Death Penalty has got to GO! - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Wakka

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Northern Ireland

R/

04 Dec 2007 at 12:36 - 41

Quote:

I don't want to start that flame war up again, but it does seem like most of the nerfs have been because of people wanting to make things easier in PVP.

Like nerfing LoD

In terms of nerfing/buffing, wether people like it or not, its 99% based on GvG/HA (not so much Ha anymore tho).

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

04 Dec 2007 at 12:45 - 42

Three words.

Powerstone of Courage

Death penalty is the better reason to stay alive, there is not a single other reason other than the survivor title, and once you get it, it desn't matter.

Other games have XP penalty, item loss, etc...

Guild Wars has that.

Although I thing that 1% should be recovered with each kill that gives XP instead of each 100XP.

Ivan Darklord

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

??\(??_o)/??

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

N/Me

04 Dec 2007 at 13:01 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Three words.

Powerstone of Courage

Death penalty is the better reason to stay alive, there is not a single other reason other than the survivor title, and once you get it, it desn't matter.

Other games have XP penalty, item loss, etc...

Guild Wars has that.

Although I thing that 1% should be recovered with each kill that gives XP instead of each 100XP.

I agree Mithran.

Powerstone of Courage is very useful, and refreshing

, also consider XP scrolls to get rid of DP fast.

/notsigned

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

04 Dec 2007 at 13:03 - 44

Soooo...
You want to change a core mechanic because you suck?
Riiiiiiiiight.

The ignorance is hilarious.

Olim Chill

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

USA

DMI

N/

04 Dec 2007 at 13:06 - 45

/not signed

As others have said above, invest more in survival.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

04 Dec 2007 at 13:08 - 46

It's been around for ages and suddenly NOW it has to go?
Interesting.

genofreek

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

USA

Jenova's Apocolyptic Remains [JAR]

D/

04 Dec 2007 at 13:12 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

DP is fine as it is. You're much better off preventing DP.
Like, bring more passive defense, don't bring a tank(a warrior does damage!!!!), bring some shutdown if you know you'll encounter a boss that has the potential to hit for 200+.. Basically, prepare decently,check what you'll be facing, think about ways to counter it, and what'll kill it the fastest.

And on top of that, there even are consumables that help you prevent the gain of DP and there are plenty of DP removers around aswel.

And if you mention what boss it is you're having problems with and you give your party setup/builds, people can offer more help instead of talking about how DP should be removed..not..

/notsigned

QFT. The topic could've pretty much been closed after this post if you ask me.

xReLx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

Mo/

04 Dec 2007 at 13:12 - 48

/notsigned

Thats a terrible idea, QQ less or stop failing

CyberMesh0

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Charter Vanguard [CV]

N/Me

04 Dec 2007 at 13:24 - 49

This thread doesn't have ANY leverage because of DP removers.

Powerstone of Courage

Pain Inverter

gg.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

04 Dec 2007 at 13:26 - 50

DP has already been removed from most game modes.
The OP already mentioned candy canes and powerstones, for example.

You no longer die due to DP, but because you ran out of CC's and powerstones.

I think it is a good idea to have DP in certain game modes and no DP in others.

In PvE, constant high DP is a reminder of "you are doing in wrong, please try again". It is basically the only way to fail in PvE.

I would rather say, remove consumables from PvE. Do not make the same mistake in GW2.

I vanquished Kessex Peak with a friend, we were doing badly, but then he pulled out the magic powerstone and woosh, then we could go no fighting badly vs the Verata mobs.
In my opinion, we should not have made it because we were playing badly and the DP was the indicator for that.

It too also away kind of the achievement. BEFORE powerstones I would have said "yeah, I did it". Now people ask "how many powerstones", and this is SAD.

We have a paradox. The OP wants DP to be removed from PvE. But it basically already is.
And then you have people like me arguing that DP is necessary and speaking against his suggestion.

Funnily both sides are glossing over the fact that DP has already been stealth nerfed with consumables, especially the various kind of elixirs and candy canes....^^

IslandHermet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

04 Dec 2007 at 13:28 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

I regret presenting my views to people who care more about the meta then about having casual fun...

If I wanted to plan every little detail down to the millisecond, I'd switch to RTS games. I'm sorry that I want to play GW like an FPS with a bit more to offer than just "point, click, dead".

Its not that we are yelling at you just pointing out that.
unless your in the elite pve areas you SHOULD NEVER FAIL USEING CONSUMABLES. and if you do YOU ARE BAD AT THE GAME.
Sab's 3 necros+ you + henchies without consumables is a cake walk add consumables and your now playing pve auto pilot.

GW like a fps WOW. Guild wars is a RPG/MMO not a FPS

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

04 Dec 2007 at 13:57 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Stuff

Consumables were added because of people who have trouble with the game, and to make those good at the game finish zones faster. Plus they act as a gold sink. So why not :P

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

04 Dec 2007 at 14:28 - 53

If DP is that big an issue for you, Anet have given you numerious ways around it in the form of "consumables" which remove DP to one degree or another and do countless other nice things to make your life easier!

Check out http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Consumables

If you have GWEN, you can play the snowman dungeon and get ample supply of free candy canes every time for free. You can save up a good dozen or more just playing that for a few hours.

Their not even that expensive to buy at around 50g-100g each, which means you can buy close to 10 for 1k from another player.

There really is no excuse to get annoyed at DP when we have LOTS of items which now remove it, add health or protect against critical hits etc etc etc. There really isnt alot more to be said about this thread and its suggestion!

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

04 Dec 2007 at 14:33 - 54

Wow, words cannot express how /unsigned I am on this. Removing DP means there's no challenge...

Rugal

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

Wallachia

Defenders of Existence

N/W

04 Dec 2007 at 14:41 - 55

Though I agree that Anet makes things hard by adding 50 monsters in one spot, and giving monsters skills that do 300 AOE damage a second, DP need to stay.

John Panda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

in my house

The Arctic Maruarders [TAM]

A/

04 Dec 2007 at 14:45 - 56

somewhat-Immortality IN gw? wtf this game is already waaay to easy as it is
stop failing at gw
.. /notsigned

System_Crush

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2006

Tripping in Holland

My guild died :`(

N/

04 Dec 2007 at 15:03 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

GW like a fps WOW. Guild wars is a RPG/MMO not a FPS

Correct me if I'm wrong but because of the instances Anet or NCsoft or my info source changed the classification of GW to a COAG
(Think I heard it from an interview with a Dev a year or more back, factions release or E3 maybe)
(C)o-operative
(O)nline
(A)ction
(G)ame
Read: hack and slash online, hence the kill...kill...kill mentality.
But I agree that it's nothing like a FPS...although, I did suffer a bug last Sunday I had thought to exclusive to FPS's...

Kind of sad as that means they don't have the intention of GW being a COARPG

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

04 Dec 2007 at 15:09 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Correct me if I'm wrong but because of the instances Anet or NCsoft or my info source changed the classification of GW to a COAG
(Think I heard it from an interview with a Dev a year or more back, factions release or E3 maybe)
(C)o-operative
(O)nline
(A)ction
(G)ame
Read: hack and slash online, hence the kill...kill...kill mentality.
But I agree that it's nothing like a FPS...although, i did suffer a bug last sunday I had thought to exclusive to FPS's...

Kind of sad as that means they don't have the intention of GW being a COARPG

Its actually CORPG, Competitive Online Role Playing Game

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

04 Dec 2007 at 15:17 - 59

Thanks... I needed a laugh before I finished this paper.
/notsigned

nightwatchman

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

04 Dec 2007 at 15:19 - 60

/notsigned

In hardmode I like that DP and the wipe-at-60%=fail mechanic add a bit of challenge to the game.

In normal mode I like that the way your focus changes when you're on low health. "I don't care if I wipe again, if i can just take the rezzer with me..."

System_Crush

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2006

Tripping in Holland

My guild died :`(

N/

04 Dec 2007 at 15:20 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Its actually CORPG, Competitive Online Role Playing Game

KK I'll try to rember it this time.

Teh [prefession]-zorz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

wisconsin

Spiders Lair Kurz [SpL]

W/A

04 Dec 2007 at 15:20 - 62

WTS: prot spirit.

Jaws Of Doom

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

USA

R/E

04 Dec 2007 at 15:21 - 63

/notsigned

If you want to play Guild Wars without having to worry about DP, there is a wonderful place that DP even can't touch. It's called presearing, and you can stay there forever!!!!

Phoenix Tears

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2007

04 Dec 2007 at 21:55 - 64

I am still at the opinion, that DP system is only good for Pvp, there its balanced, but for pve its just unbalanced crap, where the % rates should be -25/+25 and not -60/+10 ...

And then give characters other negative effects, so more they die, instead of ever reducinc more and more the max H, until the dumbest monsters can kill you with their little farts in 1 Hit "theoretically"

Negative effects, like decreased to none experience anymore per kill, decreased to none money gain anymore for monster kill.

Reduced durations of Enchants, or longer durations of hexes, logner durations of conditions, or stronger effects of conditions, like Deep Wonds reducing HP instead of 20% for +5% more per death, while being on the field/dungeon.
Slower Skill recharges, higher Skill Energy Cost ect pp..

there are loads of much better fierce negative DP effects, then reducing the max Hp to the points, where you get insta killed, especially in HM and just have no chance anymore, to delete the DP, because of these heavily unbalanced Hp decrease you become unable to kill anything, before somethign kill you.

Protective Spirit is no allround wonder skill ..ists just an enchant, which can be very quick removed, then need the enemies to deal to you while ur unenchanted with it 1 hit = dead, when you have then meanwhile no skills active, which prevent deadly hits, which would otherwise kill you.

only because this unbalanced gameplay system stays now in the game for the time that GW exists, doesn#t mean, that this system is perfect and can't be improved.

insanely reducing the max HP to under the half is not the only thing, which can be a good "Death Penalty" ....

people which think this, are either absolutely ignorant, small minded, or even both together at same time

just my 2 cents

RSGashapon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Sol 3

R/

04 Dec 2007 at 22:08 - 65

Do you people even read posts anymore? Or do you just see certain words you don't agree with and take it from there?

I do not want DP removed completely. I would like to see how you reduce it changed. Not go away completely, just go away faster. Some places, take Arachni's Haunt for instance, have lots of low-level mobs that don't give suitable XP to reduce DP. You need +75 for each 1%.

If the DP mechanic were changed (read: NOT removed), to 1 kill = -1%, you could still drop DP AFTER YOUR CONSUMABLES HAVE RUN OUT. You shouldn't have to rely on Honeycombs or Grails or Snickers bars to compensate for a blatantly-overpowered boss.

"Hey, let's make bosses super powerful, and then add 'consumables' so the players can keep up!"
"Why not just lower the boss level, or make players more powerful?"
"No, that would unbalance the meta! Skills cannot be made more powerful! Unless they're monster skills..."

Do you get that? Certainly makes sense to me. Any kill gives you morale. Not a difficult concept to grasp.

Finally, a supporter of my cause, albeit a bit muddled. Thanks Phoenix.

TGgold

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Flying Gophers

Rt/P

04 Dec 2007 at 22:33 - 66

One time my party was at 60% DP and I had trouble killing a boss. It was actually the first time doing Sepulcher. Did I quit because he could party wipe in one attack? No, I actually used by brain. No. I set my Prot monk to use PS on herself, and only enabled ZB and PS. I manually reapplied PS when needed. I sent her in by herself, she took the brunt of the damage, and tanked while the rest of my team killed the boss from afar. I didn't use one consumable the entire time. In hard mode. Thus: I didn't have to use consumables to overcompensate for an overpowered boss....

Yes, it took a while. But at least I had a brain enough to figure out a way to beat him without needing consumables. Also, considering there are no enemies left, how would your change help any? Also, I don't like that fact that "any" kill gives you HALF as much morale as a boss would....

Shadow Spirit

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Chicago

your cat eats dog food [pup]

N/E

04 Dec 2007 at 22:39 - 67

/notsigned

The system works the way it is.

Aera

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Galactic President Superstar Mc [awsm]

E/

04 Dec 2007 at 22:45 - 68

I'd say, suck less

DP is one of the few things that keep this game challenging.

FoxS

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

LUXN

R/W

04 Dec 2007 at 23:15 - 69

PVE would be too easy with out death penalty.

thedeadlyassassin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

Tualatin OR

N/A

A/W

04 Dec 2007 at 23:17 - 70

Wiki wasn't made by idiots (although the build page once was when idiots thought farming lvl 0's was farming), read their guides on certain missions, quests, dungeons, whatever. They've helped me a lot, and it will make it so these "Cheating" bosses are as easy as Ascalon.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

04 Dec 2007 at 23:17 - 71

IF you were saying Remove DP from more forms of pvp (cept Gvg =P and Hero crapples.)

id sign...

izzywish

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

Manchester, UK

Carpe Nocte [StN]

R/

04 Dec 2007 at 23:21 - 72

Managing DP is imho great fun. It can make you play the game in a way that you might not consider. I remember many a great GW'ing moment where my team has been at 60% dp in HM, and so you just go for that one last not-a-chance this-is-going-to-work assault only to find that blind luck and a bit of brass kills an elusive group of nasties or boss, ah it gives me a warm glow

Of couse sometimes it all goes Pete Tong, so you change you team set-up, tweak your build and then go and grab a great slice of revenge, best served chilled!
I use consumables in HM co-op's and the occasional Vanq, but on the whole find them as a bonus but not a requirement.

So to the OP, nice idea, but ./notsigned

keefe

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Sydney

currently looking /sadface

Mo/E

04 Dec 2007 at 23:22 - 73

Off topic: Anyone remember the diablo 2 style death penalty, having to retrieve your corpse from the group of baddies that killed you the 1st time. The worst part being you lost experience and gained another corpse to retrieve for each time you died. I think that worse than dp.

On topic: dp is fine as it is

Tender Wolf

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

All over Tyria, Cantha, & Elona

The Eternal Night Vanguard [TEN]

R/

04 Dec 2007 at 23:24 - 74

/signed!!!

Death penalty is so unfair. Even WOW doesn't have it and I hate that game. They just have to guide their spirit to their corpse and that's it. No death penalty, and still no losing anything in your inventory. Death penalty has been in the game since the beginning (except in Pre-Searing) and should be removed. I really can't believe all the /not signed's in here...

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

04 Dec 2007 at 23:39 - 75

The point of Death penalty is that it is undesirable. You're not supposed to like it. You're supposed to avoid it and when it happens, it's supposed to be bad.
Guild Wars already has one of the most lenient mmo style deaths in the game industry. Removing it is a joke. It makes the game almost pointless. When there is no penalty there is nothing to overcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tender Wolf

Death penalty is so unfair. Even WOW doesn't have it and I hate that game. They just have to guide their spirit to their corpse and that's it.

No, WoW allows you to chose between running back or losing items/gold. And I garantee if you had to run 5-10 min back to your body every time you got killed you'd wish there were DP. Unfair? hah.

legion_rat

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

668 the neighbor of the beast

TFK

A/

04 Dec 2007 at 23:42 - 76

/signed.
the Op isnt asking for removal of DP just modification of it. I dont know if 1% is a fair number but I can agree with lowering the pain level a bit.

To the other posters telling him "player better" and other insults. While you are all prob gods in your own right to the gaming world not eveyone plays at the same lvl. From you post you didnt even seem to read what the OP said.

~the rat~

"Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill"

Mineria

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Denmark

Dragonslayers Of The [Mist]

W/Mo

05 Dec 2007 at 02:41 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by keefe

Off topic: Anyone remember the diablo 2 style death penalty, having to retrieve your corpse from the group of baddies that killed you the 1st time. The worst part being you lost experience and gained another corpse to retrieve for each time you died. I think that worse than dp.

On topic: dp is fine as it is

The worst thing was playing hardcore and getting your character killed.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

05 Dec 2007 at 02:41 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

/signed.
the Op isnt asking for removal of DP just modification of it. I dont know if 1% is a fair number but I can agree with lowering the pain level a bit.

To the other posters telling him "player better" and other insults. While you are all prob gods in your own right to the gaming world not eveyone plays at the same lvl. From you post you didnt even seem to read what the OP said.

~the rat~

"Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill"

But it already works that way. Killing one foe in hardmode RoT is about 1% DP. DP is removed via experience gain. Either you'd have to increase how much expereince is earned per monster kill (bad idea, makes leveling in PvE easier, doesn't give new players enough time to grasp game mechanics) or decrease the requirement of EXP per % of morale (again, bad idea, imbalances GvGs).

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

05 Dec 2007 at 02:43 - 79

I heard if you're not bad at the game and actually spec against the zone you'll be fighting in than you don't have to worry about DP. Could just be a rumor though.

/notsigned

Cargan

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

Scotland

[ESP]

W/

05 Dec 2007 at 03:15 - 80

a mod for DP? there's only really about one way to keep it balanced, but I think people would dislike it even more.

reduce DP per death to 10%, have no limit, and when you reach 100% DP you can't be ressed.
increase morale boost available to 20% and give 2% for every 50 kills.

Why should people be able to die as many times as they want in NM and never fail? I'd say that's imbalance.

Please, before you go asking for more "balance", think hard about who the current balance favours. It's definitely the player, not the PvE enemy. Want more "balance"? lets make it fair... give enemies morale boosts when they kills us maybe? a res shrine for enemies so they can come back and kill you too? How about enemies groups that have different builds every time you zone to counter what you have? Maybe enemy groups always come in 8? maybe taking on 8 level 20 bosses in one group instead of 1 level 30 boss?

Fairness? PvE players, like myself, have all the tools needed to beat each area. It's up to us to use the tools given to find the right way to beat it.

/end rant