Reasons why nerfing is good

dont feel no pain

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

07 Dec 2007 at 03:45 - 1
There's always someone moaning about nerf's, so im gonna moan about people moaning about nerf's.
  • Nerf's are required to keep the game interesting and fair.
  • Nerf's are there not to annoy casual gamers, but to stop exploiting gamers.
  • Nerf's are the backbone of today's farming builds, so dont complain about that.
  • Nerf's which involve internal effects (skills,attri) will always effect both pve/pvp so dont complain about who's effecting who.
  • Nerf's stop the gw econemy from breaking down due to exploitation.
  • Nerf's are there to balance, not to ruin, and when overpowered skills go down, underpowered skills go up.
  • Nerf's may suck, but imagine gw without them.
  • Nerf's encourage thinking, which is good.

People Shouldn't be complaing about nerf's, more asking for them.

I one for one love any update as it keeps me going, but people have complained about nerf's for a long time, i did abit 2 years ago, its never perfect because all the possiblities with skills and everything else in gw is too complex to be balanced.

I posted this just to see if anyone else aggree's
(if bad thread, pls close)

Zinger314

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

07 Dec 2007 at 03:47 - 2
Nerfs are fine if there are buffs to compensate. Which rarely happens.

azzer20

azzer20

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Ballerup, Denmark

Me/

07 Dec 2007 at 03:48 - 3
Gonna agree with Zinger some skills/spells has been nerfed to uselessness

but yeah nerfs are essential to the game

Hollerith

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

07 Dec 2007 at 03:48 - 4
What about stealth nerfs?

dont feel no pain

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

07 Dec 2007 at 03:48 - 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollerith
What about stealth nerfs?
well.... ermm... LOL ok i dunno what to say about them

You can't see me

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

07 Dec 2007 at 03:49 - 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollerith
What about stealth nerfs?
You find out one way or the other anyway.

Hollerith

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

07 Dec 2007 at 03:50 - 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by dont feel no pain
well.... ermm... LOL ok i dunno what to say about them
I actually didn't see the Ursan notes the first time I read them (just checked to back up my point), so my point may be lost.

In other news, I don't really consider it a nerf, because Ursan's other attack skill is pbaoe, so using it as intended will end up being more effective.

dont feel no pain

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

07 Dec 2007 at 03:52 - 8
I got to say, stealth nerf (if thats what you can call them) are still good, just stupid that they dont get mentioned like others do, like the recent ursan nerf was found out in under 5 mins since the update.

Winterclaw

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

07 Dec 2007 at 03:52 - 9
Only some of the things that get nerfed should be. Others might need a little downward tweak but are hit too hard.

Besides, there are enough skills that need buffs that unless it is ruining the game, Izzy shouldn't be too worried about nerfing those things.

dont feel no pain

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

07 Dec 2007 at 03:54 - 10
Very true i guess, i admit the Energizing Wind nerf was a tad overkilll lol, but they cant be perfect can they?

Hollerith

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

07 Dec 2007 at 04:00 - 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by dont feel no pain
I got to say, stealth nerf (if thats what you can call them) are still good, just stupid that they dont get mentioned like others do, like the recent ursan nerf was found out in under 5 mins since the update.
I've never taken stealth nerfs to be good. From past experiences with online games, they imply that a game mechanic was broken and was fixed (without wanting to alert the players). While it's fine that many game mechanics should remain secret, when devs constantly make stealth updates it doesn't bode well for the game at large.

Note that this does not have to do with anything with GW, I just saw many stealths in DAoC and that's what I figured they were for.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

07 Dec 2007 at 04:17 - 12
Nerfs are also good if they help balance the game.

Xavz

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2005

Wisconsin

E/

07 Dec 2007 at 05:02 - 13
Nerfs are sometimes necessary - when a few skills are out of line it makes more sense to bring them back down to the rest of the skills rather than attempting to buff a massive amount of skills up to their level.

That said, nerfs can also be annoying. They bother me almost as much as unnecessary apostrophes.

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

07 Dec 2007 at 07:57 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Nerfs are fine if there are buffs to compensate. Which rarely happens.
There have been far more buffs than nerfs over the course of this game, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Redfeather1975

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

07 Dec 2007 at 08:02 - 15
Nerfs are fine if they actually nerf the problem.
Sometimes though when a build's synergies are the problem, the skills get nerfed and not the synergies that fueled the overpowered build.
Then you get skills that are no longer viable and the synergies that were the problem still exist and it's only a matter of time before the build is tweaked to continue it's rampage.

RaMpAGe! RawR...

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

07 Dec 2007 at 09:08 - 16
Yanman posted a thread about this not so long ago. Use search.

yesitsrob

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

07 Dec 2007 at 09:43 - 17
Nerfing is good because it makes bad players on guru QQ and everytime and update comes around it makes for some hillarious reading.

And there's always far more buffs than there are nerfs, learn to read update notes.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

07 Dec 2007 at 10:04 - 18
Nerfs are good.

blue.rellik

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

07 Dec 2007 at 10:13 - 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by aapo
- I love your reasoning there. Why don't you burn in hell, troll?
What the hell? How is that post a troll?

Oh wait, you're still hissing over the 'Ursan Nerf' right?

dont feel no pain

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

07 Dec 2007 at 10:15 - 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by aapo
- I love your reasoning there. Why don't you burn in hell, troll?
LOL? this post is agaisnt exactly what you are accusing me of :ninja

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
my bad... its not even old either, mods if you feel this needs close, do not hold back.

Crom The Pale

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

07 Dec 2007 at 13:19 - 21
Nerfs are bad.

Balance is good.

Get it straight for once!

zamial

zamial

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2006

Usa

TKC

N/

07 Dec 2007 at 13:33 - 22
lol nerfs are needed but they really drop the bat in the wrong places most of the time. Sometimes I wonder if they have a huge warehouse with pinatas hanging up, to relate to a skill or class, drink a gallon of the cheapest tequila, put on a blind fold and go nuts.

BTW this is not a ursan waaa post, I rather enjoy using my classes real skill set and gave up on the ursan thing awhile ago.

TheHaxor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

two

W/N

07 Dec 2007 at 17:55 - 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Nerfs are bad.

Balance is good.

Get it straight for once!
qft.........

Dryndalyn

Dryndalyn

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

07 Dec 2007 at 21:21 - 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamial
Sometimes I wonder if they have a huge warehouse with pinatas hanging up, to relate to a skill or class, drink a gallon of the cheapest tequila, put on a blind fold and go nuts.
Ha, ha, ha! That's classic!

cthulhu reborn

cthulhu reborn

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

the Netherlands

W/Mo

07 Dec 2007 at 21:39 - 25
The word nerf does not equal good. If it is done right it can be good, if it is not done right it may be a detriment to the game.

To simply state that nerfs are always good is therefore incorrect by default.

Stolen Souls

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

07 Dec 2007 at 21:42 - 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Nerfs are bad.

Balance is good.

Get it straight for once!


Quoted again, for truth...

Saphatorael

Saphatorael

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

07 Dec 2007 at 21:52 - 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by azzer20
Gonna agree with Zinger some skills/spells has been nerfed to uselessness

but yeah nerfs are essential to the game
Nope, but yes. Balance is essential to the game, and nerfs are a component of that. Don't forget buffs, skill comparisons (Deep Freeze vs Shared Burden, why take one over the other, keeping the professions being used for either of those skills included), even NPC placement (VoD) matters.

MywayFtw

MywayFtw

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

Glob Of Ectospasm [GoE]

Rt/

07 Dec 2007 at 22:00 - 28
The only way a game would ever be balanced is if everyone has:

10 health
10 armor
10 energy
1 skill
1 class
1 race

Sounds pretty boring, doesnt it?

Draginvry

Draginvry

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

The Underground PvP Society (PVPS)

N/Mo

07 Dec 2007 at 22:08 - 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by MywayFtw
The only way a game would ever be balanced is if everyone has:

10 health
10 armor
10 energy
That's not balanced. I wouldn't have enough energy to use Backfire.

Steboy93

Steboy93

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Feb 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] | Ex-Officer [TAM]

W/

07 Dec 2007 at 22:20 - 30
Didn't Yanman post a thread like this a while ago?

Lorde

Lorde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

CCCP

R/E

07 Dec 2007 at 23:17 - 31
Nerfs are good.

Except when they nerf me.

Please, un-nerf Asscaster.

Wild Karrde

Wild Karrde

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

W/

08 Dec 2007 at 00:00 - 32
^ doesnt sound like you were being sarcastic so you might want to put on your flame retardent suite.

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

08 Dec 2007 at 00:19 - 33
Nerf's are good if you buff something that needs it.

Just constantly nerfing doesn't help much.

Now.
Reasons why the Ban Hammer is good are much more obvious.

Darmikau

Darmikau

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

Pun Goes [Here]

P/W

08 Dec 2007 at 01:09 - 34
As has already been said, yes nerfs are good, but people generally QQ because Anet goes over the edge with nerfing. They take skills that are being abused and don't just make them less effective, they make them utterly useless. Remember our good old friend "Incoming!"? Use to be a cream of the crop elite, now it's pointless.

Another reason is because of the PvP/PvE intertwine. Let's face it, Anet cares more about PvP balance than they do PvE, and they won't hesitate to destroy a nice PvE skill if it means PvP will be that much more balanced. People complain because skills that were totally fine for PvE now suck because some idiots thought it would be a good idea to abuse it in PvP.

The bottom line is, nerfs are good, Anet just needs to be better at making the right ones.

Biostem

Biostem

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2007

08 Dec 2007 at 01:19 - 35
To me, a 'nerf' is an uncalled-for weakening or lessening of something. 'Balance' is when something is changed for a good reason. The problem is that one man's balance is another man's nerf, and therein lies the problem.

When changes are made, it is rare that we learn the whole reasoning behind it - it's usually something like "changed due to an exploit" or "changed because it was under/over performing". When something is changed, the best response would be:

A. Have a PR/community liason post about why the changes were made and what they were designed to do.

B. State emphatically that no change is set in stone, and if good reason can be found to reverse or alter a change, it would be done.

C. As someone else pointed out, if an issue is a certain combination of skills, then figure out a change to target that undesired combo w/o affecting every other "acceptable" use of those skills.

D. [Admittedly hard to do] - Target those causing a problem, and punish the offenders, instead of punishing everyone for the deeds of a few bad apples.

KANE OG

KANE OG

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ogmios Graybeards

W/

08 Dec 2007 at 01:21 - 36
Still waiting for the GOOD reasons.....

KANE

Spike

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

In front of my PC

Kai

E/Mo

08 Dec 2007 at 01:22 - 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crom The Pale
Nerfs are bad.

Balance is good.

Get it straight for once!
But some people just don't get it. They don't want balance they want THIER build to be better than everyone esles so they don't have to change and any build that beats it must be nerfed. Nerfing is NEVER good if you think so you have NO idea what it means.

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

08 Dec 2007 at 01:23 - 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
What the hell? How is that post a troll?
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum or group with the singular intention of baiting users into an argumentative response.

- Opening post is pretty much textbook definition of trolling.