Argh, having build problems

Vargs

Vargs

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Happy Fun Rainbow Adventure

Rt/

So I've been playing around with ranger builds for the past couple hours, and I'm not much farther than when I began!

Basically what I'm looking for is something that does nice single target dps with some interruption. I mainly play with H/H so condition spreading isn't very effective considering the fact that they switch to your target every time you shoot something else once to poison/ignite/etc it.

PvXwiki unfortunately doesn't really have anything useful.

I've been messing around and came up with something involving burning arrow and triple shot + conjure flame + a damage per arrow preparation, but I don't really think it'll be all that effective.

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill]Dual Shot[/skill][skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill][skill]Read The Wind[/skill][skill]Throw Dirt[/skill][skill]Resurrection signet[/skill][skill]Savage shot[/skill][skill]conjure flame[/skill]

Dual shot switched with triple when available. Flatbow for longer range/attack speed, with read the wind to hopefully help with the terrible travel time. Points into Marksmanship, Expertise, and Fire Magic. Could switch Lightning Reflexes with Rapid fire, as well as switch Read the Wind with Favorable Winds if I decide to buy GW:EN. It seems like I just won't have enough energy for all this though. I also don't like the lack of constant IAS (which could be changed with GW:EN, but spirits are so annoying to use).

No GW:EN, btw.

So yeah, help! >.>

Asha Rai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

Gone

R/W

This can be fun:

max expertise and marksmanship
[skill]Zojun's Shot[/skill][skill]Point Blank Shot[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][skill]Glass Arrows[/skill][skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill]

use a flat bow for this


pve skills like I am the Strongest and Great Dwarf Weapon help too

(zojun's shot and point blank shot do +42 dmg at 16 expertise and cost 5e, skill pictures are just out of date)
(Also, lightning reflexes recharges in 30 seconds, not 45)

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

Don't use a flat bow with savage shot use a recurve to get the best effect.It really depends on what you are trying to do there is apply poison, barbed arrow and kindle.You have your choice of interrupts.

Asha Rai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

Gone

R/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Age
Don't use a flat bow with savage shot use a recurve to get the best effect.It really depends on what you are trying to do there is apply poison, barbed arrow and kindle.You have your choice of interrupts. The arc of the flat bow is ok when you're at half range, and half range gets a bit small with a recurve bow, not to mention the slower refire rate.

MBP

MBP

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Arizona

Clanless Fraggers

R/Mo

If you're gonna use burning arrow...combine it with [skill]apply poison[/skill] instead of RTW it creates massive degen. You can put single targets down fairly quickly and move on to the next one.


Also having more attacks is better than 2 defensive skills...drop either lightning reflexes or throw dirt..or better yet use [skill]natural stride[/skill] instead.

add [skill]distracting shot[/skill] and you're golden

Conjure flame won't be needed at this point...the majority of your dps will come from the degen (also because it cancels natural stride). Swap it for [skill]troll unguent[/skill]

one more thing....recurve bow (poisonous if you prefer)

Washi

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]Savage shot[/skill][skill]Throw Dirt[/skill][skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]natural stride[/skill][skill]Resurrection signet[/skill]

One of my fav pve builds. You don't need to change targets to spread conditions.

you can swap [skill]Burning Arrow[/skill] with [skill]Broad head Arrow[/skill] when you are in caster heavy area (ooze pit)

And you should really consider using recurve bow.

distilledwill

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

Id agree with the above build, except ive been boning [skill=text]Broad Head Arrow[/skill] for a few days now and I love it, so I have a couple of adjustments:

[card]Broad Head Arrow[/card][card]Distracting Shot[/card][card]Savage Shot[/card][card]Apply Poison[/card][card]Epidemic[/card][card]Natural Stride[/card][card]Troll Unguent[/card][card]Resurrection Signet[/card]

It really owns with a MM player or hero, applying daze and poison to a target then transfering it to all other targets just means that when the minions get there, none of the casters in the mob can do anything. Its tasty.

I use a silencing bowstring, but you can just as easily use a poisonous one.

(This build works particularly well with Sabs 3 necro hero setup, vanquished several zones with no problems.)

Washi

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

I find Troll Unguent useless in pve. It has a 3 sec cast time so it cant save you in a critical situation. And if the situation is not critical, your monks should do their job just fine. Also you need high wilderness to make it worthwile, and you could pump your expertise and marks instead.

Throw dirt saved my necros many, many times in hard mode. Sometimes you see this melee train goin after one of your squishes and you know he's goin down if you don't do anything.

Wakka

Wakka

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Northern Ireland

R/

Quote:
I find Troll Unguent useless in pve. It has a 3 sec cast time so it cant save you in a critical situation I find it quite useful in hex heavy/condition heavy areas where it can relieve some of the degen pressure making the monks job easier.

But your probably right, its not needed so much on the bar ^_^

distilledwill

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

I find that the holy trinity of [skill=text]Troll Unguent[/skill], [skill=text]Natural Stride[/skill] and [skill=text]Mending Touch[/skill] make a ranger practically invincible, even in PvE (with little monk support).
I sacrifice MT for Epidemic with BHA and in combination with the 3 necro hero setup as the defense is so strong. But I still dont feel quite safe unless I at least have Trolls in there as a backup.

Wakka

Wakka

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Northern Ireland

R/

Mending Touch isnt that great in PvE imo ^_^ I normally just run an additional condition removal (and a hex removal) such as mend condition on the likes of an ele hero ^^ Can really help out.

Washi

Washi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
make a ranger practically invincible, even in PvE (with little monk support). lol... did you try hard mode? Regen skills mean nothing. Only thing it can do is counter degen, like wakka mentioned. Invincible?

I'm not saying this skill is bad, it's just not needed in pve. You can use this slot for pain inverter, or finish him. Troll is great for RA.

Arkantos

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

If you want single target dps and interrupts, use [skill]Apply Poison[/skill][skill]Burning Arrow[/skill][skill]Distracting Shot[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill] other 4 are optional.

RyXXed

RyXXed

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/

[skill]Kindle Arrows[/skill] is a good preparation for DPS in PvP, I don't know about PvE, but I think it might work. Especially if you are using Conjure Flame (you wouldn't need a Fire Bowstring).

I prefer Recurve Bows myself, they have the lowest arrow flight time and are mid-range (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Bow#Bow_Classes).

Moonlit Azure

Moonlit Azure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

You can add to your build:
[skill]kindle arrows[/skill] instead of [skill]conjure flame[/skill]

Then add [skill]mark of rodgort[/skill] and [skill]broad head arrow[/skill]

After that get a Mesmer hero with [skill]epidemic[/skill]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Washi
I find Troll Unguent useless in pve. Unguent has saved me many times! Its gread against degen, I just put on [skill]whirling defense[/skill] when I'm casting it!

( I would put on natural stride, but your enchanted!)

Wakka

Wakka

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Northern Ireland

R/

Mark of Rod is a bit energy intensive for a Ranger tbh, its a nice skill but try and slip it onto an ele hero or something?

Whirling Defense is not a very nice skill at all. 20 Second block time but 60 second recharge seems a waste of time really. Natural Stride only cancels when a enchantment is cast on you, it will still work if you have Conjure up when you use it.

Moonlit Azure

Moonlit Azure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

Oh, thats nice to know!

Mark of rodgort is pretty pricey, so putting it on Vekk(or some other hero) would be in favor.

Hard to coordinate though.

Although fevered dreams on Gwen could help a lot.

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

[skill]Read the Wind[/skill][skill]Prepared Shot[/skill][wiki]Triple Shot[/wiki][skill]Dual Shot[/skill][skill]Needling Shot[/skill][skill]Savage Shot[/skill][wiki]Weapon of Aggression[/wiki] [wiki]Ebon Battle Standard of Honor[/wiki]
~70 ranged DPS with a damage boost for the entire party

Amy Awien

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargs
... I mainly play with H/H so condition spreading isn't very effective considering the fact that they switch to your target every time you shoot something else once to poison/ignite/etc it. If you call their target, or point your heroes with target lock to a specific target they appear to stick to that target better, you'd need to do that anyway in situations where you monitor several casters.

Fire The Nutter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

UK

TFTK

R/

Its a shame no-one reads when you say no GW:EN......

I personally have run a fire/poison setup and its of course the degen that kills from than the actual damage. Playing with Sab's 3 Necro Heroes I found I was missing interrupts more than anything so I just run BHA, RTW, savage, distracting, epdemic, keen (been fixed now), res sig (sunspear sig actually).

Now i happen to run I am the strongest which is an easy +16 dmg which you wont have access to, perhaps something like favourable winds? (BTW get EoTN even if its just for the skills)

End of the day, what do you want to be doing? Straight out damage or interrupting? For me it depends entirely on the team setup.


Oh and as a side note, tried a R/A build recently, works quite nicely that, complete variation on how id played a ranger until now
jagged strike
wild strike
fox fangs (replacable offhand)
death blossom
impale (DW on a ranger hehehe)
assassin's promise
lightning reflexes
whirling defense (or utility)

Credit for R/A goes to Zerdonal of Rangers Beacon 2

Lourens

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[skill]kindle arrows[/skill][skill]prepared shot[/skill][skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill][skill]conjure flame[/skill][skill]mark of rodgort[/skill] > could this work ?

Wakka

Wakka

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Northern Ireland

R/

You shouldn need GoLE to be honest, Prepared Shot should be enough.

iridescentfyre

iridescentfyre

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lourens
could this work ? Well, of course it would work, but no one would ever want to use it because of this:

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill]

horseradish

horseradish

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

In a donut hole

Rt/A

Four skills for a bit 'o spikyness and burning?

I'd prefer [skill]Burning Arrow[/skill] with [skill]Apply Poison[/skill]

c199

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2007

Call your targets that should stop the ai from switching while you tab through enemies.

Vargs

Vargs

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Happy Fun Rainbow Adventure

Rt/

So I was playing around with builds some more, testing them out on the Master of Damage for around 2 minutes each. Using a typical Burning Arrow/Apply Poison recurve bow build (with Lightning Reflexes and Crossfire tossed in, damage-wise) I was getting only 36 DPS D: Got pretty low on energy even with 14 expertise too if I used crossfire much at all.

Using this next build (plus some other crap that doesn't affect damage) and a flatbow (since RtW negates the recurve's advantage), I was maintaining 47 DPS.

[skill]Heket's Rampage[/skill][skill]Vow of Strength[/skill][skill]Read The Wind[/skill][skill]Charm Animal[/skill] (Animal was only level 12 btw >.>)

Master of Damage only has 60 AL though, yeah? Seems like the first build is better simply because it still hurts armored targets. Damn. Although I guess one advantage to the second one is that it doesn't give enemies max degen, making other teammate's degen skills useless. Maybe the second one can pull ahead once I get enough faction to make "I am the Strongest!" and "Dodge This!" useful. But I'm not keen on the thought of grinding that just to see if maybe it's an ok build only to find that it isn't and the class isn't for me.

Meanwhile I jump on my moebius blossom assassin and do 78 DPS with more durability. Lulz? Maybe rangers just aren't cut out for this "damage" thing, which is unfortunate. I don't really want to play it as an interrupter, especially considering a hero can do that far better than my human reflexes and average 450-ish ping could ever hope to accomplish.

iridescentfyre

iridescentfyre

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargs
Meanwhile I jump on my moebius blossom assassin and do 78 DPS with more durability. Lulz? Maybe rangers just aren't cut out for this "damage" thing, which is unfortunate. I don't really want to play it as an interrupter, especially considering a hero can do that far better than my human reflexes and average 450-ish ping could ever hope to accomplish. No one on this forum has ever claimed rangers were cut out for a direct DPS comparison with a Death Blossom-spamming assassin. Rangers have terrible DPS... and trying to concentrate on increasing their DPS usually ends up with a bad build that another class could do better.

If what rangers are good at is not your thing, stick to your assassin. Though I should point out that while hero AI has better reflexes, they have no rhyme or reason to what they choose to interrupt or ignore. They'll hit a 1/4-second Reversal of Fortune, but miss a Fireball from a HM Elem that nearly wipes your group.

However what I do not agree with is that your assassin has better durability. I think I speak for all experienced rangers here when I ask: "Wtf?"

Btw: anyone know if the Master of Damage considers degen when calculating DPS?

Vargs

Vargs

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Happy Fun Rainbow Adventure

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
Btw: anyone know if the Master of Damage considers degen when calculating DPS? He does.

And assassins are hardly squishy.

[skill]critical defenses[/skill][skill]critical agility[/skill]

Easily beats natural stride imho.

Wakka

Wakka

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Northern Ireland

R/

Quote:
Although I guess one advantage to the second one is that it doesn't give enemies max degen, making other teammate's degen skills useless How is that even an advantage lol your basically saying that a Ranger is so good at achieving max degen that its making your other degen skills obsolete? THATS A GOOD THING! Infact its an amazing thing. Although 2 things to remember here.

1. If your Ranger is infact makin your other degen skills useless, TAKE THE DEGEN SKILLS OUT OF THE BUILD, NOT THE RANGER.

2. The actual chances of a Ranger achieveing max degen on an entire mob at once is very slim (ignoring Epidemic and Fevered Dreams). So even if you have additional degen in your build its probably not entirly useless as it will sort of fill in the gaps of where the Ranger isnt.

The entire idea behind the Burning Arrow/Apply Posion build that everyone one runs isnt DPS! It was designed to max out degen on NPCs and the Guild Lord in GvG solo, it just had such a great survivability factor and lots of degen which is why its popular in other areas of PvP and also PvE.

As for the 2 Assassin skills you posted, The first does not beat Natural Stride as it doesnt provide a speed buff, only a block, and the second has no relevance at all as NS doesnt even offer IAS :s

[skill=text]Natural Stride[/skill]

Also Merry Xmas

Moonlit Azure

Moonlit Azure

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

[skill]natural stride[/skill]=win.

Ranger's were never cut out for dps. The Ranger shines in its ability to consistently shut down the enemy as far as pvp goes and mostly pve.

My view on apply poison, burining is not of all degen, but it is to coax out heals and other spells, you eventually can predict when certian spells are cast.

Clarissa F

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Fighters of the Shiverpeaks

Me/Mo

personally, I prefer [skill]poison arrow[/skill] / [skill]kindle arrows[/skill], as the e-cost of kindle makes it more maintainable than apply, and I can always spread the poison degen better. Of course, I prefer Nundak's Recurve Bow, which adds that 33% degen time. Throw that on with the usual suspects(DS, Savage, NS, TU) and you pretty much have all areas covered.

anonymous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

16 expertise
10 marks
9 air/fire/water

Glass Arrows
Point Blank
Zojuns Shot
Concussion Shot
Lightning Reflexes
Whirling Defense
Conjure whatever
anything really

Plenty of damage, I don't like degen builds they don't do as much damage as I want to. Lightning reflexes I use mainly as an IAS, but the blocking is nice and I can use whirling after for a long period of block if I get a few enemies on me.

About 75 dps with Lightning, about 60 without, compared to about 40 dps of a burning arrow build. I find the build good for what I do, which is h/h.