I want to create a PvE necro. I wanted it to be Prophicies-only skills for the time being. I want to get through this game then start on the others and make builds with other campaign skills, aswell. It will be related to an SS. It won't do much physical damage, but do hexing.
Attributes:
Curses 12+1+3
Soul Reaping 12+1
[skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mark of Pain[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill]
Then a hard rez.
Any suggestions?
I'll use Awaken the Blood till I can get SoLS
Need build help
Rexion
Chthon
Probably drop soul barbs. You're throwing around costly, long recharge, sticky hexes, not spammable ones like wastrel's worry.
Drop suffering. It's weak.
Desecrate is not fantastic, but it may be the best you can do for that role with Prophecies only.
Insidious parasite is OK for Prophecies-only, but it becomes an anti-combo once Reckless Haste is available, and Reckless Haste is far better.
DEFINITELY add Enfeebling Blood.
Although there is some argument as to whether it's worthwhile post-Prophecies (I personally am on the "not" side), there's no doubt that Arcane Echo is a big help for Prophecies-only SS builds.
I find Awaken the Blood boosting a well-placed SS or MoP to do far more damage than anything else you could add to your bar. Most folks around here seem disagree with me on that. Try it and decide for yourself.
Rexion
should i replace [skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill] with [skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill] then?
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexion
should i replace [skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill] with [skill]Awaken the Blood[/skill] then?
Try it both ways and see which you like better.
Moloch Vein
Your build as it stands now lacks a cover hex. Cover hexes are Good.
Use Parasitic Bond to replace either Barbs, Mark of Pain or Insidious Parasite. However as a "newbie" necromancer I'd really not want to drop Insidious. It does a great job making you stay alive.
Remember that Barbs and Mark will only help you if you run with physical henchmen.
Personally I'd drop Barbs. Yes, it's a wonderful spell, but it's more like a "kiss of death" on a single target. Pve is all about MOBS. With both SS, IP and MoP on your bar you'll have three echo-worthy spells for different situations.
And yes, I'm definitely in the "yes Arcane, no Awaken" camp. There are several reasons but more than anything, Arcane teaches you to play your role correctly and concentrate on the big bombs.
In a normal fight, especially in NM Prophecies, SS lasts for 21 seconds, which is enough to kill the target. Adding 4 extra damage (37->41) isn't worthwhile unless you're just going for Trash-Mowing Mindless Nuke (example would be the once very popular DoA LBfarm Veil SS nuker build, where I'd definitely bring it.)
Oh, and one thing - The build you have in your OP right now is fine. It'll work. I'm just being picky.
Use Parasitic Bond to replace either Barbs, Mark of Pain or Insidious Parasite. However as a "newbie" necromancer I'd really not want to drop Insidious. It does a great job making you stay alive.
Remember that Barbs and Mark will only help you if you run with physical henchmen.
Personally I'd drop Barbs. Yes, it's a wonderful spell, but it's more like a "kiss of death" on a single target. Pve is all about MOBS. With both SS, IP and MoP on your bar you'll have three echo-worthy spells for different situations.
And yes, I'm definitely in the "yes Arcane, no Awaken" camp. There are several reasons but more than anything, Arcane teaches you to play your role correctly and concentrate on the big bombs.
In a normal fight, especially in NM Prophecies, SS lasts for 21 seconds, which is enough to kill the target. Adding 4 extra damage (37->41) isn't worthwhile unless you're just going for Trash-Mowing Mindless Nuke (example would be the once very popular DoA LBfarm Veil SS nuker build, where I'd definitely bring it.)
Oh, and one thing - The build you have in your OP right now is fine. It'll work. I'm just being picky.
The Riven
Add SolS as well? but yes basicly what moloch said. People always seem to think of arcane as a ss only spell, it can be used on anything. That build will work very well indeed as long as you bring phys dmg.
horseradish
SolS is a Nightfall only skill.
I would suggest a utility skill like Plague Sending. I's always useful to bring condition removal.
I would suggest a utility skill like Plague Sending. I's always useful to bring condition removal.
The Riven
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
SolS is a Nightfall only skill.
Sorry i should take more notice of my posts.
As a starter build, thats very good indeed, should take you through nearly everything with little need to change anything.
As a starter build, thats very good indeed, should take you through nearly everything with little need to change anything.
boogerboy72
im not a fan of arcane echo and ss unless its special scenarios.
Tyla
i would consider using a minor curses rune, no heroes isnt good and -75 health is kinda bad 
The Riven
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogerboy72
im not a fan of arcane echo and ss unless its special scenarios.
Do we realy need to enter into this again?
I wont post links as i think this point has been made fully and does not need reopening here.
I wont post links as i think this point has been made fully and does not need reopening here.
Sethellington
parasitic out for signet of lost souls.
Fuzzy Taco
Quote:
parasitic out for signet of lost souls.
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SolS is a Nightfall only skill.
bolded for emphasis. as far as your build goes, i think everything i'd like to say has been said already. i agree with Moloch in that i like arcane echo, but no Awaken the Blood, but that's just me. throw in some of the skills suggested, play around with it, and see what you like / don't like.
horseradish
Why Awaken the Blood if you're not speccing points in Blood Magic?
Also, Superior Rune = bad. I suggest Minor Runes of Curses and Soul Reaping with a Curses mask thingy. Superior my ass. :P
upier
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
Why Awaken the Blood if you're not speccing points in Blood Magic?
Also, Superior Rune = bad. I suggest Minor Runes of Curses and Soul Reaping with a Curses mask thingy. Superior my ass. :P Omg you are such a noob! And your ass in in NO way superior to mine! You do like 6 more damage with a Sup rune! Sure you are a squishy with paper-like armor. And sure reducing ones heath will make all the baddies be attracted to you Michael Jacksons is to the maternity ward - BUT that's why we have monks for! Ohh and because its teh "omg!1!wtf!1uber-pwnage-lolollo.ooloololololololl"-skill one needs to send it out as much as possible which means one MUST get the radiant insignia also! Dude!11!
Chthon
To respond somewhat seriously to a not serious post,
1. If you must compare your asses, please do it somewhere else where I don't have to read about it. 2. The case for a sup rune on a SS build is much stronger than it is for other characters because of the way the SS (and MoP) mechanics work. For SS (and MoP), the extra damage from a higher attribute spec applies multiplicatively both per trigger and per adjacent foe. Let me illustrate this with some examples: +4 damage per cast on a single-target skill, like say Flare, is laughable. Definitely not worth -75 max hp. +4 damage on an AoE spell, like say Desecrate Enchantments, is fundamentally better. Assuming 3 additional foes adjacent to the target, you'd be getting +16 damage per cast. That's probably still not worth the health penalty -- at least not with only a +4 -- but it's an entire order of magnitude ahead of the the single-target spell. Putting that +4 damage to a per-trigger AoE skill, like SS (or MoP), is fundamentally better yet again. Assuming 10 triggers for SS and the same 3 additional adjacent foes, the net result would be +160 damage per cast. Obviously, the inputs are going to vary, so +160 is only a ballpark figure, but the multiplicative nature of the output is what's important, and that's not going to change. With armor factored in, most skills can't even do 160 total damage per cast, much less do so much damage that +160 would be a trivial addition. For that much damage on every cast, the sup rune is worth the life penalty. MoP has the same sort of multiplicative output. It arguably benefits even more from extra attribute points because a team with a minion master or minion bomber can realistically achieve a much bigger number of triggers. Awaken the Blood gives the same +2 attribute benefit as a sup rune (+2 more than a minor's +1) for the cost of a skill slot and a point or two of soul reaping. That's a lot more expensive than -75 max hp, but I think its often worth it too.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
Why Awaken the Blood if you're not speccing points in Blood Magic?
Also, Superior Rune = bad. I suggest Minor Runes of Curses and Soul Reaping with a Curses mask thingy. Superior my ass. :P I wouldn't want to include an SS necromancer on my team who blatantly refused to pull his own weight because he was more concerned with saving his skin. I'd pick one who actually knew how to play PvE and preferrably also knew how to position himself. Next you'll probably advise a minion master to go with DM 12+1+1.
upier
All fine and dandy - but if we consider the +4 on 4 targets 10 times which brings us to the 160 in the example - that still means we have around 30 * 10 * 4 base damage. Which means one lost 75 hp to do 1360 damage instead of of 1200.
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
The damage output is insane either way - and that loss of hp didn't cause such an huge difference that would instantly justify it! And on top of that - one also has the team doing additional damage. It plays an issue when farming (when things need to die as fast as possible since time = money!) OR when playing though PvE LIKE one is farming - but for normal play - the difference isn't THAT insane! Quote: I wouldn't want to include an SS necromancer on my team who blatantly refused to pull his own weight because he was more concerned with saving his skin. I'd pick one who actually knew how to play PvE and preferrably also knew how to position himself.
Next you'll probably advise a minion master to go with DM 12+1+1. Personally I'd kick the sup cursing necro. He's going to be one of the few squishes on my team - and I REALLY don't want him to be a bigger threat to himself and the party then he already is!
Moloch Vein
Minor runes make an difference when playing PvP or when playing through PvE like one is playing PvP, but for normal PvE play, the deficit of 75 hit points on a debuffer/nuker isn't that insane.
I never understood people who brought sub-par builds and configurations that do little damage just to feel supposedly elite since "I'm playing just like the big PvP boys do!"
IIIPowerIII
No sup rune in pve... wow... My necro "Always" Used 2 sup rune since the beggining of GW, did i died more than any other? no... I usually run Sup cure and Sup Soul reaping on my necro. In NM you're hp doesnt matter, if you're playing HM, you can remove sup soul reaping and sue minor instead. But use your Sup Curse...
Coloneh
no superior runes, not worth it.
needs moar parasitic bond, and probably some energy managment. try using auspicious incantation on your echoes version of SS with a few points in inspiration. could lose desecrate and enfeebling blood for those two.
The Riven
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
no superior runes, not worth it.
needs moar parasitic bond, and probably some energy managment. Seriously, was that sarcasm? Use sup runes. Kill things. SR will keep your energy toped up.
upier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Minor runes make an difference when playing PvP or when playing through PvE like one is playing PvP, but for normal PvE play, the deficit of 75 hit points on a debuffer/nuker isn't that insane.
I never understood people who brought sub-par builds and configurations that do little damage just to feel supposedly elite since "I'm playing just like the big PvP boys do!" Of course the deficit of 75 hp while farming isn't that bad. You're there to kill stuff. And that is what you are doing when playing what you consider "normal PvE". One is farming PvE. One is exploiting the stupidity of the foes to get though the game. One isn't getting better at the game - one just keep on doing the same thing - send in the "tank" - wait for everyone to focus on him - then move to the edge of the aggro bubble - and because the monsters are too stupid you can nuke away! So yeah - if one farms PvE - the sup runes are completely doable! But in that case - the rune wouldn't have much to do with me not wanting someone in my team (it would be a just a plus to kick you out sooner!). I'd not want them because because they still play like a beginner. Ohh and those sub-par builds and configurations - mostly start with having low hp! When things are fine - the low/high hp won't be an issue. Sure the damage one will do will be greater with a sup rune - but there are 8 people in your party. And you are trading off carrying their weight when things aren't an issue with them carrying YOUR weight when things do go wrong! It's because one isn't working as good in situations when that is required the most that the sup runes are an issue.
Moloch Vein
If you are not exploiting the stupidity of the foes in PvE, regardless of which configuration you are playing, you are the sucker. That is the entire point of PvE play - you are fighting monsters with a serious IQ deficiency that are somewhat compensated for this by being ridiculously overpowered as for their raw punch.
No matter if you are playing a tank-nuker-healer trinity or if you are playing an irregular configuration with no fixed line roles, this will always be the case in PvE. A person does not play like a "beginner" in PvE because he does not play it like PvP. If anything, the reverse would be true.
upier
My apologies - I should have used "to rely" (instead of exploit!) in there somewhere.
The problem is when people rely on the stupidity. And this is shown with the selection of superior runes. Stuff happens. Even in PvE. And it's the people who rely on certain stuff happening (or not) - that suffer the most. And why would I want such people in my team?
The Riven
Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
My apologies - I should have used "to rely" (instead of exploit!) in there somewhere.
The problem is when people rely on the stupidity. And this is shown with the selection of superior runes. Stuff happens. Even in PvE. And it's the people who rely on certain stuff happening (or not) - that suffer the most. And why would I want such people in my team? Do you honestly belive what you are typing or is this just some kind of odd trolling?
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
The problem is when people rely on the stupidity. And this is shown with the selection of superior runes. Stuff happens. Even in PvE. And it's the people who rely on certain stuff happening (or not) - that suffer the most. |
For necromancers in PvE in general, some stuff also happens when:
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And why would I want such people in my team?
Because it's the monk with those extra seconds of Aegis, the nuker with those extra points of damage, the warder with those extra points of armor in his wards, and the spirit supporter with those extra hit points on his Shelter and Union, that will help keep you alive so that you can run at the first sign of trouble.
upier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
A: The minion wall is reduced by 50% strength and it breaks up. B: The hexer doesn't have sufficient strength to take people down according to speed. C: The player does not have enough attribute points to successfully fill a secondary support role for the team. Because it's the monk with those extra seconds of Aegis, the nuker with those extra points of damage, the warder with those extra points of armor in his wards, and the spirit supporter with those extra hit points on his Shelter and Union, that will help keep you alive so that you can run at the first sign of trouble. |
B. Why should it be the hexers job to take down foes - rather then assist in taking them down?
C. Since when is 10ish (or the closest breakpoint) not enough to fill that secondary role?
Why would I use nukers for damage (once again - outside of places which are so easy that builds pretty much don't matter)?
Shelter/Union. This does not even deserve a question.
And are you seriously suggesting that a monk with a superior rune is a better choice then one without?
And do you think that with those kind of suggestions - the idea of "superiors are good" is becoming more credible?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Riven
Do you honestly believe what you are typing or is this just some kind of odd trolling?
Yeah I do believe it.
Any you know why? Because I am actually good at PvE.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by upier
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Quote: B. Why should it be the hexers job to take down foes - rather then assist in taking them down?
Quote: C. Since when is 10ish (or the closest breakpoint) not enough to fill that secondary role? Depends on what you mean by "enough". I frequently find a specced 11 or 12 in Earth Magic to be quite handy.
Quote:
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Why would I use nukers for damage (once again - outside of places which are so easy that builds pretty much don't matter)?
Is this a joke? Have you heard about the concept of PvE mobs? Quote:
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