NCsoft sales rise due to GWEN, but income slips

Zinger314

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

Gamespot Article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Article, for you lazy people
Today, NCsoft announced its third-quarter results, and while sales were up 5 percent quarter over quarter to $88.3 million, its net income for the quarter fell 5 percent quarter over quarter to $11.1 million, down a substantial 21 percent year over year.

Supported heavily by its home base, 55 percent of NCsoft's sales occurred in Korea. Breaking down the remaining 45 percent, NCsoft accrued $15.1 million from North America, $9 million from Europe, $8.6 million in Japan, and $2.8 million in Taiwan. The publisher also received $4.8 million in royalty income.

NCsoft noted sales were up 81 percent in Europe, which it attributed to its biggest new release for the quarter, Guild Wars: Eye of the North. In all, total sales of ArenaNet's massively multiplayer online game Guild Wars were up 57 percent on the release of Eye of the North, garnering $14.4 million in sales. However, its Lineage franchise remained the primary breadwinner of the quarter, logging $26.2 million in revenue for the original game and $35.8 million for its successor, Lineage 2. City of Heroes and City of Villains combined for $6.3 million in sales.

NCsoft expects sales to continue to rise in the fourth quarter, riding the roll out of Richard Gariott's Tabula Rasa. Commenting on the company's performance and future outlook, NCsoft CFO JaeHo Lee said, "During the third quarter, sales in North America and Europe rose with the successful launch of the Guild Wars' expansion pack. We expect to see an increase in fourth quarter sales with the newly launched Richard Garriott's Tabula Rasa. Aion is in a closed beta testing process, and user responses are very positive."

Following its deal to develop games for the PlayStation 3 in July, NCsoft has undergone a significant Western expansion in recent months. After receiving a hefty grant from the British government, the publisher revealed it would be nearly doubling its operations in Brighton, England. In October, NCsoft officially unveiled Orange County, California-based Carbine Studios, which is at work on an unannounced game. Yesterday, the publisher announced it had acquired Cryptic Studios' stake in the City of Heroes and City of Villains franchises, and that it would continue development of the two games at its newly formed NorCal Studios in Mountain View, California.
$14.4 million made from GWEN divided by $40 per GWEN game equals atleast 360,000 players still playing Guild Wars (slightly more, due to discounts in GWEN's price). Quite interesting.

What I also find interesting is that Lineage I and II combined generated nearly four times the sales in that quarter than sales than Guild Wars.

Of course, if Tabula Rasa fails (the initial reports I've heard about it weren't great), then NCSoft, and consequently GW2, will be in a pickle.

EDIT: That's the last time I use the Windows Calculator for big number calculations.

Spazzer

Spazzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

USA

Team Asshat [Hat]

Mo/E

Well, to be fair, EOTN was more of a GW2 advertisement than an actual game. Getting paid to promote another game can't hurt all that much.

ヽ(??ー`)ノ

ヽ(??ー`)ノ

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

$14.4 million made from Guild Wars: Eye of the North divided by $40 per Eye of the North game would equal to 360,000. So it is true that at least 36,000 players still play Guild Wars.

crazybanshee

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Look out!

E/

Interesting.. I played Lineage 1 until I finally gave up and just concentrated on GW a few months ago. I love the game but hate the total lack of support the company gives it. I'd be curious how that breaks down even further, as I'm guessing most of the income must come from Korea since there's got to be less than 1000 people total playing Lineage on US servers anymore. (and most of them are bots now anyway)

Bo Azum

Bo Azum

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Mongoose United

Rt/

Not everyone bought Eye of the North, but still play. Conclusion fails.

Croco Clouds

Croco Clouds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

Montreal, QC, Canada

Divine Illumination [LaZy]

E/A

but still 40$ still hurt my wallet since I am not currently playing GW:EN

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

Count me in as another "bought and isn't playing it". I went as far as Umbral's and lost interest. I'm back in Proph now, in fact, pulling a 1.5 year old monk along to Ascension.

BohemianKeith

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Yeah and how many of those sold EOTN packages are actually players and not mules for bot accounts, farmers, etc.

??Ripskin

??Ripskin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by BohemianKeith
Yeah and how many of those sold EOTN packages are actually players and not mules for bot accounts, farmers, etc.
Bot accounts for eotn?

You have to actually do something to get through that game, so I don't think so.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

I wonder if the changed US$ ratio is reflected in these figures.

Winterclaw

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

500K people or more would have bought GWEN if it was better.

Ulivious The Reaper

Ulivious The Reaper

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Shadowed Assassins

W/Mo

Allot of people are willing to buy the game and not play, both my brother and sister are that way, last Christmas they got prophecies and factions (respectively) then bought the other games them selves through money acquired through trivial tasks. And yet my brother has about 200 hours over 14 months and my sister ~25

So, it's just really hard to base the amount of people still playing on the amount of people whom bought the game, and also it's hard to base their success in the future on this. I personally will pay up to 120 dollars for GW2, can't wait ^^

Corwin_Andros

Corwin_Andros

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Florida

Wayward Wanderers

W/E

Also have to take note of the fact that NC Soft (with the exception of the online stores) doesn't sell directly to the public. They certainly aren't selling to the retailers at $40 a pop. Not sure what that amount is offhand either. Perhaps someone in the retail market could enlighten us on what they typically pay for the games they sell and we could get a better estimate of how many copies of GW:EN were sold.

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Azum
Not everyone bought Eye of the North, but still play. Conclusion fails.
The conclusion is accurate: it places a bottom limit on the number of people who've played the game since the release of EOTN (I'm willing to bet someone who buys EOTN has logged in to GW at least once since release).

I disagree with the conclusion that the Lineage franchise has four times the sales of GW in the quarter, however: since it's a subscription game, they may be coasting along on existing sales or just plain getting more per sale than EOTN returns. Certainly it's earning money, but at a rough guess I'd say the figures probably represent getting twice as much money from twice as money people rather than the same money from four times as many people .

Also, I concur with the suspicion Tabula Rasa is going to fail... and if it doesn't, it'll likely be succeeding at the expense of something else. The problem with NCSoft putting out so many MMORPGs - especially subscription MMORPGs - is not only that it's competing with the likes of WoW and LOTRO, it's competing with itself.

EDIT: Noticed grammatical error

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
The conclusion is accurate: it places a bottom limit on the number of people who've played the game since the release of EOTN (I'm willing to bet someone who buys EOTN has logged in to GW at least once since release).


Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
Also, I concur with the suspicion Tabula Rasa is going to fail... and if it does, it'll likely be succeeding at the expense of something else. The problem with NCSoft putting out so many MMORPGs - especially subscription MMORPGs - is not only that it's competing with the likes of WoW and LOTRO, it's competing with itself.
Yep.

1 2 t w e l v e

seut

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

GW is NCSoft's current star product beside some fat cash cows like Lineage. Although this star is sinking to become a financial bovine soon.
The total lack of mentioning the name Dungeon Runners speaks volumes about the financial success of that payment experiment (free basics, goodies for subscribers).
In other news: NCSoft just bought the IP for City of Heroes and will make some investments into it.
If Tabula Rasa will rise to be a new star, is yet to be seen. Of course it would be hard to swallow for NCSoft, if it won't be a success. But they are not betting everything on this one horse and their base of investments is diverse enough to survive.
At least this company is courageously enough to try new paths in the MMO genre even at the risk of failure (remember Auto Assault?). Though GW2 might be destined to be more of the "same old" concepts to become another secure cash cow to fund other experiments.

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Azum
Not everyone bought Eye of the North, but still play. Conclusion fails.
Agreed. I didn't buy EOTN and I still occassionally play, but, not as much as I used to. There's tons of new games being released this month that are more worthy of my time like "Hellgate London", plus I just got Galactic Civilization: Dark Avatar and then there's Call of Duty 4 and The Witcher (this game is awesome, it's what GW's should have been). I like advancing characters and gear. GW's has lost that portion of what I enjoy in these action oriented role playing games. It's become repetitive boredome.

Iuris

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

Trust me, Hellgate London is not worthy of your time...

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Personally I like Hellgate: London, but to each their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corwin_Andros
Also have to take note of the fact that NC Soft (with the exception of the online stores) doesn't sell directly to the public. They certainly aren't selling to the retailers at $40 a pop. Not sure what that amount is offhand either. Perhaps someone in the retail market could enlighten us on what they typically pay for the games they sell and we could get a better estimate of how many copies of GW:EN were sold.
Corwin is right here. They made 14.4 million off of Guild Wars this quarter, but it wasn't at $40 per. That is what the stores sell it at and the stores want to make money. Seeing as how some store (I think Best Buy) a while back was selling GW:EN for $30 I think it is safe to say that NCSoft sold guild wars to retailers for around $20-$25 dollars. For easy math, take $20, and double Zingers number of 360,000 people bought GW:EN to 720,000 people bought it.

EDIT: Some of that money could have come from sales of other GW games like the platinum addition or Factions/Nightfall. If you believe some of the posters on this website (and you really have no reason not to) they bought those games because of the publicity that GW:EN was getting and I'm sure there are many more like them.

-Loki-

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
What I also find interesting is that Lineage I and II combined generated nearly four times the sales in that quarter than sales than Guild Wars.
Because Koreans actually play them.

Unkillable Cat

Unkillable Cat

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

New Dragons

Mo/R

For those that asked about markups, not sure how much help this is, but for the majority of independant (none chain store) retail, the base markup is 120% of cost where a predetermined price isnt marked, it sounds steep, but it costs a lot to keep a shop open. I think the highest mark up I currently have is 241% but that is purely to prevent inverse snobbery (thats too cheap, there must be somthing wrong with it)

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
...
What I also find interesting is that Lineage I and II combined generated nearly four times the sales in that quarter than sales than Guild Wars...
lineage 2 is (supposedly) a nicer looking game and, despite its really bad reviews, that is why most people will rush out to buy it.

Its more recently released and they assume its better because of that and they want flashy looking graphics!

I expect alot of those people got the game home, installed it and realised "hm.... maybe ill go back to GWs where it actually has some fun content"!

Its like any new game! Look at that "crisis" thing on the PC. All the hype is based around its supposedly amazing, photo-realistic graphics. Thats all anyone talks about. The previews say it has a good storyline too and decent playability, but all the focus is on visuals.

The same goes for newer MMOs. People just rush out and buy what ever is the newest and looks the nicest.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

But why are so many still subscribed to it?

Interesting little article, nonetheless. 350k GW players? I imagined at least a little under a million. Wow.

Loviatar:

Quote:
Originally Posted by draxynnic
The conclusion is accurate: it places a bottom limit on the number of people who've played the game since the release of EOTN (I'm willing to bet someone who buys EOTN has logged in to GW at least once since release).

Hookecho

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Red States

The Runners Academy

W/Mo

And 2 days ago NCsoft completed its buyout of Cryptic's City of Heroes/Villians unit so they now control it in house, kept all but one of the founding dev team, and now get to rake in that subscription fee and not have to share it with Cryptic. Thats 150,000+ subscriptions at $15 a month....a nice steady income

I think NCsoft has little to worry over

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Interesting little article, nonetheless. 350k GW players? I imagined at least a little under a million. Wow.
people who bought GWEN

did you consider that possibly the majority of the player base did not get GWEN and possibly dont even have all regular chapters either?

just wow

cthulhu reborn

cthulhu reborn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

the Netherlands

W/Mo

Well, the calculation has a problem since the selling price at a game store for GWEN is not the amount the company gets so as far as revenue for the company we have to look at the price for which they sell the game to wholesalers rather than what the public pays.
Only the sales at the GW ingame store are direct to public sales.

Of course keep in mind that for a quarter of Lineage there are 3 months of charges to add up which will probably be more revenue for the company than the selling price of a copy of GWEN to the wholesalers who sell it to the retailers who then sell it to the public.

A. Noid

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/A

R/E

Annnnd some folks bought more than 1 copy.....so by the time you add up all the variables...1 sec here...

add the 1
carry the 6
divide by ...

ok, here it is...we still have no idea how many active players there are.

-ANoid

AznDoDo

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2007

Zinger really just read one article and basing his 'facts' around just that article. I believe L2 has been on a steady decline in subscription since C3 ( 1.5 years ago? ), though the subscription number has been stabilizing with the change in the expansion name to "Chaotic Throne". Lineage 1 is a major bot-fest now ( so is Lineage 2 IMO ), but of course for both titles I'm speaking on the behalf of the U.S server. Its much more popular and successful in Korea, and maybe Europe? I'm not sure.

In all, I'm not a person to "rag" on companies, its great to see game companies like NCSoft is still making good money and hopefully rebound from the recent troubles they've been going through. The Lineage and GW series are definately by far NCSoft's big weapons in term of income. CoH/CoV and the now dead Auto Assault, are much far behind those two series. So NCSoft isn't gonna drop a high profile game like GW2, cause Lineage 3 has been delayed and not expected to be released till like 2011, due to the engine source code leak. 2011 is a long time, and I believe the only announced titles till 2011 from NCSoft is GW2 and Aion.

ValaOfTheFens

ValaOfTheFens

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Warrior Nation[WN]

I expect sales of GWEN to pick up soon. Christmas is close and there will be some sales(I'll be buying it then). Last year I waited until December of buy NF for the same reason.

Hookecho

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Red States

The Runners Academy

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by AznDoDo
The Lineage and GW series are definately by far NCSoft's big weapons in term of income. CoH/CoV and the now dead Auto Assault, are much far behind those two series.
Last numbers I saw had the CoH/CoV numbers around 150K and increasing so....
thats $2.25 million in subscription fees alone a month.... So while L+L2 abd GW have higher game sales I think the added subscriptions for CoH/CoV will help a lot.

and I say this as a person who has 3 GW and 2 CoH/CoV accounts

YMMV

wolfwing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Yeah but does the figures for Lineage I and II count subsriptions for that time? Guildwars you just buy the games, those you pay per month.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Anyway you look at it, $14 million dollars, at least 350k + players = good thing for Anet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Of course, if Tabula Rasa fails (the initial reports I've heard about it weren't great), then NCSoft, and consequently GW2, will be in a pickle.
Not sure about that. If Tabula Rasa fails, that means that NCSoft will have to support GW2, as Guild Wars is their third biggest title (after Lineage 1 & 2).

It's also really not fair to combine Lineage 1 and 2 against Guild Wars... (2 products against 1)

Wait til GW2 comes out, then compare!

cosyfiep

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

wasnt it more expensive than $40 in euros? (or other non US currencies?).....

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by cosyfiep
wasnt it more expensive than $40 in euros? (or other non US currencies?).....
That makes the 81% sales increase is even more impressive!

Kashrlyyk

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

35 Euros = 51 Dollars today.

Buster

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

NCSoft releases too many mmo games and doesn't give a game a chance to develope into major success. Lineage,Lineage 2, COV,COH,Tabula Rasa,Dungeon Runners and not to mention AION coming out soon. So where does this leave GW2 room to get success ? It doesn't. Obviously they feel quantity is better than quality which will eventually hurt the success of Anet unfortunately.

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

It hurts other pay to play mmo's not guild wars. All of those pay to play mmos that they release though will be hurt because not enough people have the disposable income to pay 2,3,4 monthly fees to play 2,3,4 different mmos.

twicky_kid

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster
NCSoft releases too many mmo games and doesn't give a game a chance to develope into major success. Lineage,Lineage 2, COV,COH,Tabula Rasa,Dungeon Runners and not to mention AION coming out soon. So where does this leave GW2 room to get success ? It doesn't. Obviously they feel quantity is better than quality which will eventually hurt the success of Anet unfortunately.
As long as people are willing to keep feeding the slot machine it won't matter.

Anet cannot compete with WoW. They know this. Instead of making 1 solid product to compete they'll make multiple "new" products to give alternatives.

Players like WoW and are highly dedicated but are always searching for an alternative. Anet is exploiting this with their games. They don't need to produce anything ground breaking just different enough to peak people's interest so they'll buy.

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

and cheap enough the won't be forced to break their warcrack habit.

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkillable Cat
For those that asked about markups, not sure how much help this is, but for the majority of independant (none chain store) retail, the base markup is 120% of cost where a predetermined price isnt marked, it sounds steep, but it costs a lot to keep a shop open. I think the highest mark up I currently have is 241% but that is purely to prevent inverse snobbery (thats too cheap, there must be somthing wrong with it)
Even after you take off store markups, before you can count actual profit you have to consider the cost of making the boxes and the material in the boxes, advertising (although EOTN mostly seemed to have in-house advertising) and the costs of developing the game. I'm not sure if those revenue figures are actually profit figures, but if they are that would also be putting up the number of sales required for every thousand dollars of revenue.