Question about paragons...
Terraban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambit Shinobi
Don't worry, Kwan Xi, some people like to bash others when they don't conform to cookie-cutter builds.
My Warrior is good at healing with Restoration too. I bring a staff, and max out restoration. Totally helps the team. I get compliments all the time since like, we have two monks, and I am healing too, and we never dies.
Kwan Xi
With Motivation Paragons my Motivation Strength is usually 12-15: I almost always bring these skills...
Signet of Synergy, Mending Refrain or Finale of Restoration, Song of Restoration, Ballad of Restoration, Aria of Zeal, Signet of Return
Then Depending on what's needed I would either bring certain Skills to help the party out
Tactics: 10-12
"Watch Yourself!", "Shields Up!"
Leadership: 6-12
Anthem of Flame, "There's Nothing to Fear!", Hexbreaker Aria
Protection Prayers: 7-10
Mend Ailment, Mend Condition, Dismiss Condition, Remove Hex
Spear Mastery: 9-12
Spear of Lightning, Barbed Spear
There are lots more combos I use but Generally I bring the above 5 Motivation skills almost all the time and add these extra skills depending on what the Team Needs. I usually take along my Fiery Sunspear of Shelter for the extra +5 Energy.
Signet of Synergy, Mending Refrain or Finale of Restoration, Song of Restoration, Ballad of Restoration, Aria of Zeal, Signet of Return
Then Depending on what's needed I would either bring certain Skills to help the party out
Tactics: 10-12
"Watch Yourself!", "Shields Up!"
Leadership: 6-12
Anthem of Flame, "There's Nothing to Fear!", Hexbreaker Aria
Protection Prayers: 7-10
Mend Ailment, Mend Condition, Dismiss Condition, Remove Hex
Spear Mastery: 9-12
Spear of Lightning, Barbed Spear
There are lots more combos I use but Generally I bring the above 5 Motivation skills almost all the time and add these extra skills depending on what the Team Needs. I usually take along my Fiery Sunspear of Shelter for the extra +5 Energy.
Mathias Deathwater
Paragons aren't monks, and motivation really isn't worth it to run as your primary job. The power of a paragon comes from its ability to dish out damage while giving the party massive buffs; they're really subpar as healers. Yes, they can work in pve, but as many people before me have stated, almost anything works there.
Kwan Xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathias Deathwater
Paragons aren't monks, and motivation really isn't worth it to run as your primary job. The power of a paragon comes from its ability to dish out damage while giving the party massive buffs; they're really subpar as healers. Yes, they can work in pve, but as many people before me have stated, almost anything works there.
Notice that I never said Paragons are Monks. As I said earlier paragons are a SUPPORT CLASS, meaning they help the team as they are needed. Motivation to help Monks, Spear to help with damage dealing, and Command Buffs to help the Party's Defense/Offense.
Paragons aren't meant to Replace Monks, Warriors, Rangers, or whatever they are to "SUPPLEMENT" the team. Help the Monks, and Warriors not replace them help the party in one or even two areas of need either with damage, heals, or buffs.
Paragons aren't meant to Replace Monks, Warriors, Rangers, or whatever they are to "SUPPLEMENT" the team. Help the Monks, and Warriors not replace them help the party in one or even two areas of need either with damage, heals, or buffs.
Ninian_Grace
besides the fact that Anet has been massively stomping and ruining Paragons lately...meh they own. that is mainly the reason why they nerfed them 4-5 times.
as for their popularity, people did not have time to experience how TNTF, GFTE and agresive refrain used to own. they are still awesome skills...just not as good as they were...
The only thing I hope is that they won't nerf characters, skills and monsters over and over again in GW2...just like they are doing with GW1. In my opinion, there are testers for this game...? once the skills are put online, leave em the way they are. We can think here about prot bond + divine boon, those were the days were the trading forums were FILLED with traders. *drools*
as for their popularity, people did not have time to experience how TNTF, GFTE and agresive refrain used to own. they are still awesome skills...just not as good as they were...
The only thing I hope is that they won't nerf characters, skills and monsters over and over again in GW2...just like they are doing with GW1. In my opinion, there are testers for this game...? once the skills are put online, leave em the way they are. We can think here about prot bond + divine boon, those were the days were the trading forums were FILLED with traders. *drools*
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwan Xi
Signet of Synergy, Mending Refrain or Finale of Restoration, Song of Restoration, Ballad of Restoration, Aria of Zeal, Signet of Return
...
There are lots more combos I use but Generally I bring the above 5 Motivation skills almost all the time and add these extra skills depending on what the Team Needs. I usually take along my Fiery Sunspear of Shelter for the extra +5 Energy.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ninian_Grace
In my opinion, there are testers for this game...? once the skills are put online, leave em the way they are.
There are threads in Riverside Inn for this kind of drivel.
Kwan Xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
I've heard that adrenaline, Leadership, and spears are good.
There are threads in Riverside Inn for this kind of drivel. Yes they are good and if my team wants me to help deal damage I can bring them. (feel free to actually read some of those supplement skills I list a few Spear, Adrenaline, Leadership skills as examples) Just because I bring a +5 Energy Spear to run motivation doesn't mean I don't use any Spear Mastery Skills at all I just don't use them all the time. When I can use my Spear Mastery I bring out a 20/20 15>50 +30HP Spear if that makes you feel happy. When I'm asked to go Motivation my primary job is to do Motivation first, Spear damage second.
Savio
There is no reason why you shouldn't have adrenaline skills, Leadership, and Spear Mastery in any good Paragon build, not as some optional component. If you had those, you wouldn't need a +5e spear, nor would you need to run a crappy partywide heal build.
Kwan Xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
There is no reason why you shouldn't have adrenaline skills, Leadership, and Spear Mastery in any good Paragon build, not as some optional component. If you had those, you wouldn't need a +5e spear, nor would you need to run a crappy partywide heal build.
I guess you might have been too short sighted to notice that I use the +5e Spear when I have no skills in Spear Mastery. In situations where I have 0 Spear Mastery a 15>50 Spear isn't going to much anyway so why bother with it?
As your saying any good Paragon Build sure there's room for Spear Mastery and sure theres nothing wrong with that I run Spear Skills when I'm Motivation too (see the variants from my earlier post). Ask yourself this... If your job is to help your team's monk with healing the party and the group has 3 Warriors 3 Elementalists and 1 monk are they really going to be angry if you have 0 Spear Mastery when your skills are diverted somewhere else? like say Tactics? or Protection/Healing Prayers? Are they really going to miss the damage you could be doing? Will they get mad that your helping with healing? buffing? or Condition/hex removal? A good Paragon Build just like any good build is one that effectively helps the Party. Just doing damage as a Paragon isn't everything, Help the Team survive first, Kill everything that moves second.
Terraban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwan Xi
I guess you might have been too short sighted to notice that I use the +5e Spear when I have no skills in Spear Mastery. In situations where I have 0 Spear Mastery a 15>50 Spear isn't going to much anyway so why bother with it?
As your saying any good Paragon Build sure there's room for Spear Mastery and sure theres nothing wrong with that I run Spear Skills when I'm Motivation too (see the variants from my earlier post). Ask yourself this... If your job is to help your team's monk with healing the party and the group has 3 Warriors 3 Elementalists and 1 monk are they really going to be angry if you have 0 Spear Mastery when your skills are diverted somewhere else? like say Tactics? or Protection/Healing Prayers? Are they really going to miss the damage you could be doing? Will they get mad that your helping with healing? buffing? or Condition/hex removal? A good Paragon Build just like any good build is one that effectively helps the Party. Just doing damage as a Paragon isn't everything, Help the Team survive first, Kill everything that moves second. This is what makes you fail. By that logic, you would be better off bringing a third monk. Or bringing a restoration warrior. Puzur
Paragons are really good as a support class specially in elite areas. When I play mine I can keep everyones energy regenerating fast between battles, increase armor and reduce damage to entire party in battle and also counter some degen to the entire party.
zwei2stein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwan Xi
I guess you might have been too short sighted to notice that I use the +5e Spear when I have no skills in Spear Mastery. In situations where I have 0 Spear Mastery a 15>50 Spear isn't going to much anyway so why bother with it?
As your saying any good Paragon Build sure there's room for Spear Mastery and sure theres nothing wrong with that I run Spear Skills when I'm Motivation too (see the variants from my earlier post). Ask yourself this... If your job is to help your team's monk with healing the party and the group has 3 Warriors 3 Elementalists and 1 monk are they really going to be angry if you have 0 Spear Mastery when your skills are diverted somewhere else? like say Tactics? or Protection/Healing Prayers? Are they really going to miss the damage you could be doing? Will they get mad that your helping with healing? buffing? or Condition/hex removal? A good Paragon Build just like any good build is one that effectively helps the Party. Just doing damage as a Paragon isn't everything, Help the Team survive first, Kill everything that moves second. Your problem is this: You don't understand what makes paragon good. Paragon is good class because he can fulfill "duality" role of being excellent damage dealer while providing superb support, with no real loss. You are NOT going to replace monk, nor are you going to replace monk, you are only going to make healing a lot easier. By doing only one of that, you are wasting your potential. Your build with "7 support skills + res" is equivalently as bad as build of "7 attack skills + res". Puzur
Quote:
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Your problem is this:
You don't understand what makes paragon good. Paragon is good class because he can fulfill "duality" role of being excellent damage dealer while providing superb support, with no real loss. You are NOT going to replace monk, nor are you going to replace monk, you are only going to make healing a lot easier. By doing only one of that, you are wasting your potential. Your build with "7 support skills + res" is equivalently as bad as build of "7 attack skills + res". If you consider both those builds equally bad you are the one that don´t understand what makes paragons good
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzur
If you consider both those builds equally bad you are the one that don´t understand what makes paragons good
Both of those builds are equally bad.
upier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Both of those builds are equally bad.
The sad thing is that doesn't matter.
PvE is so messed up that both builds would work! (Which is the reason why it's a tad hard explaining why something isn't good despite it working!) Puzur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Both of those builds are equally bad.
How can they be considered equally bad? With 7 attack skills and res everyone has to keep saving YOU, with one build focused on defence you save THE OTHERS?
Racthoh
You don't need 7 skills to keep the party alive. Why you would waste every single slot to do that when you could be dealing damage so stuff is dying so you don't need to heal is beyond me.
Brian the Gladiator
Wow! Stop talking about how paragons are great and how people underestimate them. Stop talking about how people are ignorant to the many uses of the paragon. Stop talking about how the reason people aren't playing them is because they think that the damage isn't good enough.
THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DON'T PLAY PARAGONS IS FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT PEOPLE THINK PARAGONS ARE OVERWELMINGLY THE MOST BORING CLASS TO PLAY IN THE GAME!!!
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DON'T PLAY PARAGONS IS FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT PEOPLE THINK PARAGONS ARE OVERWELMINGLY THE MOST BORING CLASS TO PLAY IN THE GAME!!!
Tanknspank IMO is much more boring than playing my paragon.
Brian the Gladiator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
Tanknspank IMO is much more boring than playing my paragon.
I know not everyone will agree with the majority, but again, it is the majority.Also, saying you don't like a specific build that is played on a different profession isn't countering my original statement. I'm guessing that, by saying "tanknspank" you mean a Warrior using defensive skills with the intention of attracting NPC agro and reducing the damage while others dish it. If this is in fact what you mean, then don't use that build. If you are trying to suggest that Paragons in general are more fun than Warriors, I am guessing there will be a TON OF PEOPLE ready to flame/disagree with you.
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DON'T PLAY PARAGONS IS FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT PEOPLE THINK PARAGONS ARE OVERWELMINGLY THE MOST BORING CLASS TO PLAY IN THE GAME!!!
No, it's because people are stupid. Additionally the spear is not as cool as a scythe or daggers.
Faer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwan Xi
Then Depending on what's needed I would either bring certain Skills to help the party out
Leadership: 6-12 "There's Nothing to Fear!" I'm sorry, but is there some specific reason you don't always have "There's Nothing to Fear!" on your PvE Paragon bars?
kobey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
I know not everyone will agree with the majority, but again, it is the majority.
Also, saying you don't like a specific build that is played on a different profession isn't countering my original statement. I'm guessing that, by saying "tanknspank" you mean a Warrior using defensive skills with the intention of attracting NPC agro and reducing the damage while others dish it. If this is in fact what you mean, then don't use that build. If you are trying to suggest that Paragons in general are more fun than Warriors, I am guessing there will be a TON OF PEOPLE ready to flame/disagree with you. Majority? Who cares about the majority? The majorty of GW players are weaker than the heros of the minority. Yes, it is a statement. Come flame me. Edit: Just in case you want more facts, the minority together have more titles than the majority combined, the minority's wealth is way way more than the wealth of the majority.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
No, it's because people are stupid. Additionally the spear is not as cool as a scythe or daggers.
That is completely true, when I first heard about scythes, I was like 'Wow omg! High damage weapon with a natural aoe? And I get to look like the grim reaper as well? Awesome sauce!'. Spears initially were meh to me, I was thinking them as crappy bows.
Of course I couldn't be further from the truth
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
Also, saying you don't like a specific build that is played on a different profession isn't countering my original statement.
I was merely stating my opinion (hence the IMO) having played both at some point in time. It's a terrible experience standing around doing absolutely nothing when you could have 14 in weapon to beat the hell out of stuff. If you haven't played it before, don't.
The majority of players don't care about how boring/enjoyable a class is, they care about how much money they can make with it. Paragons are terrible at soloing and they don't have any big numbered skills with an AoE effect. Even with the ability to provide a party-wide 90%~ reduction players would prefer to load up a single character with buffs and let it sponge the damage. It's the tried and true strategy of your typical PuG. You'll have a difficult time breaking that mold. As an example, at the time of posting this there are 77 people viewing the Farming section. The next closest Campfire forum is at 22. For that matter there are 56,000~ farming threads with warrior in second at 32,000~.
Terraban
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
I was merely stating my opinion (hence the IMO) having played both at some point in time. It's a terrible experience standing around doing absolutely nothing when you could have 14 in weapon to beat the hell out of stuff. If you haven't played it before, don't.
The simple minded 12 yr olds get to see a bunch of numbers and grow their e-peen, and the Warrior gets to fulfill his fantasy that he had when he made his wammo.
Really, tank/nuke/heal is good because it allows dumb players do accomplish things. The Monks? They target one person the whole time, not that is hard. The Eles? They stand back and just cast all of their skills as soon as they can, so easy that a retarded monkey that is addicted to crack could do it. The Warrior? Cast spells run in...then masturbate to your fantasy of being a tank.
Turtle222
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobey
Majority?
Who cares about the majority? The majorty of GW players are weaker than the heros of the minority. Yes, it is a statement. Come flame me. Edit: Just in case you want more facts, the minority together have more titles than the majority combined, the minority's wealth is way way more than the wealth of the majority. this man speaks the truth. listen to him
wazz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobey
Who cares about the majority?. |
And ... eh... the majority of all GW players ?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kobey
The majorty of GW players are weaker than the heros of the minority. Yes, it is a statement. Come flame me.
Edit: Just in case you want more facts, the minority together have more titles than the majority combined, the minority's wealth is way way more than the wealth of the majority. IMO: the average PuG has no synergy, because people don't feel like adapting there builds. Heros at the other hand do synergy eassier. So yeh your right, the heros of the minority are better then the average GW player. But not because the average player suck.
angmar_nite
Average player does suck... Average player doesnt wiki.
Average player doesnt use attunement on eles, soul reaping on necros, and SY on paragons. Average players whine when something doesnt go right, and they rage quit.
Liselle Morrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by angmar_nite
Average player does suck... Average player doesnt wiki.
Average player doesnt use attunement on eles, soul reaping on necros, and SY on paragons. Average players whine when something doesnt go right, and they rage quit. Wrong... "Average player" is the - it worked in pre so why not now, oh wait it's not working, hmm let me rethink this build - kind of player. What you're referring to is "I'm so leet I don't have to listen to anyone's advice -> /ignore player"
Elementer Masta
Hmm, I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I don't run a Paragon, is simply because I can't play them well. I consider it unfair to my teammates if I run a character that I am incapable of playing properly. But just because I don't play them, doesn't mean I don't like them. I always try to have a Paragon on the team.
Endemix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
The only problem with paragons is the number of people who aren't aware of what they can do.
agreed everyone says paragon is made for support only and no damage at all..and its not even close to true
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
THE REASON WHY PEOPLE DON'T PLAY PARAGONS IS FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT PEOPLE THINK PARAGONS ARE OVERWELMINGLY THE MOST BORING CLASS TO PLAY IN THE GAME!!!
I have to say I agree here.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Paragons are incredibly effective in PvE. The problem? They have one amazing build and everything else is completely overshadowed by it to the point that they aren't worth running.
Mr Pink57
^^They have one amazing build as a solo paragon, but teamed with another or many paragons we have seen what they can do (Paraspike, Singers of Woe, Yellow Way), so we are kinda stuck even though my DPS paragon build could out do that silly wammo any day who still clinges to Hundred Blades.
Also since we seem to be rejected so much by the at large community you will only find one in a group, or you get a new paragon on your team who has a terrible build filled with just atks and nothing else. pink |
