I suck.

coaster

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/W

I'm a level 19 N/W (unfortunately), 45 Cabal armor, max damage gold truncheon, 500/48 health and energy. Not a bad character considering I hardly play. However I seem to really suck. I've seen people level 14 who can pull about 10 monsters that normally somebody my level would do, and kill them all (either farming or missions). But I can't seem to take on more than 1 at a time, 2 if I'm lucky.

Why do I suck? Due to my inability to farm, I can't invest too much into armor to last longer. But it's not just farming; in general quests and missions I seem to lose health fast, or die.

Is it my skills? I don't have many since I don't have much time to devote to the game. My skill points now are 9 blood magic, 8 death magic, 8 soul reaping, 7 curses, 5 tactics. None I've invested in my warrior side since I use a truncheon.

My actual kills contain the following...

Barbed Signet, Blood Ritual, Shadow Strike, Vampiric Gaze, Well of Blood, Defile Flesh, Enfeebling Blood, Faintheartedness, Shadow of Fear, Soul Barbs, Suffering, Weaken Armor, Animate Bone Horror, Death Nova, Deathly Swarm, Necrotic Traversal, Rotting Flesh, Soul Feast, Vile Touch, Well of Suffering, I Will Survive, Endure Pain, Healing Signet, Shield Stance, Resurrection Signet.

I have no real build because I don't know what works and what doesnt, and thus far my current skills seem to suck no matter how I have them.

I'm not sure what else to include. What should I be doing to die less? Out of my available skills, what kind of build should I make for now?

(Just a note, I didn't put this thread in the farming section since it's not primarily about farming).

Moloch Vein

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

The main reason you suck, as you put it, is you spread your attributes way too thin. You should go with maximizing one spell line plus your primary attribute. That means Curses + Soul Reaping, Blood + Soul Reaping, Death + Soul Reaping.

Forget that you have a secondary. /W is almost useless. You can change it after ascension.

Also, I have to ask you about equipment. Are you using a truncheon with no offhand? That would be a major error. Is your armor upgraded with proper runes? That would be, for you, attunements, a vigor rune, and getting four headpieces, one for each attribute, and put on a rune of the appropriate attribute on it.

Your skills seem to miss a whole lot of bread-and-butter skills.

Answer these first questions and we'll start from there.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

Max out blood, put rest in Soul Reaping, and use all of the blood skills you have. Not the greatest build, but probably an improvement, and the easiest one to use.

coaster

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Forget that you have a secondary. /W is almost useless. You can change it after ascension.
I'll definitely change if not just leave and ignore it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Moloch Vein Also, I have to ask you about equipment. Are you using a truncheon with no offhand? That would be a major error. Is your armor upgraded with proper runes? That would be, for you, attunements, a vigor rune, and getting four headpieces, one for each attribute, and put on a rune of the appropriate attribute on it. I have an offhand. It's a gold Idol (+12 Energy/+10 Armor). Fairly good I suppose.

As for armor upgrades, between everything I have; Minor Vigor x2, Rune of Attunement x2, Minor Blood Magic. I could probably stand to invest money/farm for new runes, as these are all minor and somewhat obsolete for my character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Your skills seem to miss a whole lot of bread-and-butter skills. Never heard that analogy before, so I have no clue what that means.

Blackhawk

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/

What areas are you having problems with as well, as I'm assuming at 19 you're at the desert (didn't say which chapter so I'm assuming Prophecies, plus its like 3am so forgive me if Im wrong) which can be a bit of a pain regarding interrupts and degen which I'm guessing is why you might keep dying fast.

coaster

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawk
What areas are you having problems with as well, as I'm assuming at 19 you're at the desert (didn't say which chapter so I'm assuming Prophecies) which can be a bit of a pain regarding interrupts and degen which I'm guessing is why you might keep dying fast. Actually, just making my way out of the jungle now as I sort of forgot to play for at least a month, so that's starting to get easy.

I should also mention that yep, I have Prophecies and nothing else.

coaster

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Max out blood, put rest in Soul Reaping, and use all of the blood skills you have. Not the greatest build, but probably an improvement, and the easiest one to use. I figure that's the best thing to do, plus a couple runes to max it out even more.

Moloch Vein

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

Vigor runes don't stack. Do you mean vitae?

You need insignia on your armor, I recommend radiant for general purpose.

Do you fulfill the requirement for your offhand? Otherwise you only get 6 energy from it.

Bread-and-butter means, "must have" skills. Example, you don't have Blood of the Master. Are you sure those are all you have?

And yes for the skills you have it would probably be easiest to go with something like:

Shadow Strike - Vampiric Gaze - Well of Blood -

Shadow of Fear - Enfeebling Blood (I know I contradict myself but you can get a decent effect at low rank in Curses with these)

Resurrection Signet

Two optional

stick say four points into Curses, that's enough. Spec SR around 9 (maybe 8+1). Boost Blood.

Don't use a superior rune. Use a major one. You want some leeway if you're indeed as poor as you claim.

coaster

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Vigor runes don't stack. Do you mean vitae?
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein You need insignia on your armor, I recommend radiant for general purpose. I'll invest in that shortly.

Quote: Originally Posted by Moloch Vein Do you fulfill the requirement for your offhand? Otherwise you only get 6 energy from it. Absolutely.

Quote: Originally Posted by Moloch Vein Bread-and-butter means, "must have" skills. Example, you don't have Blood of the Master. Are you sure those are all you have? Positive. I guess it wouldn't hurt to go run around and do as much as I can to get skills when I have some time.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

And yes for the skills you have it would probably be easiest to go with something like:

Shadow Strike - Vampiric Gaze - Well of Blood -

Shadow of Fear - Enfeebling Blood (I know I contradict myself but you can get a decent effect at low rank in Curses with these)

Resurrection Signet I'll use that as a base and play around. When I have some time to sit down and do quests I forgot to do I'll experiment with new skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Two optional

stick say four points into Curses, that's enough. Spec SR around 9 (maybe 8+1). Boost Blood. Right now I have Blood at 14, SR at 14, and Curses at 5 (in which I'll up the latter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Don't use a superior rune. Use a major one. You want some leeway if you're indeed as poor as you claim. I went ahead and got some superiors. I have about 10k which is sufficient. I just consider myself poor as I see people level 18-20 whom have 100k+.

Thank you very much!

I'll keep playing around. I guess when I started playing I was strapped for time in the real world and never had much to devote to the game.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster
I went ahead and got some superiors. I have about 10k which is sufficient. I just consider myself poor as I see people level 18-20 whom have 100k+. Don't worry about it, the actual % of people in-game with over 100k isn't very large, in truth.
There was a statistic flying around somewhere saying most accounts have under 20k or somesuch, I dunno how old or true it is, but... 10k's plenty for casual play

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster
I suck
Let's just say that your necro sucks. And see what we can do to fix him.

Quote:
I'm a level 19
Time will fix this. Also, make sure to do Forgotten Wisdom and Hero's Challenge as soon as you can.

Quote:
N/W
I agree with Moloch. For now, forget about your secondary. Later you can change it.

Quote: 45 Cabal armor You're going max armor. Either you can wait till you hit Droks in the normal course of the game, or you can buy a run from Beacons. If you need help coming up with gold/materials, post here and I'm sure people will be willing to assist you. (If no one else will, I will at least.)

You'll probably want radiant insignias for general play. You can buy those now and just salvage them out when you upgrade your armor.

Finally, you're going to want three (max AL) headpieces -- one each for blood, curses, and death magic. Put the corresponding rune into each so that you can swap them when you swap builds.

Quote:
max damage gold truncheon, [and a focus] Stupid question, but do you meet the attribute reqs?

Once you hit the desert, all I can say is, "Collectors are your friends!"

Quote:
My skill points now are 9 blood magic, 8 death magic, 8 soul reaping, 7 curses, 5 tactics. Too thin. As a necro you're going to want to play almost exclusively in one maxed attribute + soul reaping. If you use a third attribute, it's just "splashed" for a vital skill or two and it's never going higher than 8 or maaaaybe 9 (and that's only after you've got all 200 att points).

Quote:
My actual kills contain the following...

Barbed Signet, Blood Ritual, Shadow Strike, Vampiric Gaze, Well of Blood, Defile Flesh, Enfeebling Blood, Faintheartedness, Shadow of Fear, Soul Barbs, Suffering, Weaken Armor, Animate Bone Horror, Death Nova, Deathly Swarm, Necrotic Traversal, Rotting Flesh, Soul Feast, Vile Touch, Well of Suffering, I Will Survive, Endure Pain, Healing Signet, Shield Stance, Resurrection Signet. Building a good build (or even a not-crappy build) out of these skills is going to be like building a life-sized replica of the Empire State Building out of cardboard and glue. We really need to get you some more, and some better, skills. There's 3 ways you can do this:

1. Go back and make sure to do every quest with a necromancer skill as a reward.

2. Use Signets of Capture to get "bread and butter" skills from bosses you can reach . For example, you can cap Barbs, Desecrate Enchantments, and Animate Bone Fiend from
Lord Timont. (If you don't want to carry 3 cap sigs at one time, just cap a skill or two, then abandon and retake the quest. If the quest is already done, pair with someone else who hasn't done it.)

3. Play some low-end PvP (like RA or AB) (using any character) to build up some Balthazaar faction. Use that faction to unlock necro skills that you can't get yet. Once unlocked, those skills will be available to you at every skill trainer in chapter.[/QUOTE]

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
You'll probably want radiant insignias for general play. You can buy those now and just salvage them out when you upgrade your armor. I disagree.

Higher energy does not mean better energy management.

The OP would be much better off with Survivor Insignias for the additional health in my opinion, and dropping all the superior runes. Superiors have a -75 health cost associated with them. For the time being at least, I suggest you use one major rune, or even just a minor rune.

To be honest, you say you suck because you can't withstand an assault by a load of monsters...maybe this is because your health is too low? Using Vigor and Vitae runes, paired with Survivor Insignias and getting rid of Superiors should boost your health up nicely. If you want to re-invest in a staff you are able to put up to an extra 60 health on that too.

High health however is not brilliant if many of your skills involve health sacrifice, but I would steer clear of too many of those skills until you're more familiar with the profession, and your own capabilities.

tmakinen

tmakinen

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

www.mybearfriend.net

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Higher energy does not mean better energy management. Although this is true for other classes it is a bit inaccurate for necromancers which have energy management built directly into the class. With a shallow energy pool you'll be wasting energy every time when SR hits the max energy cap. That said, I still don't consider Radiant the best choice for a necro in most cases because equipment should provide enough of a buffer to play with but I don't find Survivor that great either. While Survivor can help in surviving (well, duh) the same effect can be reached by learning proper positioning (and kiting if it comes to that). Hence my first choice for insignia would be one of the +AL variants.

For the long term surviving strategy the best thing is learning to be sneaky. A large part of the necro repertoire consists of skills with long-lasting effects. Therefore, if you are not a minion master whose task is to maintain a bone cushion between your party and a menagerie of maddened monsters, hang back during the initial engagement and let others take aggro, pick a target and run closer to cast, then immediately run back to a safe distance. In many cases your place in the party is furthest back, even behind the monks, with the primary responsibility of supressing enemy melee units that break into the backline of your party.

Also, it may just be me but I would consider Faintheartedness (and/or Shadow of Fear) and Enfeebling Blood enough of a build to warrant a place for a necro in the party. Whatever you put on top of that is just dressing

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

Hmm....

+ Heath - good for general purposes, bad (very bad) for sacrificing (ie: MMing, or blood spike)

+ Energy - good for high energy casting, but not necessary

I think the OP just needs time to practice and get used to playing his necromancer. Like any game, you can't expect to be good at a game the moment you first try it.

My suggestion is to not bother with insignias or runes on your current armor, wait until you get to Droknar's Forge. That is when you start to invest in your armor.

Moving around is a good way to keep yourself alive.

Personally, I like the +10 defense (but takes +x damage from holy damage).

Remember, monsters like to attack those who have the least health, then least armor.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
I disagree.

Higher energy does not mean better energy management.
I never said it did. But, like tmakinen said, you need a reasonably deep energy pool to get the full mileage out of Soul Reaping. Especially since the nerf that added the stupid timer crap, we need to make certain not to waste any energy we could be getting from deaths.

Quote:
The OP would be much better off with Survivor Insignias for the additional health in my opinion, and dropping all the superior runes. Superiors have a -75 health cost associated with them. 1. Using high health on a class that uses life sac skills is just foolish. And you can't really get "familiar with the profession" without using those skills. Heck, two of the three skill lines pretty much require you to sac life to run them well.

2. Am I cursed to spend the rest of my days combating this stupid notion that Sup runes aren't worth it because of the health penalty? Someone posted that thread in Riverside and now it gets regurgitated all over the place. <sigh> The only place this idea makes any sense at all is in one situation: extremely high-end PvE played extremely aggressively -- so aggressively that you routinely come within 75hp of dead. (Read Ensign's post in the thread in Riverside to get the idea.) For general play, especially the sort of general play Coaster is going to be doing for a looong time to come, the attributes are more valuable than the health. I might add that Death Magic is without a doubt the single attribute that benefits most from having a full 16, and Curses is pretty high up there too. Sup. runes ftw. At least for PvE necromancers.

3. Pick Me is correct that, if you didn't use radiant, you should choose armor rather than life.

Khasar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Crystal Desert

Guild of Dangerous Surprise[GODS]

Ya if you are having touble dying I would suggest blood magic. Almost all of those skills will gain you hp and you can spam Life Siphon around for alot of regen and wells are great to cast from inside of.

definatly change your secondary once you reach the desert. I would suggest mesmer but if you are having a hard time staying alive monk might be a good choice as well.

Mesmer, however, opens up the possibility of a Spiteful Spirit Spammer build which I find to be the most fun one of any I've played so far (MM being the worst). Spiteful Spirit is an Elite skill but its not to difficult to cap and can be done either just south or just north of Camp Rankor (I forget which, maybe both. You can check the wiki for specifics).

Then simply buy the skill Arcane Echo and just sit in the back and cast SS on everyone. You can easily dish out as much damage as any fire nuker can if you cast correctly.

if you want a good farm build check out the 55 SS build posted by Taco.

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khasar
Ya if you are having touble dying I would suggest blood magic. Almost all of those skills will gain you hp and you can spam Life Siphon around for alot of regen and wells are great to cast from inside of.

definatly change your secondary once you reach the desert. I would suggest mesmer but if you are having a hard time staying alive monk might be a good choice as well.

Mesmer, however, opens up the possibility of a Spiteful Spirit Spammer build which I find to be the most fun one of any I've played so far (MM being the worst). Spiteful Spirit is an Elite skill but its not to difficult to cap and can be done either just south or just north of Camp Rankor (I forget which, maybe both. You can check the wiki for specifics).

Then simply buy the skill Arcane Echo and just sit in the back and cast SS on everyone. You can easily dish out as much damage as any fire nuker can if you cast correctly.

if you want a good farm build check out the 55 SS build posted by Taco. Arcane Echo is in Ember Light Camp, far away from where the OP is. SS can be found in:

Snakedance (North of Camp Rankor)
The area south of Camp Rankor
Iron Mines of Moldune (city mission)

He will spawn in one of these areas, but there is no guarantee as to where.

You will find that the best Necro is one that relies on Necromancer skills, not on your secondary's skills. 2ndaries are just to add flavor to your character.

Emik

Emik

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Belgium

[FaRM] Farm For The Win

N/

Arcane Echo can be bought in Kaineng Center...
But this is not the most important topic at hand.
I tend to run around with 2 sets (generally curses since my hero does all the MM'ing nowadays)
1) 20/20 - 20/+1 Being Droknars Curses Scepter and Vilnar's Claw
2) 20/20 - +15/-1,+30 Being Drok's Curses Scepter and the Collectors offhand from the desert.
I have been running around with this for quite some time and energy is not even remotely a problem...
Get in trouble and need to squeeze out that last bit of energy for an additional SS or another high energy cost?
Change to your +15/-1 offhand and hit that button...
Just make sure you don't forget to change back before the enemies die or the SR is pooped.

Apart from that I think everything has pretty much been said by n ow in the previous posts

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

SS necs work good

I do kinda like blood/ curse builds personally

Khasar

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Crystal Desert

Guild of Dangerous Surprise[GODS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick Me
Arcane Echo is in Ember Light Camp. Get your facts straight before you post plz. Arcane Echo can be found in Beetletun and in the Henge of Denravi both places he has most likly been. Its also very easy to cap SS and he just needs to buy a run which would be the most time consuming part of the whole thing probably.

And ya they spawn randomly but just check the wiki to find the possiblt spawns, see which ones are closest, memorize the bosses name and just take quick look at each spot and if your boss isnt there simply re-zone till you get him.

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khasar
Get your facts straight before you post plz. Arcane Echo can be found in Beetletun and in the Henge of Denravi both places he has most likly been. Its also very easy to cap SS and he just needs to buy a run which would be the most time consuming part of the whole thing probably.

And ya they spawn randomly but just check the wiki to find the possiblt spawns, see which ones are closest, memorize the bosses name and just take quick look at each spot and if your boss isnt there simply re-zone till you get him. Really? Sorry... the first time I got it was in Ember Light Camp. I don't recall seeing it before then.

AuraofMana

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Georgia, US

Just give him a MM build and tell him the general team build (he's probably playing with only 1 monk or none). He can figure out everything after he plays a bit (which includes not playing MM all the time).

Necromonger

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

N/Me

Couple of things (haven't played prophecies alone in a long while)

- Necro's are not the easiest character to play (Warriors/Rangers/Monks are a lot easier IMO)
- If you plan to buy any of the other games, buy Nighfall now, go across from LA and get Heroes (makes the game a lot easier than the idiot henchies in prophecies)
- As far as I remember I played my Necro as a MM until late in prophecies, then switched to a Curse build
- What is your typical team choice? do you play PUGs or strickly henchies? what henchies do you choose? (makes a big difference)
- Get the better armor, it makes a big difference, add +1 Soul reaping, Death, Curses at least.