The recent monk elite balance screwed Mhenlo up just a tad.
Mhenlo is one of the only henchies you get in all three campaigns (+ grind of the north), and the only reliably healing one (some of the prot ones don't pack healpower at all, and the ZB ones have terrible AI and don't reserve ZB for <50% HP heals).
Back in Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall, his WoH bar wasn't outstanding, but it was enough to get you through. In Grind of the North, ANet put more thought into NPC bars, and gave Mhenlo semi-decent skills; LoD, deny hexes, dwayna's kiss and the usual bunch of shitty healing spells.
However, the recent Monk elite skill balance swapped Mhenlo around; he's scarily good in proph/faction/nightfall (minus the usual lack of condi/hex removal) due to the WoH buff, while he's absolute crap in grind of the north because LoD has a 2s cast time and every other mob has interrupts.
What with the mobs being harder in GotN (and me not wanting to devote 2 hero slots to monks), would it be too much to ask ANet to replace LoD with WoH on Mhenlo's bar?
Mhenlo nerf/buff
Auron of Neon
Armond
Heh, Auron actually got me to post here for once.
To be honest, I'd like it if Mhenlo had, in every campaign, Word of Healing, a campaign-flavored hex removal, a campaign-flavored condition removal, and another cheap heal or two. Please not something stupid like the Spotlesses; some sort of *efficient* hex and condition removal, please. Veil, Remove, or Cure for hex removal; Dismiss would be the ideal condition removal, but for Proph and Factions, he'd have to use Mend or perhaps Purge Condition. It's just the necessary parts of every monk bar: An elite, some sort of spike heal, hex removal, condition removal, and energy management.
To be honest, I'd like it if Mhenlo had, in every campaign, Word of Healing, a campaign-flavored hex removal, a campaign-flavored condition removal, and another cheap heal or two. Please not something stupid like the Spotlesses; some sort of *efficient* hex and condition removal, please. Veil, Remove, or Cure for hex removal; Dismiss would be the ideal condition removal, but for Proph and Factions, he'd have to use Mend or perhaps Purge Condition. It's just the necessary parts of every monk bar: An elite, some sort of spike heal, hex removal, condition removal, and energy management.
~ Dan ~
Why not just let us make the hench bars before going out to explore!!
One can dream
One can dream
ReiNaruto
The changes to WoH or LoD are temporal, only to test during next week.
So, I suppose that better play with other humans with more heroes, human monks or try playing with Menhlo.
So, I suppose that better play with other humans with more heroes, human monks or try playing with Menhlo.
Longasc
My fear about "Hench/Hero Monks becoming 2 second cast interrupt fodder with LoD" seems to be shared by other people as well.
But did people already test it?
It is not only a matter of the skill, but how the Hero/Hench AI decides to use it. Now LoD has no longer a 80% health "trigger" (Mhenlo was good at waiting exactly for that in case of heavy degen on the whole party), how does he use it.
This said, the healing reduction was not a big thing, party x 70 is still powerful, and the 80% restriction is gone.
The casting time is the big deal issue that needs to be tested.
But did people already test it?
It is not only a matter of the skill, but how the Hero/Hench AI decides to use it. Now LoD has no longer a 80% health "trigger" (Mhenlo was good at waiting exactly for that in case of heavy degen on the whole party), how does he use it.
This said, the healing reduction was not a big thing, party x 70 is still powerful, and the 80% restriction is gone.
The casting time is the big deal issue that needs to be tested.
undeadgun
it depends imo, GWEN Mehlo is a nerf, other 3 are a buff.( i thought only gwen mehlo has LoD) just checked, other 3 all has WoH
Sweet Mystery
/signed
The LoD nerf wipes out the usefulness of Mhenlo in GW:EN. Hardmode dungeons and quests so much harder now... lol... and you have to expect party wipes. With dungeons booting at 60% DP.... going to be a harder time for sure.
Also stops the use of LoD for this actual people who used it on their characters... I use it on my monk with my condition removers and other healing skills. Weakens me for sure, maybe should use heal party again
The LoD nerf wipes out the usefulness of Mhenlo in GW:EN. Hardmode dungeons and quests so much harder now... lol... and you have to expect party wipes. With dungeons booting at 60% DP.... going to be a harder time for sure.
Also stops the use of LoD for this actual people who used it on their characters... I use it on my monk with my condition removers and other healing skills. Weakens me for sure, maybe should use heal party again
bungusmaximus
Heh I would love it anyways if people would rework the hench bars a little (ranger without interrupts WTF). They are usually pretty pitiful. Especially monks lacking hex and condi removals are a pain in the booty. I always have to gimp my hero bars to take that when I run hench monk only.
MrSlayer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ReiNaruto
The changes to WoH or LoD are temporal, only to test during next week.
So, I suppose that better play with other humans with more heroes, human monks or try playing with Menhlo. |
<3 WoH
</3 LoD D:
Saraphim
/signed.
I don't want to take hero monks, unless I re-spec Dunkoro I'll have to take Tahlkora and her incessant grunting gets on my nerves.
I don't want to take hero monks, unless I re-spec Dunkoro I'll have to take Tahlkora and her incessant grunting gets on my nerves.
Skuld
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Why not just let us make the hench bars before going out to explore!!
One can dream |
netniwk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skuld
Seven heroes.
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Antheus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ReiNaruto
The changes to WoH or LoD are temporal, only to test during next week.
|
Quote:
| So, I suppose that better play with other humans with more heroes, human monks or try playing with Menhlo. |
And the "play with humans" argument is pointless in this case.
Vinraith
Quote:
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Originally Posted by crazy diamond
Are you suggesting the claim is inaccurate?
On topic, I feel the change hurts Mhenlo as a henchman. LoD went from a fast conditional heal to little more than a cheap version of Heal Party. It's not a tweak, it's a whole other spell now. |
/signed for the underlying point, but not for the attitude.
zwei2stein
What about focusing at actual reason this thread came to exist:
LoD nerf vs. GWEN Mhenlo.
Spiders being most annoying monsters would have good laigh at his 4s lods.
Now, 2s cast is something that makes difference .. in worst case, it means that you are waiting nearly 4s for him to respond to spike /spike happening at start of him casting lod + .75 aftercast + 1s for healing spell cast./
Now, his other known mistake was to use Vigorous Spirit to counter spikes.
Other iffy skill on his bar is divine intervention, also enchantment, which he sadly never seems to use to good effect and which is there probably only to help with deny hexes.
Now, solution is simple:
Divine Intervention --> Holy Haste /fixes good amount of LoD nerf, worked as kinda better trigger for deny hexes/
Vigorous Spirit --> (dream stuff would be giving him secondary and ANY emanagement skill) Signet of Rejuvenation - /just to fill 8th slot with something for him to do when hes zeroed energy/
LoD nerf vs. GWEN Mhenlo.
Spiders being most annoying monsters would have good laigh at his 4s lods.
Now, 2s cast is something that makes difference .. in worst case, it means that you are waiting nearly 4s for him to respond to spike /spike happening at start of him casting lod + .75 aftercast + 1s for healing spell cast./
Now, his other known mistake was to use Vigorous Spirit to counter spikes.
Other iffy skill on his bar is divine intervention, also enchantment, which he sadly never seems to use to good effect and which is there probably only to help with deny hexes.
Now, solution is simple:
Divine Intervention --> Holy Haste /fixes good amount of LoD nerf, worked as kinda better trigger for deny hexes/
Vigorous Spirit --> (dream stuff would be giving him secondary and ANY emanagement skill) Signet of Rejuvenation - /just to fill 8th slot with something for him to do when hes zeroed energy/
Carboplatin
/signed.
Mhelo is the bread and butter of my team builds ;(
Mhelo is the bread and butter of my team builds ;(
leprekan
/signed
Mhenlo actually asked for this so he would have more time to pm Cynn.
Mhenlo actually asked for this so he would have more time to pm Cynn.
Chthon
/signed
For the love of Dwayna, give GWEN Mhenlo WoH.
His AI never handled LoD well to start with, and now that LoD is junk it's definitely time to make the switch.
For the love of Dwayna, give GWEN Mhenlo WoH.
His AI never handled LoD well to start with, and now that LoD is junk it's definitely time to make the switch.
unienaule
Why not have them take a look at hench builds and re-work all of them? It would take one person maybe a week to do that. Sure, some of the stuff we get might end up bad, but some of the stuff we have now is bad too.
willie makeit
/signed
If I am hero/henching something I only use the henchmen for my monks and this will really slow me down. I hope they update the henchmen monk.
If I am hero/henching something I only use the henchmen for my monks and this will really slow me down. I hope they update the henchmen monk.
Red Sonya
nah /unsigned you can start playing with human monks again. 
Or you'll just HAVE to use two hero monks. Nobody said life was going to be easy for you forever now did they? hahahahahah
Or you'll just HAVE to use two hero monks. Nobody said life was going to be easy for you forever now did they? hahahahahah
Phaern Majes
/signed
Good ol' WoH
Good ol' WoH
A_Muppet
Here's a wacky idea. Let's wait and see if the changes are undone or not.
garethporlest18
I bet a lot of money that LoD will be reverted back to the way it was.
Hence we should just wait and see.
Hence we should just wait and see.
Gun Pierson
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Now, solution is simple:
Divine Intervention --> Holy Haste /fixes good amount of LoD nerf, worked as kinda better trigger for deny hexes/ Vigorous Spirit --> (dream stuff would be giving him secondary and ANY emanagement skill) Signet of Rejuvenation - /just to fill 8th slot with something for him to do when hes zeroed energy/ |
Mhenlo is important to me. As we don't get 7 heroes, I usually depend on him as my prime healer so I can use my 3 hero slots as part of a specific strategy. I don't wanne waste a hero slot on a healer if possible.
cosyfiep
nerf hits mhenlo....he screams in rage.....will he rage quit??? Will they get us another better healer???
well probably not, so
/signed its not a good update when it makes henchies even MORE useless than they already were.
well probably not, so
/signed its not a good update when it makes henchies even MORE useless than they already were.
kaheiyeh
/signed
But I'm actually more interested in removing Healing Touch from his bar. Nothing like Mhenlo running into a fight to heal someone.
But I'm actually more interested in removing Healing Touch from his bar. Nothing like Mhenlo running into a fight to heal someone.
HawkofStorms
Eh... monk henchmen have never been great (Danika anybody?).
/notsigned
Status quo is fine.
/notsigned
Status quo is fine.
Mordakai
Why not just un-nerf LoD?
(at least for PvE) Seriously, the PvE balance debate is done, charred and buried.
(at least for PvE) Seriously, the PvE balance debate is done, charred and buried.
Chthon
On second thought, merely changing LoD for WoH isn't going to cut it, since it would leave him without any party healing. At the very least, his bar needs to be reworked to include both WoH and Heal Party. So, I suggest the following Mhenlo-quality (ie not-terrible-but-not-the-greatest, (almost) pure healing) skillbar:
12 Healing Prayers, 12 Divine Favor, 3 Protection Prayers
[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill]
[skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]
(The skill with no mouseover is Cure Hex, for those without GWEN.)
12 Healing Prayers, 12 Divine Favor, 3 Protection Prayers
[skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill]
[skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill](The skill with no mouseover is Cure Hex, for those without GWEN.)
Spazzer
Bad bars itt.
If they change Mhenlo after this update, do they have to change him after the next one?
If they change Mhenlo after this update, do they have to change him after the next one?
Kha
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chthon
At the very least, his bar needs to be reworked to include both WoH and Heal Party.
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Seraphic Divinity
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kha
Heal Party on a hench? We want his bar to get better than the nerfed LoD, not worse. Though I agree, a heal monk without a party heal in GW:EN is very painful with all the massive degen and multiple LS spiking. Not to mention some of the insane creatures in HM you just can't prot against. A hero trying to individually deal with all this damage drains their energy quickly; trust me, I learned this plenty of times while vanquishing. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see if the change even stays. And if it does, deal with it like all the changes before.
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L2E-MANAGE
You can't see me
/Signed.
His performance is lacking badly, and since Eye of the North is the only one any of my characters have not completed, it's a real pain.
His performance is lacking badly, and since Eye of the North is the only one any of my characters have not completed, it's a real pain.
Spazzer
Y'all act like LoD got removed from the game completely.
They're not going to change the henchmen after every skill balance. They never have in the past, and they likely never will in the future.
They're not going to change the henchmen after every skill balance. They never have in the past, and they likely never will in the future.
madman24749
/signed
I definitely need Mhenlo healing decently . . .
I definitely need Mhenlo healing decently . . .
More Outrage
/not signed!
I still remember how the hench in prophesies were under lvl`ed for the areas they were available. So let`s face it if the original model had been followed we would be using lvl17 or even lvl15 hench in Vizunah and Sunspear Sanctuary. If you don`t like it revert back to using the hero monks that we all used first time we got them in Nightfall.
Adapt and survive. :P
I still remember how the hench in prophesies were under lvl`ed for the areas they were available. So let`s face it if the original model had been followed we would be using lvl17 or even lvl15 hench in Vizunah and Sunspear Sanctuary. If you don`t like it revert back to using the hero monks that we all used first time we got them in Nightfall.
Adapt and survive. :P
Zinger314
Quote:
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Originally Posted by unienaule
Why not have them take a look at hench builds and re-work all of them? It would take one person maybe a week to do that. Sure, some of the stuff we get might end up bad, but some of the stuff we have now is bad too.
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Chthon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kha
Heal Party on a hench?
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Quote:
| a heal monk without a party heal in GW:EN is very painful with all the massive degen and multiple LS spiking. Not to mention some of the insane creatures in HM you just can't prot against. |
Amon Warrior
I can only hope that LoD nerf is only temporary...