"Ping your build" problems

I think you mean libel

that has nothing to do with what i said,and that build isnt even crappy...plus FoW is easy anyway

Why do you think so many people say holy trinity sucks?

Because it's slow, wipe-prone, has no utility, and can be trivially shutdown.

The rule here is simple: don't play with assholes. By and large that means don't PUG, but such is life.

it has a reason, why such builds are "popular", because such builds make playing the game easier, than like any "2 mins thought out Noob-Builds", where the creators looked maybe only at the skill names and thought ..this this and that make a cool combination cause of the ksill names ...

but made absolutely no thoughts about, if their noob builds will have any synergies, or if those builds will ruin your energy only in seconds and you have no way of getting back energy...

those special builds are popular, because they are well thought out, they have synergies and they help you not too lose too quick energy and to fight over longer times with more efficiency...
people, which can't understand this, are sry to say that, just unteachable noobs.

When creating a party, for example making a Dungeon in hard Mord, then a search professional gamers, which know how to play and know, which builds are good for certain areas, then i don't search for noobs, which want to play with their "2 minutes- fun builds" and bitch then around, because they got kicked, because they are unable to understand, that they are (or can be)with their builds a heavy risk for the whole team for success.

Most of such fun-builds end up only, that they are not good enough, or simple said, just crapo and the players are then whining about, why their characters have after 15 minutes or a a death penalty of -60% ...
Then I really don't accept it pesonally, when such fools also start then bitching at the monks...that are really then moments in teh game, where i would love to kick these noobs and rather play with 7/8 further...
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Ping builds is a good feature and should stay, because of that feature, you as party creator can sort out with it the good players out of the masses of noobs out there, before you start a mission/dungeon/quest whatever, ending up with much lesser stress for the whole team

ok, i see what you all are saying

lets change the note of this topic... since
a. its gone away from the original topic
b. i've figured out why it is actually a good thing.

I think I mis-typed my original post, and I would like to change what I meant.

I meant that the only problem with pinging your build is that people will start to complain about the build you are running. I totally mistyped and made it sound like I'm blaming ANet, i apologize for making it sound like that.

The point I was trying to get across was that it is annoying how people get kicked by arrogant jerks who think that Wiki builds are the SUPER BEST and anything else isn't worthy.


Edit:
and I also run a hybrid heal/prot build... you really think i'm that dumb not to?

Oh, for sure I think everyone hates that, except for the people who do it... But then, is there really any way we can change their behavior? It's kind of like raging against the ocean.

Now...
Replace WoH with ZB, replace rebirth with GoLE.

For non-hex areas, and for just regular healing, GoH will work better than Dwayna's.

The reason for ZB instead of WoH is quite simple. In combination with GoLE you get energy management, and it's a self-heal - both of which you're lacking.

The complementary build to that, if you want to run with two prot monks, is to replace WoH with Divert Hexes, and remove hex with Aegis.

And you have your "cookie cutter" prot monk build. So... why all the drama - it works and has been proven.

And at this point, you might as well look into the "cookie cutter" healing builds.

Sorry, I totally love the ping build feature, I understand frustration for being kicked for cookie cutter fitting. But I also look at it a different way, people dont want to spend an hr or 2 doing an area, only to lose because some botard is running a warrior with healing hands, healing breeze and mending. There is always a trade off I guess, but imo the good WAY WAY outweighs the bad. If you want to group and dont want others to be concerned of your build, run h/h or a guild group.

QTFW!

Warrior is one of my favorite class' to play - second only to the Necromancer. I never play as a tank.

This is again completely derailing the thread, for that I'm sorry.

But if you're ditching WoH ditch it for LoD, not ZB. - If your other monk is choosing to run LoD then ditch it for RC or SoD

LoD + ZB combo was shown to be very unreliable a few months after NF, ZB is just too unreliable in a 2 monk set up, especially with skills like LoD and Sig Reju floating around, it's very unlikely that in a solid team you'll get that <50% bonus. and with that said it's also very risky letting something drop below 50%. Especially if you bring hard mode into the equation.

I'd always run LoD or a HB+HP (very rarely though) - I can't see a good reason to choose ZB over SoD, RC, or DH.

To be honest, Rebirth isn't always bad... I don't know why people whine about it. It really depends HOW it's used. On my necromancer I can get a nuker or something fast, without any problem since I have Soul Reaping... at 10 SR, if the fight does NOT stop while I res, I'll be at close to full energy in a short while. I'd NEVER take that on an ele, since I'd have all my energy drained and at 90+e... it's long. Same on monk, same on warrior for obvious, tanking reasons, dervish, etc.

IMHO, that's called knowledge.

And TBH, I don't intend to offend either, but I won't play with PvP players much these days anyways. Most of the PvP players I played with (not all, thank god) have been patronizing and totally arrogant... and when I loook back at it, a lot of the PvE players as well. I guess I'm tired of the general GW community, thus why I'm playing with my friends and/or heroes. We can think outside of the box - and succeed - without dealing with "OMFG YOUR RUNNING THIS BUILD, NOOB!!!!".

Anyways, back on topic... As for my part, I ping my build whenever I have to pug. First of all, to let people know what I'm running, and I accept criticism as long as it's valid. I try to do the same, but some bars are just downright horrible.

Example: We were running ToPK with a 6/8 alliance group - all we were missing were a b/p and an orders necro. The team leader was spamming "GLF Exp. Orders, ping build upon entry". We got the following:



The necro got AUTOMATICALLY kicked. It made no sense whatsoever, and none of us were in the mood to explain how to play orders;
- As a saccing necro, you don't want MORE health. You want LOWER health.
- Meteor Shower causes exhaustion. 'Nuff said.
- Incendiary Bonds is already a "meh" skill on a ele. Passable, but still.
- 6 Soul Reaping, coupled with OoP/OoV spams and Meteor Shower... I don't even want to think about it.
- No self-healing whatsoever, which is primordial for something that sacs a lot (let the monk focus on the b/p's...)

And that's why I'm thankful we make everyone ping builds.

Other than that, I'll gladly help with builds or give advice when needed, just like I want advice when I'm running something.

Any player who describes himself in party spam as "exp" or "pro" isn't. The same could be said of people who respond to party spam including these terms. The moral: Next time, don't ask for an "exp" orders.

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On an unrelated note: What's up with my posts getting deleted?

Celestial wins the thread, even if she/he never takes a rez, and is a dirty scotsman.

If your build sucks, I don't want to play with you. Pinging it tells me if it sucks. Your refusal to change it tells me even more. Tells me enough to kick you out, and make sure I don't have to slog through with a team full of subpar bars.

I find that ping saves time in many cases. Going into FoW or any area thats above average difficulty can take an hour of standing around and it sucks when one retarded person messes it up. Some people try to just give you a build but that doesn't work very well. Some builds take practice to play effectively after all. Also, a persons skill bar isn't an indication of their skill in the game. I've met people with the usual copypasta builds and they had no idea what they were doing. *lol* I've been playing since August '06 and I can honestly say that I didn't really learn to play until about June '07. I'm not a pro but I can play a darned good Necro or Ranger and am willing to get good at other professions.

The problem is not with pinging. Its the attitude of many of the people in the game. They'll kick someone who doesn't have the "right" build but never tell him/her what they can do to improve their build. Being a noob or just bad at GW aren't the only reasons people run bad or suboptimal builds. But many "pro" and "expert" players don't want to take the time to help these people and so they never get any better.

Sort of OT: I've been getting alot of people telling me to run copypasta builds on my heroes lately. If I'm in a mixed Pug I ping my heroes builds out of courtesy and everyone seems to think they're experts on what builds are good for them. I've been testing copypasta builds(classic stuff like Obby Tank and B/P Ranger) on my heroes and have had mixed results. Anyway...has this happened to anyone else?

my most questioned build is my MM build for MoW:
[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Horror[/skill][skill]Blood of The Master[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Well of Blood[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

Well, I have a tendency Not to PUG. But When I Do, I have seen some amazing things. I had the pleasure of doing Hell's not long back, run by a warrior with a pet. It was after the Winter/GC nerf. The warrior and second in the list both had bad builds. But I waited until we got wiped once before making suggestions.

Something else, recently someone was asking for help. They were kicked by a party because they were a Wa/Mo and were told they were kicked because Wa/Mos are useless in high end areas. I suspect it was more than that - becasue when I asked how they wanted to run their warrior - I got a build that was deficient by 30 Att Pts, had no elite skills, and none of the skills chained or even cooperated. (Ie. stances that would cancel one another.) So, I set about helping the warrior to first get their att points, get their secondary classes, and discuss some skill theory about chaining skills. Then I showed them that with a good monk - a warrior does not need to heal themselves. And boy did he like doing damage for a change. As he had survived to RoF without any of the above niceties, he was more than skilled enough to play a real build once he had the tools.

No, I really like build pinging. The sharing for constructive and beneficial reasons far outweighs the rules lawyers. And there are places where builds really need to be shared - Modoc Crevice leaps to mind, Rihlon Reach is another, Fighting Shiro and the Lich also. If the skill bars of the members will not cover needed areas - the proper thing for a leader to do is ask "Who can be my best interupter? Who can pull/call, tank, heal, prot, etc.

There has never been any official reason for the party leader to be responsible for the party, the only thing they can do the others cannot is launch the mission (Tyria and Cantha only) and kick. Still, somehow this translates into responsibility for the mission. And lets face it - some granted responsibility/authority will overreact.

all and all i love the ability to ping your build in guild chat we tend to ping a lot of builds and discuss them. i can say i've made builds better. there has been times i wish someone would have pointed out my skill choice when i actually took the wrong elite and didn't notice it til i was half way through a mission. had been doing b/p and really wanted bha in there knew what worked better for the mission just forgot to change. i never get angry when someone asks for something as long as they decide to discuss why its better and for party sake i've changed my builds to synergize better. i remember a time when doing vizunah with my necro i wanted to go mm and there was another mm and i was all for taking 2 mms i was able to talk group into allowing me to mm at the time ended up we got masters. there is alway the pug that will kick you because you werent what they wanted or not give you a chance to change your build before demanding a ping. sad fact is most of the time they don't ask you to change before they kick.

Pinging skills is not the problem, if you had typed out your skills you would've also been kicked by the same person. It is the player, not the mechanic.

Now, unless the leader kicked you without asking you to change your build, then he wasn't being a jerk.

Ping'in builds for friend's, AC and GC and wateva's neat, but as someone else has said if your builds not what the leader wants then there is discrimatory and a lot of it. I think a person should be able to use what build they prefer that will do or wont do the job.

Me personally I always create decent enough builds to desicate my enemies, Though sometimes the leader can be a real twit and think it's not going to work. Just test it out and see what works well for your party.

Remember it's only a game.

Never been kicked for my build either. Closest to that was someone posting one statement in team chat that I should have used healing prayers and not protection...

Only time I can recall someone being booted for no reason was the PUG leader in one of the maguuma area missions booting a level 13 monk and replacing her with a level 20 tahlkora. I felt it was a mistake, simply because I prefer humans, but didn't say anything.

[skill]Heal Area[/skill] heals foes if they are within range. Never good to use that skill on any character that expects to be in range of combat.

In PUGs, I see Wa/Mos use it a lot, alongside [skill]Healing Breeze[/skill]... At least that skill isn't helping the enemy though...

Can lead to a wipe, as my own Prots and heals become notably less useful if the tank, or in your case the MM, is healing the other side...

MMs dont generally use Heal Area around enemy...olias might be the exception lol

damn i WOULD consider kicking a warrior if i ever saw HB on there build

When I was gettin trained as a backpacking guide, and again later when I was in the military - we had a rule, in both of them, that I think applies here:

Plan for every eventuality, but go in expecting nothing.

In law, preparing a case, we take the same approach. Plan fully, but don't come in with a preset expectation.

Put another way, don't assume the event will go as planned, so plan for the possibility that it will go otherwise.

I carry a rez on my monks, in fact I carry Rebirth. I plan for the unexpected. The rest of my skills are there with the hope that I won't need Rebirth, but I know that even if I perform at my best, something might go wrong.

A case in point from life for me outside of the game - during final exams of my second year in grad school I was sitting parked in traffic - doing 0mph. Cars ahead and behind me also parked. 3 cars back somebody decided they didn't need their brakes, and I suddenly found myself in the middle of a seven car pileup. No fault of my own. I am a good driver, but I still wear a seatbelt. I don't expect a crash, but I plan for it possibly happening. And that day, it saved my life.

Good skill is not just being so good that even other people fail to make mistakes when in your presence... good skill is also knowing how to pick up the pieces once those mistakes do happen. The best groups aren't the ones lucky enough to get through without meeting a single unexpected challenge that can best them, but the ones that can manage a comeback from even the worst odds - the ones that have the tools on hand to handle a surprise. Like this afternoon when I was doing Costume brawl and we were down almost 10 kills to 3, and somehow won before the timer was out.

Heal area is quite popular on Minion masters, it's good for healing minions when you're idle (not fighting), so you don't sac yourself to death while healing them.
i usually bring it when doing MM, not always though.
The AI likes to go after minions too, so they don't pile up on the necro as easily

Not "Never"...I take one when it's fitting to do so.

I only live in Scotland. I'm actually a dirty Englishman.

Unlike the military, if you die, you get ressed at a shrine. Also, there are Powerstones for if you really screw up, and a Scroll of Resurrection so that you don't need a res on your bar...because there's one in your inventory, even if it does only res you with the same health and energy as [wiki]Resurrect[/wiki].

wont hold that against you..lol

i guess it comes down to the individual about rez..you do have 7 more slots to play with..so if you cant make a good build from 7 slots there is something wrong with your abilities...

I've never been shrine rez'd during any mission I can recall. If everyone dies, mission over, re-do the last 30 minutes to 3+ hours of gameplay from the top...

In 36 years I have yet to find anything in life where the lesson of be prepared but don't presume doesn't work.

Exactly. GW:EN's dungeons and consumables have spoiled everybody. There was once an ability to "fail" in an area of GW (still is possible in some places).

i like being able to ping builds. why just the other day while forming a party for the great destroyer, we come across an ele and a ranger that wanted to join. now before we go in i asked everyone to ping their builds. turns out that ele was a SF ele and the ranger had burning arrow. if we couldnt ping our builds there, we would have had 2 completely useless players on our team.

Not quite sure what practice group you're in.

Preparing for a case is actually similar to pugging/setting up a group.

Understand your weaknesses, compensate for them, and have realistic expectations of your potential. You always have a preset expectation.

Just like if I see a Monk with Heal Other, Heal Party, and Healing Seed on the same bar, my preset expectation is that he will run out of energy, so I compensate for that by kicking him.

Just out of curiosity, anyone else ever ping joke builds, just for laughs?

Example of joke Mo/Me build:
[skill]echo[/skill][skill]arcane echo[/skill][skill]mending[/skill][skill]Signet of Disenchantment[/skill][skill]Holy Strike[/skill][skill]Vengeance[/skill][skill]Light of Dwayna[/skill][skill]resurrect[/skill]

I get a kick out of seeing peoples' reactions when I ping something like that.

I think that the ability to ping the build is a good addition addition to GW. That feature isn't responsible for the actions you state, it is people using the gwiki builds as gospel and not being open minded to other builds.

Haha, yeah... my guild leader does that - he's a good monk, but he tends to act like that x]. I remember an episode where, in the beginning of a ToPK run, he started to scream "WHATS WOH????!"... and about 3 people left. He ping'ed roughly the same bar as mentionned in my quote befire entering FoW (and changed it after, mind you), even a 55 build in the beginning of a mission. "I'm gonna run this! *pings uber bad W/Mo build while he's a monk*."

Always found it funny. We just make sure an alliance member or a friend is the leader of a group when we do this, 'cause they know it's just a joke.

And I have fun pre-typing skill actions and "spamming" them. "I'm using Mending on Kill To Believe! I'm using Mending on Kill To Believe!" (yeah, I've got permission to use his name). Then he "pings", in a similar manner, "I have Mending on me!".

This is a common misconception: 83% of 600 is more than 83% of 485. That said, if you can afford to keep your saccer under constant Prot Spirit you're right.

pspirit saccing has been nerfed

If a party leader kicks me for the build I have without making suggestions to improve it, it tells me something about him/her: He/she doesn't have the wit or knowledge to make suggestions to improve it, he/she has a cookie-cutter mentality and can't comprehend that there are many, many perfectly viable builds not listed on wiki, and he/she is an arrogant, know-it-all jerk who I wouldn't want to party up with anyway! As a player, I'm open to suggestions, and won't be offended if someone offers up one - I want to rock that mission/quest/etc. just as much as the next guy.

If I'm the party leader, I only check builds to see that they're not moronic in nature. I also look for certian skills that may fit well in the situation at hand. I may ask (never tell, unless it's a guildie - hehe) someone to bring skill x or skill y, but if the build looks viable, I won't bash it. If the person I'm making suggestions to gives attitude, then they're gone, it's that simple. My biggest peeve is a skill bar loaded with secondary profession skills - If you're an ELE, BE AN ELE!!!!!!!

My brother and I had fun with this the other day. We were working on some characters getting thru Kryta for Protector of Tyria. His lvl 20 Rit, my lvl 20 Derv. We decided to help some people thru at D'Alessio Seaboard.

Lvl 14 warrior who thought his build was Leet. My brother watched his skills. He was using Conjure Phantasm and Ether feast.

Considering my brother had a healing rit, I had a Lyssa derv (with Heart of Holy Flame, for the undead).....were we in danger?

warrior caster gogo,shoulda told him to play mesmer IMO

The one known as law...

In any area of legal work, you had better prepare fully, and if you come into it with too much of a preconception, you're just adding to your odds of having all the things your preconception failed you to prepare for coming up and throwing you off.

That lesson holds for anything in life. Be prepared but don't presume.


I'm not sure what the poster commenting about GW:EN's consumables was getting at. I myself have never used them, so they don't factor into my analysis.

Before the ability to ping your build, people would spend an extra 10 minutes in town going, "I have x, y, z, ..." while everyone is trying to keep up with what everyone else is switching...it was a mess. Build coordination should be encouraged; if you go in a group, and you don't want to run what the leader tells you to run, you'd better have a darn good excuse if you're doing anything difficult at all. The team is more than just you doing your job well; you need to do the job that the team expects you to do well.

And, believe it or not, it's really not just a matter of, "Well if the monk brings heal/prot skills, everything should be fine." Some players run craptacular builds. Sometimes it doesn't matter as much; if the ele takes a crappy build, hopefully the other 7 players will be able to make up for the slack in damage. However, if the monk takes a crap build, it shows as soon as your team starts dropping. So, yes, if a player pings a bad build, I will tell them to change it. I will also tell them why their build is horrible. If they refuse, they get kicked. My heroes with good builds >> some PUG player with a crap build.