Title Wars,Elitist Attitudes,and Addiction

Seeking info on a fansite can yield some data that then may be used for a pilot study to examine the effects of time based achievement awards and addiction in social online games.

For people dismissing this all together, online gaming addiction is a key topic of study now in social psychology and the psychology of virtual societies online.

My only problem is the titles which offer up advantages for maxing them out. Some of the in-game bonuses on the GW:EN skillset are getting much to big for a game that heralds itself on being about skill instead of time spent.

As for addiction and whatnot, if you have a problem, uninstall.

Oh look, another needless flame on someone who is just trying to ask a question. I was wondering when i would see one of these for this thread.

That might explain the size of my paycheck... must have DP on it...

It's being dismissed because it's a load of crap. He's a healthcare professional? So he has all sorts of eduction, right? Yet, at no point in his post does he manage to properly use an apostrophe. Most of the grammar is completely b0rked, the question isn't really a question, and at no point is any part of the explanation suggestive that any thought what-so-ever came into contact with this post.

He's not a healthcare professional, he's not researching anything. He's just a troll trying to pick a fight over titles.

LoL, I like how you compare a mechanic introduced a year ago with a game released in September.

During the IWAY craze I would create new accounts, raise their rank to 10 and sell them for 500 bucks a pop.

Well, the OP failed to ask a question. What does s/he want to know? What to put in the Pro column of Titles to balance out the Cons?

Seems like a strange question to ask. Why should there be Pros and Cons for Titles? You may as well ask What are the Pros and Cons for Polymock? Or chest-running? There aren't any! People do it because it's fun, not because it has more Pros than Cons or vice versa.

And try taking your titles to Tarnished Coast, where that Journalist Fellow (I forget his name) shouts out your titles to everyone in the place. That's hilarious!

Pros:
None

Cons:
Take Time

Thats all.

Titles are something I collect. I had the choice of collecting fine art, or GW titles. I looked at my bank balance and tried to decide which one would harm me more. I then thought about which would give me a better sense of accomplishment. I eventually chose to collect GW titles. Is anyone studying the effects of collecting fine art?

To be honest I don't even know what I'm replying to. The OP never gave their concerns although they said they had some. How can we give our opinion on concerns we do not know about?

There are neither pros nor cons to titles. Some do grant you a bonus while playing in certain limited areas. Non really detract from your ability to play though a very small number of people seam to think a higher titles is needed to play with them.

As for addiction, there are so many worse things out in the real world to be addicted to above and beyond sitting infront of a computer and using your head to play a game.

If your going to argue carpal tunnel syndrom then maybe you just need to speak to the computer manufactures not the game players as most of us spend more time on the computer in our day to day jobs than we do playing games.

You know what I want to know?

What are the "pros" of watching Meerkat Mansion?

I found that show interesting :P

Rereading the OP, I suppose the question is more "implied". What I get from it is: Does the addition of titles to the game foster elitist attitudes and contribute to game addiction? My answer: probably.

Considering the chemicals produced by the brain during gameplay, such as dopamine (which effects motivation/reward behavior) and adrenaline which releases glucose to the brain (which the brain loves)...I can see how playing games in general can become an addiction. Runners often become "addicted" to running because the chemical processes in the brain are pleasing, the same can be said for weightlifters, drag racers skydivers and other "adrenaline-junkie" passtimes.

It has been shown over and over again, that higher order primates become compelled by behaviors that are pleasing...be it masturbation, games, drugs, sports or driving really fast...your brain can become chemically dependent on excessive excretions of natural chemicals produced during specific behaviors. Some might want to differentiate between addictions that there are physical addictions (characterized by physiological changes in the body, creating painful symptoms during withdrawal) and psychological addiction (characterized by behavioral changes, usually negative) but addiction, any way you slice it, is addiction. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction for more details.

So, addressing the issue: Video games in general are shown to create a psychological dependency in many of us, to one degree or another, some in the extreme. Chasing after achievable goals (no matter how time-consuming) and being rewarded for them over time is a key factor in keeping players playing AND is a key factor in the formation of psychological addiction to gaming.

On top of this, the monitors we look at while playing have the same effect on the brain as television. That is to say, the imperceptible flashing of the screen creates alpha wave in the brain...a sort of pre-sleep/semi-hypnotic state. Not only does this make our brains more open to suggestion, but creates an effect that allows the brain to reach into the subconscious and act on impulses that might be harmful in "real" life. Acting on these impulses in our fantasy lives, once again, creates chemicals to release into the brain making it pleasurable...

Many games rely on long-term leveling grind to keep players engaged...the reward: greater power/prestige over other players. GW has a low level cap, so that grind has been eliminated...the substitute: title acquisition. Titles provide the same/similar rewards as other games with higher level caps in the form of more power/prestige...Addressing PvP vs. PvE balance, most of the added "power" is PvE only, though still exists. The brain's reward for achieving titles (feel-good chems) keep you coming back for more. Social and psychological factors combine to keep players playing and often show their achievements in sometimes less than appropriate ways...hence attitudes.

Being a "Have" vs. a "have not" has always contributed, socially, to hierarchical structures...from bees to wolves to chimps and of course humans...Alphas through Omegas, we have social structures based on classes. Classes are typically based on ability to control resources. The more titles you have, the more resources you must have...these resources may be time, social network, skills or material based, but still...it is the title that demonstrates your ability to use/acquire resources and therefor show your higher standing in the game's social order. Of course, "elitism" will often rear its head...has always been this way IRL, so of course, why would it not follow into virtual societies?

Based on what I've observed, read and experienced...I honestly can say that I believe that title acquisition effects players who are predisposed to game addiction and those predisposed to becoming assholes...just my two cents.

He's talking about addiction to a game and now he chats with his doctor buddies about the game. Can't even keep the game limited to his own computer/personal time. Now he takes it to the workplace. I love it

I've been playing GW since just after initial release of Prophecies. In the first two years of playing GW, I did nothing else in my life except work and play GW. Now, I still play but not as much as I used to. I've taken breaks away from playing GW where I played other games such as Battlefield 2, Oblivion, Bioshock, and also breaks where I havent touched games but instead been obsessed with information.

Apart from work and seeing friends every once in a while I enjoy spending my time in a virtual world. In one way the GW world is every bit as real as the so called "real world".

I say that I am happy with my life and have been for the most part. I still have a lot to do in real life and lots to do in virtual life and probably lots to do as well in the other realms such as the dreamworld etc. (lol)

As long as there is some kind of balance in your life and you are happy, there isn't really any problem. We, as individuals are well capable of defining our own existance.

There is little difference between vanquishing a difficult area in GW to winning an award for your poetry. The outcomes are the same. That /roar is as real anywhere.

May your Dreams find Reality

I love it when some people start spouting their 'pseudo' psychological theories.

Somewhere someone must be laughing very much..

Ummm, I don't actively go after any titles.

I did go for L. Survivor once, but that was it.

Um...yes, lots of people study the effects of collecting fine art. Studying art collectors has been a kind of hot topic among art historians lately. The primary effect appears to be...oh yeah...developing better taste over time and being able to make fine distinctions among sets of similar objects.

Plus, although it's an expensive hobby most art collectors collect because it's a profitable one, developing their aesthetic sensibilities is just frosting on the cake. Art objects are like stocks: buy the right ones and you can sell them down the road for a huge profit.

Excuse me?! His typing doesn't resemble Bork at all. *goes back to the Crimson Knights of Bork hall and cries*

Other than titles that actually affect related skills, I see going after them like stamp collecting - it's something to pass the time.

As time goes on, we're seeing more and more "virtual" hobbies coming about - virtual pets, sims, MMOs, etc. I don't think they're any less valid than collecting stamps or coins, yet they're still mocked and criticized.

One personal pet peeve is when people make the assumption that you have no life if you play online games a lot - if I play 3 hours a day, how is that any different than the person that comes home and watches sitcoms 3 hrs a day, or the person that knits 3 hrs a day? I don't put off social things in favor of playing, but I do prefer to play as opposed to getting drunk or high.

=O Liez. There's no way you've played GW and never gotten drunk.

err.. is that drunk IRL or drunk as in the game?

GWars is an addictive game. I know, I've been around since the beginning of it. They've turned this game into a grind so that it gives people something else to do after beating the game. IMO Anet's title charts are way too unrealistic and unachievable and cause some players to have to dedicate way too much time just to get a reasonable rank or title in the game.

Ask yourself this though: Does Anet really give a s*** if you develop problematic anti-social behaviors? Do they care if you lose anything for the seemingly endless time spent grinding just to recieve a few kewl words underneath your character? Will it even matter after GW2 comes out? I'm willing to bet that GW1 will be shut down some time after the unvailing of GW2, and all that grind will become lost.

So, is it essentially even worth the grind? Hell to the NO! Give up on Guild Wars (especially if it's creating problems in real life). Online Gaming can become like crack to people if they allow it. Just don't allow it. Say NO to Guild Wars.

Addiction is defined as continuing to do something despite negative consequences. People are very quick to label a thing "addictive", but aside from various powerful pharmaceuticals, the capacity for addiction is not in a thing but in a person.

I have a fairly addictive personality. If I like something, I want to do it as much as possible. If I were to follow the accepted wisdom of groups like AA, I would have to stop doing every fun thing as soon as I realized I liked it. Instead, I acknowledge my tendency to overdo stuff, and make a conscious effort to maintain a balance in the different areas of my life.

Guild Wars is no different. I find it fun; not everyone does, but I do. I find it entertaining and rewarding. Not every part, obviously; I did Legendary Guardian once and enjoyed it, but I'm not going to do it again and I'm not going to go for any other titles. My rule is that I can only play GW in my free time; I won't cancel or avoid other activities to play it.

I guess this is where I differ from the people most at risk of addiction: if I do something enough, I eventually get bored of it and move on. I still have a few things left to accomplish, but I can tell that in the next few weeks I am once again going to start only logging in to play with guildies, and that less and less. I've done it after every single campaign release so far.

I think this was expressed very well.

Titles are just one of the many ways this game can provide you with a feeling of accomplishment. Also, becease titles are visible you can believe other people can/will/should be impressed when they see it; i.e. they function as status symbols.

I think the pursuit of these feelings of accomplishment and status can and should be enjoyed in moderation if one choses to pursue them. Titles aren't to blame because poor decision-making by the player is the problem. I think the expression "Guns don't kill people..." is applicable.

That said, I personally find it problematic that it's so easy for casual players to gradually become more committed to the game. I suppose this is true for all MMORPGs in general. To Anet's credit, compared to other online RPG makers they seem to make efforts to make it negligibly rewarding to put excessive hours into the game.

Why would they shut it down just because the sequel came out? Far less successful games with no fee are still up and running, and so far no mainstream MMORPG sequel has been successful enough to merit the shutdown of the original.

For all we know GW2 could be a huge flop of Asheron Call proportions, where the sequel was such a disaster they shut it down, while the original is still going.

Flyin [Nugz]

































hey hey hey smoke weed everyday!

I have problems with 1-6. Yeah I'm addicted; I know it. But the game doesn't stop me from having a girlfriend, going out with my friends/family, or working, so tbh it's fine with me for now. It's either watch TV or play GW for my 3 hours a day; I can sell my account for a lot more then my TV atm

I think I have a problem.

I am addicted. To water. It's quite unfortunate; I just cant stop drinking the stuff for the life of me. Are there WA meetings?
~~
Anyway, there ARE worse things to be addicted to than guild wars. Atleast GW has social interaction (for some...atleast compared to slots I belive) some form of thinking is required (smoking: 1. Light 2. Puff 3. Repeat step 2) it doesn't have mandatory, prohibitive, or increasing pricing (drugs, wow, gambling)...
Also: that #1 seems kinda...vague. I have an extremly overactive imagination, and I'll just be sitting there, with a random song (currently Portal's credits song "Still Alive") while thinking of things ranging from science, new builds for my derv, new decks to make for MTG, whether I have enough dragons, if I can steal a cookie from the cookie jar... *munches on cookie*.
#2. Everyone uses SOMETHING to deal with problems. If the method is different, yet achieves the same ends, how does that make it bad? (some smoke, some smash things, some play games, some meditate)
#3. More time on computer=more happiness all around I say.
#4. Who says one has lost control? There can be fine lines =/
#5. I'm sure if you love pie, and someone said you cannot have any more of it, yet they leave a pie sitting uncovered on the window sill every day, you might get restless or irritated.
#6. Hey, you might NEED an excuse to not go out with friends or family. or you could not like them. (Nothing like telling your parents to bugger off because your doing Urgoz HM)
#7. Yeah, that is addiction. Or being cheap. Flip a coin on it.
#8. Yet guildwars only requires ONE payment (atleast for each campaign). It's kinda hard to abuse "relying on other to finance activity" with only 4 payments available (or 5 I think for BMP).
That's just how I see it.

(1,2,4-6 for me)

Truly a vast amount of quality thinking from some people.
Thx

Being a former member of your guild, let me clairfy that for the last yr and a half or so, the core people were me, the leader of the guild, & his GF. The guild is Kurzick, yet you spend most of your time guesting in a Luxon guild to AB, and that's after you've afked at the GH for about 2-5 hrs, then complained about everything you dislike in this game for another 3. Chief among your complaints are how much you hate AB, hate titles, hate HA, hate GvG, hate PvE.
Now like I said, you spend most of your time ABing as a luxon, while you are a "member" of a Kurzick guild, you have the People Knows Me Title, and was working on HM titles for the next lvl of that title. You are Rank 8 for HA, and ALL of your titles come from pve.
Your constant complaining became so bad in alliance chat that you forced the 1st guild ever to join your guild's alliance to quit, simply because they got sick of you crying about how everything in this game is so bad. You've threaten to quit playing many many times, yet you still play and do all the things you hate. Perhaps the truth is Icey Dead People, you seek attention in the virtual world because you feel ignored in the real world. You seem to fish around in the alliance and on this forum hoping beyond hope that someone, anyone will agree with you, yet everytime no one does, you take it personally.
In closing, if there is nothing in this game you enjoy, like you so like to keep saying, then stop playing and get into a new game.

I'm in the healthcare profession as well and all that you stated is nothing more than a load of rubbish as I have consulted with my own professional Phd's and Masters on the subject. Lol nice try troll.

I will admit. for a good while i was addicted. I did the math and it came out to about 30% of my life for a year was playing guild wars. Factor in school and work, and sleep (very little of it) leaving very little time for my once active social life. Then it all changed when i was forced to go a week without the internet in my apartment. During that week i accomplished a lot, and when the internet was back my desire to sit infront of my computer for 8 hours a day had faded. And now i realize that i missed all the things i used to do before gw sucked me in. I still play but in moderation now. If it wasnt for friends in game i doubt i would play anymore.

and to all those flaming on the OP i have a question that only you can answer:
Is ignorance bliss?

The lack of logic & personal attacks in some posts serve little purpose save my own amusement. It is a curious statement in human nature that people would choose to post on the subject. It brings to mind the old saying
" Thou dost protesteth too much ". Certainly there are people that have nothing good to say about anything in any of their posts on any subject in this Board. Their thoughts have nothing to add to the fact there are Features within the game structure that ENCOURAGE obsessive behaviour.

Please get off your high horse.

Again, explain how Video Games are different from watching TV or even reading a book. People can watch TV 8 hours a day... is that bad? Is it worse than playing a game, which one can argue, is at least interactive?

I'm not saying game addiction doesn't exist: it does, and for some people, it can be deadly. But don't assume that just because some people are gaming addicts, everyone is.

pros: none = time to quit
pros: fun to play = go ahead and have fun

QQ less, enjoy more

if you aren't having fun, why do it?

Sounds like another lame attempt at a study showing gamers to be anti-social, depressed and sociopaths to me.

If you really are who you say you are then you should know, and I quote "People are bastard coated bastards with a bastard filling." That is the whole reason for people wanting titles and to be elitist. For no other reason than, quite simply, they can. But then I'm a cynic at heart.

Though I will say your lumping of addiction with elitism and titles isn't really merited. Some people have had over 2 years to achieve their titles. And before I get the "but titles haven't been available for 2+ years," I'll explain that not having titles didn't stop people from getting fame, exploring every map, getting 1+ mil experience without dying, death leveling in Presear, and gods know what else. All those things and I'm sure a few others predated titles and you got credit for them when the titles came out. So a few maxed titles doesn't necessarily make one an addict. Not to mention I know people with relatively few titles that are addicts to the game.