OK here's the deal:
I have Prophecies & Factions and started out as a fire ele when PvP'ing. Here is the build I used:
Fire Magic - 14 (12+1+1)
Energy Storage - 12
Health - 660
Energy - 76
[skill]Elemental attunement[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]searing heat[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill][skill]flame burst[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
I then realised this wasn't working at all, so I was advised to change to air magic instead. I ended up buying complete new armor, runes, a new weapon, skills etc and this is what I use now:
Air Magic - 14 (12+1+1)
Energy Storage - 12
Health - 660
Energy - 76
[skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill][skill]Air Attunement[/skill][skill]blinding flash[/skill][skill]lightning hammer[/skill][skill]lightning orb[/skill][skill]lightning strike[/skill][skill]whirlwind[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
I also tried [skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill] + [skill]Lightning Surge[/skill] or [skill]mind shock[/skill] instead of dual attune when running the air build but that didn't seem to make any difference whatsoever to how well I performed.
The way I play is as follows:
I ALWAYS go for the monk or ritualist first but can NEVER seem to kill them. After around 2 mins of trying endlessly to kill the monk, I switch to something else and the same thing happens. I can't get anybody down past around 75% health and IF I do, they're back up & running with full health within a matter of seconds. By then I'm either at around 10% health, 10% energy or dead.
I keep thinking to myself aswell "it's OK, you just need some practice" but I've been trying for the past 3 weeks and I haven't improved AT ALL.
I really don't know where I'm going wrong. I mean all the people I fight seem to know exactly what they're doing and how to kill people real fast whilst staying alive at the same time. What am I doing wrong?
I'd really appreciate it if somebody could help me out as I feel as if I'm never gonna do well in PvP. Thanks a lot.
No Matter What I Try, I Seriously FAIL At PvP!
Vanchatron
Tab
You're having problems because you're trying to play an elementalist as a damage class - which they aren't.
Warriors are there to kill, elementalist add support through conditions and wards, any damage they do should be as a spike assist.
If you want to keep playing offensively, try something along the lines of:
[skill]mind blast[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]blinding flash[/skill][skill]gale[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]mystic regeneration[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
Meh, I can't read, you need NF for that.
Warriors are there to kill, elementalist add support through conditions and wards, any damage they do should be as a spike assist.
If you want to keep playing offensively, try something along the lines of:
[skill]mind blast[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]blinding flash[/skill][skill]gale[/skill][skill]immolate[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]mystic regeneration[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
Meh, I can't read, you need NF for that.
Zil
I would like to know what form(s) of PvP you're playing. (As in Random Arena, Alliance Battles, GvG?)
Vanchatron
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil
I would like to know what form(s) of PvP you're playing. (As in Random Arena, Alliance Battles, GvG?)
Mainly RA, but I do TA occasionally 
Vanchatron
So am I destined to be sh*t at PvP until I get Nightfall? 
Tab
Just don't try to run an offensive ele untill then.
BlackEagle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanchatron
So am I destined to be sh*t at PvP until I get Nightfall?
Competitive pvp, yes. You won't be able to play pvp competitively or even play HA/GvG/TA at any level without all three campaigns (EotN isn't that necessary).
For RA you can be fine with just prophecies/factions. You just have to apporach it the right way. You aren't there to kill. You are there to supliment your warriors/play defensively when necessary through the use of bflash. Don't just stick on one target the whole game, change targets at times and try not to always use skills on targets that have prot on them. Just in general don't worry if you alone aren't killing, no one character is going to kill a decent monk/rit/anything on their own. The fact that you can't kill alone doesn't mean you are doing bad, just try and watch the targets that any melee on your team go on and try to help them. A lot of the time how succesful you are will depend more upon team composition. But keep playing and enjoying it, and hopefully get nightfall and try other types of pvp.
Competitive pvp, yes. You won't be able to play pvp competitively or even play HA/GvG/TA at any level without all three campaigns (EotN isn't that necessary).For RA you can be fine with just prophecies/factions. You just have to apporach it the right way. You aren't there to kill. You are there to supliment your warriors/play defensively when necessary through the use of bflash. Don't just stick on one target the whole game, change targets at times and try not to always use skills on targets that have prot on them. Just in general don't worry if you alone aren't killing, no one character is going to kill a decent monk/rit/anything on their own. The fact that you can't kill alone doesn't mean you are doing bad, just try and watch the targets that any melee on your team go on and try to help them. A lot of the time how succesful you are will depend more upon team composition. But keep playing and enjoying it, and hopefully get nightfall and try other types of pvp.
dont feel no pain
I ran this in ab last night, worked very well - proh + faction only version
I did run a speed boost instead of the signet though
16 Air Magic
10 Energy Storage
9 Inspiration
[skill]Lightning Surge[/skill][skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill][skill]Lightning Strike[/skill][skill]Auspicious Incantation[/skill][skill]Ether Feast[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Air Attunement[/skill]
Auspicious Incantation + Lightning Hammer + Attunement = +50 energy gain
its overall pretty good quicky finishing people off
also the trick to playing an offensive ele is to kill in the confusion, most ele's would fail in a direct fight due to casting times etc.
I did run a speed boost instead of the signet though
16 Air Magic
10 Energy Storage
9 Inspiration
[skill]Lightning Surge[/skill][skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill][skill]Lightning Strike[/skill][skill]Auspicious Incantation[/skill][skill]Ether Feast[/skill][skill]Leech Signet[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Air Attunement[/skill]
Auspicious Incantation + Lightning Hammer + Attunement = +50 energy gain
its overall pretty good quicky finishing people off
also the trick to playing an offensive ele is to kill in the confusion, most ele's would fail in a direct fight due to casting times etc.
Tab
There's a nice example of what not to do.
iriyabran
[skill]Lightning Surge[/skill][skill]enervating charge[/skill][skill]blinding flash[/skill][skill]whirlwind[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]mantra of resolve[/skill][skill]air attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
i used to run that
mantra only if there's interrupter on the other team
i used to run that
mantra only if there's interrupter on the other team
Vanchatron
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
There's a nice example of what not to do.
You mean what "dont feel no pain" suggested? 
Also, do you guys suggest dual attune for PvP or Air Attune + Glyph Of Lesser Energy instead so that I can add an elite offensive?
Also, do you guys suggest dual attune for PvP or Air Attune + Glyph Of Lesser Energy instead so that I can add an elite offensive?
Tab
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanchatron
You mean what "dont feel no pain" suggested?
Also, do you guys suggest dual attune for PvP or Air Attune + Glyph Of Lesser Energy instead so that I can add an elite offensive? I do mean what dont feel no pain suggested.
Neither of those is ideal for PvP with only Prophecies and Factions - Blinding Surge is the best Air elite to run, but it's a Nightfall skill.
You could always try a water build with Shatterstone or Water Trident. In the build, you're only going to miss Freezing Gust from Nightfall.
Also, do you guys suggest dual attune for PvP or Air Attune + Glyph Of Lesser Energy instead so that I can add an elite offensive? I do mean what dont feel no pain suggested.
Neither of those is ideal for PvP with only Prophecies and Factions - Blinding Surge is the best Air elite to run, but it's a Nightfall skill.
You could always try a water build with Shatterstone or Water Trident. In the build, you're only going to miss Freezing Gust from Nightfall.
Vanchatron
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
I do mean what dont feel no pain suggested.
Neither of those is ideal for PvP with only Prophecies and Factions - Blinding Surge is the best Air elite to run, but it's a Nightfall skill.
You could always try a water build with Shatterstone or Water Trident. In the build, you're only going to miss Freezing Gust from Nightfall. Ya I see what you mean about Blinding Surge, I just watched a few HoH matches and every Ele there was using it.
I guess I'll just have to wait until I get Nightfall before I start being more efficient in PvP.
That brings me to another question, once I get Nightfall is Air or Fire magic better for PvP? I'm hoping you're gonna say air seeing as I just bought all this new air equipment/skills etc but be honest, if you think fire is better then I'd like to know, thanks a lot. That way I can get selling some of the stuff I've bought.
Neither of those is ideal for PvP with only Prophecies and Factions - Blinding Surge is the best Air elite to run, but it's a Nightfall skill.
You could always try a water build with Shatterstone or Water Trident. In the build, you're only going to miss Freezing Gust from Nightfall. Ya I see what you mean about Blinding Surge, I just watched a few HoH matches and every Ele there was using it.
I guess I'll just have to wait until I get Nightfall before I start being more efficient in PvP.
That brings me to another question, once I get Nightfall is Air or Fire magic better for PvP? I'm hoping you're gonna say air seeing as I just bought all this new air equipment/skills etc but be honest, if you think fire is better then I'd like to know, thanks a lot. That way I can get selling some of the stuff I've bought.
Tab
Air in GvG, Fire in HA. Doesn't really matter anywhere else.
However, you're much better off using a PvP character for PvP than buying new equipment on a PvE for each build.
However, you're much better off using a PvP character for PvP than buying new equipment on a PvE for each build.
Dr Strangelove
For a pre-NF ele in the arenas, I'd say your only real option is a blindbot, something like this:
[skill]lightning hammer[/skill][skill]lightning orb[/skill][skill]gale[/skill][skill]blinding flash[/skill][skill]aura of restoration[/skill][skill]air attunement[/skill][skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
Your primary job is to blind the crap out of any and all physicals. Blinding flash should always be recharging.
Your secondary job is to gale targets strategically. Look for monks running from your warriors, people casting important stuff, etc.
Your least important job is damage. Your damage is only there as a time filler.
Finally, don't always go for the monk first. The monk almost always has the best defenses, and tends to react better to stuff hitting himself. If there's no spikes to assist, I usually just chuck a few orbs at a random unprotted target. If there's a monk around, it's unlikely you're going to kill your target, but you'll draw out some prot that'll allow other players to kill stuff more easily.
Remember, you're probably not going to score a lot of kills as an ele. If you want lots of kills, run a warrior, assassin, or dervish.
[skill]lightning hammer[/skill][skill]lightning orb[/skill][skill]gale[/skill][skill]blinding flash[/skill][skill]aura of restoration[/skill][skill]air attunement[/skill][skill]elemental attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
Your primary job is to blind the crap out of any and all physicals. Blinding flash should always be recharging.
Your secondary job is to gale targets strategically. Look for monks running from your warriors, people casting important stuff, etc.
Your least important job is damage. Your damage is only there as a time filler.
Finally, don't always go for the monk first. The monk almost always has the best defenses, and tends to react better to stuff hitting himself. If there's no spikes to assist, I usually just chuck a few orbs at a random unprotted target. If there's a monk around, it's unlikely you're going to kill your target, but you'll draw out some prot that'll allow other players to kill stuff more easily.
Remember, you're probably not going to score a lot of kills as an ele. If you want lots of kills, run a warrior, assassin, or dervish.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
You're having problems because you're trying to play an elementalist as a damage class - which they aren't.
Damage elementalists stay in PvE.
support elementalists stay in PvP.
imo
support elementalists stay in PvP.
imo
dont feel no pain
i dont play much ele pvp so im not all that smart in that way so pls dont flame me ^^
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by dont feel no pain
i dont play much ele pvp so im not all that smart in that way so pls dont flame me ^^
who lit the match?
Hyprodimus Prime
Wow....that's so profound tyla. *writes quote down in book of useful quotes*
On other notes, Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
On other notes, Quote:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Damage elementalists stay in PvE.
support elementalists stay in PvP. true that. Trevor The Wave
If you're only playing in RA, eles don't really belong in it.
Fire: there aren't too many people you can AoE with it. Air: i guess you can b surge, or dual attun bflash, but that's basically it. Water: shatterstone? no. Earth: don't be gay and waste everybody's time. Try running a different profession in Ra.
Kwan Xi
Don't give up! Practice, Practice, Practice!!!!!! You need to analyze your build and yourself, what is killing you, or why the person your trying to kill isn't dying. You need to learn from your matches and learn from your mistakes.
Its easy for sit back, give up, and ask for help here. However it's easy for everyone here reading to just say you need Nightfall or you suck in PvP. Arena.net developed all the Guild Wars skills so players even if they're missing a campaign can do reasonably well in PvP and PvE. If a missing Nightfall seriously screwed players I'm sure they would do something to fix it. Bottom Line keep trying. For now from what I see you builds need more work, and You need outfit your character better. Its seems all you have is one rune for your elemenalist. Your going to need more then 1 minor rune in your armor if your hope to do well. Don't be scared about lowering your health, I generally find 400-470HP normal for elemenalist unless your a Warrior HP isn't as Important as your Attribute Strength. I generally run with 2 Major Runes or 1 Superior Rune+ 1 Minor Rune, Insignias in Armor, and a Major or Sup Vigor rune. Extra runes make your skills stronger, also it allows you to free up some points to spend on other attributes to diversify your build. (ie: add 8 points into Healing Prayers so you can use Healing Breeze allowing you to heal yourself in battle) Consider making a PvP only character its easy to set one up, You can instantly generate Max level Armor and Runes once unlocked so you don't have to spend any Gold outfitting your character, and they are easily disposed of once your finished so you can start another one quickly.
Kwan Xi
oh BTW a quick fix to your Fire and Air builds you posted would be to take out Flame Burst and Whirlwind and replace it with Aura or Restoration that should help keep your health full. Forget those close up spells if a Warrior,Assassin, or Dervish gets into Melee range run away! Don't stand there and let them hit you or your gonna die! Keep Moving!!!! Also for your Fire Build maybe replace Elemental Attunement for Mind Burn as long as you use it on Non-Eles You should cause some decent damage plus inflict some decent burn degen.
bungusmaximus
You builds have no reliable way of healing yourself and/or teammates, thats not good for obvious reasons. You also say you like 4vs4, RA is an awesome place to learn the ropes, TA, however might be a bit too much to chew on, it's hard mode 4vs4 ^^. If you want to test 4vs4 builds with friends I suggest you try AB.
Originally Posted by Vanchatron
Quote: |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vanchatron
I keep thinking to myself aswell "it's OK, you just need some practice" but I've been trying for the past 3 weeks and I haven't improved AT ALL.
Try to make friends, more people know more things. 3 weeks isn't awfully long to begin with.
About builds, elementalists aren't too hot in arenas since they easily break under pressure (a little too much enchantment removal and interrupts flying around). When people use eles in PvP they use him for helping killing stuff and team support. An ele with [wiki]blinding flash[/wiki] and dual attunements could do reasonably well, it's fun as hell too watching sins attack through thin air, so you got that part pretty right. An extra hex removal skill or condition remove also helps a great deal, and not just for yourself. Too bad you don't have nightfall though. Still, if you wanna stick to ele and get good at PvP, AB is better, they actually NEED eles there to pan fry shrines or blind all the assassins and rangers running around there. And one thing about RA is just sneaky, most people there are beginners but it's often used by top-level players to kill time a bit before they have to do something else. Don't feel humiliated because you're no match anyway, try and learn from them and how they mess you up so you can pass it on to other victims. Oh and read the gladiator's section on these forums, theyre well moderated and there's good info in them.
Moral55
What?? Shatter stone is awesome incarnate (exaggeration).
But seriously A basic decent water build would be Shatterstone Vapor Blade Ice Spike Water Utility spell of preference Arcane Echo Water Attunement GoLE Res Sig Use echo one Shatterstone to get 3 +100 damages in a short period and another in 3 seconds. Not the best spike but the utility makes up for it's short comings. Use only in RA or AB.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Nukers should stay out of PvP yes
Spiking is always good. I was running a mindblaster rogorts spam and got about 8 glad points pretty quickly. Eles can put out high dps and Ihave found trying to stay more offensive in RA is more effective on an ele that running wards epicially since most players there are leeroys or narutards.
Painbringer
Never rely on anyone else in RA. Because you never know what type of group you are going to get. You have no condition removal and no self healing and last no run skill. Although a run skill is minor I personally like to have one on my bar. Lately, I have seen the Searing Flame and mark rodgort flame builds, some air builds and a few exploding grenade builds Ele/Rit skills like mix
[skill]Burning Speed[/skill] [skill]Star Burst[/skill] [skill]Phoenix[/skill] [skill]ancestors' rage[/skill] [skill]Cruel Was Daoshen[/skill]
Sir Pandra Pierva
When i was running my mindblaster rodgorts build. I ran into about 16 eles runnign starburst or some varient of it and a lot of earth tanks. Then generally dont like to work. Why people use burning speed is kinda beyond me sometimes. In PvP...In PvE I use it for running alot on my ele.
Painbringer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva
Why people use burning speed is kinda beyond me sometimes. In PvP...In PvE I use it for running alot on my ele.
The only thing I can think of is they use it to run to target it burns them as you explode. Personally Flame Djinn's Haste is better option since after you explode if they do not die you can still get out. I actually ran factions with a E/R grenade build (of course had to change for a couple missions like the dragon) Something different and they sure like to ball up
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanchatron
I ALWAYS go for the monk or ritualist first but can NEVER seem to kill them. After around 2 mins of trying endlessly to kill the monk, I switch to something else and the same thing happens. I can't get anybody down past around 75% health and IF I do, they're back up & running with full health within a matter of seconds. By then I'm either at around 10% health, 10% energy or dead.
I keep thinking to myself aswell "it's OK, you just need some practice" but I've been trying for the past 3 weeks and I haven't improved AT ALL. Air spikers are TERRIBLE when dealing against a Prot monk. If you want PvP ele, go support using Blind and KD. You should consider going Dervish as your second class so you can use Earth lvl 8 Mystic Regeneration. I would also add Aura of Restoration instead of Lightning Stike and Whirlwind. Your damage output won't be as good, but survivability should be off the chart if you have the 4 enchantments on and constantly spamming Lightning Hammer, Lightning Orb, and Blinding Flash. I do NOT recommend in many situations, but this has worked fabulous in AB. In terms of healing: +12 Health regen per second (max is 10) when 4 enchant active, useful against heavy degen. Level 12 Aura of restoration should net about 80 health per Hammer, 50 health for Flash and Orb EACH time you cast. If you still die easily, you might want to practice a little more (This should not be difficult to play) and pay more attention to your surroundings (Don't tank). Also stay away from Rangers and enchant removing Necros if possible. I'd suggest using a +2 or +3 air rune, +1 energy storage, and Superior Rune of Vigor. Radiant or Survivor (Dual attunement should help alot), Attunement or Vitae.
Kwan Xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
You should consider going Dervish as your second class so you can use Earth lvl 8 Mystic Regeneration.
Great Idea except he doesn't have Nightfall.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwan Xi
Great Idea except he doesn't have Nightfall.
Aura of Restoration alone shouldn't change. If anything, he will have additional energy storage which will boost health gain from Aura.
Additional Advice: get NF. Seriously.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
Additional Advice: get NF. Seriously.
Could you put that in a memo and title it shit son he already knows. J/K
DoT eles should stay out of RA nothing will stay in there long enough for any real dmg to be dealt. Though it annoying to run archane echo sandstorm and have those going off everywhere. |
