Anet 3D modellers, I know. OK, they were nicked from the abandoned Utopia project, which were made by humans.
The thing is, how long has the Asura been driven to the surface? Who build those buildings? In that quest where you look for a nice spot for a new Asura town or a picnic or something, you walk pass buildings of the same architectural style, but in ruins.
Did the Asura build all those buildings in the short months/years, since they were forced to the surface? Or did someone else build them?
Were they Mursaat buildings? Geographically, that would be quite accurate. But they looked nothing like the Mursaat architecture from Prophesies.
Who made the surface Asura buildings?
arsie
Operative 14
Definately agreed. I've always thought it quite odd that the Asura were able to build those buildings in such a short period of time, and that they appeared to be a bit weathered and overgrown.
Perhaps it was the descendents of the first group of humans that built the ruins on Istan. The architecture is sort of similar, and accounting for the fact that they would have been colonists seperated by thousands of miles (well, probably more like fifteen miles but that's another thread) that might explain the architectural discrepencies.
Or it might just be another lost race of Humans, we seem to get around on that world.
Perhaps it was the descendents of the first group of humans that built the ruins on Istan. The architecture is sort of similar, and accounting for the fact that they would have been colonists seperated by thousands of miles (well, probably more like fifteen miles but that's another thread) that might explain the architectural discrepencies.
Or it might just be another lost race of Humans, we seem to get around on that world.
Mark Nevermiss
Maybe those were built by the now defunct Mursaat?
mazey vorstagg
It says in the Rata Sum description that those structures absorb energy from the air and convert it into magic electricity (or something like that) to keep themselves floating and to power the Asura's lives.
Here's everything
1) The mursatt lived on the tarnished coast but they build their buildings out of jade not sandstone and they're of a completely different style to Rata Sum.
2) The magic draining stone thing seems to be TOO aimed at the asura for it not to be built by them.
3) The architecture in Rata Sum is similar to that in the Central Transfer Chamber which was built by the Asura, Vekk said so.
4) There are ruins in the same style on the Tarnished Coast which the Asura seem to not know.
5) The stone looks weathered
From that I conclude that the Asura build Rata Sum and the ruins/weathered look are a discrepancy on the part of the designers.
Here's everything
1) The mursatt lived on the tarnished coast but they build their buildings out of jade not sandstone and they're of a completely different style to Rata Sum.
2) The magic draining stone thing seems to be TOO aimed at the asura for it not to be built by them.
3) The architecture in Rata Sum is similar to that in the Central Transfer Chamber which was built by the Asura, Vekk said so.
4) There are ruins in the same style on the Tarnished Coast which the Asura seem to not know.
5) The stone looks weathered
From that I conclude that the Asura build Rata Sum and the ruins/weathered look are a discrepancy on the part of the designers.
Sheena Inverse
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Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
4) There are ruins in the same style on the Tarnished Coast which the Asura seem to not know.
5) The stone looks weathered From that I conclude that the Asura build Rata Sum and the ruins/weathered look are a discrepancy on the part of the designers. |
Onarik Amrak
Well, they are in a jungle and oddly enough Rata Sum is an anagram for Mursaat which is also an anagram from Sumatra.
Maybe it all fits in somehow.
Maybe it all fits in somehow.
Neriandal Freit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak
Well, they are in a jungle and oddly enough Rata Sum is an anagram for Mursaat which is also an anagram from Sumatra.
Maybe it all fits in somehow. |
Etta
^ Not really, the anagram bit was on GW wiki as well. I remember reading somewhere that when those little guys made their way up to the surface. They found an abandon city, which they had taken over.
So consider the area and the name, the Mursaat fit the bill.
So consider the area and the name, the Mursaat fit the bill.
arsie
Hmm. I also think they are very Mursaat in nature. With all the floaty bits. Lets assume that they are native Mursaat architecture, for a moment then.
The Asura have the technology or ability to detect magic. Which is why they built the Central Transfer Chamber near Primodus. (Correction: does it actually say anywhere that Asura built the CTC as opposed to used an existing tech?)
So Asura could also have detected the magical nature of the Mursaat architecture, which happened to be recently vacated. Of all the places in the world they choose to dwell on the surface.
The eyeball shaped structures in Oola's Lab is more likely to be native Asuran architecture.
That calls into question the relationship between Jade and Mursaat. They are not the same species, so might have an alliance or masters and slaves relationship perhaps. So all the architecture we thought was Mursaat architecture, could well be Jade architecture.
The Asura have the technology or ability to detect magic. Which is why they built the Central Transfer Chamber near Primodus. (Correction: does it actually say anywhere that Asura built the CTC as opposed to used an existing tech?)
So Asura could also have detected the magical nature of the Mursaat architecture, which happened to be recently vacated. Of all the places in the world they choose to dwell on the surface.
The eyeball shaped structures in Oola's Lab is more likely to be native Asuran architecture.
That calls into question the relationship between Jade and Mursaat. They are not the same species, so might have an alliance or masters and slaves relationship perhaps. So all the architecture we thought was Mursaat architecture, could well be Jade architecture.
mazey vorstagg
Good point Arsie, although I always thought that the Jade were bound spirits of the Chosen that had been killed by the Mursatt.
Those eyeball, ovens things appear in Boreal Station too, was that built by the Asura?
Those eyeball, ovens things appear in Boreal Station too, was that built by the Asura?
KalleDamos
The ruins and the builds may have held the mursaat, but that does not mean they were not asuran made. Maybe it was the mursaat that moved into ruins from a time asura were above ground or something. Stumbled across an old golem, and based their jades on that design.
mazey vorstagg
Have you seen the ruins from "O Brave new World"? they're in Arbor Bay, They look Asuran, but then. As far as we know there's nothing Asuran in game, so these must belong to the previous inhabitants of the jungle. They're in a cave, so it could be the "hidden city" near the Ullen river.
Mursatt, maybe but unlikely seeing as it's not like the jade fortresses they build.
Unless, the Jade are a separate race with their own style of building.
Mursatt, maybe but unlikely seeing as it's not like the jade fortresses they build.
Unless, the Jade are a separate race with their own style of building.
kRimag
If the asura can build portal devices as well as all the other asura technologies who's to say that they can't just instantly build buildings by way of asura-tech?
Shadowmere
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Originally Posted by kRimag
If the asura can build portal devices as well as all the other asura technologies who's to say that they can't just instantly build buildings by way of asura-tech?
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that and I think there's a few quests the asura have you "scout" the buildings to find more suitable ones for habitation or something...all I know is I had to kill about 200 destoryers for the lil jerks to be happy with their new home.
mrmango
They are most likely mursaat buildings.
arcanemacabre
My guess is the Asura buildings were originally built by the Mursaat long ago. The Mursaat's new architecture could be after their discovery of the bloodstones, since it appears to use the same shiny crystal that comes off the bloodstones. The Jade Armors also appear to be the same material. It looks like maybe when they learned to mold and shape this crystal, they adopted a new way to create buildings, too.
arsie
I went through "The Final Vision" in the scrying pool, and Vekk specifically said "...that's why we built the Central Transfer Chamber there..." And the Central Transfer Chamber has the same style as Rata Sum etc, and not like Oola's Lab/Boreal Station.
Lets look at a few facts:
1) Asura are subterranean. Although some of the Asura Gates lead near to the surface, suggesting surface contact.
2) Asura can detect magic. Which is why the Central Transfer Chamber was build near Primordus.
3) Asura Gate technology/magic is stable.
4) G.O.L.E.M. technology/magic is not stable yet.
5) Gadd is experimenting with the Bloodstone technology/magic.
6) The architectural style of Rata Sum, Vlox's Fall and the Central Transfer Chamber is the same.
7) It is also the same architectural style as the ruins encountered in O Brave New World quests.
8) Purple crystal style architecture attributed to the Mursaat, as seen in Bloodstone and Ring of Fire islands, also appears the Realm of Torment.
If the Asura built the Central Transfer Chamber, which has the same architectural style as Rata Sum, there are 2 possibilities.
1) Rata Sum was built by Mursaat, and the Asura copied their design, or
2) Rata Sum was built by Asura, and the Mursaat occupied it.
Another question arises when we suppose that Asura copied Mursaat architecture: Did the Asura encounter the Destroyers after they built the CTC, and was later driven to the surface?
Since many Asura Gates are near the surface, we can suppose two things.
1) Asura occassionally explored the surface, and might have encountered Rata Sum, and/or
2) Asura have always had surface colonies.
These possiblities make the origins of Rata Sum being Asuran or Mursaat both plausible.
If the Asuran did not copy the Mursaat architecture, they might have learned two other technology/magic from them. One is the Bloodstone, and the other is the G.O.L.E.M., which could be inspired by Jade Armor and Jade Bow (assuming they are automatons).
There are several clues associating the Jade Armor and Jade Bow, and the purple crystal architecture with Abaddon. This need not contradicted by the fact that Titans fought the Mursaat, as they could both be attempts by Abaddon to take over the world, and he used whichever was stronger.
The relationship between Jade and Mursaat is unknown.
Lets look at a few facts:
1) Asura are subterranean. Although some of the Asura Gates lead near to the surface, suggesting surface contact.
2) Asura can detect magic. Which is why the Central Transfer Chamber was build near Primordus.
3) Asura Gate technology/magic is stable.
4) G.O.L.E.M. technology/magic is not stable yet.
5) Gadd is experimenting with the Bloodstone technology/magic.
6) The architectural style of Rata Sum, Vlox's Fall and the Central Transfer Chamber is the same.
7) It is also the same architectural style as the ruins encountered in O Brave New World quests.
8) Purple crystal style architecture attributed to the Mursaat, as seen in Bloodstone and Ring of Fire islands, also appears the Realm of Torment.
If the Asura built the Central Transfer Chamber, which has the same architectural style as Rata Sum, there are 2 possibilities.
1) Rata Sum was built by Mursaat, and the Asura copied their design, or
2) Rata Sum was built by Asura, and the Mursaat occupied it.
Another question arises when we suppose that Asura copied Mursaat architecture: Did the Asura encounter the Destroyers after they built the CTC, and was later driven to the surface?
Since many Asura Gates are near the surface, we can suppose two things.
1) Asura occassionally explored the surface, and might have encountered Rata Sum, and/or
2) Asura have always had surface colonies.
These possiblities make the origins of Rata Sum being Asuran or Mursaat both plausible.
If the Asuran did not copy the Mursaat architecture, they might have learned two other technology/magic from them. One is the Bloodstone, and the other is the G.O.L.E.M., which could be inspired by Jade Armor and Jade Bow (assuming they are automatons).
There are several clues associating the Jade Armor and Jade Bow, and the purple crystal architecture with Abaddon. This need not contradicted by the fact that Titans fought the Mursaat, as they could both be attempts by Abaddon to take over the world, and he used whichever was stronger.
The relationship between Jade and Mursaat is unknown.
mazey vorstagg
Ok here's a theory.
The mursatt were once humans, that would explain the legs and nipples and humanoid form 'an all. They lived in the jungle and built Rata Sum and other towns.
For some reason they had to flee the jungle and on their travels they ascended (not in the Desert though, because otherwise Augury rock would be broken already) and through ascension they gain greater spell casting abilities. Using their new found power they eventually transform into the creatures we know today, floating using magic, skin drained of colour due to overuse of magic...
They made their home in the RoF and sent patrols back to the jungle to investigate the situation. They started to reestablish a city there (the one saul found) but it was more of an outpost, most Mursatt stayed in the RoF. In the RoF they found the jade which they used to build their fortresses and armors to help defend themselves lest another threat come, like the one in the jungle.
The rest is history
The CTC is an exception, because we know it's not Asuran architecture out there in the jungle (which it's like) yet the asura claim they built it. I'm putting my bets that it's just a big reuse of art, and technically should look different to the Mursatt Ruins.
The mursatt were once humans, that would explain the legs and nipples and humanoid form 'an all. They lived in the jungle and built Rata Sum and other towns.
For some reason they had to flee the jungle and on their travels they ascended (not in the Desert though, because otherwise Augury rock would be broken already) and through ascension they gain greater spell casting abilities. Using their new found power they eventually transform into the creatures we know today, floating using magic, skin drained of colour due to overuse of magic...
They made their home in the RoF and sent patrols back to the jungle to investigate the situation. They started to reestablish a city there (the one saul found) but it was more of an outpost, most Mursatt stayed in the RoF. In the RoF they found the jade which they used to build their fortresses and armors to help defend themselves lest another threat come, like the one in the jungle.
The rest is history
The CTC is an exception, because we know it's not Asuran architecture out there in the jungle (which it's like) yet the asura claim they built it. I'm putting my bets that it's just a big reuse of art, and technically should look different to the Mursatt Ruins.
Onarik Amrak
I don't think Mursaat were humans. Humanoid perhaps, but not human.
I would also suggest they Enchanted in the Desert are old discarded Mursaat armor.
My guess is they went there and attempted Ascension but failed.
Maybe they became disillusioned or found some other great power, so they discarded their old armor and became primarily casters.
But do you think if the Mursaat built Rata Sum, if they built it before they went to the Desert or after?
I would also suggest they Enchanted in the Desert are old discarded Mursaat armor.
My guess is they went there and attempted Ascension but failed.
Maybe they became disillusioned or found some other great power, so they discarded their old armor and became primarily casters.
But do you think if the Mursaat built Rata Sum, if they built it before they went to the Desert or after?
mazey vorstagg
Well, I don't think they can have ascended in the desert. We were the first people to have ascended in the desert (because when we ascended we broke Augury rock in two, we also reassembled the vision crystal. If these feats had been done before then we couldn't have Ascended.
But who's to say that the Mursatt didn't somewhere else, is there any lore which says you have to ascend in the Crystal Desert? if you had the knowledge and power couldn't you call the gaze of the gods upon you in another location?
And I'm suggesting that they built Rata Sum when they were still humans and before they ascended.
I'm against the idea that the Mursatt used Enchanted as their armor because I think that's just a reuse of skins and models on Anet's part, not a deliberate similarity.
However, you do have a point. They might have tried to Ascend in the Desert and failed when the Forgotten destroyed them. That could give a way for the Forgotten to have their armor, but I'm not convinced.
But who's to say that the Mursatt didn't somewhere else, is there any lore which says you have to ascend in the Crystal Desert? if you had the knowledge and power couldn't you call the gaze of the gods upon you in another location?
And I'm suggesting that they built Rata Sum when they were still humans and before they ascended.
I'm against the idea that the Mursatt used Enchanted as their armor because I think that's just a reuse of skins and models on Anet's part, not a deliberate similarity.
However, you do have a point. They might have tried to Ascend in the Desert and failed when the Forgotten destroyed them. That could give a way for the Forgotten to have their armor, but I'm not convinced.
McMullen
I was always under the impression that the structures were built underground and raised up by the asura when they became threatened by the destroyers.
Friar Khan
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Originally Posted by Sheena Inverse
I would suggest rather that for the asura, who are not a young race, this would not have been thier first dealings with building surface structures. Like most races they probably started out on the surface and moved underground as thier culture developed. Thus leaving behind the old structures that strongly resemble thier newer structures in designe. The humans and others have ancient structures all over the place, so why not the asura too. Gives you a sense of more history in the game.
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1) The Tarnished Coast ruins all resemble structures built by the Asura (assuming the npcs aren't disseminating misinformation info, lol)
2) Mursaat archetecture in Prophecies is distinctly different from Asuran
Also, according to it's page on the official wiki, Rata Sum was built by Asurans since emerging from their underground dwellings. Wiki lists this as in-game info, but I haven't tried to figure out where it's from. I'd say that Rata Sum looks overgrown simply because the Jungle grows quickly.
Overall I wouldn't be surprised if Anet makes something out of the Rata Sum/Mursaat anagram, but with the currently available information I see no evidence of Mursaat buildings in the Tarnished Coast.
Lastly, it's kinda odd that Erff considers the best location to be the one with a severely off-level ruin. Unless the ancient asura had no clue about creating building foundation it would seem there's something inherent to that place that undermines foundation, like a faultline or something.
super strokey
Im not sure if this has been addressed but who made the Eye of the north? I cant find out who and it doesnt look asuran
Onarik Amrak
Quote:
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Originally Posted by super strokey
Im not sure if this has been addressed but who made the Eye of the north? I cant find out who and it doesnt look asuran
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No one knows... except Anet.
Whisper Evenstar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by super strokey
Im not sure if this has been addressed but who made the Eye of the north? I cant find out who and it doesnt look asuran
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Now, jump to GW2 and look at the dragon theme...
I'm not saying this is necessarily what ANet has in store, but it was the first thing that crossed my mind... and its fun to imagine
super strokey
I think its going to be a major icon in gw2 for sure. I bet we need to find it... again.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Friar Khan
This is similar to my assumption when I encountered the ruins. Although I believe they started underground and were driven to the surface once before in their ancient history.
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Being that they are so small and mostly harmless (intelligence aside), like mice and rats, they probably just went underground to escape predators in their more recent history (few thousand years ago). Seeing as they are mostly scattered around the Tarnished Coast, they were probably trying to escape those ridiculously large dinosaur-like nasties. So, I suppose it is likely that any of these structures are from ancient Asura, back when they lived above-ground.
There is another possibility - The Forgotten. Here is an excerpt from the Lore of Tyria in the manual and on the main site:
Quote:
| From the Tarnished Coast in the west to the Bay of Sirens (now called the Sea of Sorrows) in the south, from the far eastern reaches of the Crystal Desert to the Giants' Basin on the northern coast of Kryta, Tyria flourished under the protection of these mystical creatures.(Referring to the Forgotten) |
Quote:
| Seeing that the world had changed, and preferring not to fight a war over control of the continent, the serpents retreated from the world of men. They left the coasts and the jungles. They abandoned their settlements in the highlands and in the mountains. Leaving the newcomers be, the serpents went to live in the only place where we humans did not—or could not—the Crystal Desert. |
That said, those structures are still around. The Forgotten also inhabited the Tarnished Coast; doesn't that mean some of their buildings would still be around there? As magical as they were, wouldn't they also be "bleeding" magic? Sure, it's different architecture, but it could have looked like what we see in the Watchtower Coast before the Asura got a hold of it and "remodeled" it.
Just throwing this out there: what if the Asura were actually created by the Forgotten?
mazey vorstagg
I'm fairly sure those towers are made by the White Mantel. They've got white Mantel flag's on them. I know I'm one to moan about the reuse of skins, but I really think they're too big a mistake for anet to make if they didn't mean them to be Lionguard or White Mantel.
As far as I know there isn't any Forgotten Architecture, but I presume it would be like the stuff you find in the HoH because they're the children of the gods.
As far as I know there isn't any Forgotten Architecture, but I presume it would be like the stuff you find in the HoH because they're the children of the gods.
super strokey
I bet the Eye is forgotten, its old and not made by any of the races.
mazey vorstagg
I'm thinking the Eye is Forgotten too
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
I'm fairly sure those towers are made by the White Mantel. They've got white Mantel flag's on them. I know I'm one to moan about the reuse of skins, but I really think they're too big a mistake for anet to make if they didn't mean them to be Lionguard or White Mantel.
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Hero's Ascent, maybe. I could see that. Same with the Eye of the North, except the story never says anything about the Far North, or even the Shiverpeaks at all. That doesn't mean much, though, just throwing that out there.
Vicks
The Mursaat hidden city was described as extremely tall towers. Now, I haven't really gotten a good lookaround of Rata Sum, but I'll ask those of you who have GW:EN whether you think those ruins look like they could be collapsed from colossal towers or not.
Also... doesn't it seem a little too far geographically from the Ullen River to be the Mursaat capitol? I mean, it was supposed to have cast a shadow over the entire Ullen River basin due to being cloaked by magic but still blocking out the sun.
Also... doesn't it seem a little too far geographically from the Ullen River to be the Mursaat capitol? I mean, it was supposed to have cast a shadow over the entire Ullen River basin due to being cloaked by magic but still blocking out the sun.
mazey vorstagg
Right I was at the liar of the forgotten yesterday. Which we know was a fortress built by them.
The architecture there is similar to the ruins in the crystal desert (the ones that would make sense to have been built by the Elonians, but obviously not). They built the arches and the towers and the giant statue of the warrior, so it seems.
The architecture there is similar to the ruins in the crystal desert (the ones that would make sense to have been built by the Elonians, but obviously not). They built the arches and the towers and the giant statue of the warrior, so it seems.
Neriandal Freit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
Right I was at the liar of the forgotten yesterday. Which we know was a fortress built by them.
The architecture there is similar to the ruins in the crystal desert (the ones that would make sense to have been built by the Elonians, but obviously not). They built the arches and the towers and the giant statue of the warrior, so it seems. |
Guildmaster Cain
Maybe Rata Sum already existed, prior to the Asura surfacing. But when they moved in, it was in ruins and they started to rebuild parts. That is why Rata Sum seems a mixture of two different styles. One is somewhat Mayan ancient architecture, the other is the architecture they use in Central Transfer Chamber, like the floating cube-like things in the middle of Rata Sum.
Maybe the Mayan style was from the Mursaat that got flushed out by the Titans.
Maybe the Mayan style was from the Mursaat that got flushed out by the Titans.
Morgoroth
Maybe the Mursaat were once a human/humanoid nation on the Tarnished Coast that decided to make a trip to Crystal Desert and try to ascend? Their ascension attempt failed, but they managed to make their way out of the desert. Disillusioned and having lost the purpose in their live, they might have just wandered for a bit, then one of the great dragons found them, twisting both their mind and body? Then the dragon fell into it's slumber and the Mursaat retreat to RoF, waiting for him to awaken and maybe becoming partly indipendent, exploring areas around RoF and such. I doubt it fits in the timeline, but I couldn't resist makind those wild speculations 
Edit : Tried to add some grammar, failed I'm afraid
Edit : Tried to add some grammar, failed I'm afraid
Longasc
The whole Mursaat/Asura connection seems quite forced to me, on ANet's part. They live in roughly the same area, yeah... but that was it.
ANet makes a connection between the two, you can even summon a Mursaat with Asura skills.
* But are the Mursaat ever mentioned by the Asura themselves? What do they have to do with each other?
* Do the Mursaat not have their very own agendas?
* Where is the Mursaat City that Saul d'Alessio found?
I do not have so much problems with the Asuras building surface structures. It is indeed odd that they look old and weathered, but nothing speaks against the theory that Rata Sum could be an early surface outpost of the Asurans.
The Mursaat were keeping the bloodstones and the door of Komalie under control. Not the Asurans. Where the main settlements of the Mursaat were is still unknown. The Ring of Fire is totally controlled by the Mursaat. Saul found a city in a jungle, however.
It does not fit together too well. Saul was also depicated as an old and gaunt man, a former alcohol drinker and gambler. In the BMP, he looks like a strong young man with a bit too much fat on his ribs.
They probably did not give a damn about making their minds up where the city is actually. And about a proper connection with the Asura probably neither.
The Mayan style seems to be just leftover patchwork from Utopia...
ANet makes a connection between the two, you can even summon a Mursaat with Asura skills.
* But are the Mursaat ever mentioned by the Asura themselves? What do they have to do with each other?
* Do the Mursaat not have their very own agendas?
* Where is the Mursaat City that Saul d'Alessio found?
I do not have so much problems with the Asuras building surface structures. It is indeed odd that they look old and weathered, but nothing speaks against the theory that Rata Sum could be an early surface outpost of the Asurans.
The Mursaat were keeping the bloodstones and the door of Komalie under control. Not the Asurans. Where the main settlements of the Mursaat were is still unknown. The Ring of Fire is totally controlled by the Mursaat. Saul found a city in a jungle, however.
It does not fit together too well. Saul was also depicated as an old and gaunt man, a former alcohol drinker and gambler. In the BMP, he looks like a strong young man with a bit too much fat on his ribs.
They probably did not give a damn about making their minds up where the city is actually. And about a proper connection with the Asura probably neither.
The Mayan style seems to be just leftover patchwork from Utopia...
Beeb beeb
The mursaat you summon with the asura skill is just a polymock.
mazey vorstagg
Yes Longasc you are right, but we're lore people! We like to make excuses for holes in the plot!
-Makai-
I think the Asuran buildings are leftovers from the Kingdom of Orr. Since Shards of Orr is between the major Asuran areas, it would make sense.
Does the mythos say the entire kingdom sank into the sea?
Does the mythos say the entire kingdom sank into the sea?