Yesterday I was in an Elona Reach run on my Mesmer (It was so i could quickly get ascended and get the second Attribute Quest...). Anyway during the second part (get the vision gems) I stood at the top near the Ghostly Hero whilst the runner did his thing, two others (a Ranger and a Warrior) decided they would take on the group to the right, so they decided to run in 'all guns blazing', only to slowly retreated as they where losing. The other warrior (who was standing near me at the time) decided to go help. I stayed at with the Gostly Hero, knowing that paying the runner meant I had to stay alive. The Ranger and two Warriors died eventually and asked me to ressurect them. I told them that I didnt have a res, and so it began.
Two of them went off at me because I didnt bring a res, something I rarely do in PvE unless I'm a monk or I know that I will need one. I told them that I dont take res skills in PvE and they starting swearing at me and saying I was a 'noob' because I dont bring res. They argued that I should have brought a res because the team didnt consit of a monk, and I argued that it was a run and I didnt expect anyone to be stupid enough to run into a mob (using their point of no monk against them). This went of for a while during the run, which them complaining. The runner eventually finished his thing and I payed him (given I want dead), but he was going to leave seeing as the others couldn't pay (guess he had Team Chat off). Eventually they came to a decision that they would pay back in Augury Rock, I'm not sure if they did leaving the group immediately before they complained more. I think given that my secondary was Monk they expected me to carry a res skill, but I rarely use secondary skills...
So am I a noob for not taking a res in PvE? Rarely ever taken a res, and I dont really see the need to. Thoughts?
Ohh the joys of P.U.G.
Ressurection in PvE
Khazad Guard
Darkobra
You should always bring a res. And they should never have run off in the first place ESPECIALLY during a run without a monk.
kaldak
Eh, its ususally considered nice to bring a res when playing with others. At least a res sig. I think the practice has decreased with the addition of heroes (just give the heroes a res). All that said, you paid for a run and shouldnt have been expected to bring ANY skill.
Kook~NBK~
So the Wammo's (talking about mentality here, not secondary) decided to go forging off to battle without any back-up? To heck with them! You were under the understanding that it was a run, there would be no fighting, and there wasn't a Monk in the bunch to heal them, let alone rez 'em! You were under no obligation to save these knotheads from their own stupidity.
But in normal situations, I'm all for people bringing a rez to help out the party.
But in normal situations, I'm all for people bringing a rez to help out the party.
DRGN
I guess you shouldn't have had to carry a res since it was run. However, it's good for you to carry a res regularly. All classes should, except Monks, provided you tell your team that first. You actually have an advantage as a Me/Mo since you can use FC Res Chant or something.
gremlin
My personal view
Every member of a party should have a res ability signet or preferably a hard res skill.
Also every party member should have some form of healing.
I cannot count the number of times the entire party was wiped appart from 1 who ran for it then returned and resurrected the entire party.
Fights do go wrong and if they do you need to find a way to continue without restarting.
Every member of a party should have a res ability signet or preferably a hard res skill.
Also every party member should have some form of healing.
I cannot count the number of times the entire party was wiped appart from 1 who ran for it then returned and resurrected the entire party.
Fights do go wrong and if they do you need to find a way to continue without restarting.
strcpy
A rez during a run? No, it should be OK to bring an empty skill bar and no weapons/armor - you are paying someone else for a service and there is no contract between the other members of the group. The only person that it matters on in the runner and they need whatever the bar is to complete the run and I doubt that is a rez. What they heck would they have done if you had been a level 2?
A rez in normal PvE - yep, very much. If your group is OK with it then whatever - I'm not about to contradict what your team wants to do however bad an idea I think it is. However, a rez signet or sunspear rebirth signet should be standard. Now, a *hard rez* is another story and will depend on who you team wants to carry that (usually your monk, but not always).
A rez in normal PvE - yep, very much. If your group is OK with it then whatever - I'm not about to contradict what your team wants to do however bad an idea I think it is. However, a rez signet or sunspear rebirth signet should be standard. Now, a *hard rez* is another story and will depend on who you team wants to carry that (usually your monk, but not always).
HawkofStorms
Eh, depends. A lot of places (explorables) don't really need a res (oh no, party wipe with 15% DP. Guess we will just have to work it off). Missions on the otherhand...
Vickie
Like what most people said, it's a run, you shouldn't be expected to bring anything. They shouldn't have died because they were bored in the first place.
But you're a Mesmer? Wouldn't a Monk rez be awesome on you since you have Fast Casting? I usually don't let my Monk heroes bring rez, since their skill bars are already packed as it is...
But you're a Mesmer? Wouldn't a Monk rez be awesome on you since you have Fast Casting? I usually don't let my Monk heroes bring rez, since their skill bars are already packed as it is...
Spike
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gremlin
My personal view
Every member of a party should have a res ability signet or preferably a hard res skill. Also every party member should have some form of healing. I cannot count the number of times the entire party was wiped appart from 1 who ran for it then returned and resurrected the entire party. Fights do go wrong and if they do you need to find a way to continue without restarting. |
MercenaryK
I personally am not so zealous about every party member bringing a rez signet. That's 8 skill slots in the entire party dedicated to resurrecting, or 7, if there's a monk as it's easier for the monk if other people rez. To me that's too much resurrection, IF you're in a PuG or guild-group that has a good knowledge of what to expect and what build to use.
But like an above poster said, explorable areas a wipe isn't a big deal (15% DP). But in a mission, where if there's a wipe you start over, it's good for a few, not all, party members to bring a rez, preferably not a rez sig. Chances are if you're wiping out you won't get a moral boost in time for your next wipe.
But towards your scenario, nah, they were the noobs running off during a run. I'd have put them on the ignore list and leave it at that. Runs are where you pay for the easy street way.
But like an above poster said, explorable areas a wipe isn't a big deal (15% DP). But in a mission, where if there's a wipe you start over, it's good for a few, not all, party members to bring a rez, preferably not a rez sig. Chances are if you're wiping out you won't get a moral boost in time for your next wipe.
But towards your scenario, nah, they were the noobs running off during a run. I'd have put them on the ignore list and leave it at that. Runs are where you pay for the easy street way.
Khazad Guard
Thanks guys for that. I told them "I'm not paying 1k to rescue some fools that go off all guns blazing" and they snapped back at me saying I wasnt the runner so it didnt matter...
I sometimes do take a res when I think I will need it (ie Ring of Fire), but when I play with my heroes they do all the ressing
I guess I kind of have that set into my head.
Anyway thanks again for opinions.
I sometimes do take a res when I think I will need it (ie Ring of Fire), but when I play with my heroes they do all the ressing
I guess I kind of have that set into my head.Anyway thanks again for opinions.
Marty Silverblade
When going somewhere in a taxi (in real life), is it your responsibility to have your foot on the brake while the taxi driver drives and controls everything else? Nope. You're paying him to do the job and if your helping in some way, you don't pay a thing, and if your part was significant, you should get a fair share of the pay.
As to rez in PvE, I only think they're necessary when I PUG, which is never. My heroes and I never have them, because PvE is easy enough to get away with the 4 sigs from the henchies. Really, once you get somewhat decent at PvE, you won't get much use of the rez sig, so you may as well replace it.
As to rez in PvE, I only think they're necessary when I PUG, which is never. My heroes and I never have them, because PvE is easy enough to get away with the 4 sigs from the henchies. Really, once you get somewhat decent at PvE, you won't get much use of the rez sig, so you may as well replace it.
Avarre
Not everyone needs a res in PvE, but unless your group is organized and can sort out who is bringing one, it's a good idea to have a res skill of some sort on your bar. 1-2 hard res and a few sigs is usually enough though.
An exception is monks who should not be ressing.
An exception is monks who should not be ressing.
iridescentfyre
If you are getting a run through a mission and you are not expected to fight, you are under absolutely no responsibility to bring a res.
If you are fighting through a mission normally, bring a res skill as there is no other option for a dead comrade. Which one you bring is a very good question, my recommendation is Sunspear Rebirth Signet. The only "hard" res I'd ever condone carrying (especially on a Mesmer) is Resurrection Chant, Death Pact Signet, or perhaps Flesh of my Flesh. Resurrect is a joke of a skill and Rebirth's usefulness is only realized when your team is horrible and you'd be better off restarting with heroes and henches.
If you are fighting through a mission normally, bring a res skill as there is no other option for a dead comrade. Which one you bring is a very good question, my recommendation is Sunspear Rebirth Signet. The only "hard" res I'd ever condone carrying (especially on a Mesmer) is Resurrection Chant, Death Pact Signet, or perhaps Flesh of my Flesh. Resurrect is a joke of a skill and Rebirth's usefulness is only realized when your team is horrible and you'd be better off restarting with heroes and henches.
Holly Herro
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gremlin
My personal view
Every member of a party should have a res ability signet or preferably a hard res skill. Also every party member should have some form of healing. I cannot count the number of times the entire party was wiped appart from 1 who ran for it then returned and resurrected the entire party. Fights do go wrong and if they do you need to find a way to continue without restarting. |
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$neekie
Really depends on the situation, wich objective,how the pug is formed,ect. I dont always bring a res, mostly not actually. Surtenly not wenn theres 2 monks and more peope with monk as second,then its a waste of a skill for me.
mzzls
mzzls
Whirlwind
Not your fault at all. You were paying someone to run the mission for you. The guys who ran off and died caused the entire issue, a rez would not of even been thought of if they hadn't been retarded enough to cause that in the first place.
strcpy
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Originally Posted by Khazad Guard
I sometimes do take a res when I think I will need it (ie Ring of Fire), but when I play with my heroes they do all the ressing
I guess I kind of have that set into my head. |
I can understand a PUG or even a guild group wanting you to take one, I can't understand you balking at a guild group asking it nor can I see why you would care what we think of you hench/hero group as long as you are happy with it (if you are asking for improvements that is another issue, and again many of mine are very much non-optimal in "effective" due to me finding them fun), nor can I see why anyone cares in you case what skills anyone other than the runner brings.
Heck, most runs I've been a party too would map out and start the run over again for people doing that. I've even known a few that offered them free because of similar things (I still payed as it wasn't their fault - I find it similar to restaurants offering free food for mistakes, it is doing the right thing that counts more than getting the free stuff).
Whirlwind
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Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade
When going somewhere in a taxi (in real life), is it your responsibility to have your foot on the brake while the taxi driver drives and controls everything else? Nope. You're paying him to do the job
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CHunterX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khazad Guard
my secondary was Monk
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EXCEPT, this was a run. No one except the Runner is expected to bring anything. If they want to dick around and die, thats their problem, not yours. In my opinion, its not your problem you didn't bring a res spell. Its their problem for dying.
You were "in the clear" if thats what you want to hear.
Khazad Guard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Avarre
An exception is monks who should not be ressing.
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Crom The Pale
I have to say I find res skills belong on certain proffs.
Wars should not bring a res as they are supposed to be holding agro and are most likely to die first.
Rangers, Paragons should bring a hard res or signet since they are most likely to survive and be the last man standing more often than not.
Monks should always bring a hard res, its a monk skill for crying out loud, but they should not be ressing the the heat of battle unless they have a second monk backing them up and only 1-2 allies are down.
Eles, Necros, Mesmers, Dervish, Sins and Rits should only bring one if the party is lacking a Ranger or Pargon with a res skill or if they happen to have room in thier build for a res skill.
Despite Mesmers having fastcasting they really should not try to res in the middle of a battle as that would leave them open to a quick death and likely bring back a party member with too little hp to survive.
Understanding your role in the party and your personal play style should dictate what skills you bring including res skills.
Wars should not bring a res as they are supposed to be holding agro and are most likely to die first.
Rangers, Paragons should bring a hard res or signet since they are most likely to survive and be the last man standing more often than not.
Monks should always bring a hard res, its a monk skill for crying out loud, but they should not be ressing the the heat of battle unless they have a second monk backing them up and only 1-2 allies are down.
Eles, Necros, Mesmers, Dervish, Sins and Rits should only bring one if the party is lacking a Ranger or Pargon with a res skill or if they happen to have room in thier build for a res skill.
Despite Mesmers having fastcasting they really should not try to res in the middle of a battle as that would leave them open to a quick death and likely bring back a party member with too little hp to survive.
Understanding your role in the party and your personal play style should dictate what skills you bring including res skills.
Targuil
I never bring rez in pve. In normal mode, no one almost never dies and in hard, if someone dies first it's usually me or whole team. I don't waste a good space in my skill bar for rez that someone else can do better. And i was talking about H/H... pugging ftl.
Loviatar
[QUOTE]
yes
you are getting a run and not expected to do a thing but not having a hard rez as a monk secondary along in case something happens for a party wipe near the end is stupid as you have wasted that time even if you dont pay.
what does it cost you to toss it on your bar just in case?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khazad Guard
So am I a noob for not taking a res in PvE?
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you are getting a run and not expected to do a thing but not having a hard rez as a monk secondary along in case something happens for a party wipe near the end is stupid as you have wasted that time even if you dont pay.
what does it cost you to toss it on your bar just in case?
thedeadlyassassin
I'd say bring a res all the time, especially during a mission. It sucks losing a mission when you could res a monk in a mission that has renew life or something like that. A sig can go a long ways.
in this case, they were complete idiots for running off if getting a run. But you should always bring a rez when doing missions.
in this case, they were complete idiots for running off if getting a run. But you should always bring a rez when doing missions.
TGgold
This really all depends.
Normally, I try to organize the PuGs and see what I have available. Who should/could bring a res and whatnot.
If it is a quest, I will never bring a res. At no point in a quest on normal mode should I die. If there for some reason is a party wipe, then there are res shrines everywhere for a reason. If half of a team has some for of res, then that's fine. I usually give a hero or two a res if I think I'll need one. Most people agree, quests mean no res.
If it is a MISSION, then I like to see if I should bring a res, or if there is any other single skill that could be more useful to the group. If there is a more suitable character to res, then that character should bring a res skill. Sometimes there are times when no res is JUST FINE, normally only being in an organized group though. (If you can take the mob down, or prevent them from killing people with a skill, that's better than letting them die in the first place, no?)
Really, it is up to the organization and skill of the team that determines how many and what people should have a res on their bar. An Me/Rt with FomF or Death Pact Signet is probably one of the better ressers in normal mode PvE.
In PvP, I assume all character that can afford a skill slot will bring a res that is appropriate for their role. It's that simple.
Normally, I try to organize the PuGs and see what I have available. Who should/could bring a res and whatnot.
If it is a quest, I will never bring a res. At no point in a quest on normal mode should I die. If there for some reason is a party wipe, then there are res shrines everywhere for a reason. If half of a team has some for of res, then that's fine. I usually give a hero or two a res if I think I'll need one. Most people agree, quests mean no res.
If it is a MISSION, then I like to see if I should bring a res, or if there is any other single skill that could be more useful to the group. If there is a more suitable character to res, then that character should bring a res skill. Sometimes there are times when no res is JUST FINE, normally only being in an organized group though. (If you can take the mob down, or prevent them from killing people with a skill, that's better than letting them die in the first place, no?)
Really, it is up to the organization and skill of the team that determines how many and what people should have a res on their bar. An Me/Rt with FomF or Death Pact Signet is probably one of the better ressers in normal mode PvE.
In PvP, I assume all character that can afford a skill slot will bring a res that is appropriate for their role. It's that simple.
Div
Rez is generally nice to have for PvE, but if I'm getting run, I don't bother taking anything.
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Khazad Guard
Is it unwise to bring ressurection skills with monks? I thought it was standard practice for monks to bring a hard res (and use after battle)
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It can be good for pugging, but of all the places to fit a hard res, the monk bar is probably the worst.
Drakken Breathes Fire
I always carry a res incase my monk hero goes down.
Yang Whirlwind
I have stopped bringing a rez signet with my ele most of the time - can't be monk 2.nd as I need mesmer instead (for most builds). For most missions/quests/etc. there's not enough bosses that can recharge it for it to be worth the slot.
If I hire someone to do a job (that doesn't involve me participating) I don't even bother setting up my skill bar. Nobody can expect me to come help them because they are hyperactive teenagers that can't sit still for 15 min. while the runner does his thing.
They were the noobs for not staying put - not you! But I guess its always easier to blame someone else when you do something stupid!
If I hire someone to do a job (that doesn't involve me participating) I don't even bother setting up my skill bar. Nobody can expect me to come help them because they are hyperactive teenagers that can't sit still for 15 min. while the runner does his thing.
They were the noobs for not staying put - not you! But I guess its always easier to blame someone else when you do something stupid!
quickmonty
You are paying for a run. You are not expected to do anything expect pay, and not do anything to screw up the runner. You have no obligation to anyone else who is along for the ride. I would say that they are noobs for running off and getting killed.
the_jos
My opinion:
When not getting a run and playing missions, bring a res when playing PUG.
Even monks sh/could take a res.
In organized teams, like guild teams, we run less res skills, most likely a combination of multi- and onetime res.
Saying the bar is too full for a res means you think the skill is more important than the 7 on the death player.
I find that hard to believe.
The only exception on this could be the healer, who's job is to keep people alive and not ressing them.
When not getting a run and playing missions, bring a res when playing PUG.
Even monks sh/could take a res.
In organized teams, like guild teams, we run less res skills, most likely a combination of multi- and onetime res.
Saying the bar is too full for a res means you think the skill is more important than the 7 on the death player.
I find that hard to believe.
The only exception on this could be the healer, who's job is to keep people alive and not ressing them.
pkodyssey
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gremlin
My personal view
Every member of a party should have a res ability signet or preferably a hard res skill. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gremlin
My personal view
Also every party member should have some form of healing. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Khazad Guard
Is it unwise to bring ressurection skills with monks? I thought it was standard practice for monks to bring a hard res (and use after battle)
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A build completely sucks if it doesn't allow room for a rez. It doesn't matter how uber you think you are. If you don't bring a rez it INSTANTLY demotes you to the rank of Noob!
SharonC
I used to always carry a rez, even though I rarely had to use it. I rarely carry one any more though, due to GW:EN. I now carry 2-3 resurrection scrolls in my inventory in case of need. Yes, they are rather expensive to have crafted, but it does give me an extra skill slot for other things, and helps a lot when I don't have a monk secondary/primary.
Now, the only time I carry a rez skill is during a vanquish, when I know most of us will die at least once, and that I will need to rez either after battle, or after the enemy has wandered out of aggro.
Now, the only time I carry a rez skill is during a vanquish, when I know most of us will die at least once, and that I will need to rez either after battle, or after the enemy has wandered out of aggro.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by pkodyssey
A build completely sucks if it doesn't allow room for a rez. It doesn't matter how uber you think you are. If you don't bring a rez it INSTANTLY demotes you to the rank of Noob! |
iridescentfyre
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Originally Posted by Khazad Guard
Is it unwise to bring ressurection skills with monks? I thought it was standard practice for monks to bring a hard res (and use after battle)
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However in my opinion, monks are a good choice for a hard res, because I use Resurrection Chant which benefits from Healing Prayers. Protection monks are a harder option since Rebirth blows, though Res Chant still gives 100% health to the "ressee" with 0 Healing Prayers.
I guess my point is that you shouldn't bring a res as a Monk solely because you're the monk. Monks don't have much that makes them "better ressers," I think its just the mindset of Guild Wars players that Monks have to have a res because they're the archetypal "healers." Mesmers with Fast Casting are much more logical options to carry res spells.
Quaker
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Originally Posted by Khazad Guard
So am I a noob for not taking a res in PvE? Rarely ever taken a res, and I dont really see the need to. Thoughts?
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First of all, I'm surprised that the runner (apparently) didn't have a rez for just such a occurrence, so he can get paid. Guess he was a noob too.
Secondly, I've only ever been "run" somewhere twice myself. Both times were to run a character, from another campaign, from Beacon's Perch to Drok's to get to the Furnace. While doing the runs, I purposely got myself killed so I could watch the runner do his thing while I was dead. I didn't expect, or want, anyone to rez me.
Those other guys were being noob-ish to expect that someone would rez them. You were being "run" ffs, people in the party could have no skills equipped at all.
On the subject of carrying a rez: I think it's probably best, over all, to carry a rez, unless your build really doesn't have room for it. But, keep in mind that the rez is actually for your benefit, not the benefit of the others, or the team. Here's why:
When you are doing a mission, if everyone dies the mission is over. If everyone dies except you, (or 1 or 2 others without rez either), it's not likely you can finish the mission, so it is to your benefit to be able to rez at least one other, so you don't fail the mission.
If you are only questing, and everyone dies except you, you could simply die (get killed) and the party will spawn at the nearest shrine. Everyone, including you, will have a(nother) 15% death penalty. But, if you had a rez, you could rez the rest of the party (who will still get the 15% DP), without getting the DP yourself.
Also, of course, depending upon what class you are playing and your role in the party, it can be to your benefit to be able to rez a monk if they should die during a battle. This helps to keep you and the party going.
So basically, it's up to you if you want to keep the mission alive or save yourself DP. (There's also, of course, the case where everyone gets 60% DP in hard mode and the party wipes back to the outpost)
iridescentfyre
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Originally Posted by pkodyssey
If you don't bring a rez it INSTANTLY demotes you to the rank of Noob!
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Quaker
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Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
I guess my point is that you shouldn't bring a res as a Monk solely because you're the monk. Monks don't have much that makes them "better ressers," I think its just the mindset of Guild Wars players that Monks have to have a res because they're the archetypal "healers." Mesmers with Fast Casting are much more logical options to carry res spells.
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Many people think you should only rez after a battle. (I'm not suggesting you are one of them.) But I would disagree with that. First of all, it depends upon how well the battle is going and how much damage the party is taking. But I would, as a general rule, say that Monks should not rez during battle in order to concentrate on healing/protecting. Also, obviously, melee fighters and tanks shouldn't rez during a battle. But, Rangers and casters, being, usually, outside of melee range, can rez. The benefits of having a full un-dead team, especially if it's a monk that's dead, can usually outweigh any brief interruption in damage output. A rez signet is usually best for this (Sunspear Rebirth Signet best of all) for the speed, and Mesmer's are even better because of Fast Casting.