Guild Wars?

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this but i feel this is a subject needed to be spoken.

This is long but i believe it has some great points worth the read imo.

Guild Wars is a very unique game the environment and style draw you to a place not too far from where reality once was the age of knights and wars where your honor was only as great as the sword you held.
But i believe Guild Wars is dieing, the population is at a steady growth but the game mechanics (wether technical or community) remains the same if not getting far worse by the day, very few people remain with the game long enough to appreciate what Anet seeked to accomplish and understand they fell very short of there original goal, when GW was first designed it was meant to be a game where your guild and your honor were valued more then your time spent farming or the items you hold. Today Guild wars has reached the point where armor and weapons are something only purchased after long staining hours of farming and selling to produce enough money or rank to achieve the item a game where excellent weapons are now easily available if you repeat the same story over and over (sounds like farming to me) and the items you hold and the mini's you own somehow resemble your skill in the game.
You might say I'm crazy for saying such things or for believing such nonsense but if you look at the general population you will see 50-70% of players never get past 3 lvl 20s that completed one campaign.. and those that do remain long enough have so much hostility and hatred toward diversity and new players that they lash out at questions that seem stupid or arguments that don't agree with there *exstencive all knowing knowledge*. Why you might ask as to the loss in population and dedicated players? I will tell you why, its because the game is limited. Like all games GW has a limit to its creativity and customization so its not the fact that it HAS a limit, its where the limit is.. yes its nice to have plenty of armor and items to chose from but no matter what eventually it will get old but the thing that woun't is the Character, the skills it uses the free will to chose your own style and what suites YOU best but in GW its not about YOU its about the class what is best for the CLASS what works well with the CLASS what looks best with the CLASS what the CLASS cant do.. there is the limit yes you have the choice to be different yes you have the choice to NOT use what is 1337 or what is determined *NEVER TO LEAVE YOUR BAR!* but its these choices *by some peoples standards * that determine your "usefulness" in the game
A game where too powerful builds are shunned and builds that seem or are less then par are declared "noob!" a game where creativity is limited to your name and armor color, A ((PC)) game where the population is some of the rudest improper dishonorable groups in mmo history, A game where being good goes only as far as the items you hold and the skills on your bar.
Games like WoW are the best for a reason. it has i think 8 different classes but each class has 3 trees to chose from extending the creativity and choices by 3 fold, GW as come a looonggg way sense its first release when the game first came out it was haled and liked for its unique play and quick climax but now..

The fact that a single class if not all classes can be ruled down to single builds/rules and uses is what is destroying the population. GW has Great potential the graphics item style and classic feel draws you in so quick its exstrodanary but as you reach the upper levels of play it because a very one sided game where there only one true healer and only one type of usable build that isn't considered noob by the community, so in the end its not the game that limits us its the use of 8 simple spaces on are screen. there's nothing wrong with limiting the amount skills we can use but there's everything wrong with limiting what skills are useful.

for example back when proph came out skills like Healing signet and sprint never left my bar not that that wasn't bad enough now not only have they created gimmick skills but the gimmick skills are better almost completely replacing the old ones aka lions comfort and Enraging Charge, those arn't the only examples either the list goes on for each class.
Dont get me wrong there nothing wrong with creating new skills buts its when you come out with better or gimmick versions of the same old stuff that it because idiotic.

Its easy to be good at what is already known to be good but
Its hard to prove the difference between proven good
and what has the potential of greatness.

i know GW is doing good and theres allot positive to be said about it and its far too late to fix now but with the release of GW2 i hope allot of these problems will find an answer.

Opinions?
I have allot more to say but for now thanks for reading.

Wrong place. This is the Lore Forum. Riverside is the place your looking for.

I agree. mostly

Although you are a bit generalizing. Like most games GW has a lot of hard core, really nice not-noobhating players. I for instance have 10 level 20s but I would never say a bad thing about a newb because I know we all had to learn once. In fact I really like to help out new players (as long as they listen :P ).

But yes, you're right. There are a lot of useless skills and the uber ones get nerfed. the skill balances in GW happen because of pvp and so there will be an always changing meta and thus always changing skills. In GW2 (how I long for it to come out) this will be resolved with the split pve/pvp skills so that every skill will be viable for PvE and certain ones will shine in PvP.

The fact is, WoW is a pve game. Their balances and skills are pve orientated which means they are less carefully corrected than GW ones. Instead of looking for what's too powerful against other players, they look for what's abusing the world and what bugs are being exploited. They also released all their classes at the same time which certainly makes a difference. Given the choice of both monk and rit for healing in the first GW chapter then the mix would be more equal. People would accept both for healing instead of mainly just monk. It takes time to work the kinks out of classes, sins are finally being recognized in pvp and slightly in pve. Had all 10 classes started out at the same time i think the pve scene would be more varied and mixed, not just trinity, trinity, trinity.

Also in a game like GW the ethic is that every player is potentially of equal skill and therefore competence. However ,as is human nature, E-peening is a part of life and thus people will always strive for rarer weapons, cooler armor and such. They are not content with just 5k armor and a tribal sword. To look the same as everyone else.

A real GW player would never assume that someone had more skill than another because he has a mini gwen or an eternal blade. I'd say in GW a good measure of skill are some titles, things like vanquisher, defender and that lot are hard to get and require good tactics (I know, don't tell me..) but that's not the final word. In GW there really is no true way to tell at a glance the skill or playing ability of an individual, just time invested.



p.s. ----------
you said there are more class options in WoW, due to talent trees and such. I disagree with this. In wow people normally spec down one certain tree, e.g a balance druid, a fury warrior. You're far more likely to have two identical talent trees in Wow than you are to find two identical skillbars in GW.

that one part is not true believe me im a HUGE WoW player lol my pally and fury warrior is one of the top 3 in the relm i may suck at GW but wow is a hole nother story =)
(tho i havent been on in monthsss due to NF / GW:EN releases.)
the classes are VERY varied. in my guild (one of top 10 guild in the relm =D) raids we have 1-3 warriors normaly a fury warrior a full def warrior and a backup tank/ mortal strike warrior and thats only warrior.. now that lvl 70 is possible and soon lvl 80 Druids now have alot more uses then spam heals there tank form and rouge from now do consideralble dmg/tanking tho nothing a warrior cant replace they still fit as backup or replacements for MIA players. look at the rouge the three trees on that class are deffently used or the mage? fire/arcane are two big fighters for most commin, and im alllwayyyss re specing my pally for solo/raids - PvP yeah WoW isnt as pvp orianted but that easly solved with a quick tree fix most of the time.
its not that wow has more gear or class specialization or "trees" its because there is no "best" fury warrior or tank warrior dosnt really matter epesialy when theres multiple warriors. In GW the best req you too use VERY specific builds I.E. D-Slash > Quizering Blade and that fact the "tanking" in GW is nonexsistant almost entirly killing what a warrior truely is might as well call it a heavy armord rouge..

I've only got a lvl 61 druid so I'm not uber knowledgeable. But I do think we're kinda lost comparing this to WoW. They're different games, not least because one is pvp orientated and one is pve orientated.

In GW pvp you're right, people all play the same build because the meta favors certain skills and so they emerge and become standard. However as a pve player mainly I can't say how much this is. I guess I was wrong about the similarity of skillbars if you look at pvp. But, If you looked at all the warriors going through the jade sea, some would play hundred blades, some dragon slash, some quivering...

Obviously builds and talents trees are different things too, talent trees and much more permanent. You choose it, you stick with it unless you're mega rich (which I guess you are :P ). In GW a build can switch a lot, meaning people tend to play something which really fits the situation. In GW you might switch to a fire based build if your in norn lands but it's not like you'd bother going frost mage just for one zone where it'll be useful. Perhaps high end stuff, but not just the normal areas.

ok so after my big ramble I guess I agree with you, you're more likely to get an identical build clone in GW than a talant tree clone in WoW . But I still think you're more likely to get a roughly similar talant tree in WoW compare to a roughly similar skill bar in PvE GW because GW simply has more choices (whether they're good or not is another story).

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I think, to have a conversation about how useful skills are compared to the rest and to talk about the limits GW has we really need to think about it as two separate games, PvP and PvE.

In PvE all skills are potentially useful, most actually can find their way onto someone's bar and be used to good affect, frequently (excluding the broken ones, e.g Wastrel's Collapse). The limits on creativity in PvE GW come from the expectations of other players in groups , they want a healing monk, a nuking ele (I play support ele, all the time) and they don't want you if you won't do it. However in WoW, although as nice as it is to have a healing priest, "a shadow priest will be fine as a damage dealer, the druid can heal instead" (in a low end instance). No one forces you to play something, but that's because of the difficulty of changing you tree, e.g respeccing.

However in PvE GW the one way to overcome the limits is to do what I do. Play with H/H! I never pug, I sometimes group with my guild, but I pretty much always play with H/H/. they don't complain if I play smiting monk or support ele. They also don't judge my usefulness on what armor i wear.

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I looked over you first post, and you've left out a lot of punctuation making it kinda hard to read, lol. I may have missed some of your points because of that .

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Can a mod please move this to where it belongs?

Thanks

Mazey

p.s. what server are you on, I'm on Zenedar? Vorstagg

Just another rant thread.

Oh good grief! And not even here a year?

Anyway, I wonder sometimes if maybe the PvP and PvE had been separate it may have made a big difference.
I don't play WoW but I do play Everquest2 and there is a server just for PvP.

The Necros there are not nerfed and there is more variety.
I agree that maybe all professions released at once might have helped.
We also have the AA tree lines for attributes and yes there also you generally spec down one tree. But there are more options.

Overall GW has changed so much. Maybe good maybe bad. Sure my favorite builds are nerfed. So -- oh well


In the end it has it's place in the gaming world.
I've just chosen to try other things.
Nothing against GW at all

Didn't need an account on Guru before March this year.

I know this is generally mrmango's line, but is this really lore? I mean, its more a rant than anything to do with lore. lol sorry mrmango, I stole your line, please don't yell at me XD

Yeah it's not lore. I'm waiting for a mod to move it, and for Thor to reply

Quite a good conversation though, less rant like than most rants. At least in Druid's Overlook you avoid all the jerks

First off sorry if it seems like im ranting because im not lol i LIKE GW i thinks its a great game i just think theres ALOT to be worked on, I didnt mean to get into a comparing wow - gw argument because yes there both veryyy different witch is a good thing. Im just trying to point out places Anet can make changes and places WE as players can be better for a hopfuly better enviroment better play game that is GW2.

Yeah i have 3 70s and im not "rich" exactly because i actualy spend alot on twinks and random stuff (savory delights *spelling* FTW!!!) but most of my money comes from raids, at lvl 70 raids you can make an easy 30-50 gold in 1-3 hours but alot of it goes to repaires if your guild isnt good or learning. Yes thats one reason I like GW the freedom to change whenever you want too but the problum is when you change your build from what is "best" you become a noob because you wanted something fun.. like running quivering in place of D-slash.

Yeah alot of builds in PvP arnt identical but theres a hell of alot of gimmicks lol i mean now a days im not suprised to find 2-3 monks all running the benidection build in pvp.. not to mention the unstopable derv build or the classic ox horn Sin build.

See theres a problum with GW you can switch the build but it doesnt exactly change HOW you play the class.. as a warrior it dosnt matter what weapon you use you still end up being a dmg dealer not a tank.. in WoW a different tallent spec often changes how you must play the class I.E. fury warrior compared to a defensive warrior.
Now Im not saying that GW needs to be like wow because im some wow fag ranting here about how holy WoW is better! im just useing it as an example to show how the classes in GW need to be thought out more.
Yes you ARE more likely to find classes that run the same in wow because in WoW you cant merge classes restricting stupid stuff like the ever popular VWK warrior.. witch is good because when you get a warrior in your group you know you got a WARRIOR tank/fury/arms hes still the same thing at heart not half monk trying to spam HB on every conditioned person on the team..

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Now i see where your going saying WoW = pve GW = PvP but thats sooo far off base its not a worth comment. Sorry but if you ask half the people in gw about how or what they play you would get PvE PvE PvE PvE espesialy with the release of classes like the derv who arnt very effective in pvp but in pve shine like the sun. Also may I remind you that WoW has some of the best pvp systems in the gameing world..? things like Alliance Battles are just gimmicks of what WoW has created, Alterak Valley (<WoW alottt like AB) and Gladiators arena (WoW alot like TA) are some of the best pvp systems ever designed you way not know alot about these but if your where 70 you probly would not to mention the PvP rewards for playing in pvp (witch GW dosnt have sadly) Like if you play Alterak Valley for a wile you get reputation and points witch you can spend to purchase GOOD items that can be used in both pvp and pve. Gw has that nice chest in HoH but thats for people who are HARD CORE with the guild and everything wile WoW rewards you even for playing one round in a random 4v4 pvp match (*forget Name* somthing alot like RA..) so to say wow = pve and Gw = pvp is very false, But i do agree there are not at all simaler.

yeah not pugging is a great solution but not the answer because if you H/H 24/7 might as well play a RP game because the MMO part isnt doing much for ya.

Now im not comparing wow > Gw im just saying theres alot to be learned from that giant, you say WoW is better because they released there classes all at once is a very unknowledge coment becauase with the release of "the burning Crusaide" exspansion pack that not only push the max cap lvl by 10 lvls but also added new races and classes to the pregsisting sides!! (alliance - horde) just emagine if Anet tryed to do that in a way pushing the max cap lvl to 30 and adding or switching around classes.. Chaos would break out! knowing anet it just wouldnt work and thats why they havnt done it. yes they released HOLE new classes and campagins witch is difficult enough but the way Anet realsed them was more about getting them to sell now and fixing them later rather then wait till it was really ready then realsing it at a apportune time.

now im not saying GW needs to copy WoW or be anything like WoW im just trying to show places where changes should be made. Its not at all about how WoW is better because i could have used 2moons or runescape two other monster games that have also acoumplished alot in there time.

Also I think GW2 should be solo based i like beging able to explore with out a 8 man team trailing me GW has some great senory please let me enjoy it just make the dungeos harder so you have to have a team to do dungeons but leave general pve to solo play. Its always nice to try and avoide farming but its hard to beat in the end > time spent = money earned that just the way of MMOs (and life at that matter) cant avoid it wether your doing a dungeon over and over to get one item or farming UW for some hefty ectos your still farming regardless of how big your team is.

well that enough for now
yes Sorry for english and spelling ishues im just terrible and this is my work comp so it has no auto or non-auto spell checker.

Sever = Mainly Alliance dethicaus my mains are there but i want to go horde badly i started alliance because my friends where on that server but most quit or dont play much anymore games like two moons and warhammer are to cheap and devistatingly fun to keep them hooked X( so i want to go horde the undead are beyond cool!
I think the name of my horde server is bloodstone but again i havent been on in mounths and IF my account still exsists X( il have to activate it again in order to play.

ever hear of Drayco or Sorchala?? there my mains and my alt hunter Dunndun (funny ass name long story lol)



haha real mature.. just more prof of how imature and rude the GW suciety is go visite a WoW or 2moons forums you NEVER get flames or trolling.. why? because the people are mature enough to know that if somones being stupid they can learn on there own and posting vulger/rude pictures or comments Wount help, And when they do they have mods that acutaly DO CARE about the way there forums/site looks and trolling and flameing is an instant 3day-perma band.
Or is it just becuase WoW has a age limmit that can be enforced via visa reqierd or ID req to purchase game on or offline...

Also if your IQ lvl is so low you have to post images to desplay your fellings aka
Cough* stormlord alex Cough* your honistly challenged beyond words. yeah i know my english sucks but at least I use it.

Seems?
People prefer to run what is most effective. Would you run a build you knew was greatly inferior in competition?
You have no idea. There are so many different ways in which the skills you use affect the way you play a profession. An Illusionary Weaponry Mesmer has to place himself at the front of battle. An Obsidian Tank Warrior eschews all damage in order to tank. A Ranger is so versatile it can wield any weapon effectively as well as perform the dreaded Touch Ranger build. Necromancers vary immensely from maintaining minions to laying down curses to BiPing allies. Ritualists can to total spirit spammers or focus on weapon spells and healing. Heck, even Monks can smite if they really want to.
Could've fooled me.
And you say Guild Wars has a problem? Nice one.

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Pugging is a last resort. If you have a good Guild and an Alliance, you can always find help from them.
Oh. Right. Then what is it you are doing?
You need a spell checker to tell you how to spell issues?

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Right. Never.
FYI I'm 21.
Pictures paint a thousand words, and honestly why should I give you anything more?
You can't spell, you're ranting about WoW>GW and then attempt to disclaim it, by saying you're not when it is obvious that you are.

Furthermore, you post it in the wrong section. gg. gtfo.

'

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haha your so cute ok lets play war.
well you may claim too be 21 but i dont see it anywhere.. o.0
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Ok i never said i Pug lol dont hate on me for somone elses comment, he said he always pugs i told him thats a waist.. so where do YOU come in?

Ok smart ass lets use 2moons then another game thats STILL IN ITS BETA but has more ratings and users then GW.

this is what it would look like if i WAS comparing the two..

2moons
pros
- easyly soloable but also very team
- easy to get rich and have fun do too the anti farm style (tho its still requierd a bit)
- penty of armor choices
- pvp is excelent both skills and style
- It uses a easy too use tallent trees AND a sort of build style.. funny conncept..
- enviroments are nice
- PvP rewards (if i remeber correctly but i havent played in a wile)
- cool personal selling shop for when your AFK (great idea)
cons
- no personel area aka free for all world
- armor and weapons cant be dyed
- not too much armor or weapon choices
- not a strong pvp game

GW
Pros
- armor is dyeable
- personel zones
- Ok pvp
- nice enviroment
- very team orianted (good/bad)
- alot of item choices
Cons
- not easy or greatly profitable to solo
- farming is very boring (VWK)
- pvp is unbalanced (aka derv suck at it wile warriors and ele are some of the best)
- skills are unbalanced
- selling and buying is a long painful proscess if you want a good deal
- the clases are unbalanced
- older chapmagins arnt as profiable (because NF and GW:en have items that are insc wile old champagines dont)
- the econimy is screwed (because farming is next to useless with loot scaling and serten items are worth more for no reason aka swords and there skins)
- Anet dosnt like to fix bugs or try to stable the econemy

Now thats comparing
Im not trying to rant im pointing out things Anet should fix for GW2 and hopeing they will lissen.

As for the skills thing
"You have no idea. There are so many different ways in which the skills you use affect the way you play a profession. An Illusionary Weaponry Mesmer has to place himself at the front of battle. An Obsidian Tank Warrior eschews all damage in order to tank. A Ranger is so versatile it can wield any weapon effectively as well as perform the dreaded Touch Ranger build. Necromancers vary immensely from maintaining minions to laying down curses to BiPing allies. Ritualists can to total spirit spammers or focus on weapon spells and healing. Heck, even Monks can smite if they really want to."

thats true but it dosnt prove what i said was entirly wrong I have most-likely been playing longer then you and so you dont think that occured to me? ok An Obsidian Tank is almost never used last time i sa one was when i ran Slavers. yes alot of classes are versitile and some builds do change the way you play but if you want to be good at GW you stick to what is the best witch for most classes isnt very variable, im not saying theres absolutly no change but for the most part not. for example- yeah the necromancer can summon or kill but every game has that gimmick class..
wow - warlock
2moons - summoner
Gw - necromance
there probly otheres but those are the only mmo games i play so i wouldnt know about others.

"People prefer to run what is most effective. Would you run a build you knew was greatly inferior in competition?"

Lol its not that thats best its that you cant really run anything else because you then will be "inferior" I like choice i like to be able to chose to do somthing different without giveing my enemey an ege on me just try runing a Obsidian Tank build in AB LOL that would be histarical but in other games running def isnt that bad and you do considerable dmg


now if i was ranting like every other thread it would look very different.
Il admit i got a little carried away in the OP but i wanted to get my point across some time people so blantly follow something they dont like to see the negitive in it.



--"Right. Never."
"Pictures paint a thousand words, and honestly why should I give you anything more?
You can't spell, you're ranting about WoW>GW and then attempt to disclaim it, by saying you're not when it is obvious that you are."

"Furthermore, you post it in the wrong section. gg. gtfo."-----

>>"FYI I'm 21."

this kid cracks me up!
FYI Im 21!!! OMGS!! lol your 21 but your makeing fun of my gramer like a 5 year old and tell me im not worth your time but you go and get a picture of google, post a quote war, and then tell me GTFO of my thread...
I LOVE YOU!
you made me laugh for a good 5 min honistly stick around.


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Smell that?
oh its your ass burning.

yeah im not saying GW = FAIL i just think theres alot to be done if GW2 is to be a success
yeah i hear ya im going back to WoW or 2moons (still decieding) im just sooooo tierd of get flamed out every time i post a build i know isnt 1337 but i found funnnnnn, just because its less dosnt mean its bad as long as your haveing fun who freaking cares (well people obviosly..)

You're a nightmare to deal with. Honestly.

Let's break your flame bait into easily manageable portions.

1. My age is quoted in my profile.
2. About the variety thing: You're not forced to run ZB Prot (for instance) if you're a Monk. There are plenty of other viable builds.
3. Farming is boring by definition. Farming is repetitive by nature.
4. This is the wrong section, don't even try to deny that one.
5. Your prose is retarded, yet somehow you attempt to insult me by saying that I'm 5 years old without proof.

English is obviously not your secondary language. So what excuse do you have for failing so hard at the language?

Are you done yet?

Yep, this topic ain't so good any more.

/locked ?

well i was fine talking to you, i didnt come here looking for a fight i just had some points and my friend gave me some points and i decided to post a thread about it.

Too bad you posted it in the wrong place...

Get out of my lore forums.

lol don't get so wound up mrmango. there are ways to do this without..well..flaming and being a jerk XD. Chill out dood!

Just wait until GW2 comes out, there will be more stuff and the old ones will get improved.

Might look more like a PvP oriented WoW...

Interesting idea, many things here I do agree with, to many which ones lol, not really wanting to type big long stuff atm. But the things that are wrong in GW now, and that cannot be fixed due to it being around so long now, I really do help anet fixes in gw2, even if it turns out I won't be buying it.

I have nothing against newbies who are willing to learn, but the noobs (yes, both words have different meanings) who act immature and try to get babysat through the entire game need to go drop out of school, get a job at MickeyD's, and buy WoW right away.

Don't rant about GW. This is not the place for it, anyway. ANet has worked incredibly hard on this wonderful game - count your blessings! Nothing is perfect, and for every game there will be people whining about builds and such. GW has rock-paper-scissors style gameplay, in that the aim of the game is to find builds that can conquer the builds of other enemies in the area. Whilst this is the aim, people should be free to do whatever build they want. Also, you are wrong in saying that most later areas require certain builds. I'm a guy who's henched Hell's Precipice with my ranger (no special build), my wammo (no special build), and my mesmer (no special build). That's right. Three times. What do you say to that?

Heh. What happened to Symeon? :P