I've always had a stumbling block over the low-end damage limit of 6 for the axe, and tend to be against it for that, and other reasons. But what do you all think? We look forward to all input. Thanks.
Swords or Axes?
Marksmann
In discussions amongst guild-mates, we've had an ongoing discussion about whether a warrior is a more effective damage dealer with a sword or with an axe, leaving the hammer out of consideration, since it's a double-handed weapon, (and we just prefer the 'balanced look' of a warrior with both hands filled with separate items.) We've tried to take into account the differing damage rating range of the respective weapons, and all of the available permutations & combinations of mods, skills, spells, speed of attack, heroes/hentchies, and such, and have never been able to resolve the issue to any real extent. I've always had a stumbling block over the low-end damage limit of 6 for the axe, and tend to be against it for that, and other reasons. But what do you all think? We look forward to all input. Thanks.
I've always had a stumbling block over the low-end damage limit of 6 for the axe, and tend to be against it for that, and other reasons. But what do you all think? We look forward to all input. Thanks.
A11Eur0
Sword attack skills are low-adrenaline and are pretty consistent with damage dealt. Axes have unconditional deep wound which helps immensely, but high adrenaline skills across the board(barring Cleave). With adrenaline-boosting skills and furious axe mod, an axe would have the same chain-ability as a sword. Enraging charge, For Great Justice! and stuff really help an axe build, and crits on an axe are insane.
arcady
I think its largely a playstyle thing.
Sword is good for DPS - but less so for tanking. On my sword I run around chasing mobs and doing a lot of quick strikes.
Hammer seems to be good for tanking, given all the knockdowns - if they refuse to aggro you, you can still hold them. The slow attack speed makes it less of a DPS item. A blocked or otherwise wasted attack 'costs more' than a block or wasted attack on a sword.
Axe I have no feel for, having never used it, but I suspect is has a niche of its own as well. If I ever get a max stat axe drop I'll test it on a hero.
Which is what I recommend - outfit Koss with each option and see how he performs.
Sword is good for DPS - but less so for tanking. On my sword I run around chasing mobs and doing a lot of quick strikes.
Hammer seems to be good for tanking, given all the knockdowns - if they refuse to aggro you, you can still hold them. The slow attack speed makes it less of a DPS item. A blocked or otherwise wasted attack 'costs more' than a block or wasted attack on a sword.
Axe I have no feel for, having never used it, but I suspect is has a niche of its own as well. If I ever get a max stat axe drop I'll test it on a hero.
Which is what I recommend - outfit Koss with each option and see how he performs.
thor thunder
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marksmann
In discussions amongst guild-mates, we've had an ongoing discussion about whether a warrior is a more effective damage dealer with a sword or with an axe, leaving the hammer out of consideration, since it's a double-handed weapon, (and we just prefer the 'balanced look' of a warrior with both hands filled with separate items.) We've tried to take into account the differing damage rating range of the respective weapons, and all of the available permutations & combinations of mods, skills, spells, speed of attack, heroes/hentchies, and such, and have never been able to resolve the issue to any real extent.
I've always had a stumbling block over the low-end damage limit of 6 for the axe, and tend to be against it for that, and other reasons. But what do you all think? We look forward to all input. Thanks. |
pwnd.
ali89k
I use both,
Sword - PVE (fair enough its good for pressure On PVP.)
AXE - PVP (the critical hit cant be ignored and is a must have :P)
Its pretty easy to switch aswell just mod 2 helmets 1 for each attribute. Save your sword and axe skills to a template.
Sword - PVE (fair enough its good for pressure On PVP.)
AXE - PVP (the critical hit cant be ignored and is a must have :P)
Its pretty easy to switch aswell just mod 2 helmets 1 for each attribute. Save your sword and axe skills to a template.
azizul1975
well, i think it depends. you just have to choose the right skill. i dont know, but i think if you use :
axe, normally choose [skill]dismember[/skill][skill]cleave[/skill].
sword normally choose [skill]"for great justice!"[/skill][skill]dragon slash[/skill].
of course it all depends whether u have access to certain skills.
axe, normally choose [skill]dismember[/skill][skill]cleave[/skill].
sword normally choose [skill]"for great justice!"[/skill][skill]dragon slash[/skill].
of course it all depends whether u have access to certain skills.
Savio
@Marksmann: Sword Or Axe...?
So what are Dragon Slash and Final Thrust? Swords just happen to have a much easier way of gaining adrenaline.
You really can't beat Dslash chains.
1. Tanking is stupid.
2. Brawling Headbutt + Dragon Slash.
3. Despite a hammer's slow attack speed, it holds its own on DPS vs swords and axes.
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
Sword attack skills are low-adrenaline and are pretty consistent with damage dealt.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcady
Sword is good for DPS - but less so for tanking. On my sword I run around chasing mobs and doing a lot of quick strikes.
Hammer seems to be good for tanking, given all the knockdowns - if they refuse to aggro you, you can still hold them. The slow attack speed makes it less of a DPS item. A blocked or otherwise wasted attack 'costs more' than a block or wasted attack on a sword. Axe I have no feel for, having never used it, but I suspect is has a niche of its own as well. If I ever get a max stat axe drop I'll test it on a hero. |
2. Brawling Headbutt + Dragon Slash.
3. Despite a hammer's slow attack speed, it holds its own on DPS vs swords and axes.
DreamRunner
Saying swords uses low adrenalin is wrong. Sun and Moon slash, final thrust, dragon slash.
Swords and Axes just act differently, there isn't any better and both have its purposes with different outcomes. The big thing about each is that for an adrenalin push, axes use 2 skills, while swords uses 3. Rending Touch axe + crip shot is ownage, while Crip slash + SA assassin is excellent too.
Swords and Axes just act differently, there isn't any better and both have its purposes with different outcomes. The big thing about each is that for an adrenalin push, axes use 2 skills, while swords uses 3. Rending Touch axe + crip shot is ownage, while Crip slash + SA assassin is excellent too.
Crom The Pale
I find that sword is more a presure weapon, bleeding is a very effective tool.
Axe is more a large spike dmg dealer, aoe weapon dmg.
In PvE if your facing a map where mobs like to bunch up then Axe is the best bet with [skill]Triple Chop[/skill] and [skill]Cyclone Axe[/skill] especially when combined with [skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill]
If you are facing more solo foes or bosses then sword can be extremely effective with [skill]Sever Artery[/skill] + [skill]Gash[/skill] and the very popular [skill]Dragon Slash[/skill]
Axe is more a large spike dmg dealer, aoe weapon dmg.
In PvE if your facing a map where mobs like to bunch up then Axe is the best bet with [skill]Triple Chop[/skill] and [skill]Cyclone Axe[/skill] especially when combined with [skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill]
If you are facing more solo foes or bosses then sword can be extremely effective with [skill]Sever Artery[/skill] + [skill]Gash[/skill] and the very popular [skill]Dragon Slash[/skill]
terminus123
I have a question, how does an axe get the spike dmge other than deep wound?
since even with like +45 dmge does it always critical at the same time skill is activated?
is it true from rumors that axes do more dps, at 15 axe mastery attribute and higher than swords?
since even with like +45 dmge does it always critical at the same time skill is activated?
is it true from rumors that axes do more dps, at 15 axe mastery attribute and higher than swords?
Quaker
I think, as Arcady says, it's largely a playstyle thing. You're gonna find your fanboys on either side that say such&such skill + such&such skill "pwns" - blah, blah, blah.
In the long run, and in the context of a group of (8) players, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference which weapon type you use. I matters more which skills/spells you use, how effectively you use them, and how effective they are in the given situation.
In the long run, and in the context of a group of (8) players, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference which weapon type you use. I matters more which skills/spells you use, how effectively you use them, and how effective they are in the given situation.
DreamRunner
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Originally Posted by terminus123
I have a question, how does an axe get the spike dmge other than deep wound?
since even with like +45 dmge does it always critical at the same time skill is activated? is it true from rumors that axes do more dps, at 15 axe mastery attribute and higher than swords? |
[skill]Sever Artery[/skill] [skill]Gash[/skill] [skill]Final Thrust[/skill] or [skill]Sun and Moon Slash[/skill]
While Axes use 2. Its the evis + exec strike thats the massive spike.
[skill]eviscerate[/skill] [skill]executioner's strike[/skill]
You can use [skill]Dismember[/skill] instead of evis though.
Axes do have an higher rate of crit than an sword. A sword has a very low crit rate and while a large number people(especially in PvE) put a sundering mod on a sword, I'm against it totally.
Savio
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Originally Posted by terminus123
I have a question, how does an axe get the spike dmge other than deep wound?
since even with like +45 dmge does it always critical at the same time skill is activated? is it true from rumors that axes do more dps, at 15 axe mastery attribute and higher than swords? |
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Originally Posted by DreamRunner
Axes do have an higher rate of crit than an sword. A sword has a very low crit rate
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Crom The Pale
The skill [skill]Decapitate[/skill] is the best example of a spike skill from axe mastery vs [skill]Dragon Slash[/skill] or [skill]Final Thrust[/skill] from sword mastery.
While the sword will allow you to chain several skills together for a large amount of damage, the axe permits a single attack to deal a large amount of dmg.
When in a party you should determine wheather your role is to deal constant dmg on a target while other interupt or kill secondary targets. Often in PvE spreading out dmg will limit the healing of the AI allowing you to kill targets other than the monks first. If your party is focused on spike dmg, hitting one target all at the same time to instantly kill it(an absolute in most PvP) then you want a single skill that will maximize this damage in the shortest time frame. ie one hit vs 6.
While the sword will allow you to chain several skills together for a large amount of damage, the axe permits a single attack to deal a large amount of dmg.
When in a party you should determine wheather your role is to deal constant dmg on a target while other interupt or kill secondary targets. Often in PvE spreading out dmg will limit the healing of the AI allowing you to kill targets other than the monks first. If your party is focused on spike dmg, hitting one target all at the same time to instantly kill it(an absolute in most PvP) then you want a single skill that will maximize this damage in the shortest time frame. ie one hit vs 6.
Mist Walker Skarloc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by terminus123
I have a question, how does an axe get the spike dmge other than deep wound?
since even with like +45 dmge does it always critical at the same time skill is activated? is it true from rumors that axes do more dps, at 15 axe mastery attribute and higher than swords? |
terminus123
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Originally Posted by Mist Walker Skarloc
It's at 11 weapon mastery, but yes. But just the base weapon damage itself is not enough to determine which is 'better'. You need to look at the skills. Swords are best for sustained DPS, using FGJ! and D-Slash. Axes spike well with things like Eviscerate->Executioner's. In my opinion, swords are better in PvE thanks to their high DPS, whereas axes are better in PvP due to their ability to spike well.
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I might just start axes if this is true
iridescentfyre
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Originally Posted by terminus123
o cool thanks, was this proven through calculations or Master of Damage or both?
I might just start axes if this is true |
Axes are better for spiking because they open up with Eviscerate, which is +30-some damage and deep wound, then with Executioner's Strike less than a second later. Swords cannot spike, they don't have anything that mirrors what Eviscerate does. They have Final Thrust, which comes at the end of a chain of attacks. By the time you get to Final Thrust, the target has Protective Spirit, and no spike is achieved.
In a PvE setting, Swords fare better than Axes for dps. In PvP, Axes out-spike a Sword.
Any statement that Axes crit more frequently than Swords is based on nothing. Weapon mastery determines critical hit rates. Axes crit with a bit higher damage than Swords because they have 28 max damage instead of 22. That's the only difference. And btw, any hit on a fleeing foe is a critical.
DreamRunner
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Originally Posted by Savio
That's completely wrong, they have the same crit rate at the same level of weapon mastery.
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Marksmann
This has been an excellent discussion on the strengths/weaknesses of the two single handed warrior weapons. Thanks everyone. Some of the suggested skills & combos hadn't been considered by my guildmates and me, and so we will be working with some of them. Another thought....how would the AOE skills of the the respective weaps, such as Triple Chop and Hundred Blades, compare in actual usage, especially taking into account they're abilities to recharge adrenaline skills almost instantly?
Some of the suggested skills & combos hadn't been considered by my guildmates and me, and so we will be working with some of them. Another thought....how would the AOE skills of the the respective weaps, such as Triple Chop and Hundred Blades, compare in actual usage, especially taking into account they're abilities to recharge adrenaline skills almost instantly?
Cargan
to be honest the difference in damage is not very noticable. for an outright damaging build just pack symbolic strike, battle rage and 6 signets. +60 damage with every second hit far outweighs the damage of any of the skills for axe or sword although it does limit your build and remove any need for energy, but it's a nice gimmick.
I use sword, axe and hammer depending on where I'm going. I have a preference for sword over axe, but that's just preference which swayed that way because I prefer a lot of sword skins :P
When using axes I tend to use warriors endurance as the elite and use a lot of attacks which require energy. The high adrenaline cost for most skills is not appealing, and I can deal a load of damage by spamming 5e attack skills like furious axe and power attack.
When using swords I use mostly adrenaline based builds. Theres a nicer range of low and high cost adrenaline skills allowing you use use the lower ones to add pressure and force down the health of an enemy while charging adrenaline, then by the time the higher cost skills are charged it's easy to finish them off.
Although it's off-topic, Hammers are just fun. I get a kick out of knocking things down. The best way to stop yourself taking damage is to not let the enemy attack
I use sword, axe and hammer depending on where I'm going. I have a preference for sword over axe, but that's just preference which swayed that way because I prefer a lot of sword skins :P
When using axes I tend to use warriors endurance as the elite and use a lot of attacks which require energy. The high adrenaline cost for most skills is not appealing, and I can deal a load of damage by spamming 5e attack skills like furious axe and power attack.
When using swords I use mostly adrenaline based builds. Theres a nicer range of low and high cost adrenaline skills allowing you use use the lower ones to add pressure and force down the health of an enemy while charging adrenaline, then by the time the higher cost skills are charged it's easy to finish them off.
Although it's off-topic, Hammers are just fun. I get a kick out of knocking things down. The best way to stop yourself taking damage is to not let the enemy attack
ax mastery
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Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
Axes crit with a bit higher damage than Swords because they have 28 max damage instead of 22.
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terminus123
hey does armour lvl also judge how much critical can be hit on foe?
I think swords dor more dmge on higher armour lvl (85-100+) and axe on lower armour lvls (85-60-)
I think swords dor more dmge on higher armour lvl (85-100+) and axe on lower armour lvls (85-60-)
Guns Up!
It's really apples and oranges
Savio
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Originally Posted by ax mastery
This is misleading. After factoring in customization, and mods, an axe at 14 mastery crits for 59 damage. A sword crits for something like 45ish? That is an enormous difference.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by terminus123
I think swords dor more dmge on higher armour lvl (85-100+) and axe on lower armour lvls (85-60-)
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AaronSwitchblade
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Originally Posted by Marksmann
This has been an excellent discussion on the strengths/weaknesses of the two single handed warrior weapons. Thanks everyone.
Some of the suggested skills & combos hadn't been considered by my guildmates and me, and so we will be working with some of them. Another thought....how would the AOE skills of the the respective weaps, such as Triple Chop and Hundred Blades, compare in actual usage, especially taking into account they're abilities to recharge adrenaline skills almost instantly? |
So I guess that the final result is that we're not entirely sure which has more, however, if one has more than the other, the amount will be negligible provided you know how to use either correctly?
Coloneh
its all situational.
axe- multiple targets with triple chop, cyclone and whirlwind
sword- single target with Dslash, brawling headbutt, steelfang slash
simple
axe- multiple targets with triple chop, cyclone and whirlwind
sword- single target with Dslash, brawling headbutt, steelfang slash
simple
杀TanK杀
Axe..
Because of reasons already pointed out
Because of reasons already pointed out
DreamRunner
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Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
Any statement that Axes crit more frequently than Swords is based on nothing.
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boxterduke
I'm gonna leave all the number crunshing to others and just say what I noticed from my experience.
I used to just use swords before (personal preference) although I had axes but never used them
One guy in a guild I was in was just an axe user and he convinced me one day to use axes and I noticed the increased damage they do. So I started using axes more that swords, but I still use swords none the less.
Its all on your preference, sever artery + gash is still one of the best combos there, have someone with you with epidemic or fevered dreams and you got mobs that are bleeding and deep wounded.
I play mostly PvE and I find hammers to be not as useful since by the time you get your adrenaline or knockdown a monster, it will be dead from your h/h team, so all the adrenaline build up or knockdown went to waste. I still use them once in a while though.
I used to just use swords before (personal preference) although I had axes but never used them
One guy in a guild I was in was just an axe user and he convinced me one day to use axes and I noticed the increased damage they do. So I started using axes more that swords, but I still use swords none the less.
Its all on your preference, sever artery + gash is still one of the best combos there, have someone with you with epidemic or fevered dreams and you got mobs that are bleeding and deep wounded.
I play mostly PvE and I find hammers to be not as useful since by the time you get your adrenaline or knockdown a monster, it will be dead from your h/h team, so all the adrenaline build up or knockdown went to waste. I still use them once in a while though.