Primary Attribute - Some Changes I'd Like To See

PREFACE TO THIS POST:
TROLLS GO AWAY!
Also - I feel pretty strongly about some of the suggested changes (warriors, monks, eles). The other tweaks are just a brainstorm, and I don't feel so strongly about. Constructive ideas or constructive criticism _very_ welcome. I am updating this primary post as other good/better ideas come in that _I_ like better.


ORIGINAL POST (with additions or edits):
Primary attributes for some of the classes are NOT enough (in my opinion):
This post is organized from changes I think would be best, to some of the ones that are just pipe-dreams.


Warrior - Strength: Currently adds 1% per rank to armor penatration.
Should add:
1 % to armor penetration and 1% block percentage per point in Strength. others have suggested a 1/3 damage soak (stacking) per each point in strength.
Example: Warrior with 10 Strength would have 10% armor penetration and 10% block.

Monk - Divine Favor (this would be a biggy): Currently adds health on a variable scale. ~3 per point
Change suggested:
1 point party healing per 1 point divine favor for all monk spells. Replace the ~3 targetted divine favor bonus per point in divine favor. Helps deal with pressure situations.
Example:
Divine Favor 10 Monk casts Orison. Target recieves benefit of Orison, and whole party receives 10 health each.

Mesmer - Fast Casting - faster signet and spell activation
I don't play a lot of mesmer besides a little in PvP, so I don't know what I would change. The class already has some great variety and utility. Maybe a SLIGHT buff to skill recharge times (as a result of increasing the fast casting attribute) for the mesmer, and we'd see more of them in use. 1% faster recharge of spells and signets for each attribute point in Fast Casting.
Example:
Fast Casting 10 mesmer spells and signets would recharge 10% faster, in addition to the activation speed boost. 20 second recharge is now 18 second recharge. STACKING (stacks with MoR, and consumables like celerity).

Elementalist Energy Storage - currently increases energy pool
Actually, i don't know what I would do to Energy Storage attribute besides this. I view this as quite good. I considered armor penetration for spells, but lightning spells already address this.
After some replies perhaps this change:
1% of energy cost for spell returned after casting, in addition to energy pool increase currently in place. Another idea was 1 point lower exhaustion for every 3 points of e-storage.
Example:
Energy Storage 10 elementalist casts fireball. 1 energy (10% of spell cost), is returned.

Necro Soul Reaping -
Just remove the timer already. I haven't noticed energy issues with the timer, but a lot of people complain about it. It hurts my ears.

Assassin - Critical Strikes: Adds energy on a variable scale. Increases Critical %. (Self-Synergizing).
Should keep the energy attribute and add .5 damage per skill point on top of any hit that is critical.
Example:
Critical Strikes Rank 10 Assassin hits with his daggers, the hit is critical: 5 damage is added to the final damage (armor ignoring).

Paragon, Leadership -
Returns energy on shouts.
Would be nice to have:
Shouts return energy + Make the leadership attribute a passive "aura". When you are in the aggro bubble of a party paragon, damage reduction of 1/5 the points in leadership rounded down, and damage increase of 1/5 the points in leadership, rounded down. (Based on the highest leadership paragon in area - would not stack with other paragon auras). Also, all paragons would be immune to this effect (paragons get no benefits from it, ever, the idea is that the paragon is a leader... too many chiefs, not enough indians... you get the idea).
Example:
Leadership 10 Paragon with Aura - All party members (excluding paragon), have 2 damage soak, and +2 damage on every hit.

Ritualist- Spawning Power - Increase weapon duration and summoned creature life
I like the increased weapon duration that was added. I have not yet seen a HUGE benefit for increase spirit life. I'd like to see a little more - maybe just a hint of energy management from the attribute itself. I know there is a SKILL that does that in spawning power, but maybe giving a Rit something akin to the soul-reaping a necro had - but for spirits only. And only for THAT rit's spirits. Example: 1/5 energy return when a spirit ends for each point in spawning power. I know even that might be way to high. But it'd keep rits pumping spirits. It is called "SPAWNING" power. Not weapon power, etc etc. Or - perhaps a huge boost to the spirit life pools or armor. More like DOUBLE what is currently available.
example:
Spawning Power xx Ritualist casts a level 8 displacement that has 1000 hp and 60 armor. Maybe make displacement take more damage when something is blocked. This way the spirit isn't targetted for insta-destruction, but the protection must be "pounded" through. As it sits... Rits are interesting, but get anchored down so firmly, that they don't fit well in GvG and in a lot of the PvP builds. Sure, they are great for shrines... blah.

Finally - almost forgot this one:
Ranger - Expertise.
It's already really great imo. An interesting tweak would be to give a 1% speed boost to rangers for each point in expertise (stacking). Kind of in line with the shoot and run strategy used by many rangers. They are outdoorsmen for crying out loud! Give them legs to run! :-)
Maybe this would be too much. Just sharing "another" idea. Another idea was 1% block per each point of expertise.

Dervish, mysticism -
currently returns energy when enchantements end.
Add also that it gives a 1% chance per Mysticism Point to cause spells used against the dervish (offensively) to fail. This would keep nicely in line with Dervish class role.

Why all this? Primary attributes should be DEFINING. A lot of times, it seems like with even a slight planning, the primary attribute is not worth a lot. This has led to (creative) builds like N/Rt, N/Mo, Me/E, Mo/(e-management secondary). Which is great, but it might be nice to have unique class-boosting powers.

Some of these are just general theories, and most of this (or all), will never touch GW, because these affect the core of the game - primary classes.

Shouldn't stop me from sharing my opinion though. This idea mainly started with Warriors and Monks. I've always thought Strength was a "Meh" primary attribute... in fact besides the linked skills, strength was worthless. And divine favor... a little more healing... nice... but monks run out of energy. Even a slight hint of passive energy management would go a long way in monks ability to heal others.

Thanks for reading. What are your thoughts?

Interesting idea, and I like your reasoning that classes should have more definition by their primary attribute. The only attribute I personally would mess with is Strength (my opinion being Warriors have been nerfed a little more than necessary over the years), but it's nice to see someone who doesn't just pick his favorite class and rant nonstop about how it deserves better.

Warriors do need some primary attribute loving. Seriously. At first I thought that 2% penetration per point in strength would be good, but a 1% block really adds nicely to the idea of the warrior class, imo. Masters of armed combat, etc etc.

Monks, as a _heavy_ caster class, really need some e-management love.

If these suggestions were followed, too many primaries would relate to energy management. The purpose of the primaries, as you say, is to define a class. Having every primary do the same thing removes the very individuality you seek.

warrior and the monk is bad..bad..bad idea. it should be each str gives you +1% more dmg. and monk should stay the same, all the challange is to keep your energy up

I think most people agree that Strength is terrible. However, the proposed change doesn't sit well with me; additional blocking seems much more suited to Tactics. I'd rather see a small multiplier for adrenaline gain. It will never happen though because, you know, it might allow an axe chain to occur one hit sooner and wtfpwn the "balance."

Divine Favor is energy management. The goal as a monk is to keep other party members alive and fighting, and DF makes doing so less expensive.

Soul Reaping: /agree. The timer is among the lamest and most arbitrary functions in the game. I would even be supportive of cutting the energy gain to half the current rate in order for this to happen. Necros frequently get overfilled anyway, and the excess benefit is just wasted.

Fast Casting needs something. Better recharge doesn't sound like enough, especially at only one percent per level. In pve FC yields practically no benefit and only serves to turn young mesmers into amateur elementalists. It doesn't help that most staple mesmer skills are 10e or higher.

I don't have enough experience with the four expansion professions to warrant comment.

+1% AP is way more powerful than +1% Damage.

Well... maybe have monk divine favor be a party boosting effect. 1 point party healing per 1 point in divine favor, maybe 1.5 points, and drop the targetted 3 point divine favor boost. I'm just saying, the current boost to Divine Favor and Healing is a minimal concern for a monk primary. Yes, it boosts the points healed per energy spent ratio, but it's very minimal.

All a 1 energy passive return would do for a monk is help out during low and moderate pressure moments (casual play). During a heavy spike, or heavy pressure, the monk would still fold.


And ritualists spirits getting a REAL life boost. Shelter, displacement, and union die instantly in HM and PvP. Certainly faster than they can be cast.

I thought about the adrenaline gain buff, but it's so easy already to get 100% adrenaline gain boost and it caps at 100% in the current game mechanics. The block would only help warriors out versus things coming at them (swords, arrows, projectile spells) - a real boost to warriors. Makes them that much tougher, and certainly makes strength worth taking. Unless your build revolves around a strength skill, there is almost NO reason to take strength. A lot of great PvP and PvE uses Tactics, Weapon Skill, and secondary class branch. Strength is often ignored, and for a good reason. You can get WAY more utility and damage out of a secondary branch specced at 10 than you can get out of strength.

In GvG, a block percentage would help - it casts a "random" element into the called spikes. Let's spike that warrior, 2 1 now. Enchants stripped, Gale, Lightning Orb, Bulls Strike, Eviscerate, etc. But, Evisc was blocked. Warrior is still up. Monk heals. Battle goes on.

You are entitled to that wrong opinion of course. :-)

And sure, I could get better at the game. I'm an "average" player. I've cleared FoW (slowly). I've beat some areas of DoA (not mallyx). I've led a guild that was in top 1000 GvG (but not top 500). No, I'm not bragging, because all those claims aren't "great". I'm just saying, I've seen a little of everything.

I'm not pushing for a power creep. I just see some of the primary classes as passing fair.

The real discovery for me was that a N/Mo was FAR superior as a prot monk than a Mo/E or whatever else in PvE, and an E/Mo can be superior as a prot monk in PvP (in the right situations). And a Ele made a far better tank than a warrior (not in all instances, but in many). And mesmers appear to be quite rare in general.

And why SHOULDN'T assassins have a slight tweak to critical damage? They are assassins, they are supposed to be placing the dagger in the exact right spot and delivering a "killing" blow.

My suggestions are all pretty much in line - RP wise, and some would need some tweaking, but they aren't too imba.

The tweak to DF for monk that I like the most is to reduce the bonus, but make it party wide. Maybe that WOULD be too imba for PvP. But the obvious answer is that a monk would get increasing gains for a party in trouble. But smallish gains when just healing a spike using WoH. And, this would replace the void of useful party heals (of which I don't know any at this point in GW).

It's a bad idea IMO... DF doesn't need any changes, it's fine. But 10 pv more is... Well, nothing. Wanding someone does more damage...

Or you could stop assuming that every suggestion comes down to being made because the poster(s) are bad at the game.

Until you stop assuming this, I will call you (and others) on it wherever I see it, because it's a flawed and terribly perjorative assumption to make.

there are, of course, other Profession considerations: Armor, possible 16 in Attributes, and access to the Primary skillset.

The question is, does a Warriors armor and possible 16 in weapons outweigh the horrible Strength Primary "bonus."

I don't think Paragons need a buff, either!

Elementalists are actually quite bad. Ensign commented on this awhile back: having a large energy pool does little good in a protracted fight as energy goes low. Which is why Ele's always need enchantments to keep up with their huge energy losses. I don't know the answer either, I just know I'd rather have the Necro's ability to regain energy than a larger pool to start with.

I will defend my position:
Sure... 10 is "meh". But - assume a party is in heavy degen, or just took an AoE "hit". Now - that 10 becomes a total of 80 health for 0 extra energy. As opposed to the 33 targetted health Divine favor would currently give for 0 extra energy.
To expand:
Imagine 2 monks - 1 heal 1 prot.
prot monk has 13 DF
Heal monk has 13 DF
Heavy combat - both are spamming.
Prot monk drops out a RoF, a guardian, and an SoD (very quickly). Party was just healed for 39 health. Meanwhile, heal monk infused, and glimmered 2 targets. Another 39 party health for everyone. So for 0 extra energy, 8 people received 78 health each. Now do you see how it could even be claimed as IMBA for being too powerful?

Meanwhile the Prot monk spent 25 energy in 2-3 seconds, and the heal monk spent 20 energy in 2-3 seconds. And - provided a HUGE amount of healing and protection during that time.

Maybe return spellcost energy at a rate of 1% per skill rank in Energy Storage. (Decimal Rounded Down).
10 E-storage for a 10e spell = 1 energy return. 14 E-Storage for a 15e spell = 2 energy returned. 15 E-storage for a 20 energy spell = 3 energy returned. 16 E-storage and 25e spell = 4 energy returned.
Probably not the best, but it's a start.

I'd agree with that, despite the fact that (when running my ele)I never have an energy pool of less than 92 I still have to devote two slots to e-management (GoLE and an attune) and also tend to use one more energy regain (such as Glowing Gaze), stick a rez sig on there and we have four offense / defense skills at best, (slot 7 for me is variable GoEP or whatever PVE skill is useful). E Storage as a primary does not help that much in a sustained fight. I rarely run out of energy, whether I'm running air or fire, but that's down to e-management rather than the size of my energy pool.

My necro on the other hand (even with the timer) hardly even needs to bother with e-management, I carry SoLS but rarely use it, and use a +15 -1 offhand. I don't MM though, mostly run curses, but I still rarely run low on energy.

hmm, when i could change something, m primaries would do something, that changes the issues of 2ndaries being stronger than primaries, i mean with ttat, that an other primary with its secondary can be stronger, than the primary of the others primary secondary lol wtf write i here, dunno even if thats correct XD rofl..shit on it ^^

to my examples:

Strength: 1,5% Armor penetration per Point (16->24%*25%*)
Also 1 Damage Reduction of physical Attacks per 3 Points (15->5DR of physical Attacks)
Reason: You have more Strength, so also you can resist better Attacks.

Divine Favor: 3,2 more Heal per Point.
Every 2 Points additional +1,25% Morale will be given to a ressucrected party Member, when the Monk ressurects one (R16->10% Morale to the ressurected Character.
Just slow down this stupid DP System ...

Energy Storage:
beneath the additional + of Max Energy:
Energy Cost of Spells should be reduced by 4% per point also... like Ranger Primary for Bow Attacks,Spirits and Traps, this would reduce Energy Cost for Ele Spells

Soul Reaping:
beneath the Energy Gain...(Take away dumb time trigger)
Reduces every point the Recharge time of Summon Skills by 2%

Fast Casting:
Beneath the quicker usage of Signets and quicker reloading of Skills
this attribute should give per point 1% chance of Auto Reloading Spells.
(R16-> 16% Chance of automatically reloading Skills, after usage)

Mysticism:
Beneath Healing/Energy, when Enchants end,i think ,this attribute should receive Damage Reflection of Spells...
Also every point, 1% of Magic Spells Damage gets reflected to the Damage Dealer, while being enchanted.

Leadership:
beneath Energy Healing, this Attribute should increase duration of Shouts ect. and by 2% per point.
(R16->+32*33%* longer Duration of any Shout/Echo ect. Skills)

Spawning Power
Should increase bigger the max HP of Ghosts per point...
Every 3 Points, Ghosts should become more and more able to move...
Every 3 Points, Ghosts can move 25% quicker, ghosts should be invulnerable to normal physical attacks and ghosts CAN'T burn ... get logic into this game, also like pets have corpses, when they die >.>
However, making ghosts moveable shold be the biggest change

Example:
R0 > No Movement
R3 > 25% Movement of normal Speed (Ghost loses his chains)
R6 > 50% Movement of normal Speed
R9 > 75% Movement of normal Speed
R12 > same speed as Players
R15 > 125% movement speed

Criticals:
Beneath Energy Gain through criticals ...
Every point should increase the chance by 1% for Double Attacks or for avoiding self critical hits, hwich get then blocked, when they would be otherwise a critical hit

and the least one ..

the rangers primary:

beneath the e cost reduction of bow skills, traps, preparations ect., this Skill should increase the range of Bows by 1% per point and reduce also the chance to get interrupted every 3 points by 5%
(R16-> 16% longer range with bows)
(R16->25% lesser chance to get interrupted through attacks)

that would be my way to may the primaris look more special to their classes, improving the strength more of primaries over secondaries, maybe in resulting, that certain other primaries with a secondary can't be stronger, than a player with the primary of what player X has as secondary ...

Wannabes may not be stronger, than real ones (primaries)...

Spirits need immunity to physicals at the very least. They're incorporeal. They also need movement or a faster cast time and much faster recharge time.

And Spawning Power needs an effect that actually does something besides add a few seconds duration to weapon spells or a few extra hp for spirits.

leadership
sr
expertise

buff already broken primary atts ..

it's fine

strenght is bad yes, but it has got the most skills in it = balance

As someone has already not-so-mildly pointed out, this would lead to a power creep, which seems to be at odds with what they are trying to do with skills in general. Which is at odds with the PvE only skills.

Needless to say, things are rather confusing right now in general.

I love the ritualist, dervish, and ranger suggestion.

I still like my warrior and monk tweaks better.

IMO the suggested Ele buff would be tooooo much

Warriors primary is _broken_ imo.

Monks primary is... negligible. The only reason you see monks still in PvP is because of the runes you can put on monk armor so healing and prot gets up to 13+. Otherwise, you'd see E/Mo as the new healer or N/Mo (which you already do see sometimes). As it is - most good prot monks RELY on their secondary to stay in the fight.

Ele primary (as others have pointed out) becomes quickly worthless.

Dervs primary maybe SHOULD include a 1% per skill point to cause spells against derv to fail. Maybe then there would be a derv in group PvP besides Melandru.

I'm not talking about game-wrecking stuff here. I'm talking about fine-tuning the primary.

Warrior Strength = Broken
Divine Favor = Completely Replaceable
Energy Storage = Becomes worthless after a few minutes of fighting, unless the player can manage his energy well (GoLE, Attunes, Etc).

And lack of mesmers... Mesmer... Mesmer? has anyone seen Ferris Mesmer today?

Warrior: I would change the % to block to damage reduction (or minus damage instead). I think that fits in better than blocking, which I would put on Expertise.

Elementalist: Sounds good.

Assassin: Sounds good.

Ranger: As said, I would put blocking on here, in place of the speed boost. It goes in line more with surviving and Expertise, and they seem to lack good blocking skills that don't have a lot of downtime.

The other ideas I generally don't like, or they shouldn't be touched (excluding Soul Reaping which wasn't really given any discussion). Otherwise, I like the idea of primary attributes being more defining

Eh, I still like the idea of making Energy Storage cause 1 point less exhaustion for every 3 ranks in ES. The other Primaries are fine as they are, IMO.

Except Ritualist's Spawning Power, which might as well be No Inherent Effect.

Updated main post to include this. Also a nice idea.

the only primary i feel is kinda left out is the warrior. i know im a bit biased, but it would feel so nice to physically see and know how much extra damage im doing with my primary sometimes.

i'd like to see something like..

for every point in str, your weapon does 1% more damage, and 1% armor penatration. for every 3 points in str, you take 1 less damage while attacking.

idk... just an idea lol...

and Holy trolls way too much... nuff said.

>.> I expect flames but

1 problem is that powers up Non Dagger assassin's

Scythe sins would then get +6 damage...Armor ignoring! at 12 crit.. but scythe sin's dont just run 12 crit from what i've seen

so +7 damage from a scythe sin

Armor Ignoring, Scythe skills also add damage.
Scythe has highest maximum damage..

So lets see

12 scythe mastery, enables 100% of scythe damage I think.

So a crit would be 42x2 (is it?) 84 damage or so vs 60 armor I believe + 7 thats 91 damage a critical hit, + skills a scythe assassin will do 100 damage with skills, a skill that inflicts deep wound that gives atless +9 damage = 200 damage flat.
then the 91 damage hits >.> ...those hits are aoe too (in pve)

My math has to be wrong (because I don't have a full grasp on this stuff)... 13 Scythe (though a sin can't ge that) is 102% of maximum damage?

regardless....seems like your trying to make Non Dagger sins own...

Its great if you make it dagger only, but Moriz and Mokone wouldn't like it.

and warrior strength

+5 hp for every 4 ranks in Strength

= +20 hp total

Spawning Power is just fine. There are a lot of linked skills, many of which are pretty good, and it has two inherent effects (now) which alone aren't much, but both enhance the main strengths of the Rit. Strength for the Warrior has a worse inherent effect than either of the effects SP has, but more useful linked skills (plus the added bonus of extra armor with Sentinels at 13 Str). Overall, I'd say they're balanced with each other, and with the other primaries.

I would have agreed with Fast Casting, but with the added bonus to Signet activation speed, it's pretty powerful now.

Critical Strikes, Expertise, and Leadership are all excellent e-management, and work perfectly for the classes tied to them. Don't see any reason to buff these at all.

Divine Favor and Soul Reaping are both broken, and have been since release. This is due to how they work, rather than any kind of over- or under-powered use. They are balanced, they just need a re-working that they will likely never see.

Mysticism is somewhere between Leadership and Strength. The e-management it provides is really limited, but it has that secondary, equally limited effect of health gain. The best part is the linked skills, like Strength. Because of that, it's balanced, and fine as-is.

So, I think that compared to all the primaries and how they balance out, ES is the worst. It could stand to have either a buff to the inherent effect, or some more useful linked skills. Either way, I think it needs a buff.

Energy Storage is fine. Look at how valued +5 energy mods are. Look at how much more popular wand/focus or spear/focus is over a staff, despite providing only +2 energy. I'd say that a primary attribute that makes your GoLE better AND provides +30ish energy is well worth it. As good as Soul Reaping, Divine Favor, or Expertise? Probably not. But that doesn't make it bad.

Agreed, but I didn't say it was bad, just the worst of all the primaries. I'm only asking for a slight buff to balance it with the other primaries, not anything severe. Like I said, even a few more useful skills would be nice. Just something. It feels like people only choose Elementalist for the increase in power with runes, than for the primary. Considering you can get a high energy pool by simply getting some +15/-1 equipment. Sure, you could slap that on an Ele for an insanely high energy pool, but you don't need an insanely high energy pool, even for Ele skills.

Wow this is just like cooking
Almost everyone is making a different recipe
for Imbalance.

Adding an innate block% or spell failure% to any primary attribute would be perhaps one of the worst updates.

Every other source of block can be removed by ending a stance or removing an enchantment etc. But this would be unremovable, almost forcing you to use one of the very few "target foe cannot block" skills.

Spell Failures would also fall under the same area. Its fine to have your spells not connect because of interrupts, spell breaker etc but to have your spells fail because the computer came up with a number would be insanely frustrating.

42x1.4142 (sqrt2)=59.4

A critical hit is only +20 damage rating.

Warriors primary(str) is extremely bad. Its undoubtedly the worse primary. Why? It only works on attack skills. But warriors can do enough damage and can soak up enough damage with armor already.

They're also very good skills in strength such as Rush, Bullstrike, Enraging Charge and Flail.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php

Because I'm lazy, I'm going to assume that your average warrior is running around with 10 strength.

From the table in the above link :
AL100 -> Damage reduced to 50% of total
AL90 -> Damage reduced to 59.5% of total

Essentially that 10% armour penetration is giving you a ~20% damage bonus across the board. It's *really* not as underpowered as you guys seem to think.

Timer doesnt matter much for the necro anyway, and the second idea only helps MMs..

how about some HP gained per rank in soul reaping?

Don't want to seem mean, but you kind of sound like a noob that doesn't know how to play. All the primarys are completely fine the way they are, and there's things called skills that follow the primary attribute that help "block" attacks, that help heal the party, that help give energy ect ect.

Guild wars would really suck if monks got even more lame with more healing, especially Divine favor with LoD or Aegis to the whole team, without any skills involved.

Do not presume to interpret my posts for me and for others. You aren't smart enough.

Claiming that my suggestion for Divine Favor is a "LoD" and "Aegis" blows it way out of proportion. And EVERYONE who is reading this thread knows there are skills that provide all the things you describe and have been suggested. So basically, you have just regurgitated what we all know. This thread is about primary attributes getting a non-overpowering but UNIQUE buff. ESPECIALLY where it is needed. (Warrior, Ele, Monk). Quit trying to sound smart by hyjacking a thread. You are wasting valuable oxygen that should be used for the other thinking primates who are reading this thread (stop typing, it makes you breath harder).


And while I am responding - to another previous post:

Claiming that a primary attribute linked to block (warrior) or spell-immunity (dervish) is game imbalancing. As much as a 16% block is hardly game-breaking (for warriors only), and same as a 16% spell immunity for dervish (not that dervs primary needs anything to my knowledge). Realistic PvP numbers would be 10-14% block on warrior (or damage reduction from others suggestions). More than enough to throw some doubt into the spike. You'd see more spiking VARIETY - pressure, hexs, armor ignoring spells, etc. It just would add a unique ability to the warrior class. And - there are spells which completely remove block (necro and assassin come to mind). And there are unblockable skills. Etc Etc.

To my knowledge, this only affects base weapon damage. The game mechanics for damage can be looked up at any of the wiki sites - but it goes like this:
Long calculation applied to base weapon damage and then add skill damage on top.

Net result?
WARNING - IF YOU ARE A PERFECTIONIST - PLEASE REPOST THE ACTUAL NUMBERS - THIS IS GENERALIZED DAMAGE CALC:
Sword warrior versus a level 60 target on his hardest hit (critical) does 22*sqrt(2) (about 1.44)... let's just say it's 30 (don't want to pull up calculator). 30 damage, and he has 10% armor penetration - so MAYBE his hit gets boosted up to 32 or maybe as much as 34 damage. Add weapon skill damage on top of that (+flat amount based on skill points). Versus a warrior, with 100 armor level, the sword damage is cut in half right? Boom - Base sword damage on a critical is now 15 or so. Armor penetration? 2 or 3 points more? Maybe? Point being - there's no point in taking Strength besides meeting insignia reqs or for a specific skillset.

A critical is max damage multiplied by sqrt(2) or roughly 1.44 (I think).

Somethings to consider = scythes and bows attack more slowly.

Speccing in non-daggers also removes some of the synergy - and is not "Viable" in team pvp (it's more of a gimmick). But it's fun for PvE. In RA, whatever... that's all random anyhow. But you won't see people mobbing up like idiots in PvP. If you do, they deserve to get scythed and AoE nuked.

Point being, it's not a total boost to non-dagger sins. It's just an overall sin boost. And possibly unneeded - especially with way of the master. Critical already is quite nice, and sins get a DUAL benefit from their primary - energy and increased damage. Warriors get... oh yeah. Slight damage boost. Not as much.

Main reason I posted tweak to sin is because i play one, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see a slight boost. Not needed, but hey, I'll claim a little selfishness in my thread... :-)

So every single Warrior creature in PvE then gets 10-14% block chance? Do you want every single team to bring Rigor Mortis? Or do you want every single warrior, ranger, paragon, dervish and assassin to just leave the game?

Retarded idea.


Strength being a shitty primary attribute is balanced because there are plenty of great skills in the Strength line. 99% of Warriors in GvG bring one of Sprint, Bull's Strike or Rush

And many of them spend no points on strength at all... (no need).

Rush is a cancel stance and to help catch a target, bulls strike is a snare/KD.

Strength = May as well be renamed No Attribute.

That's the point I'm getting at.

Maybe the block % is too high... maybe it's unneeded, maybe it should be a damage soak like others are saying. I do not disagree with all that.

But just saying that the passive effect of the Strength attribute is OK - On THAT point... I will disagree with you.

Also, in PvE... if I remember correctly, MOST of the damage that kills stuff is not the direct physical stuff. It's a blend - interupts with damage, spells, AoE, indirect (splinter weapon). Etc etc etc.

My suggestion may be a little "out of the box". But the idea that Strength is Broken... that's probably right "in the box" of standard thinking.