Ok, my A/Me friend was using [card]Shadow Form[/card] and [card]Arcane Echo[/card] to CR/Farm FoW and he kept up Shadow Form 100% of the time with no problems. If it can be done there can't it also be done in PvP and almost every other areas that Non-Spell Strip Enchants are rarely or not at all found to be basically invincible with VERY minor worries of Shadow Form being stripped?
I don't have Factions so I can't really test my theory myself xD
Edit: Meant arcane echo xD
Shadow Form, Overpowered? =\
Nature Loves Me
Diddy bow
2 elites are overpowerd yes.
quickmonty
Can't be done. They are both elites.
Nature Loves Me
I keep mis typing, I meant ARCANE ECHO NOT ECHO, sorry lol...I'm havign a rought night
Diddy bow
Ok with Arcane echo it used to be able to be kept up indefinetly with the use of deadly paradox, its not possible anymore, apparently it can be done with extreme timing but im not sure. And it made you "invincible" untill you met AOE, encahnment removal that geos through spells, traps ect. But it was very unweildy, you needed 16 shadow arts, forced as A/Me ,a ton of ernergy and it was easy to screw up so it wasnt really so bad. You can do the same with a 55 monk or an earth ele ect. No diffrent really.
Nature Loves Me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Diddy bow
Ok with Arcane echo it used to be able to be kept up indefinetly with the use of deadly paradox, its not possible anymore, apparently it can be done with extreme timing but im not sure. And it made you "invincible" untill you met AOE, encahnment removal that geos through spells, traps ect. But it was very unweildy, you needed 16 shadow arts, forced as A/Me ,a ton of ernergy and it was easy to screw up so it wasnt really so bad. You can do the same with a 55 monk or an earth ele ect. No diffrent really.
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Also don't have to worry about HP degen, unless traps and stuff like that, but they are easily avoidable.
Wut Wut
it's extremely easy to keep it up indefinitely, and it hasn't changed since the nerf, I tested it at the isle of the nameless, and stayed in it for 10 minutes until I had to go to dinner.
Toutatis
It's easy to keep up virtually indefinitely, but it's just as easy to strip and shut down. Signet of Disenchantment and Signet of Humility would really put a dent in an echoed Shadow Form build.
Nature Loves Me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toutatis
It's easy to keep up virtually indefinitely, but it's just as easy to strip and shut down. Signet of Disenchantment and Signet of Humility would really put a dent in an echoed Shadow Form build.
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ax mastery
afaik rend touch strips shadow form. It isn't really used in pvp because its a rather useless build unless you just want to annoy people for ten minutes in ra.
RPGmaniac
There's always expunge enchantments. some mobs in the jade sea use it pretty often.
Neo Nugget
Moving to the assassin proffession forum 
better there than here i guess.
better there than here i guess.
ensoriki
Not overpowered, its synergy.
You could say the combo of skills is overpowered, then people can disagree
on its own hell no, lose almost all your hp (a dervish critical hit can 1hko you...or a warrior hammer hit) doesn't last to long either.
Also it can still be kept up indefinitely so i've heard even after DP nerf.
However theres only about a 0,2-1 second chance. if you mess up that 1 second, the permanent shadow form goes down.
Theres tons of ways to deal with shadowform, however people don't take them because it's not part of the COOKIE CUTTER....however a viable build can be made that just had non spell enchantment while still working.
Imagine that!
0.2-1 second!!!! Jesus Rice
You could say the combo of skills is overpowered, then people can disagree
on its own hell no, lose almost all your hp (a dervish critical hit can 1hko you...or a warrior hammer hit) doesn't last to long either.
Also it can still be kept up indefinitely so i've heard even after DP nerf.
However theres only about a 0,2-1 second chance. if you mess up that 1 second, the permanent shadow form goes down.
Theres tons of ways to deal with shadowform, however people don't take them because it's not part of the COOKIE CUTTER....however a viable build can be made that just had non spell enchantment while still working.
Imagine that!
0.2-1 second!!!! Jesus Rice
Nature Loves Me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
Not overpowered, its synergy.
You could say the combo of skills is overpowered, then people can disagree on its own hell no, lose almost all your hp (a dervish critical hit can 1hko you...or a warrior hammer hit) doesn't last to long either. Also it can still be kept up indefinitely so i've heard even after DP nerf. However theres only about a 0,2-1 second chance. if you mess up that 1 second, the permanent shadow form goes down. Theres tons of ways to deal with shadowform, however people don't take them because it's not part of the COOKIE CUTTER....however a viable build can be made that just had non spell enchantment while still working. Imagine that! 0.2-1 second!!!! Jesus Rice |
Sqube
Skills that can hurt you:
- Signets
- Touch skills
- Untargeted AoE skills
Also, you have to note how perma-SF limits you. You have to go /Me. You have to use Shadow Form, Arcane Echo, Deadly Paradox, and a 20% enchant mod on your daggers. So three of your skills can't be changed and require a close watch to make sure that you don't go wrong.
So no, it's not overpowered at all. It requires a lot of work to keep it maintained; the fact that you can keep it up 100% of the time doesn't mean that it's easy to do so.
- Signets
- Touch skills
- Untargeted AoE skills
Also, you have to note how perma-SF limits you. You have to go /Me. You have to use Shadow Form, Arcane Echo, Deadly Paradox, and a 20% enchant mod on your daggers. So three of your skills can't be changed and require a close watch to make sure that you don't go wrong.
So no, it's not overpowered at all. It requires a lot of work to keep it maintained; the fact that you can keep it up 100% of the time doesn't mean that it's easy to do so.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ax mastery
afaik rend touch strips shadow form. It isn't really used in pvp because its a rather useless build unless you just want to annoy people for ten minutes in ra.
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Sir Pandra Pierva
Does anyone still have the infanite shadowform combo? I used a team one for a while with an ele using GoR nuking.
Sqube
Shadow Form
Arcane Echo
Deadly Paradox
Totem Axe or something equivalent
That's the basic setup for perma-SF. Five other slots for attacks, maybe self-heals and/or a rez.
GPS --> HotO --> FS --> TF --> [optional] maybe? I don't know, something along those lines could work. No IAS available, but that's life when you're running perma-SF.
Arcane Echo
Deadly Paradox
Totem Axe or something equivalent
That's the basic setup for perma-SF. Five other slots for attacks, maybe self-heals and/or a rez.
GPS --> HotO --> FS --> TF --> [optional] maybe? I don't know, something along those lines could work. No IAS available, but that's life when you're running perma-SF.
Lourens
a touch ranger can go right trough shadow form and all 'skills can also go trough it 
=DNC=Trucker
From what I know, your timing does have to be within 1.5-2 seconds. Besides, its so fragile I would love for this to become a gimmick like it used to before the DP nerf. People in PVP will bring one non-spell ench removal and turn the table from a perma-invicible sin to a perma-corpse. So, I'd have to say not really.
Sir Pandra Pierva
still it's fun to piss people off
plus I wannt use it in PVE for something
plus I wannt use it in PVE for something
Sqube
Sir Pandra, you can use the build anywhere where bad guys doesn't have:
- Well of the Profane
- Signet of Disenchantment
- Expunge Enchantments
- Lift Enchantment (conditional)
- Well of the Profane
- Signet of Disenchantment
- Expunge Enchantments
- Lift Enchantment (conditional)
Sun Fired Blank
It's kind of a pain in the ass in RA. Even in TA, people don't usually bring a means to defeat SF, but at least there, you're pretty much guarenteed the redundancy necessary to beat it. In RA, you can autolose if you don't have a healer or one of the handful of solutions that beats it. The reality, though, is that SF is broken because Deadly Paradox affects it. Which is because Deadly Paradox is a dumb skill, and I wish it would die.
Shadow Kurd
What is the build to keep it up indefinitely,
There is a 1 second gap when using Arcane Echo,Deadly Paradox + 20% Enchantment.
--> http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Image:Evershadow.png
There is a 1 second gap when using Arcane Echo,Deadly Paradox + 20% Enchantment.
--> http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Image:Evershadow.png
Chicken Ftw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank
Deadly Paradox is a dumb skill, and I wish it would die.
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ensoriki
Deadly Paradox doesnt need to die >.>
IF you completely change it!!
Deadly Paradox could be like 1 of the many girls at my school >.>
Changes because no 1 likes it
and then 6 months later Emo cuts itself.
A-net: Umm new skill balance
Assassin
Deadly paradox: Shroud of Silence doesn't disable your spells anymore.
Attacking Disables your spells.
(HOLY SHIT
Shadow Refuge: Heal 80 hp, for 6 seconds you have +7 regen,..if your attacking you gain 80 hp.
Paragon: Now wears Pants
*runs*
IF you completely change it!!
Deadly Paradox could be like 1 of the many girls at my school >.>
Changes because no 1 likes it
and then 6 months later Emo cuts itself.
A-net: Umm new skill balance
Assassin
Deadly paradox: Shroud of Silence doesn't disable your spells anymore.
Attacking Disables your spells.
(HOLY SHIT
Shadow Refuge: Heal 80 hp, for 6 seconds you have +7 regen,..if your attacking you gain 80 hp.
Paragon: Now wears Pants
*runs*
AuraofMana
What kind of PvP are you playing? If you are talking about RA or AB (or vs. an idiotic unorganized retarded PvP team), then yes, you have a chance of not getting your Shadow Form stripped. Even with Shadow Form in PvP, what then? You can't kill as well as other sins, and I can just avoid you. Even if you keep me attacked, any decent monk can keep me alive while I rape all your teammates because you aren't doing much. Just throw a shield bash or guardian and your sin combo is messed up. As for killing you, any strip that goes through Shadow Form or an interrupt in the face when Shadow Form is down means you are pretty much dead.
Master Sword Keeper
SF can be chewed through with Touch skills. Such as Headbutt(?) and Traps..
Stop whinging...
Stop whinging...
Sqube
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadow Kurd
What is the build to keep it up indefinitely,
There is a 1 second gap when using Arcane Echo,Deadly Paradox + 20% Enchantment. --> http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Image:Evershadow.png |
RhanoctJocosa
I'll always remember when EviL brought Expunge Enchantments on their sins to counter WM's SF sins. Good times.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sqube
Sir Pandra, you can use the build anywhere where bad guys doesn't have:
- Well of the Profane - Signet of Disenchantment - Expunge Enchantments - Lift Enchantment (conditional) |
Also there can't be way too many AOE non target skills.
Ministry Of Peace
It's possible to keep shadow form up indefinitely, I've seen it done as recently as a few weeks ago. It DOES take extreme timing, however. Even a little bit of lag, and it will be messed up...
Issac
This one person used this in RA. It was pretty lame because we didn't have any enchantment stripping skills :S. We were stuck their until he messed up lol.
Sir Pandra Pierva
I had one guy use it in RA and basicly kept the match up for an hour.....I kinda miss the old ways of playing those were fun, no time limit in maps good times
=DNC=Trucker
[skill]Winds of Disenchantment[/skill] Grenth's Aura [skill]Chilling Victory[/skill]
[skill]Signet of Disenchantment[/skill][skill]Signet of Humility[/skill][skill]Blackout[/skill][skill]Signet of Disruption[/skill] Signet of Distraction [skill]Leech Signet[/skill]
[skill]Expunge Enchantments[/skill]
[skill]Shock[/skill]
Grapple
[skill]Signet of Judgment[/skill]
Seems like a lot of options to me, to create 1 dead foe with 1 skill.
[skill]Signet of Disenchantment[/skill][skill]Signet of Humility[/skill][skill]Blackout[/skill][skill]Signet of Disruption[/skill] Signet of Distraction [skill]Leech Signet[/skill]
[skill]Expunge Enchantments[/skill]
[skill]Shock[/skill]
Grapple
[skill]Signet of Judgment[/skill]
Seems like a lot of options to me, to create 1 dead foe with 1 skill.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Lol SF is easy to beat without a doubt but still it can be fun.
yum
The Amos will eat all SF sins. End of story. 
BTW, just interupt the arcane echo and the sin is pretty much done. (cummun 2s cast and if that's not enuf for u, stop playing)
BTW, just interupt the arcane echo and the sin is pretty much done. (cummun 2s cast and if that's not enuf for u, stop playing)
Yanman.be
lol yum usually you cannot interrupt arcane echo because he's under sf, and when he isn't under sf, he'll make sure he's out of range.
yum
Amo amo amo. SF cant stop SOJ. Shock will do too. PLz don't list the counter that no1 would ever use.
Beside if it's his job to stay out of range, it's your job to prevent it. Try to use the radar and the map I think? Beside, I interupt those noob during the match while they are trying to score some kill, cant be out of range
Beside if it's his job to stay out of range, it's your job to prevent it. Try to use the radar and the map I think? Beside, I interupt those noob during the match while they are trying to score some kill, cant be out of range
Bobby2
How cute your wiki build includes a counter. More coincidence than planning if you ask me.