Why are MM heroes the first to die?
Tender Wolf
Title is pretty self-explanatory. Every time I take a MM hero with me, it's the first to die. And I only have one with the superior death magic -75 health rune. The rest are all regular with Ghial's Staff. It's like they don't get healed when they're sacrificing health. Anyone else have this problem?
Alexandra-Sweet
AI always goes for the ones with the lowest health, but personally Necromancers are one of the most weak profession when it comes to defense.
VitisVinifera
taste of death, problem solved
I D E L E T E D I
What is your MMs Build?
Rathcail
Throw in Dark Bond too for some more protection. Doesn't require much in Blood Magic points to fit the heroes.
puffzilla
Yep Dark Bood on hero MM ftw
Antheus
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Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
AI always goes for the ones with the lowest health, but personally Necromancers are one of the most weak profession when it comes to defense.
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Quote:
| itle is pretty self-explanatory. Every time I take a MM hero with me, it's the first to die. And I only have one with the superior death magic -75 health rune. The rest are all regular with Ghial's Staff. It's like they don't get healed when they're sacrificing health. Anyone else have this problem? |
And to counter the "they sac more this way" argument - this is for heroes, which profit a lot from high health.
~ Dan ~
Because they get trigger happy with [skill]Blood Of The Master[/skill] 
Tiny Killer
My MM heroes do not normally get killed.
stretchs
Actually my jagged is usually the last to die of my 3 necros. Typically it is my spiteful that gets offed 1st because he has to actually actively target the enemies
Quaker
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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf
.. with the superior death magic -75 health rune.
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Btw, for skills, I give them 4 minion skills, BotM, Heal Area, Vile Miasma and rebirth (sometimes Deathly Swarm replaces a minion spell). Attributes are all in DM, SR, and HP.
Squishy ftw
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Originally Posted by Tiny Killer
My MM heroes do not normally get killed.
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Zinger314
[skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill] + [skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill] = happy MM hero.
Ebony Shadowheart
My necro heroes tend to get targeted by enemy AI in general. My MM doesn't use BotM much, so I know he's not killing himself with that. My heroes also have more health than me since I haven't used runes on most of them (except vigs, vitea and/or attune). My Livia (blood) and Olias (mm) seem to be the favorites when it comes to punching bags for the enemy AI. Go figure. Prot monks are their friends. =)
R A N D O M
my MM heros have sup death and take death nova dark bond and taste of death, he never dies.
kobey
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Originally Posted by Quaker
You really shouldn't have a superior death on a hero. Hero's don't manage their health as well as humans, they're not as good at staying out of trouble. I would recommend a Major Death Magic, minor soul reaping, 2 attunements, and a Major vigor for runes. With 4 survivors and 1 bloodstain insignias. That way you sacrifice some functionality for maximum health - my MM heroes work fine with that setup. Also, equip it with Blood of the Master and Heal Area - they do a good job of healing the minions and don't use heal area when enemies are nearby.
Btw, for skills, I give them 4 minion skills, BotM, Heal Area, Vile Miasma and rebirth (sometimes Deathly Swarm replaces a minion spell). Attributes are all in DM, SR, and HP. |
And why give them 4 minion skills? 2 is more than enough
Rebirth is really really really bad on a hero
But well, maybe it works for you... Just stating what I feel
Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf
And I only have one with the superior death magic -75 health rune.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf
It's like they don't get healed when they're sacrificing health.
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Signet of Lost Souls+Prot Spirit=hero invincibility.
stretchs
jagged bones + animate minions ftw. Bring death nova and taste of death and a sols. Your mm should be set
FalconDance
I, too, have noticed that when a friend of ours takes his MM Olias out, Olias is about as useless as tits on a boar with the DP he rapidly accumulates (he goes down fast and stays down a lot). For some reason, he seems to have the AI of a touch necro no matter what the skillbar. Or at least that's how it seems.
Burning Blade
all my MM heroes have 16 DM and they are usually the ones who die last.
Skills are: BoTM, Death Nova, Explosion (forgot spelling), 4 mm skills, Res chant.
In my experience, as soon as my MMs sac health, other monk heroes heal them immediately. No need to worry about MM
Skills are: BoTM, Death Nova, Explosion (forgot spelling), 4 mm skills, Res chant.
In my experience, as soon as my MMs sac health, other monk heroes heal them immediately. No need to worry about MM
Count to Potato
if u have prot monks, they wont heal necro so.... Dark Bond maybe?
Turtle222
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Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Because they get trigger happy with [skill]Blood Of The Master[/skill]
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so true
dont feel no pain
hmmm for some reason my master of whispers gets owned, regardless of build ^^
Vinraith
My MM is frequently the last one standing in a party wipe situation, so I don't know what to tell you. It's my SS necro that's always biting it.
Moloch Vein
If your MM hero is the first character to die then your MM hero build freaking sucks.
Running anything but 12+1+3 for a dedicated MM hero is dumb.
Dark Bond - Infuse Condition - Mystic Regeneration
Squishy? Right...
Running anything but 12+1+3 for a dedicated MM hero is dumb.
Dark Bond - Infuse Condition - Mystic Regeneration
Squishy? Right...
Chthon
1. You shouldn't be using a minion master hero anyway. Use a minion bomber hero instead. The AI is much, much better with it.
2. The AI's usage of [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] is very poor. They do not "understand" that minions constantly degenerate, and, as a result, they do not cast BotM soon enough to keep the minions' health from going low, and then, once the the minions' health is low, they go gonzo with BotM and damn the consequences.
(The fact that MBs don't need BotM is a good reason to run MB heroes instead of MM.)
3. Why do I have a strong suspicion that your MM build lacks a self-heal strong enough to offset its sacrifice costs?
4. Here's a hero MB build:
[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Infuse Condition[/skill][skill]putrid flesh[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Well of Suffering[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
If the hero is still dying on you, swap putrid flesh or well of suffering for taste of death.
If you don't like rebirth, put in a rez you do like.
2. The AI's usage of [skill]Blood of the Master[/skill] is very poor. They do not "understand" that minions constantly degenerate, and, as a result, they do not cast BotM soon enough to keep the minions' health from going low, and then, once the the minions' health is low, they go gonzo with BotM and damn the consequences.
(The fact that MBs don't need BotM is a good reason to run MB heroes instead of MM.)
3. Why do I have a strong suspicion that your MM build lacks a self-heal strong enough to offset its sacrifice costs?
4. Here's a hero MB build:
[skill]Jagged Bones[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill][skill]Draw Conditions[/skill][skill]Infuse Condition[/skill][skill]putrid flesh[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Minions[/skill][skill]Well of Suffering[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
If the hero is still dying on you, swap putrid flesh or well of suffering for taste of death.
If you don't like rebirth, put in a rez you do like.
Targuil
For me, SS dies always first. Livia likes to run frontline to cast his reckless haste to ele who is casting fireball in your face.
Washi
Sup Death is a MUST, anyone who doesnt have 16 DM on mm fails. Also [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] helps ALOT.
MercenaryKnight
MMs do not cast taste of death as a self heal. (unless an ai update changed this)
Generally they never use that skill because they want to upkeep minions instead.
Generally they never use that skill because they want to upkeep minions instead.
Squishy ftw
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Originally Posted by Washi
Sup Death is a MUST, anyone who doesnt have 16 DM on mm fails. Also [skill]Dark Bond[/skill] helps ALOT.
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Seriously.
You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime.
Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*.
Tyla
mine is SS.
the enemies always fancy my master of whispers lawl
the enemies always fancy my master of whispers lawl
..L..
My MM doesnt die most of the time thanks to one simple rit skill, mighty was vorazun 8 communing I believe it outlasts its recharge time. +15 armor and +30 energy giving our trusty MM a pool of 60 and if you toss in a +10 while carrying an item or mm insig hel have 85 or 90 armor wich is good enough to keep him out of trouble.
Moloch Vein
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Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
/fail
Seriously. You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime. Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*. |
75 health won't make one bloody hell of a difference for a minion master when he's hit by a level 28 monster. Either he's PS'ed, he's under Dark Bond or he dies.
Lower HP makes health sacrifices easier to handle by pip-based regen.
Higher Death Magic makes for more heal from BoTM leading to less required casts.
A minion master is a life saccer. Are you going to request bippers to bring minor Blood next?
It doesn't matter if the minions are "squishies" compared to the mobs. In any area where a real MM is justified, the minions should be as high level as possible. And a level 16 minion is a lot more squishy than a level 18 one.
There is literally no profession where a superior rune is as valuable as for a MM.
Chthon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
/fail
Seriously. You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime. Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*. |
A MM absolutely must have 16 DM. 75 hp doesn't come anywhere close to making up for the extra damage, health, and armor that come from 2 extra levels on your minions, much less for two entire extra minions. I hate to be dogmatic, but there's really no room for sensible disagreement on this topic. The question just is not open for debate.
A MB, on the other hand, can maybe get away with 12 DM. Although the only reason I'd ever think of doing going less than 16 there too is because I couldn't afford to buy the rune for the hero.
free_fall
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
My MM is frequently the last one standing in a party wipe situation, so I don't know what to tell you.
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14 Death, 10 SR, 10 Blood
Survivor scar of Minor Death
Radiant tunic of Attunement
Survivor gloves of Minor SR
Radiant leggings of Minor Vigor
Bloodstained boots of Minor Blood
Bortak's Claw/Torub's Wand - +5E
Shelboh's Gaze/Bloody Knife (collector) 12/+15/-1/+30H
550H, 69E
Dark Bond
Flesh Golem
Bone Fiend
Shambling Horror
Vampiric Horror
Bone Horror
BotM
Resurrect
Other people have other builds which may work better for them but this one has served me well.
Full Metal X
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Originally Posted by free_fall
My experience matches Vinraith's.
14 Death, 10 SR, 10 Blood Survivor scar of Minor Death Radiant tunic of Attunement Survivor gloves of Minor SR Radiant leggings of Minor Vigor Bloodstained boots of Minor Blood Bortak's Claw/Torub's Wand - +5E Shelboh's Gaze/Bloody Knife (collector) 12/+15/-1/+30H 550H, 69E Dark Bond Flesh Golem Bone Fiend Shambling Horror Vampiric Horror Bone Horror BotM Resurrect Other people have other builds which may work better for them but this one has served me well. |
chowmein69
my MM heroe usually is the last to die , just bring dark bond ,
and the SS usually dies first for me evrytime
and the SS usually dies first for me evrytime
free_fall
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Originally Posted by Full Metal X
Radiants suck, Golem sucks, 4 minion spells is fail, and if you have a monk with half a decent bar in your group then dark bond is pointless
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kobey
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Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
/fail
Seriously. You sacrifice 75 health on your MM for a difference of 2 levels on minions. Those minions are squishies at lvl 16, and they remain squishies at lvl 18. Even more so on HM. I prefer a living MM with lvl 16 minions over a death MM with lvl 18 minions anytime. Ofcourse, this is just my opinion. But dont say sup death is a must, because it's utter *insert flame*. |
azizul1975
as for the minion skill, bringing [skill]animate vampiric horror[/skill] can be good for MM health too.