i see a lot of mixed opinions on tanking and i was wondering something...Do you feel a tank is necessary or no?
What about in HM or elite areas?
bring a tank or dont?
boarderx
Tyla
dont, theyre baed
do damage!!
do damage!!
boarderx
what if you can hold aggro, do massive dmg, and absorb lots of dmg?
Stormlord Alex
Tanking characters are bad.
Taking aggro with a prot monk behind you isn't bad.
Taking aggro with a prot monk behind you isn't bad.
boarderx
ok what about this...
What would you guys define a tank as?
What would you guys define a tank as?
boarderx
well any type of aggro holding is tanking isnt it. a group should have a prot monk in it anyway. I ask these questions cuz i see so many bash tanks. Maybe i use the term tank different then most.
here my personal definition i guess...
Tank - some one to pull the mob and hold aggro. They generally have higher armor or self heals to help absorb dmg. They should be able to survive a couple seconds whlie aggro gets "locked" on them until the prot and healing monks get close enough.
the tanks build - should be set to help absorb dmg and counter any other distinct effects that would hinder the tank from proper tanking
i.e. - an anti KD skill
After the defense is set, work the rest of the build to deal dmg. Or in my case when i set for tanking...maximize dmg with as few skills as possible then round out the bar with some defense (works really well in my xp).
Perhaps i am just spoiled by having a solid guild/alliance that my view of a tank is slightly skewed from the rest of you. I PVE tank a lot with my derv and also in HM and i am strongly against the Obsidian Flesh builds, they are pointless (i dont DOA much so i cant vouch for that area). I just dont see what all the fuss is about for "NEEDING ob flesh especially in HM!" I guess im posting since i dont see the reason for all the tank hate but if im considering a tank something different from the rest of you then yes i hate tanks.
if you view tanks as someone that does no dmg and loads up on all defense then yes, i too dislike tanks.
if you view a tank as someone that can hold aggro and still do dmg then no, i do not hate tanks.
Tanking Slavers Exile is so much fun (but i honeslty havnt done much of it in HM since you can do it all in NM then do Duncan in HM), and by tanking i mean im hitting for 100s of dmg while holding aggro and also absorbing dmg letting the monks handle the rest of the party with little attention needed my way.
anyway, im a fan of tanking, dealing crazy dmg and making the job for the monks easy. but if you want me to run Ob Flesh, nty
here my personal definition i guess...
Tank - some one to pull the mob and hold aggro. They generally have higher armor or self heals to help absorb dmg. They should be able to survive a couple seconds whlie aggro gets "locked" on them until the prot and healing monks get close enough.
the tanks build - should be set to help absorb dmg and counter any other distinct effects that would hinder the tank from proper tanking
i.e. - an anti KD skill
After the defense is set, work the rest of the build to deal dmg. Or in my case when i set for tanking...maximize dmg with as few skills as possible then round out the bar with some defense (works really well in my xp).
Perhaps i am just spoiled by having a solid guild/alliance that my view of a tank is slightly skewed from the rest of you. I PVE tank a lot with my derv and also in HM and i am strongly against the Obsidian Flesh builds, they are pointless (i dont DOA much so i cant vouch for that area). I just dont see what all the fuss is about for "NEEDING ob flesh especially in HM!" I guess im posting since i dont see the reason for all the tank hate but if im considering a tank something different from the rest of you then yes i hate tanks.
if you view tanks as someone that does no dmg and loads up on all defense then yes, i too dislike tanks.
if you view a tank as someone that can hold aggro and still do dmg then no, i do not hate tanks.
Tanking Slavers Exile is so much fun (but i honeslty havnt done much of it in HM since you can do it all in NM then do Duncan in HM), and by tanking i mean im hitting for 100s of dmg while holding aggro and also absorbing dmg letting the monks handle the rest of the party with little attention needed my way.
anyway, im a fan of tanking, dealing crazy dmg and making the job for the monks easy. but if you want me to run Ob Flesh, nty
Proff
A tank is never mandatory, just with the case of most pugs it's usually the safest way to finish elite areas, as for vanquishing they're basically useless cause if you can't fight off a couple level 26's you shouldn't be in hm.
boarderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proff
as for vanquishing they're basically useless cause if you can't fight off a couple level 26's you shouldn't be in hm.
.
very true, lol
when vanquishing i usually set my bar for dealing dmg and then throw in some dmg absorbing for the initial aggro, my main concern is dealing dmg while holding aggro
very true, lol
when vanquishing i usually set my bar for dealing dmg and then throw in some dmg absorbing for the initial aggro, my main concern is dealing dmg while holding aggro
steel singer
boarderx, now I'm interested to see what kind of 'tank' build you have for you dervish then?
~ Dan ~
Blah Blah Blah.
In answer to the thread title... "No".
In answer to the thread title... "No".
Squishy ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by boarderx
Quote:
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Originally Posted by boarderx
if you view a tank as someone that can hold aggro and still do dmg then no, i do not hate tanks.
That's..a warrior. You pull and try to hold aggro while owning some serious face while you got monks(and passive defense from other partymembers) to keep you alive and kicking.
My 2 cents.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Tanks No
Warriors/Dervishs/whaterever that owns shit in the face yes
boarderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel singer
boarderx, now I'm interested to see what kind of 'tank' build you have for you dervish then?
its not all about a "certain build" it about understanding how your foes react to the aggro, knowing what skills they use and what to watch out for, and how to counter the things that are devistating to effective tanking (or aggro holding). i have many builds i use in different areas. Each maximizes the dmg potiential for that elite (or whatever would be the base of the build) then add in the most efficient self healing methods or dmg reducing methods.
when i tank i dont stand there and hope they keep hitting me, im C-Spacing my ass off and thumping them too. A guildie and i did a run to Duncan with h/h and made it to him in 15mins (if i remember right). When the aggro holds are done right the game is a breeze. With my guildies it isnt uncommon for us to do all of Slavers in about 2.5 hours. I keep bringing up Slavers cuz it is a prime example of what a good tank can help accomplish (and remmeber i mean tank as in holding aggro and hittin em hard, not a lame Ob Flesh bla bla). im asking these questions and making this post cuz i dont see why there are so many ppl bashing tanks when they can be very critical on getting things done easily. A tank doesnt have to sit and hope to get hit, i tank can do serious dmg as well. btw i love great dwarf weapon, lol
Turtle222
Tanking is bad. dervs can dish out nice DPS - why ruin it for them :'(
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
A tank is a tracked armoured combat vehicle designed to engage enemies head-on, using direct fire from a large-calibre gun and supporting fire from machine guns.
It does not say "Soak up enemy fire and be invincible" anywhere in that...
So yes, do try to tank please, AKA KILL STUFF
Nightow
This thread makes GW sound more and more like a FPS.
Don't we already have enough FPS?
Nyktos
tank (RPG)
1. Noun. A character with a bunch of defensive skills that is all but invincible but doesn't do anything. 2. Verb. To hold aggro for extended periods without dying. Definition 1 is a crappy character used by people who are bad at the game. Definition 2 is what all Warriors and Dervishes should be attempting to do, at all times.
MisterB
Tanks are bad because they slow down the party while the tank gathers aggro. In bad parties, or bad builds collected in a party, a tank can make the bad party think they are not bad. Body-blocking, on the other hand, is good in some areas, but that is a tactic independent of your build. See Stormlord's post, above. Also, why did you cross-post this thread?
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10234241
Coloneh
no
Originally Posted by boarderx
Quote: what if you can hold aggro, do massive dmg, and absorb lots of dmg?
you cant.
cellardweller
Yes I bring tanks, but only good ones.
Bad Tanks sit there like a lump and have bars like Obsdian flesh, stoneflesh aura, Mystic Regen, Vital Boon, Armour of Sanctity. Good tanks speed up killing by bodyblocking and concentrating the mobs in AoE while dishing out pain, leaving the job of protecting/healing to their monks. They have bars like Avatar of Lyssa, Eternal Aura, Mystic Sweep, Erimites Attack, Protector's Strike.
iridescentfyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by boarderx
Tank - some one to pull the mob and hold aggro.
Doing this is defendable, but rarely if ever "necessary." The reason you'd want to do this is as a convenience to the Elementalists in the party. Survivability is not the concern.
boarderx
Coloneh
that is not a tank, thats a melee character. a tank is something like an obsidian warrior designed to hold the aggro of every monster and only survive without dealing out any damage. keeping melee enemies off your backline is a different story
Pyro maniac
a tank bar looks like:
Stoneflesh Aura 3 defensive stances obsidian flesh 2 healing skills and another crap skill this is bad taking aggro is good however. Nothing wrong with going in with your melee char and being covered with a prot spirit and spirit bond. Mobs will waste some skills on you and then your party jumps in effective when fightning ice imps with henchman. 5 maelstroms on clustered caster group is pretty bad ..
boarderx
well then, i use the wrong lingo apparently
it just seems like a tank would be someone that can hold aggro whether they be defensive or offensive who cares just ping the build so i know they wont be useless. Well, i pretty much wanted to see what everone here considered a "tank" since i see a lot of tank bashing and if you mean all defense then yes that is crap. In my own lil world i guess ive somehow ended up calling a tank whoever can hold aggro (and what build they were using was a side note). Anyway thnx for the input guys, i wanted to clear up the definition of what you on guru call a tank. I still kinda disagree, lol, but to each his own.
Coloneh
theres really nothing to disagree about, you have the wrong definition of a word.
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by boarderx
if you cant then dont, i enjoy holding aggro and dishin' out large sums of dmg, my derv hits like a nuker at times i love it and has good survivability
Why don't you post your DPS against the Master of Damage? Because you can get way higher DPS when you don't have to resort to selfish defensive crap.
You can't see me
Why bring a tank? Because the creatures of mobs will mainly go for him if he runs in first. Sure, some migrate back to you, but in HM and elite areas, it's nice to have even one less creature on your back.
A mob of 7 meleers in an elite area that can do massive DPS on a bunch of casters is /fail.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by You can't see me
Why bring a tank? Because the creatures of mobs will mainly go for him if he runs in first. Sure, some migrate back to you, but in HM and elite areas, it's nice to have even one less creature on your back.
A mob of 7 meleers in an elite area that can do massive DPS on a bunch of casters is /fail. Passive defense defeats your argument. There is no good reason to have a tank.
cellardweller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
Passive defense defeats your argument. There is no good reason to have a tank.
To make Adjacent AoE's more effective. There's no reason to have tanks with self defense/self heals though.
Sir Pandra Pierva
The reason I can think of is for [card]Meteor Shower[/card]
Coloneh
A few front line character and/or a mm are better in every situation.
Darkside
Being that my main is a Dervish I'm often asked to "Tank" I don't play any differently then I normally do when asked to do so. In my opinion it's the job of front line (warriors/dervishs) is to try and prevent monsters from reaching the casters which I guess you could call tanking, but at the same time these monsters should be killed not just held there by idiots with stupid low dps.
You don't need a stoneflesh build to "tank" all you need is a good protection monk and a Paragon spamming There's Nothing to Fear! and Save Yourself! which basically turns your entire party into tanks.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside
Being that my main is a Dervish I'm often asked to "Tank" I don't play any differently then I normally do when asked to do so. In my opinion it's the job of front line (warriors/dervishs) is to try and prevent monsters from reaching the casters which I guess you could call tanking, but at the same time these monsters should be killed not just held there by idiots with stupid low dps.
You don't need a stoneflesh build to "tank" all you need is a good protection monk and a Paragon spamming There's Nothing to Fear! and Save Yourself! which basically turns your entire party into tanks. this is "holding aggro" which could be reffered to as "tanking" i guess. your character is still not a tank.
Darkside
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
this is "holding aggro" which could be reffered to as "tanking" i guess. your character is still not a tank.
I wouldn't claim to be...and I don't think I did in my post either.
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