within range of me. And my load time is usually 3-10 seconds tops.
This problem is evident pretty much everywhere. The only fix would be to stop them from being able to heal anyone outside their own spawn/group, which is going to mean editing almost every single area of GW in order to say which Monk spawns in which mob, and which monk should stay with each mob. And come on; unless there is a danger to profit, or some sort of insult (racism, sexism) or something that will drive people away from spending their money in the GW Store, this will sadly not be fixed by Anet.
In the FoW, if you try to kill the group on the right, and the 2 Patrolling Elementalists have spawned in a certain spot, both Monks will run down from the group on the hill, making it impossible to kill them (since the Monks spread out and can't easily be nuked together). Speaking of which; when you spawn in the FoW, it isn't uncommon for a nearby group to leroy Rastigan/the party too. This is not usually fatal, but can be in HM depending on average connection speed of your group. I have also spawned and loaded into UW to see that an Aatxe has rushed down from the stairs and is hitting me, because a Nightmare spawned within range of me. And my load time is usually 3-10 seconds tops.
This problem is evident pretty much everywhere. The only fix would be to stop them from being able to heal anyone outside their own spawn/group, which is going to mean editing almost every single area of GW in order to say which Monk spawns in which mob, and which monk should stay with each mob. And come on; unless there is a danger to profit, or some sort of insult (racism, sexism) or something that will drive people away from spending their money in the GW Store, this will sadly not be fixed by Anet.
trobinson97
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Julia-Louis Dreyfus
this mob was there since day one on Normal mode, slow loaders=party whipe sometimes. its not that big of a deal, annoying yes, but if your party is too stupid to run away from the shrine then thats their fault
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Lol, did you even read your own post, much less the OPs? What good is running going to do when you find you've already gotten aggro by the time you can move? Not that big of a deal? Man you're an idiot.
Edit: Oh, and my bad:
/signed
BigUgly
/ Signed
Done Duncan many time before and after the nerf. With many being with pugs some good some bad. But it's never fun telling someone that you need to kick them because their load time is to slow and your group really doesn't want to take the time again to run/fight to the entrance and then have to do it again because they load slow.
Done Duncan many time before and after the nerf. With many being with pugs some good some bad. But it's never fun telling someone that you need to kick them because their load time is to slow and your group really doesn't want to take the time again to run/fight to the entrance and then have to do it again because they load slow.
william1975
/signed
its a particularly bad start,
however i have had problems in many other areas with groups forming together then staying together, this is something that happens in HM all over, monks from other groups once aggroed will stay witht the other group for a long time.
Duncan's dungeon is bad simply due to the load in point being too close to two groups and in NM i had problems with it, despite bing with Heroes and Henchmen only. countering it in NM was just to run as far away from both groups because they eventualy stop following and you can then attack sepereatly, however, with HM I imagine that the summit will stay locked onto you for a longer distance so runnign away isn;t an option, and workign off Death Penalty isn;t either as you will be removed from the dungeon when you whit 60%DP. A very quick thing since they form on youwhere you ressurect
its a particularly bad start,
however i have had problems in many other areas with groups forming together then staying together, this is something that happens in HM all over, monks from other groups once aggroed will stay witht the other group for a long time.
Duncan's dungeon is bad simply due to the load in point being too close to two groups and in NM i had problems with it, despite bing with Heroes and Henchmen only. countering it in NM was just to run as far away from both groups because they eventualy stop following and you can then attack sepereatly, however, with HM I imagine that the summit will stay locked onto you for a longer distance so runnign away isn;t an option, and workign off Death Penalty isn;t either as you will be removed from the dungeon when you whit 60%DP. A very quick thing since they form on youwhere you ressurect
electrofish
/signed
People who didn't sign, try playing a monk on a slow connection when you go in and admire the floor with the rest of your teammates, this is clearly a design fault and if you like these kind of 'challenges' limit yourself to one monk when you do Duncan HM next time.
People who didn't sign, try playing a monk on a slow connection when you go in and admire the floor with the rest of your teammates, this is clearly a design fault and if you like these kind of 'challenges' limit yourself to one monk when you do Duncan HM next time.
T. Drake
/signed
This happens every time we enter Duncan’s level. Guess I have to tell my guild leader that I’m not going to play with him, until he buys a new computer (he’s got long loading times) :P
It’s just a badly designed level, but I gave up wondering why A.Net designers don’t know or don’t want to know what a “safety zone” is.
I think I can find at least one example in each chapter, where a mob wipes your party constantly at a resurrection shrine.
The best example for Nightfall would be the “Breaking the Broken” Master-Quest >.>
This happens every time we enter Duncan’s level. Guess I have to tell my guild leader that I’m not going to play with him, until he buys a new computer (he’s got long loading times) :P
It’s just a badly designed level, but I gave up wondering why A.Net designers don’t know or don’t want to know what a “safety zone” is.
I think I can find at least one example in each chapter, where a mob wipes your party constantly at a resurrection shrine.
The best example for Nightfall would be the “Breaking the Broken” Master-Quest >.>
You can't see me
Thanks for all the support, but when it comes to whether this will be fixed or not, I don't think Arenanet is seriously THAT greedy as a stereotype company as not to fix problems in the game that do not incur profit.
Longasc
BAD THREAD NAME, BADLY MISLEADING
but /signed.
The spawn is there in normal mode, too, and slowloaders doom the party. It cannot be that one of the most critical parts of this dungeon is loading it...^^
but /signed.
The spawn is there in normal mode, too, and slowloaders doom the party. It cannot be that one of the most critical parts of this dungeon is loading it...^^
BLOODGOAT
Quote:
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
I've heard no count of that happening?
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Jeremy Untouchable
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
Arena Net doesn't know how to play their own game like we do.
What they probably do is /Command 100000 health 100000 energy 100000 damage And then they test it! A lot of areas in Guild Wars have a horrible design, it's like having a monkey place random mobs on a map. |
/signed
kradens
Yes i agree. the name of the thread is misleading. it doesn't point out the main issue, which is the "loading into dungeon" part. instead it sounds like someone wants the AI dumbed down overall...
please rename thread to more appropriate, or some people just wont get it.
please rename thread to more appropriate, or some people just wont get it.
Bryant Again
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kradens
please rename thread to more appropriate, or some people just wont get it.
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Darkobra
What's confusing about it? Everything is explained in the first post. You can't just read a title and predict a thread.
bilateralrope
I see two problems being mentioned in this thread:
1 - One mobs healer healing another mob. Without knowing the exact areas I'd suggest pulling one mob far enough away from the other to prevent this. If one mob has a stationary target, try pulling the other mob. If this isn't possible, then delete one of the mobs.
2 - Mobs getting too close to player spawn points, both res shrines and portals. I'd suggest simply deleting those mobs, unless the mob itself is actually of importance.
1 - One mobs healer healing another mob. Without knowing the exact areas I'd suggest pulling one mob far enough away from the other to prevent this. If one mob has a stationary target, try pulling the other mob. If this isn't possible, then delete one of the mobs.
2 - Mobs getting too close to player spawn points, both res shrines and portals. I'd suggest simply deleting those mobs, unless the mob itself is actually of importance.
Alexandra-Sweet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jeremy untouchable
i play with some of them. You have the wrong idea ....However this glitch is probably not high on the list of things that need fixing. Having said that
/signed |
And is there even a list at Arena Net of things that need to be fixed? All Arena Net seems to be doing is adding stuff like the the GUI update which cause more things needing to be fixed eventually!
leprekan
/signed
LOL. Most arguing this haven't done it. This is a routing oops on Anet's part not a challenge. Being gangbanged at the spawn isn't a challenge. All I know is I want that Defender as a hero .. he managed to cast SoR while I had him knocked down.
Finally finished slavers hard mode as h+h only ... and won't bother again. 2 hours for 2 req 13 junk gold skins instead of one doesn't merit the time wasted.
LOL. Most arguing this haven't done it. This is a routing oops on Anet's part not a challenge. Being gangbanged at the spawn isn't a challenge. All I know is I want that Defender as a hero .. he managed to cast SoR while I had him knocked down.
Finally finished slavers hard mode as h+h only ... and won't bother again. 2 hours for 2 req 13 junk gold skins instead of one doesn't merit the time wasted.
You can't see me
Yes, the title is not pertaining to the spawnpoint, but rather the AI of the first two groups and how it has problems that need fixing, which is in the latter paragraphs of the OP. Anyone who thinks the title is misleading should go read them -.-
shadavenger
/Sign
Agree...AI is kinda bugged
Agree...AI is kinda bugged
Emik
It's appalling really...
I myself have a good connection so I'm not bothered by it personally but I can imagine how it must be for some people who do have slow connections.
Another example of how patrols venture to close to portals/warp-ins is when you zone from Joko's Domain towards The Shattered Ravines. A group of Margonites is right on top of the portal and stays in range because the res shrine is like a click away.
/signed
I myself have a good connection so I'm not bothered by it personally but I can imagine how it must be for some people who do have slow connections.
Another example of how patrols venture to close to portals/warp-ins is when you zone from Joko's Domain towards The Shattered Ravines. A group of Margonites is right on top of the portal and stays in range because the res shrine is like a click away.
/signed
TheLichMonky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jeremy untouchable
i play with some of them. You have the wrong idea ....However this glitch is probably not high on the list of things that need fixing. Having said that
/signed |
TheLichMonky
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Originally Posted by Spazzer
?_? That's odd. That's exactly what it looks like you are doing.
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kazjun
/signed
Though I don't really care. I got my master of the north points and my chest icon on the map, and frankly I can't see myself going back. Not worth the time or effort. Just do it in NM if you want the loot.
Though I don't really care. I got my master of the north points and my chest icon on the map, and frankly I can't see myself going back. Not worth the time or effort. Just do it in NM if you want the loot.
BLOODGOAT
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
I see two problems being mentioned in this thread:
1 - One mobs healer healing another mob. Without knowing the exact areas I'd suggest pulling one mob far enough away from the other to prevent this. If one mob has a stationary target, try pulling the other mob. If this isn't possible, then delete one of the mobs. 2 - Mobs getting too close to player spawn points, both res shrines and portals. I'd suggest simply deleting those mobs, unless the mob itself is actually of importance. |
A2 - Deleting the mob makes it too easy. I propose the mobs just remain stationary until they are engaged in one form or another. I find it to be a huge RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing annoyance when I'm trying to fast-trap a mob, ensuring they're one aggro bubble away, but these enemies still find it mandatory to patrol 1000ft from their original spawn just to "check things out". Of course this doesn't apply just to fast-trapping, but UW, FoW, and any other HM area alike. The monsters move too much.
You can't see me
It wouldn't be so bad if they patrolled and just didn't engage you. I don't think they should remain stationary, since that would be very easy. I DO agree with you, however, that a mob should only engage you if your party is within the agro bubble, and not engage you if you are just close.
NeHoMaR
The only part I agree is ArenaNet must make team to spawn in safe places, not only in Duncan mission, everywhere. It's true some people spawn slower than others and you need the full 8 people team for the fight.
DRGN
Did this with guildmates over the weekend. VERY annoying. We had to restart once and go back to town because one person loaded late and aggroed the mob, and this led to us getting thrown out from 60% DP. We managed to do it the second time around, but he loaded and just, and I do mean JUST(about two in-game inches away), avoided aggroing the mob, and we were eventually able to kill them.
For those of you who haven't been on this: Think of the Avicara in Mineral Springs right when you spawn in. Now imagine the res shrine being right where you spawn. Now imagine the Avicara actually being a threat and being even closer to the spawn point. That's roughly the situation, but it's actually a bit worse.
For those of you who haven't been on this: Think of the Avicara in Mineral Springs right when you spawn in. Now imagine the res shrine being right where you spawn. Now imagine the Avicara actually being a threat and being even closer to the spawn point. That's roughly the situation, but it's actually a bit worse.
Red-Tide
/signed, that patrol sucks in NM & HM...
Gaile Gray
I agree, this is a very well written and logical presentation of a concern. We'll be posting this reference and a link in the CS of this week. And thank you, to the OP, for presenting a very good post: Logical description, background, suggestions, and more. And all with a positive tone. Kudos! 
garethporlest18
Um I just wanted to point out that, I agree with the OP and that in FoW you get about a 95% chance of not aggroing something. Because the spawn south of the ghostly sometimes wanders over right into your party.
Carboplatin
i actually know what the op is talking about because i've experienced it. I can beat duncan on HM anyday of the week GIVEN that i don't spawn in the dungeon aggroing the first group.
If i do aggro as soon as i spawn, chances are the henchies are aready dead. If i manage to kill that first group, then everything will go smoothly. However if that first group wipes me, then the MM will raise 10 minions with jagged bones, and the healers from the second group will follow the patroling group, hence "linking" the two groups together. That is simply bad design imo, and does not test the "skill" of the player.
If i do aggro as soon as i spawn, chances are the henchies are aready dead. If i manage to kill that first group, then everything will go smoothly. However if that first group wipes me, then the MM will raise 10 minions with jagged bones, and the healers from the second group will follow the patroling group, hence "linking" the two groups together. That is simply bad design imo, and does not test the "skill" of the player.
trobinson97
Quote:
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Originally Posted by R Langdon
i actually know what the op is talking about because i've experienced it. I can beat duncan on HM anyday of the week GIVEN that i don't spawn in the dungeon aggroing the first group.
If i do aggro as soon as i spawn, chances are the henchies are aready dead. If i manage to kill that first group, then everything will go smoothly. However if that first group wipes me, then the MM will raise 10 minions with jagged bones, and the healers from the second group will follow the patroling group, hence "linking" the two groups together. That is simply bad design imo, and does not test the "skill" of the player. |
That's exactly why this should be left alone. It's a challenge and it's what PvE is all about, skill>time. If you change the spawn location it will turn this elite dungeon into a playground for scrubs.
AmIright?
Wacky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT
You can die off spawn in FoW, don't propagate falsehood.
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Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
That's exactly why this should be left alone. It's a challenge and it's what PvE is all about, skill>time. If you change the spawn location it will turn this elite dungeon into a playground for scrubs.
AmIright? |
Carboplatin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by trobinson97
That's exactly why this should be left alone. It's a challenge and it's what PvE is all about, skill>time. If you change the spawn location it will turn this elite dungeon into a playground for scrubs.
AmIright? |
however, thats not a challenge, thats just taking advantage. A challenge is if anet can come up with a team build of 8 stone summits that are lvl 20 and can actually wipe me, that would be a challenge.
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I agree, this is a very well written and logical presentation of a concern. We'll be posting this reference and a link in the CS of this week. And thank you, to the OP, for presenting a very good post: Logical description, background, suggestions, and more. And all with a positive tone. Kudos!
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Thank you, Gaile. Quite flattering coming from you. And thanks for noting the concern. I'm sure I and others who have experienced the problem are grateful for your response.
A11Eur0
Quote:
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
Underworld: Your party spawns well away from all creature agros in hard mode, and all creatures stay with their groups. Fissure of Woe: Exactly the same deal. |
HAHAHAHA
HHHAHA
HA
How many times have I had a group spawn a bit late in FoW in normal OR hard mode and aggro the shadow warrior on the left and Shadow Elementalist on the right...hmm.
Oh and if someone in UW moves a bit too far left and pops a nightmare at the top of the stairs, the Aatxes on that side also come a-runnin' because they're linked.
Luck of the draw. So what? At least you didn't pay to get into Duncan's dungeon.
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
Oh and if someone in UW moves a bit too far left and pops a nightmare at the top of the stairs, the Aatxes on that side also come a-runnin' because they're linked.
Luck of the draw. So what? At least you didn't pay to get into Duncan's dungeon. |
odly
/sign On making sure you spawn outside aggro range
I'm not sure about changing the patrolling.
I prefer people going forward to kill so they can res at the res shrine safelly should they die. Run back and break aggro if you have to. Sacrifice someone if you have to. If you lure them to your only res shrine it's your problem.
I'm not sure about changing the patrolling.
I prefer people going forward to kill so they can res at the res shrine safelly should they die. Run back and break aggro if you have to. Sacrifice someone if you have to. If you lure them to your only res shrine it's your problem.