By the title, I just mean, should all the professions have an equal amount of skills and elites. For example.
Elementalist currently reigns with 144 skills.
The other five core professions have around 138-143 as well.
Assassins and Ritualists have 110 total skills.
Dervishes and Paragons have 85 total skills.
When you look at the amount of useful skills though, there aren't really any. So many nerfs have made some skills become completely useless, such as Light of Deliverance. Since the nerf, I haven't seen a single person use the skill due to the two second casting time. The skill is now completely worthless in terms of effectiveness. It's basically a cheaper Heal Party.
Take the Swordsmanship attribute. It lacks useful skills.
Due to the fact that Dervishes and Paragons have around 50 less skills, there's less mechanics to work with. I have been UAX for a long time, so I would really find it fun and motivational to have to unlock a lot more skills just to have the ability to think. I mean, the only game they popped into was Nightfall, and Assassins and Ritualists got new skills with the upcoming release of Nightfall as a marketting plan, I know that much. Even though it bugs the heck out of me to have Assassins and Ritualists in Nightfall, but what about those with Nightfall. Do you think they'd buy Factions if the game provided Dervish and Paragon skills? Yes, I think they would. Now, you may say it'd mess up the mechanics and say that Dervish and Paragons are supposed to be Nightfall only, well, I thought the same could be the same for the Faction's professions.
As for elites, I'm not sure if all the professions have an equal amount of elites, but should they? Bottom line is, should all 10 professions share the same total amount of skills, such as 150? I don't know about you, but only having two different Spear elites and Scythe elites is a real bummer. Swordsmanship for warrior is an absolute bust, especially since there's way too many nice looking swords, but hardly anything to use with them. I don't know, just tell me your opinions.
Is it unfair, or fair to give all professions equal amounts of skills? In my opinion, it's fair and I'd like to see it happen. More thought would come into the game, more builds, new possibilities is always a good thing. If they are abusive and unfair, there's always the nerfing option to make them useless.... *cough* Light of Deliverance *cough*
Should All Professions Have The Same Total Skills?
Lady Raenef
Darkhell153
I was too bored to read through this highly developed argument...or more accurately too busy throwing forks at people. But I doubt this idea can be implemented at the current date since they're not adding any new skills and people will whine like kindergardeners if they take away the obviously useless skills *oh but I needed that one to make my utterly overpowered farming build work.* *But without that skill I'm only 99.9999999% invincible* sad world huh?
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Excuse me, I couldn't help overhearing what you were saying, primarily because I was about to kill you take take your cloak. ~Richard comics (sorry I just love the comics
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Excuse me, I couldn't help overhearing what you were saying, primarily because I was about to kill you take take your cloak. ~Richard comics (sorry I just love the comics
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JeniM
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Originally Posted by Darkhell153
I was too bored to read through this highly developed argument...or more accurately too busy throwing forks at people. But I doubt this idea can be implemented at the current date since they're not adding any new skills and people will whine like kindergardeners if they take away the obviously useless skills *oh but I needed that one to make my utterly overpowered farming build work.* *But without that skill I'm only 99.9999999% invincible* sad world huh?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Excuse me, I couldn't help overhearing what you were saying, primarily because I was about to kill you take take your cloak. ~Richard comics (sorry I just love the comics ) |
Ontopic, i don't think there needs to be equal number of skills for the classes to be balanced. Dervs and Paragons are as you stated the two classes with the least skills and yet they are two of the more powerful classes
Biostem
You have to keep in mind that the "core" professions, at least from how I've interpreted the ways professions have been handled, are *supposed* to have more skills at their disposal. It's not that the others aren't any good, it's that they fill niche roles and already benefit from what lessons have been learned from creating the core professions.
Think of it this way - if you bring your assassin to Prophecies, you aren't going to find any dagger drops. If you bring your dervish to Factions, you won't get any scythes - you have to be in their element to get drops you can specifically use.
Anyway, since you can also pick a secondary profession, and since you can change that secondary at almost any time, I really don't see this being a problem.
Think of it this way - if you bring your assassin to Prophecies, you aren't going to find any dagger drops. If you bring your dervish to Factions, you won't get any scythes - you have to be in their element to get drops you can specifically use.
Anyway, since you can also pick a secondary profession, and since you can change that secondary at almost any time, I really don't see this being a problem.
Arkantos
No, they shouldn't. All it would do is create more gimmick builds in high end PvP. ANet have a hard time balancing the four new professions as it is, more skills would just make it harder for them.
Chael
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Originally Posted by Biostem
Think of it this way - if you bring your assassin to Prophecies, you aren't going to find any dagger drops. If you bring your dervish to Factions, you won't get any scythes - you have to be in their element to get drops you can specifically use.
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While I would like to see these additional skills, I can only imagine what nearly doubling the skill pool of Paragons and Dervishes would do to class balance- many "overpowered" builds are dependent on only one skill. Not to mention that adding about 200 skills is a lot of content to develop with no expansion in sight.
Shayne Hawke
All they need to do is introduce less new skills for core professions in GW2 and release more skills for new professions, in order to keep them kinda going toward one same number.
What they really should do in GW is find all of the skills that nobody seems to be using them and change them to become a little more useful, to open up more options for different builds.
What they really should do in GW is find all of the skills that nobody seems to be using them and change them to become a little more useful, to open up more options for different builds.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
No, they shouldn't. All it would do is create more gimmick builds in high end PvP. ANet have a hard time balancing the four new professions as it is, more skills would just make it harder for them.
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nothing to add
Viruzzz
What more do you want? I don't think there's any skill missing from P and D.
They don't have as many useless skills as other classes either, no duplicates of earlier campaign skills. The skills they have are sufficient, more skills would mean you end up with a lot of duplicates or near dublicates (eg. a dumbed down elite like [wiki]Barrage[/wiki] and [wiki]Volley[/wiki])
They don't have as many useless skills as other classes either, no duplicates of earlier campaign skills. The skills they have are sufficient, more skills would mean you end up with a lot of duplicates or near dublicates (eg. a dumbed down elite like [wiki]Barrage[/wiki] and [wiki]Volley[/wiki])
-Loki-
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
Take the Swordsmanship attribute. It lacks useful skills.
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Selket
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
Take the Swordsmanship attribute. It lacks useful skills.
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Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
Take the Swordsmanship attribute. It lacks useful skills.
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Lady Raenef
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Originally Posted by Selket
Do you even know how to play warrior?
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Axe > Hammer > Sword
Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
Don't see sword in high-end pvp, do you?
Axe > Hammer > Sword |
Current Meta =/= Permanent Meta
Lady Raenef
I watch GvG's often, and even some HA just to see who's on top. I don't recall ever seeing a sword warrior used more.
Shock axe is the most popular. I don't see a shock sword.
Shock axe is the most popular. I don't see a shock sword.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
I watch GvG's often, and even some HA just to see who's on top. I don't recall ever seeing a sword warrior used more.
Shock axe is the most popular. I don't see a shock sword. |
every now and then i see a d-slasher in gvg
Lady Raenef
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
every now and then i see a d-slasher in gvg
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So, I'll stick to sword sucking balls.
Sha Noran
Old school Charge Sword with Plague Touch and Final Thrust is one of the best Warrior builds of all time. Let's not forget about Conjure Crip Slash, which was so powerful that the Conjure mechanic had to be changed to restore balance.
I would also like to point out, for the lulz, that the Warrior in your avatar is wielding a sword.
I would also like to point out, for the lulz, that the Warrior in your avatar is wielding a sword.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
Every now and then.......case closed. ¬_¬
So, I'll stick to sword sucking balls. |
shock axe spike/pressure combo FTW!
Lady Raenef
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Old school Charge Sword with Plague Touch and Final Thrust is one of the best Warrior builds of all time. Let's not forget about Conjure Crip Slash, which was so powerful that the Conjure mechanic had to be changed to restore balance.
I would also like to point out, for the lulz, that the Warrior in your avatar is wielding a sword. |
That's because I love swords, but that doesn't mean I play with swords. I mainly play Axe or Hammer, because mind you, that Helmet is an axe helmet. Just wielding a sword for the picture.
Dragon Slash is useful to an extent. I have a decent tank build that does effective damage with it, but it's more tedious to play than Shock axe is. That's how I roll.
In comparison, sword sucks. You people are thinking of PvE (as usual) or something? I hardly ever play PvE. And when I do, I still use axe.
Anyhow...the discussion is not about how bad Swordsmanship is (because it is) but more rather, if professions should balance out skill totals. I just wanted opinions and to see how others felt about it. If you lost credibility because I said sword lacks, then you lacked credibility for your opinion to matter. As sword does indeed...suck.
Brother Mhenlo
The best build ever in guild wars was a sword warrior build, there could be no hamstorm with no hamstring.
Selket
Cripslash is still rape, there's just no need for it in the current meta.
Lady Raenef
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Originally Posted by Brother Mhenlo
The best build ever in guild wars was a sword warrior build, there could be no hamstorm with no hamstring.
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Brother Mhenlo
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Originally Posted by Brother Mhenlo
The best build ever in guild wars is a sword warrior build, there could be no hamstorm with no hamstring.
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You can't see me
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
Every now and then.......case closed. ¬_¬
So, I'll stick to sword sucking balls. |
No, the sword doesn't suck balls, the players do.
Swordsmanship is a very useful attribute. It is the part of the two of three that can inflict deep wound and bleeding, and it can do something that the others cannot. Cripple Unconditionally. It takes half a brain to put together a useful build using a sword. Most PvP players are half a brain short of that.
/Fail.
Selket
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
No, the sword doesn't suck balls, the players do.
Swordsmanship is a very useful attribute. It is the part of the two of three that can inflict deep wound and bleeding, and it can do something that the others cannot. Cripple Unconditionally. It takes half a brain to put together a useful build using a sword. Most PvP players are half a brain short of that. /Fail. |
Lady Raenef
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
No, the sword doesn't suck balls, the players do.
Swordsmanship is a very useful attribute. It is the part of the two of three that can inflict deep wound and bleeding, and it can do something that the others cannot. Cripple Unconditionally. It takes half a brain to put together a useful build using a sword. Most PvP players are half a brain short of that. /Fail. |
Are you seeing what I'm seeing? Obviously not.
Selket
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
*still notices there's no sword warriors in high-end PvP*
Are you seeing what I'm seeing? Obviously not. |
.defekt
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No, the sword doesn't suck balls, the players do. Swordsmanship is a very useful attribute. It is the part of the two of three that can inflict deep wound and bleeding, and it can do something that the others cannot. Cripple Unconditionally. It takes half a brain to put together a useful build using a sword. Most PvP players are half a brain short of that. /Fail. |
owait, you must be a pro pver, so your pro sword bar must include healing breeze, bane signet, and of course no elite. Gtfo, please.
EDIT: Oh, and Raenef, go watch vZ on obs. Rank 5 and they run Dslash. Pretty RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sure thats high end. You're dumb.
Gift3d
The newer classes have less total skills, because they have not been around for as many new content releases such as campaigns as the core classes do.
I would agree that there are a bunch of totally useless paragon/dervish skills that still desperately need to be buffed. I'm hoping that comes with time, because it has with (mostly) all other classes useless skills.
Burning shield...? Come on.
I would agree that there are a bunch of totally useless paragon/dervish skills that still desperately need to be buffed. I'm hoping that comes with time, because it has with (mostly) all other classes useless skills.
Burning shield...? Come on.
-Loki-
Guys, give it a rest. Trying to talk to someone who is bad at the game about balance is pointless.
Selket
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
Guys, give it a rest. Trying to talk to someone who is bad at the game about balance is pointless.
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Its talking at
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Sha Noran
Don't see high-end pvp, do you?
Current Meta =/= Permanent Meta |
Sword isn't that great in the current meta, but that doesn't mean it sucks. As others have said swords have been used, and have been very effective. I guess you haven't been playing too long, seeing as conjure cripslash warriors were in the meta not too long ago.
Scary Raebbit
More stuff for them to half-ass balance. Don't need more skills.
And sword was great. Just cause it isn't used much in the meta now (because of defense webs and the inherent lack of getting a DW in the first hit), doesn't mean that it has always been bad.
And sword was great. Just cause it isn't used much in the meta now (because of defense webs and the inherent lack of getting a DW in the first hit), doesn't mean that it has always been bad.
natural sugar
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
...decent tank build...
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Bryant Again
There's way too much shit in the game as it is. Keep it simpler, please.
That's like saying a "good healing ranger build."
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Originally Posted by natural sugar
Wait a minute...
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Operative 14
I sort of agree.
I love playing Dervish, and I'm quickly learning to like Paragon. However, I can see why they wouldn't have an equal number of skills as the core proffessions.
Though, I think that they should be brought up to equal standing to the Factions only proffessions in a lot of respects, including the number and variety of skills. Perhaps they could introduce this at the same time that they introduce Canthan, Luxon, Kurzick, and Shing Jea armor sets for Paragons and Dervs....
I love playing Dervish, and I'm quickly learning to like Paragon. However, I can see why they wouldn't have an equal number of skills as the core proffessions.
Though, I think that they should be brought up to equal standing to the Factions only proffessions in a lot of respects, including the number and variety of skills. Perhaps they could introduce this at the same time that they introduce Canthan, Luxon, Kurzick, and Shing Jea armor sets for Paragons and Dervs....
Lady Raenef
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Originally Posted by natural sugar
Wait a minute...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Operative 14
Perhaps they could introduce this at the same time that they introduce Canthan, Luxon, Kurzick, and Shing Jea armor sets for Paragons and Dervs....
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MirageMaster
all skills should have just+1 to damage, now that would be nice no need for more nerfing or buffing. bwahahaha...
MisterB
Whether or not they should have the same number of skills is not at all relevant to whether they ever will. They won't. ANet's focus is now on GW2, and they are not adding any further skills. I'd rather they spent time balancing skills for GW2. Second time's the charm, right?