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Deftones_Korn_Unloco

Deftones_Korn_Unloco

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

In a country, in a city, in a house.

Kirins of Holy Light

Mo/

09 Nov 2007 at 09:42 - 1
Hey =]

So I've played this profession for a while now, and it is definitely not one of my better professions to play. I really need guidance and advice with my ritualist and builds.
Even more so with the October 12th update that spirits now suffer from burning and -50 health, I just turn a blind eye to using spirits now because of that, as many of them die quite fast as it is, or as it was. Is the result of the update as bad as it sounds?
I wish I could make one of those intriguing builds that when looked at people go, "hey, that's pretty clever..." Of course, I lack the understanding of this profession to do so, hense why I'm posting a thread seeking help.

I have looked at other forum posts and stickeys that seem to offer some assistance with skills, builds and the like, but often these discussions are turned into mixed opinions that don't have a sense of direction, and often I find myself getting lost in what I'm reading and trying to understand. Also, some are out-dated and I doubt would be as effective as they were in todays game play (updates, new skills, nerfs etc...)

I do feel that the Ritualist is a good profession to play: it's fun, different, unique and bizarre, with the added bonus of an entertaining dance from the males and, a conspicuously distinctive dance from the females.

Thanks in advance =]

Qdq Swi

Qdq Swi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/

09 Nov 2007 at 10:11 - 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deftones_Korn_Unloco
Hey =]

So I've played this profession for a while now, and it is definitely not one of my better professions to play. I really need guidance and advice with my ritualist and builds.
Even more so with the October 12th update that spirits now suffer from burning and -50 health, I just turn a blind eye to using spirits now because of that, as many of them die quite fast as it is, or as it was. Is the result of the update as bad as it sounds?
I wish I could make one of those intriguing builds that when looked at people go, "hey, that's pretty clever..." Of course, I lack the understanding of this profession to do so, hense why I'm posting a thread seeking help.

I have looked at other forum posts and stickeys that seem to offer some assistance with skills, builds and the like, but often these discussions are turned into mixed opinions that don't have a sense of direction, and often I find myself getting lost in what I'm reading and trying to understand. Also, some are out-dated and I doubt would be as effective as they were in todays game play (updates, new skills, nerfs etc...)

I do feel that the Ritualist is a good profession to play: it's fun, different, unique and bizarre, with the added bonus of an entertaining dance from the males and, a conspicuously distinctive dance from the females.

Thanks in advance =] Umm.. right... Okay.. The nerf to spirits hasnt affected me much... But maybe that has something to do with the fact im not a spirit spammer... Defensive spirits i.e. Shelter are useless.... they block 2 hits and thats about it. Your probably just not Spreading out your spirits.. an AoE spell could completly whipe them out...

For PvE Just use something like this :

Offering Of Spirit
Spirit Rift
Gaze From Beyond
Essence Strike
Ancestors Rage
Splinter Weapon
Bloodsong
Mend Body and Soul/ Rez depending on wether you trust your healers.

I think the build is pretty self-explanitory... but anyway..just use spirit rift on huddled up foes... gaze for some pretty decent damage, essence for dmg and energy, splinter on a warrior/ tank wtv you wanna call it, bloodsong to use offering and gaze effectively... Dont switch vampirism for bloodsong.. cus its not you that needs the hp.. its ur spirit that does :P. Ancestors rage when stuff get too close.. Consider using Warmongers/ Whaling weapon depending on areas...

Think thats pretty much it... max out channeling with a sup rune if u like.. max out restoration and put excess points in spawning/ spear mastery... Why spear mastery? cus i like to use a caster spear and i think spawning is for the majority of time utterly useless :P. Just use full radiant... or ghostforge.. attunement with best vigor rune and optional super channeling rune. obviusyly.. use a +1 channeling mask/ hairpeice or wtv u wanna call it.

Hope this helped =).

frojack

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

09 Nov 2007 at 11:27 - 3
In truth the class isn't as flexible as you might be lead to believe. I love the class sure, and there is a hell of a a lot they can do, but I can't ignore the fact that they are fundamentally weaker than most classes simply because most of what they can do is at odds with the rest of the game. For example...

Splinter Weapon:
Sure I can dish out more aoe damage than anyone else, even beating silly ele 'omg haxxored!11' nukers (pre lazy Izzy update. Fix VoD ffs...). Problem is I need an IAS'ed warrior, derv, or perhaps paragon to dish it out. It's a symbiotic relationship and without a host, the rit dies. No other 'good' nuke functions like this (except Balthazar's Aura on occasion).
This goes against the 'nature' of the game in that the current culture (in high-end pve, read as bull-dozer zones) it's more common to use a warrior, the most efficient killing force in the game, as a tank.
So your warrior/derv isn't doing anything other than using Signet of Stamina, enchantments or Obsidian Flesh every now and then. Hench the rit organism dies or at least doesn't function productively in your typical holy trinity. Recently cleared FoW using a balanced build on the rit. You wouldn't believe how hard it was to find warriors who just wanted to hit stuff. Mind boggling...

Spirits:
Mostly shit these days. They are fundamentally flawed on so many levels. What spirit rit, could ever split effectively in GvG even if they weren't nerfed into the afterlife? What Spirit rit is not going to slow down the entire team in pve for marginal profit?
There are an alarmingly small number of spirits that are any good at all. Most of those are basic attack spirits. I say this mainly because they 'can' function well in bull dozer zones since the damage is armour ignoring and fairly consistent. Still doesn't come close to justifying their sorry existence.

Healing Rits as opposed to Monks:
Yeah whatever...

Using the skills outside the Rit:
While this is championed as the crowning glory of the rit (well... After Splinter/Ancestors), it's just an arbitrary result of Spawning Power being shit. This isn't even down to it's inherent effect being shit (oh it is, wildly so), but mostly because the skills in the line are also really really shit. Whats even more perplexing is that a lot of them are also enchantments, when the rit is supposed to be this obscure class that can function well without needing them.
Ok they get to use skills from other professions... So what? They usually end up using the tools the primary won't touch because they have better tools somewhere a rit can't reach/use well (LoD, Defensive Anthem, etc.) or simply have more important jobs.
No paragon is ever going to use Song of Restoration extensively. They have 'much' better things to do. Just like most monks won't touch most of the stuff in smite for much the same reason. Expel Hexes? Mesmers have better things to do. Melee Ward? Tell the retarded ele to stop putting 13 in E Storage and grab a clue. Sure it makes playing rit more fun, but it's not wildly useful.


So yeah, I still very much love rits, but I am under no pretense that they are not retarded on so many levels. A lot of what they are good at is simply to obscure for the rest of the game to really benefit from. Even when strong stuff like Splinter(pre lazy Izzy/Anet) and Ancestor's exists, some retard in pve won't clock and that rit will be left out.

So wild tangent aside, your not wrong when you say "...it is definitely not one of my better professions to play" since it's that way for a lot of people, experienced or not.
You say you've looked around and have not seen many solid base-line rit builds (pvx is shit btw): Have you ever heard of the Fermi Paradox? It's essentially the contradiction between the high probability of alien beings existing in such a vast universe, and the extreme lack of evidence supporting it.
Well there are a lot rits out there who play and enjoy the class. Thus you could assume there were solid builds out there, however there aren't many recorded builds that support this theory when you compare the class to say warrior or elementalist.

Well yeah there aren't any. The closest you'll get is this:

[skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill] Whatever x 5 [Some kinda' res]

Fill in the gaps however way you want, but just be prepared for it to not be that good...

Qdq Swi

Qdq Swi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/

09 Nov 2007 at 11:43 - 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
In truth the class isn't as flexible as you might be lead to believe. I love the class sure, and there is a hell of a a lot they can do, but I can't ignore the fact that they are fundamentally weaker than most classes simply because most of what they can do is at odds with the rest of the game. For example...

Splinter Weapon:
Sure I can dish out more aoe damage than anyone else, even beating silly ele 'omg haxxored!11' nukers (pre lazy Izzy update. Fix VoD ffs...). Problem is I need an IAS'ed warrior, derv, or perhaps paragon to dish it out. It's a symbiotic relationship and without a host, the rit dies. No other 'good' nuke functions like this (except Balthazar's Aura on occasion).
This goes against the 'nature' of the game in that the current culture (in high-end pve, read as bull-dozer zones) it's more common to use a warrior, the most efficient killing force in the game, as a tank.
So your warrior/derv isn't doing anything other than using Signet of Stamina, enchantments or Obsidian Flesh every now and then. Hench the rit organism dies or at least doesn't function productively in your typical holy trinity. Recently cleared FoW using a balanced build on the rit. You wouldn't believe how hard it was to find warriors who just wanted to hit stuff. Mind boggling...

Spirits:
Mostly shit these days. They are fundamentally flawed on so many levels. What spirit rit, could ever split effectively in GvG even if they weren't nerfed into the afterlife? What Spirit rit is not going to slow down the entire team in pve for marginal profit?
There are an alarmingly small number of spirits that are any good at all. Most of those are basic attack spirits. I say this mainly because they 'can' function well in bull dozer zones since the damage is armour ignoring and fairly consistent. Still doesn't come close to justifying their sorry existence.

Healing Rits as opposed to Monks:
Yeah whatever...

Using the skills outside the Rit:
While this is championed as the crowning glory of the rit (well... After Splinter/Ancestors), it's just an arbitrary result of Spawning Power being shit. This isn't even down to it's inherent effect being shit (oh it is, wildly so), but mostly because the skills in the line are also really really shit. Whats even more perplexing is that a lot of them are also enchantments, when the rit is supposed to be this obscure class that can function well without needing them.
Ok they get to use skills from other professions... So what? They usually end up using the tools the primary won't touch because they have better tools somewhere a rit can't reach/use well (LoD, Defensive Anthem, etc.) or simply have more important jobs.
No paragon is ever going to use Song of Restoration extensively. They have 'much' better things to do. Just like most monks won't touch most of the stuff in smite for much the same reason. Expel Hexes? Mesmers have better things to do. Melee Ward? Tell the retarded ele to stop putting 13 in E Storage and grab a clue. Sure it makes playing rit more fun, but it's not wildly useful.


So yeah, I still very much love rits, but I am under no pretense that they are not retarded on so many levels. A lot of what they are good at is simply to obscure for the rest of the game to really benefit from. Even when strong stuff like Splinter(pre lazy Izzy/Anet) and Ancestor's exists, some retard in pve won't clock and that rit will be left out.

So wild tangent aside, your not wrong when you say "...it is definitely not one of my better professions to play" since it's that way for a lot of people, experienced or not.
You say you've looked around and have not seen many solid base-line rit builds (pvx is shit btw): Have you ever heard of the Fermi Paradox? It's essentially the contradiction between the high probability of alien beings existing in such a vast universe, and the extreme lack of evidence supporting it.
Well there are a lot rits out there who play and enjoy the class. Thus you could assume there were solid builds out there, however there aren't many recorded builds that support this theory when you compare the class to say warrior or elementalist.

Well yeah there aren't any. The closest you'll get is this:

[skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill] Whatever x 5 [Some kinda' res]

Fill in the gaps however way you want, but just be prepared for it to not be that good... Spirits are crap nowadays.. However RTs are better healers than monks... accept it or not :S. Best support = Rit healer + Prot monk... Just using 1 skill a rit can heal som1 for 3/4 of their bar.. Spirit Transfer WeWt. Also theyr good at removing conditions, hexes etc... Dude have you cheked wiki? there are thousands of solid builds out there for rits. Weaker than most classed??? Now thats just dum... look at paras? look at mesmers (PvE)? Just cus of the recent nerfs on spirits and splinter doesnt make them weaker in any way.. they heal far better under pressure than a monk can. and they can deal obscene amounts of dmg. not to mention the fact they can interupt foes too

frojack

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

09 Nov 2007 at 11:48 - 5
I'm not going to have this argument again, been there too many times. (lol Paragons...). Suffice to say I am very fond of rits(this I repeat), but I am not going to be delusional...

As soon as you say anything like "rits are better healers than monks" it puts you into a different camp with a wildly different out-look to my own. Let's just leave it there please...

Qdq Swi

Qdq Swi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/

09 Nov 2007 at 12:05 - 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
I'm not going to have this argument again, been there too many times. (lol Paragons...). Suffice to say I am very fond of rits(this I repeat), but I am not going to be delusional...

As soon as you say anything like "rits are better healers than monks" it puts you into a different camp with a wildly different out-look to my own. Let's just leave it there please... Its true though!!! Beleive me... I have both a monk and a rit.. and I play them both well... for protting... no rits dont even fit into the prot monking margin. But its a known fact ask any1 that wether u appreciate it or not.. Rits are BETTER healers than monks are.

Even a monk with maxxed healing and divine favor both at 16 with jameis gaze and healers boon wouldnt heal as much as a rit healer would with sup restoration, spirit transfer and life

frojack

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

09 Nov 2007 at 12:52 - 7
Argh! Your baiting me!

Thing is prot is better than heal. So logically a combination of both is the best way to go right? You can achieve this on a 'single' monk. Why not bring 2? So when I say stuff like 'better healer', what I'm talking about is keeping people alive. Perhaps I should be clearer when I write this stuff as I see both prot and heal as generally the same shit. Death prevention.

The actual numbers on the heals are somewhat irrelevant. I'll take a prot/heal hybrid over a Rit resto any day of the weak. Yes I play monk to...

Pick Me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Thornill, ON, Canada

THE CANUCK MONKS (TCM)

W/R

09 Nov 2007 at 15:13 - 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deftones_Korn_Unloco
Hey =]

So I've played this profession for a while now, and it is definitely not one of my better professions to play. I really need guidance and advice with my ritualist and builds.
Even more so with the October 12th update that spirits now suffer from burning and -50 health, I just turn a blind eye to using spirits now because of that, as many of them die quite fast as it is, or as it was. Is the result of the update as bad as it sounds?
I wish I could make one of those intriguing builds that when looked at people go, "hey, that's pretty clever..." Of course, I lack the understanding of this profession to do so, hense why I'm posting a thread seeking help.

I have looked at other forum posts and stickeys that seem to offer some assistance with skills, builds and the like, but often these discussions are turned into mixed opinions that don't have a sense of direction, and often I find myself getting lost in what I'm reading and trying to understand. Also, some are out-dated and I doubt would be as effective as they were in todays game play (updates, new skills, nerfs etc...)

I do feel that the Ritualist is a good profession to play: it's fun, different, unique and bizarre, with the added bonus of an entertaining dance from the males and, a conspicuously distinctive dance from the females.

Thanks in advance =] In what form do you wish guidance in? Spirits - what to bring, where to place them, etc? Channelling - good, bad, uses? Spawning - worth investing in? Restoration - good heals? Communion - how many spirits to bring, what order, etc?

Ritualists are versatile, about as versatile as your mind will allow. Rit/N - minion bomber (takes practice to target your minions to bomb though).

Rit/R - splinter barrager (from what I've heard, splinter weapon has been downsized, but I don't know to what extent)

The question is what can you not do?

Protect - ritualists can protect via blocking, union, shelter.
Lightning - channelling is fairly decent as far as offense goes for a spellcaster
Healing - a great deal of party healing and condition removal comes from Restoration and Spawning
Spirits - more targets for your enemies, more damage from your party (many spirits attack)
Life Stealing - offensively and defensively
Hard Rez
Great energy management
Become un-interuptable
Disable enemy spells that target you
Interupt

What you lack:
other than blindness & burning, you have no other conditions to inflict and you have no movement skills.
No hex removal


Hope this helps a little.

Qdq Swi

Qdq Swi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/

09 Nov 2007 at 15:27 - 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick Me
In what form do you wish guidance in? Spirits - what to bring, where to place them, etc? Channelling - good, bad, uses? Spawning - worth investing in? Restoration - good heals? Communion - how many spirits to bring, what order, etc?

Ritualists are versatile, about as versatile as your mind will allow. Rit/N - minion bomber (takes practice to target your minions to bomb though).

Rit/R - splinter barrager (from what I've heard, splinter weapon has been downsized, but I don't know to what extent)

The question is what can you not do?

Protect - ritualists can protect via blocking, union, shelter.
Lightning - channelling is fairly decent as far as offense goes for a spellcaster
Healing - a great deal of party healing and condition removal comes from Restoration and Spawning
Spirits - more targets for your enemies, more damage from your party (many spirits attack)
Life Stealing - offensively and defensively
Hard Rez
Great energy management
Become un-interuptable
Disable enemy spells that target you
Interupt

What you lack:
other than blindness & burning, you have no other conditions to inflict and you have no movement skills.
No hex removal


Hope this helps a little. Rit prot is useless.. Shelter takes 50 damage every block... 2 hits and its dead... utterly a waste of energy.... And minion bomber is tottaly rubbish too... Spiri Spamming is just dumb in PvE... all you need is 1 spirit depending on which attribute ur using the most.. e.g. Restoration = Recuperation, Channeling = Bloodsong, Communing = Pain etc...

Deftones_Korn_Unloco

Deftones_Korn_Unloco

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

In a country, in a city, in a house.

Kirins of Holy Light

Mo/

09 Nov 2007 at 16:28 - 10
I really appreciate the opinions so far, and each have been supported in some way or another with reasonable evidence.
I do ask that this thread to not become another debate on whether Ritualists are good or bad, there have been countless threads that have turned out to be like that.

As to what frojak was saying, I see where he is coming from, and I do have to agree with Ritualists not being better healers than monks because of of todays (9th November) update. Not to criticize, but the change in Healer's Boon, Word of Healing, Glimmer of Light, Healing Ribbon, Vigorous Spirit, Cure Hex and there's a few more I think, have really up the level of healing monks. If you take Word of Healing for example, that is an enormous spike heal on its own, then take into account Divine Favour, it's phenomenal. If you added Healer's Boon into a healing build, again it would be a much favoured healing build I believe. So because of this update, I'm led to doubt the effectiveness of Ritualists healing capabilities in comparison with a Monk, though I don't doubt that Ritualists can heal as I've done so before, and relatively effective in it's own right. However I doubt it will be as effective now, on a personal note.

As you can probably tell, I'm still pondering over this profession and it's effectiveness.
In an earlier response, Pick Me questioned which form I would like guidance with, and my answer to that would be Channeling; the good and the bad of it's use. Also, how to make efficient use of and Spawning; whether it is worth investing in.
Just as a side note and this next bit may seem a little pointless to some, but I'll give a shot at asking anyway (never know if you do not ask as they say), can I get a poll going of who thinks that Communing is still effective?

Again, I really do appreciate and respect all the feedback that I've been getting so far, and any more to come.

I'm sorry if this response back hasn't been very clear, it is late where I am now, and if some of it or all of it isn't to the point please excuse me, I'm a bit sleepy. I'll try harder the next time I look at this thread.

Calen The Civl

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

09 Nov 2007 at 16:29 - 11
frojack, I have to agree with you. As much as I enjoy the class, the relatively lack of effectiveness does take a toll. I spend most of my time playing Spirit Strength builds and other builds that are not really of the ritualist class. The brainstorming threads to revamp the rit fizzled out; it is not like anet would redesign and entire class at this point of the game anyway.

With all the hits to the class, I sometimes regret choosing the class as my primary character to run the pointless title treadmill. The mechanics are unique against all the other classes; however, it is becoming difficult to play a gimped often ineffective class and have fun.

The best chance a rit has in a pug is as a restoration rit just mindlessly pumping out hp.

Qdq Swi

Qdq Swi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/

09 Nov 2007 at 18:05 - 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calen The Civl
The best chance a rit has in a pug is as a restoration rit just mindlessly pumping out hp.
NOT TRUE... A monk leader in tahnaki temple mission (when I was helping my freind) specificly told me to use a splinter/ spirit rift/ ancestor's rage build. Just cus the majority of people think rits DO suck.. doesnt mean the people who have an idea think in the same way. Btw... Got masters in 15.02 mins .

EDIT : na communing just sucks :P unless your spirit spamming which is utterly useless unless your solo green farming.. magni the bison farming.. and 1v1ing... and what not.

Quote: If you find the burning annoying, try doing something other than spirit shitting. Rits can do other stuff you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
The problem with having 1 or 2 skills that are good in a line is that they are incredibly expensive to run in terms of attribute points. If 2 useful skills became 4, the cost of communing spec goes down and the value of the line goes up exponentially.
There only needs to be 5-6 spells adjusted and made 'good' (completely change Ghostly so it isn't redundant if Guided is 'fixed' for example), and communing becomes an attractive alternative for ritualists. However it just sits like a half-finished super-structure in a wasteland of ritualist design ideas... /nods.

frojack

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

09 Nov 2007 at 18:07 - 13
Communing:
Since Ritualist spirits are fundamentally flawed, this line is somewhat anemic as the main source or the classes spirits. There are some interesting concepts in there but it really hasn't been explored properly by the Anet design team, simply because I imagine they actually thought the communing spirits were a 'good idea' and didn't want to give the class too many tools (too much of that and you get Paragon syndrome).

Dulled Weapon for example has limited scope, but the idea behind it is sound. While being essentially a borrowed idea (Curses, and to a lesser extent Water magic), it has unique function in that it can deny a significant portion of physical damage by preventing critical strikes. It has solid cast time and a fairly strong recharge (similar to typical hex removal) and has insane nearby AoE.
In a world without spirit-spam something like this might have been made a little stronger at the design stage. However it's currently just interesting and not really worth the investment.

Binding Chains:
Another borrowed skill concept (Pacifism, and Water magic). Could be stronger and very useful for controlling key physicals you don't want to touch yet but are being a nuisance. It could also serve as a base-line snare. A versatile tool. A few simple adjustments (relaxed snare, cast time, recharge, and duration reassessments) would be all it would need. However at its current strength it just sucks.

Guided & Ghostly Weapon:
Ghostly Weapon was a pointless creation to be honest. A very recent addition well in hindsight of the Ritualist mistakes making it even more mind boggling. Instead of just making Guided Weapon a 'touch' stronger, they created a clone skill that requires baby-sitting level attention to be effective. Another wasted opportunity.

Xinrae:
These skills (mostly the weapon spell, the other is a bit retarded) are without doubt the most interesting skills in the communing line. They are again a borrowed concept (mesmer disruption) but are skewed in such a fashion to promote unique usage. This has been explored in a few updates, but again Anet didn't follow through and abandoned the development before it yielded any tangible results. (I'm still pretty pissed off about this one actually...)

Brutal Weapon:
In light of what happened to conjures, this could be a very strong skill. Except the enchantment condition destroys it. I imagine this is to prevent over-loading physical damage (which would easily happen).

Note: To fix this all that need happen would be to force it work with only physical damage, and maybe an inherent clause with maintained enchantments to preempt Strength of Honor exploitation. Perhaps even adding 'target other' to force it to stay on Rits. Simple changes make an otherwise dead skill like this viable.

Weapon of Quickening:
This is the only consistently 'good' skill in the line. It's function is very desirable and characteristically un-Ritualist in the sense that it has general appeal across all the casters in the game and very few negative qualities. In fact it's borderline over-powered if it ever saw play in pvp...



The problem with having 1 or 2 skills that are good in a line is that they are incredibly expensive to run in terms of attribute points. If 2 useful skills became 4, the cost of communing spec goes down and the value of the line goes up exponentially.
There only needs to be 5-6 spells adjusted and made 'good' (completely change Ghostly so it isn't redundant if Guided is 'fixed' for example), and communing becomes an attractive alternative for ritualists. However it just sits like a half-finished super-structure in a wasteland of ritualist design ideas...

frojack

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

09 Nov 2007 at 18:15 - 14
@Calen & Qdq Swi:

I hear what your saying Calen, but don't forget the environment your in. The whole game is currently in a down-turn. What your experiencing is quite possibly a combination of the rit being 'at odds with the world' and the world itself becoming stale. Which of the 2 is greater is up in the air I guess.

Qdq Swi is certainly right about attitudes in-game. As a rit for the last 2 months I have not received 'any' negativity for being this weirdo class. I could just be lucky but I really do think people are being more liberal.

Oh, and I haven't played Heal bot for 6 months...

horseradish

horseradish

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

In a donut hole

Rt/A

09 Nov 2007 at 22:40 - 15
Rits are better Red-Bars-Go-Up healers.

They have bigass non-elite heals with fast recharges and low energy costs. Quite a few of the huge non-elite heals from the monk line don't allow you to them on yourself either.

The rit is a flexible profession, though not as crazy chameleon-like as most people claim, there is a kind of niche, but rits are not stuck in only one type of play style as monks, warriors, and eles are.

It is true that Eles will always deal more damage than rits and Monks will always be more in favor with the gods than rits, but rits don't have to be one thing or another.

Rits are able to be 75% ele & 75% monk on one bar without sacrificing flexibility.

The class is innovative in it's essence.

CE Devilman

CE Devilman

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Do U Trust Anet

N/Mo

09 Nov 2007 at 23:12 - 16
Decreased the Health of all Spirits by 50; allowed Burning to affect Spirits
Lava Ground:The Great Destroyer creates a giant blast that melts earth into lava.

my rit made it to all endgames before the "update"

do use U mind Anet...

(btw any 55 Word of Censure monk can run the last mission)

milkflopance

milkflopance

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

England

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

10 Nov 2007 at 00:37 - 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by CE Devilman
Decreased the Health of all Spirits by 50; allowed Burning to affect Spirits
Lava Ground:The Great Destroyer creates a giant blast that melts earth into lava.

my rit made it to all endgames before the "update"

do use U mind Anet...
btw any 55 Word of Censure monk can run the last mission Why would anyone want to look for a 55 when it's so easy with H&H anyway?

Qdq Swi

Qdq Swi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/

10 Nov 2007 at 08:40 - 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
Rits are better Red-Bars-Go-Up healers.

They have bigass non-elite heals with fast recharges and low energy costs. Quite a few of the huge non-elite heals from the monk line don't allow you to them on yourself either.

The rit is a flexible profession, though not as crazy chameleon-like as most people claim, there is a kind of niche, but rits are not stuck in only one type of play style as monks, warriors, and eles are.

It is true that Eles will always deal more damage than rits and Monks will always be more in favor with the gods than rits, but rits don't have to be one thing or another.

Rits are able to be 75% ele & 75% monk on one bar without sacrificing flexibility.

The class is innovative in it's essence. I agree with that... BUT o.o Have you seen the massive buffs on the healing attribute.. Just happened yesterday... I wonder if people in HoH will be using healers now :S. Glimmer of light.. Word of Healing... My god its not even fair anymore.

Dodo The Extinct

Dodo The Extinct

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Me/Rt

10 Nov 2007 at 15:31 - 19
Quote:
 I agree with that... BUT o.o Have you seen the massive buffs on the healing attribute.. Just happened yesterday... I wonder if people in HoH will be using healers now :S. Glimmer of light.. Word of Healing... My god its not even fair anymore. The Healing Line needs a ton of buffs. Teams are like castles and LoD was the block that they were all resting on. Take LoD out, and everything crumbles. Relying on one skill isn't great imo. Monks need more tools to deal with the Power Creep.

Calen The Civl

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

10 Nov 2007 at 16:21 - 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qdq Swi
NOT TRUE... A monk leader in tahnaki temple mission (when I was helping my freind) specificly told me to use a splinter/ spirit rift/ ancestor's rage build. Just cus the majority of people think rits DO suck.. doesnt mean the people who have an idea think in the same way. Btw... Got masters in 15.02 mins . I haven't played a healing turret in a long time. I generally play my own rather quirky builds when I join the rare pug. However, a healing rit is the easiest way to join a group. This is likely even more true with the hit splinter weapon has taken. While it is still viable, splinter is likely to fall out of favor with most groups in favor to another ele in pve.

A nice "wintersday" gift from anet would include a complete overhaul of the ritualist class, its primary attribute, its spirit mechanics, its protection abilities, etc. Although, we all know this will not happen. Some of the skill as frojack has discussed are interesting mechanics but are simply too expensive or flawed to be truly viable.

Ideally, a ritualist would be equal to the monk in protection and healing abilities and have unique active party support through weapon spells and spirits. There are enough damage oriented classes in the game. Channeling should be relegated to smiting - on option for when you do want to do damage, but the class should be purely a unique alternative to the monk's role with offensive support abilities.

Qdq Swi

Qdq Swi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

N/

10 Nov 2007 at 16:32 - 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calen The Civl
I haven't played a healing turret in a long time. I generally play my own rather quirky builds when I join the rare pug. However, a healing rit is the easiest way to join a group. This is likely even more true with the hit splinter weapon has taken. While it is still viable, splinter is likely to fall out of favor with most groups in favor to another ele in pve.

A nice "wintersday" gift from anet would include a complete overhaul of the ritualist class, its primary attribute, its spirit mechanics, its protection abilities, etc. Although, we all know this will not happen. Some of the skill as frojack has discussed are interesting mechanics but are simply too expensive or flawed to be truly viable.

Ideally, a ritualist would be equal to the monk in protection and healing abilities and have unique active party support through weapon spells and spirits. There are enough damage oriented classes in the game. Channeling should be relegated to smiting - on option for when you do want to do damage, but the class should be purely a unique alternative to the monk's role with offensive support abilities. Too true, too true, but leave channeling as it is :P. I love the AoE damage from Spirit Rift, Splinter Weapon and Ancestors' rage even though Splinter was 'nerfed'.

Quicksilver Switch-Blade

Quicksilver Switch-Blade

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

Columbia, Missouri

Looking for one

Rt/

10 Nov 2007 at 21:54 - 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calen The Civl
I haven't played a healing turret in a long time. I generally play my own rather quirky builds when I join the rare pug. However, a healing rit is the easiest way to join a group. This is likely even more true with the hit splinter weapon has taken. While it is still viable, splinter is likely to fall out of favor with most groups in favor to another ele in pve.

A nice "wintersday" gift from anet would include a complete overhaul of the ritualist class, its primary attribute, its spirit mechanics, its protection abilities, etc. Although, we all know this will not happen. Some of the skill as frojack has discussed are interesting mechanics but are simply too expensive or flawed to be truly viable.

Ideally, a ritualist would be equal to the monk in protection and healing abilities and have unique active party support through weapon spells and spirits. There are enough damage oriented classes in the game. Channeling should be relegated to smiting - on option for when you do want to do damage, but the class should be purely a unique alternative to the monk's role with offensive support abilities. Then it would just be a paragon without spear mastery, Id love to see it become truly versatile (melee, nuker, support, healer, whatever) all in one little package, but like you said, I don't see it happening either way in GW1.

Plus, Id really not like to see channeling ever become as bad as smiting, thats just wrong.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

11 Nov 2007 at 03:54 - 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deftones_Korn_Unloco
So because of this update, I'm led to doubt the effectiveness of Ritualists healing capabilities in comparison with a Monk, though I don't doubt that Ritualists can heal as I've done so before, and relatively effective in it's own right. However I doubt it will be as effective now, on a personal note.
- The whole problem when you're asking this question on Ritualist forum springs from the fact that people who visit here answer from their own personal experiences (even when there's accurate numerical data available). In addition to this, there's a number of PvE players who develop emotional attachment to their characters, so it's a very bad place for accurate comparisons.

For example, a Rit player might say:
"I've finished all three campaigns with my Ritualist and gotten protector title. I can keep my allies alive and deal damage to enemies, so Ritualist profession is a good one."

I wouldn't doubt his word, but I'd have certain reservations about how vast knowledge the player has about other classes in the game. It may quite well be that any character can get protector title with multitude of builds and have easier time getting them. This is a PvE forum and we all know the easiness of normal mode never pushes players to find more effective ways to get things done. It's purely optional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deftones_Korn_Unloco
As you can probably tell, I'm still pondering over this profession and it's effectiveness.
In an earlier response, Pick Me questioned which form I would like guidance with, and my answer to that would be Channeling; the good and the bad of it's use. Also, how to make efficient use of and Spawning; whether it is worth investing in. - First thing you should be asking yourself: why do you want to be Rit primary? If it's about cool-looking character model and beautiful dances, go ahead. I'm personally a bit vain person and often pondering if I should play professions that seem individualistic choices for PvE, even when I know their performance will be mediocre. Other reason could be that you wanted to use Ritualist skills. Then you have to think how much benefit those minor runes and primary attribute will yield to you and would something else like Soul Reaping be better choice for PvE.

It's a short way from choosing your primary attribute to evaluating your skillbar effectiveness. In this case if you figured Soul Reaping is indeed more effective for PvE than spirit-buffing Spawning Power with one to zero spirits on your bar, perhaps Necro attributes (now with minor runes) will outshine those Rit lines. Hence we can pretty much conclude that Ritualist performance leaves much to be desired. Again normal mode PvE is no comparison point when enemies are total pushovers. Troubles start when you enter hard mode and you really start to think about what works and what doesn't. Then you will realize how easy time nearly every other profession has coming up with effective builds. Elementalist, for example, can counter melee, tank, deal damage and snare. Not on the same bar, but it's a possibility. Monk profession can pre-emptively protect tank and it's no longer flawed comparison "which is better skill Orison or Wielder's Boon?" Ranger has more powerful spirits, Broad Head Arrow, traps, Barrage, etc. you get the point.

Non-core professions are what the name implies. You will have less skills and thus options for builds, fewer armor and weapon skins, fewer spots in party. It's sad but true. Who wants to experience half of game what others are experiencing? I wouldn't. Only redeeming factor non-core classes have for themselves are few gimmicky builds (case in point: "There's Nothing To Fear!" and "Save Yourselves!" on Paragon) and always living in fear of being nerfed to oblivion when skill balancer gets into his head some PvE skill is too good.

Deftones_Korn_Unloco

Deftones_Korn_Unloco

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2007

In a country, in a city, in a house.

Kirins of Holy Light

Mo/

12 Nov 2007 at 13:13 - 24
Quote:
- First thing you should be asking yourself: why do you want to be Rit primary? If it's about cool-looking character model and beautiful dances, go ahead. I'm personally a bit vain person and often pondering if I should play professions that seem individualistic choices for PvE, even when I know their performance will be mediocre. Other reason could be that you wanted to use Ritualist skills. Then you have to think how much benefit those minor runes and primary attribute will yield to you and would something else like Soul Reaping be better choice for PvE.
Thank you for that advice, that helped put things into perspective a little better for me.

Quote:
- The whole problem when you're asking this question on Ritualist forum springs from the fact that people who visit here answer from their own personal experiences (even when there's accurate numerical data available). In addition to this, there's a number of PvE players who develop emotional attachment to their characters, so it's a very bad place for accurate comparisons.

For example, a Rit player might say:
"I've finished all three campaigns with my Ritualist and gotten protector title. I can keep my allies alive and deal damage to enemies, so Ritualist profession is a good one."

I wouldn't doubt his word, but I'd have certain reservations about how vast knowledge the player has about other classes in the game. It may quite well be that any character can get protector title with multitude of builds and have easier time getting them. This is a PvE forum and we all know the easiness of normal mode never pushes players to find more effective ways to get things done. It's purely optional. I didn't think of that to be honest, so thank you for pointing that out, I'll know better next time. It's quite a good point you made there.

I really appreciate your views and opinions, it has helped clear the dust off the mirror much easier, thank you. And as well, to everyone else.

TGgold

TGgold

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Flying Gophers

Rt/P

12 Nov 2007 at 18:32 - 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deftones_Korn_Unloco
Thank you for that advice, that helped put things into perspective a little better for me.



I didn't think of that to be honest, so thank you for pointing that out, I'll know better next time. It's quite a good point you made there.

I really appreciate your views and opinions, it has helped clear the dust off the mirror much easier, thank you. And as well, to everyone else. While some people may say those things. When it comes to picking a Rit, I just say: Spirit's Strength. It's the one really fun elite to play with that Rits get, but it's in Spawning, so it's Rit only.

Otherwise, it's just a choice of runes and headgear. I personally have more fun playing my Rit than I did on my monk, ele, and necro. Ranger is almost as fun. But yeah, I'd say if you want a FUN profession that looks NEAT, and is a JACK OF ALL TRADES, that pretty much sums of the Rit. I believe their strength lies in versatility, but because of this there is a minor decrease in effectiveness versus certain builds of other professions.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

13 Nov 2007 at 00:11 - 26
If they haven't ruined Warmonger's Weapon then a Ritualist with a bow and an IAS (and maybe SS or OoS) is still a better interrupter than the Ranger, while allowing for support in the form of Ancestor's Rage or more weapon spells.

It doesn't matter either way, I will always play Ritualist except in PvP where I just roll (heh, how did that term get to Guild Wars anyways? There are no dice-determined stats in Guild Wars) a PvP character (usually assassin) and play with that, but in PvE, I will stay Ritualist, and if Anet continues nerfing us, I will try to go on as best I can. But I wish their hating would ease up a bit.