Just a little theoretical discussion on the placement of the chapters/expansion that have been released for Guild Wars. This is by no means a "I hate GW:EN" or "Too bad it didn't happen that way" thread. My concept is pretty simple, what if GW:EN had been released after Prophecies? (with none of the player basis having any knowledge of Factions and Nightfall) would GW:EN have been such a major let down?
For starters I'll discuss a popular/beaten dead horse topic the "reskinned" armors. Now armor in specific plays on a couple of levels, many people bash GW:EN on the armor alone, there for disliking the entire expansion to an extent. Yet was it simply because new armor was what they were most looking forward to, thus most let down by? Perhaps people would find Asuran armor for warriors much more appealing when compared to having only access to the Prophecies armors? It is largely possible that the downfall of GW:EN was the success of its predecessors in the GW product line. So after my brief example, because as you all know there are many other aspects to discuss (such as lack of PvP content and what not), my question to you is (this really only can be answered by the original 05 players) would you have enjoyed GW:EN more if it were released after Prophecies, prior to the experiences of playing Factions and Nightfall?
To answer my own question I'll say Yes. For that time period the graphical update enough would be astounding. (You have to remember at it's debut, GW was somewhat state of the art in it's graphical prowess) Not to mention the introduction of solo quests, titles, heroes, armors, amazing weapon skins, and all that stuff. For someone fresh out of Prophecies back in 2005, GW:EN would seem like a godsend.
If GW:EN came before Factions and Nightfall
Nevin
Lady Raenef
They shouldn't have used so many reskinnings. I grinded until rank 5 Ebon Vanguard the day the game came out only to discover that the cool armor that they wear and one character was wearing in the Eye of the North preview trailer, wasn't obtainable. Instead, I got the female monument armor...that's there today. A huge let down.
Though, not all armor was reskinned. Norn and Steel Eagle were unique in one way or another. Especially female Steel Eagle.
Though, not all armor was reskinned. Norn and Steel Eagle were unique in one way or another. Especially female Steel Eagle.
-Loki-
The inability to get Ebon Vanguard armour was the only disappointment I found with the new armour.
ensoriki
Factions armor is still the best.
Croco Clouds
I'll stick with my norn ranger armor... forever!
Kakumei
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Originally Posted by Lady Raenef
They shouldn't have used so many reskinnings. I grinded until rank 5 Ebon Vanguard the day the game came out only to discover that the cool armor that they wear and one character was wearing in the Eye of the North preview trailer, wasn't obtainable. Instead, I got the female monument armor...that's there today. A huge let down.
Though, not all armor was reskinned. Norn and Steel Eagle were unique in one way or another. Especially female Steel Eagle. |
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
The inability to get Ebon Vanguard armour was the only disappointment I found with the new armour.
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
Factions armor is still the best.
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Originally Posted by Croco Clouds
I'll stick with my norn ranger armor... forever!
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Would Eye of the North have gotten such a cold (no pun intended) reception, had it come before Factions and Nightfall? I'm not certain--it's radically different from Prophecies in many, many ways--perhaps even different enough that people may have said "this is what GW became? screw this" and not 'waited' for Factions/Nightfall.
Hell, the difficulty jump alone would likely have turned off an enormous amount of casual players--Factions was more difficult than Prophecies, no doubt, but certainly not to the extent that parts of Eye of the North are.
-Loki-
Which parts of EotN are difficult? I would like to play these areas,
Kakumei
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
Which parts of EotN are difficult? I would like to play these areas,
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Vinraith
It's difficult to answer the question for me because I like GWEN, more than Factions and, if you discount the fact that NF added heroes (the single most important improvement in the game IMO) and just look at the campaign itself, more than Nightfall.
If it had been released before them, and then they'd followed, I think I would have been a lot more disappointed with Factions and Nightfall than I was at the time, actually.
Oh, and reskins or no GWEN has some of the best armor in the game IMO. When you can make a reskin that looks as good as some of those, I really don't care that it's not a new mesh.
If it had been released before them, and then they'd followed, I think I would have been a lot more disappointed with Factions and Nightfall than I was at the time, actually.
Oh, and reskins or no GWEN has some of the best armor in the game IMO. When you can make a reskin that looks as good as some of those, I really don't care that it's not a new mesh.
lutz
If GW:EN came before Factions and Nightfall, there would be no Factions and Nightfall. Nobody would buy any expansion afterwards.
Stolen Souls
If GW:EN came before Factions, Factions would have looked a WHOLE lot better to me when it was released.
Bryant Again
I'd assume there'd be a much, much larger uproar over the PvE skills and titles.
upier
If GWEN came out before Factions or C3- I'd buy it.
If I'd like it - now that is tougher.
Factions was the time when I was most fascinated by GW - although that was probably caused BY Factions since I LOVED the way the Ritualist played in that time. When C3 came out I was already a bit bored of the thing - BUT I still got my hands on the CE version of it. I actually bought it - had it delivered - and the first thing I did was dash to GWO to see other peoples impressions of it! I then played it - and hated it. It was part the whole northern African influence that I hoped would be MORE Egyptian like - part the insane grind for Lvl7 Sunspear. So I actually stopped playing C3 until they removed the R7 req!
So keeping in mind - how I feel about the mechanics of C3 and the fact that (form what I hear) a lot of them are implemented in GWEN - I'd imagine I'd dislike it also if it was released C3-ish time.
IF it was released Factions-ish time on the other hand - I have no idea how I'd feel about it. Since Factions made GW the game that it is for me personally - and without it - who knows if I'd even be still playing!
BUT at least I'd BUY GWEN if it was released at those dates!
If I'd like it - now that is tougher.
Factions was the time when I was most fascinated by GW - although that was probably caused BY Factions since I LOVED the way the Ritualist played in that time. When C3 came out I was already a bit bored of the thing - BUT I still got my hands on the CE version of it. I actually bought it - had it delivered - and the first thing I did was dash to GWO to see other peoples impressions of it! I then played it - and hated it. It was part the whole northern African influence that I hoped would be MORE Egyptian like - part the insane grind for Lvl7 Sunspear. So I actually stopped playing C3 until they removed the R7 req!
So keeping in mind - how I feel about the mechanics of C3 and the fact that (form what I hear) a lot of them are implemented in GWEN - I'd imagine I'd dislike it also if it was released C3-ish time.
IF it was released Factions-ish time on the other hand - I have no idea how I'd feel about it. Since Factions made GW the game that it is for me personally - and without it - who knows if I'd even be still playing!
BUT at least I'd BUY GWEN if it was released at those dates!
strcpy
I would guess that, yes, it would be about the same.
So far none of the chapters or the expansion has gotten a large amount of griping compared to other games. Most people who are going to post on a message board are there for one of three reasons: to socialize, to help others, to gripe. Note that two of those generally do not have much griping and *none* of them tend to be praise. It would mostly just shift around who is griping.
In the end, I rather find the amount of griping going on to pretty much be "noise" - that is, it is simply that you can not please everyone and this is the place where we are pushed to go gripe about things. You simply can not make a perfect game - look at Upier who wants GW to follow the lines of the least popular chapter for it to be "perfect". While it is for him we all know how much griping went on at its release, I probably wouldn't be here if Nightfall was another Factions (and the Ritualist is, by far, my least favorite character).
I will also note that the vast vast majority of gripers are still here so the game must not really be as bad as they make out (I rather suspect a large part of that is that most of the gripes - like reskinning for armors - are MUCH more rampant in every other game out there).
So far none of the chapters or the expansion has gotten a large amount of griping compared to other games. Most people who are going to post on a message board are there for one of three reasons: to socialize, to help others, to gripe. Note that two of those generally do not have much griping and *none* of them tend to be praise. It would mostly just shift around who is griping.
In the end, I rather find the amount of griping going on to pretty much be "noise" - that is, it is simply that you can not please everyone and this is the place where we are pushed to go gripe about things. You simply can not make a perfect game - look at Upier who wants GW to follow the lines of the least popular chapter for it to be "perfect". While it is for him we all know how much griping went on at its release, I probably wouldn't be here if Nightfall was another Factions (and the Ritualist is, by far, my least favorite character).
I will also note that the vast vast majority of gripers are still here so the game must not really be as bad as they make out (I rather suspect a large part of that is that most of the gripes - like reskinning for armors - are MUCH more rampant in every other game out there).
Longasc
We would have loved GWEN. Still, we would have said that it lacks content, not too many areas.
But it would have had Insignias, Inscriptions... on the other hand, title grind as core concept of the game, with many imbalanced pve only skills tied to it.
I really like GWEN - in many ways, it is the pinnacle of GW. But on the other hand it was rushed, too short and introduced many things that make me fear for the direction GW2 might be taking!
But it would have had Insignias, Inscriptions... on the other hand, title grind as core concept of the game, with many imbalanced pve only skills tied to it.
I really like GWEN - in many ways, it is the pinnacle of GW. But on the other hand it was rushed, too short and introduced many things that make me fear for the direction GW2 might be taking!
Lady Raenef
If this was the case, honestly though, the game physics and design wouldn't be as great as it was upon release. You're looking at Factions or Nightfall being that game that 'wows' you with it's design.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Kakumei
...it's radically different from Prophecies in many, many ways--perhaps even different enough that people may have said "this is what GW became? screw this" and not 'waited' for Factions/Nightfall...
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I would just shudder what Factions and NF would have become if PvE only stuff became standard so much earlier and wouldnt be there to see that.
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Worst thing would be that Inscriptions, Insignias and Heroes would have gotten so much positive feedback that anet would thing that it was ALL success, anyone complaining about how "soul" of game was destroyed would get drowned in "hey, they gave us X, be happy and shut up"
Redfeather1975
Yeah, I think people would have liked EotN if it came out that way.
But then they'd say Factions and Nightfall were reskins and lacked mini-games and quest originality.
And they'd be thankful that Factions and Nightfall toned down the whole raise faction rank to power skills and craft items/armour thang. lol
But then they'd say Factions and Nightfall were reskins and lacked mini-games and quest originality.
And they'd be thankful that Factions and Nightfall toned down the whole raise faction rank to power skills and craft items/armour thang. lol
Sub Frost
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Originally Posted by Nevin
would GW:EN have been such a major let down?
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Regarding the "If GW:EN came before Factions and Nightfall", it would make no sense to bring an expansion pack in the middle of releasing new campaigns, but then again this is only My opinion.
ekamdu
the fact that it would probably have been a good game 2 years ago is probably the reason why it isnt now... it has all been done, and better...
i think i would have loved it 2 years ago... but sadly enough its not 2 years ago anymore, and i expected way more than this piece of crap... only good thing about it is more titles... (sucky titles, but nontheless titles...)
*yay title hunt*
i think i would have loved it 2 years ago... but sadly enough its not 2 years ago anymore, and i expected way more than this piece of crap... only good thing about it is more titles... (sucky titles, but nontheless titles...)
*yay title hunt*
Phoenix Tears
i think it would have been storywise better... to compete first all the open questions of campaign 1....then to make that first years after the release of the 1st campaign...
IlikeGW
GW:EN isn't even selling well now, it would have been a disaster as the first release after prophecies.
Darkobra
Yes. Paying £40 for such a short, lacking expansion, even compared to Prophecies, was disappointing enough. In fact, the only good thing it could have given us was heroes.
Clarissa F
I think it's kind of moot for one reason. EotN wasn't made only as a regular expansion. It was tied into the storyline of all games, and meant as a bridge to GW2. To talk about a release after C1, you have to ditch the Hall of Monuments. You get rid of the dervish, sin, ritualist, and paragon heroes, with all the drops. You get rid of Gwen(after all, if you stuck with timelines, it would have been maybe a year or two after C1, which would make her 11-12. Get your minds out of the gutter). It wouldn't be the same game. It would be less challenging, considering all the skills that would be removed. It would have even less content, and wouldn't be worth 20 dollars, much less 40. It would have ONLY been a grind fest for those elite armors, and would have been cursed much more for that.
The point was to give us a look at things to come, to see where the storyline was headed. It sets up the rise of the Asura, the beginning of Charr domination, the wrap-up of the Dwarf storyline, and the introduction of the great dragons which will be the main arc of GW2(take a look at Drakkar Lake from a certain view, or the hill in the Vanguard Quests area).
To ask this what if, you should ask, what if they released ANY expansion after C1 instead of after C3. They wouldn't have had the idea of EotN then.
Just my opinion. They are like a$$holes: we all have them, and most of ours stink.
The point was to give us a look at things to come, to see where the storyline was headed. It sets up the rise of the Asura, the beginning of Charr domination, the wrap-up of the Dwarf storyline, and the introduction of the great dragons which will be the main arc of GW2(take a look at Drakkar Lake from a certain view, or the hill in the Vanguard Quests area).
To ask this what if, you should ask, what if they released ANY expansion after C1 instead of after C3. They wouldn't have had the idea of EotN then.
Just my opinion. They are like a$$holes: we all have them, and most of ours stink.
-Sonata-
Ok, only my personal opinions here.
I feel the way it's been done was the right way. It's almost like coming full circle. I've only recently got EoTN. A Christmas gift to myself from an extra paycheck. I know a lot of people, for whatever reasons thought it was a let down, or throwing money away, but so far I'm loving it.
Maybe it's because I take my sweet ol' time exploring every nook and corner, or reading every line from every NPC; I don't know. All I do know is I've always been a player who enjoys immersing myself into the story and with GW:EN it feels as though I've returned to Tyria many years later after the defeat of the Lich. It feels as though, after my journey's through Cantha and Elona, I've returned to the legendary world that started it all to face old enemies and new ones. It feels as though some of the questions that went unanswered for me at the end of Prophicies are starting to show their answers.
While I will say I was expecting more of a challenge so far (have only been playing it for about 9 days now and just earlier finished the Norn area) I do find there is an added "umph" to the difficulty level compared to Prophicies. Just enough to keep me on my toes, but not so much that it makes me frustrated.
So to answer the question, No. I'm glad EoTN was released when it was. Like I said, for me, it feels as though I've returned home, to where it all began, after many years of being away, to write the final chapters in the saga.
I feel the way it's been done was the right way. It's almost like coming full circle. I've only recently got EoTN. A Christmas gift to myself from an extra paycheck. I know a lot of people, for whatever reasons thought it was a let down, or throwing money away, but so far I'm loving it.
Maybe it's because I take my sweet ol' time exploring every nook and corner, or reading every line from every NPC; I don't know. All I do know is I've always been a player who enjoys immersing myself into the story and with GW:EN it feels as though I've returned to Tyria many years later after the defeat of the Lich. It feels as though, after my journey's through Cantha and Elona, I've returned to the legendary world that started it all to face old enemies and new ones. It feels as though some of the questions that went unanswered for me at the end of Prophicies are starting to show their answers.
While I will say I was expecting more of a challenge so far (have only been playing it for about 9 days now and just earlier finished the Norn area) I do find there is an added "umph" to the difficulty level compared to Prophicies. Just enough to keep me on my toes, but not so much that it makes me frustrated.
So to answer the question, No. I'm glad EoTN was released when it was. Like I said, for me, it feels as though I've returned home, to where it all began, after many years of being away, to write the final chapters in the saga.
You can't see me
What a lot of people are missing is that it wouldn't be exactly the same if the chronological timeline was different.
If GW:EN was released before factions or nightfall, inscriptions wouldn't exist until factions, being that they were introduced in the third released campaign. Also, many of the rarer skins would not exist, with the convenient absense of the Paragon, Assasin, Dervish, and Ritualist, which means no Voltiac Spear, no Saurian Scythe, and other rare whatnot for those professions. Those skins would have been introduced until factions and nightfall.
Also, heros would not have automatically come either. GW:EN would have been changed drastically, because factions now would have been the campaign that introduced these lovable AI operated players. This means that Gwen, Vekk, Ogden, and Pyre would have been henchman.
Not to mention, with this out of the way, the armors for nightfall and factions are much less likely to be reskins, as they are complete campaigns and require much more attention, and cannot be skimmed over like ETON was. Who knows. We may have even seen the Utopia.
But I don't get why this is up for discussion. This really isn't constructive argument, as no one can really go back in time and change the order of things to make it better. It's all QQing about reskins and people who think heros ruined the game.
If GW:EN was released before factions or nightfall, inscriptions wouldn't exist until factions, being that they were introduced in the third released campaign. Also, many of the rarer skins would not exist, with the convenient absense of the Paragon, Assasin, Dervish, and Ritualist, which means no Voltiac Spear, no Saurian Scythe, and other rare whatnot for those professions. Those skins would have been introduced until factions and nightfall.
Also, heros would not have automatically come either. GW:EN would have been changed drastically, because factions now would have been the campaign that introduced these lovable AI operated players. This means that Gwen, Vekk, Ogden, and Pyre would have been henchman.
Not to mention, with this out of the way, the armors for nightfall and factions are much less likely to be reskins, as they are complete campaigns and require much more attention, and cannot be skimmed over like ETON was. Who knows. We may have even seen the Utopia.
But I don't get why this is up for discussion. This really isn't constructive argument, as no one can really go back in time and change the order of things to make it better. It's all QQing about reskins and people who think heros ruined the game.
Lawliet Kira
Wait wait but isnt gwen like...15-20 years in the future since gwen is all grown up...and then it wouldnt make any sense because nf/factions arent in the future
Nevin
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Originally Posted by Sub Frost
I thing u forgot "for me" on the end of that sentence.
Regarding the "If GW:EN came before Factions and Nightfall", it would make no sense to bring an expansion pack in the middle of releasing new campaigns, but then again this is only My opinion. |
Other then that something I would like to mention is that it is true that if GW:EN came before NF and Factions, neither of them would be the same way that they are now. That in itself though, would be an entirely different discussion. This isn't so much about converting GW:EN to a 2005-06 release either. If it were released with everything it has now, with heroes/insignias, all of that.
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Worst thing would be that Inscriptions, Insignias and Heroes would have gotten so much positive feedback that anet would thing that it was ALL success, anyone complaining about how "soul" of game was destroyed would get drowned in "hey, they gave us X, be happy and shut up"
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Originally Posted by Clarissa F
It was tied into the storyline of all games
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Tender Wolf
Hmm...well I can't really be a fair judge since I didn't start playing until last year. But from what I've experienced, I can see things going both ways. Yes, GWEN takes place in Tyria years after the original Prophecies campaign (and the others as well), so it would be sticking to the original storyline in a way. I did enjoy GWEN except for the title grinding. And yes, the reskinned armors were a let down. Many people were looking forward to those, and if GWEN had come out before Factions and Nightfall, it would be like two back-to-back games with the exact same armors that looked slightly different. So I guess what I'm saying is that GWEN might have been less of a success had it been released before the other two campaigns due to lack of variety, even though it's sticking with the original concept.
-Loki-
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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf
I did enjoy GWEN except for the title grinding. And yes, the reskinned armors were a let down. Many people were looking forward to those, and if GWEN had come out before Factions and Nightfall, it would be like two back-to-back games with the exact same armors that looked slightly different.
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wetsparks
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Originally Posted by Nevin
...would GW:EN have been such a major let down?
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Rhedd
I'm with Vinraith. I love GW:EN!
I positively hated Factions (the scenery is pretty, but a story where I get the privilege of being Mhenlo's sidekick is... ungood.) If I would've played GW:EN before Factions, I would've ABHORED Factions, instead of just hating it.
If there was a worse word than "abhor", I'd use that instead.
I think that anyone that seriously dislikes GW:EN needs to just admit it's time to move on to a different game. GW:EN is, in my humble opinion, the most fun game to PLAY, out of all of them. If the sole reason you're playing is for new leet armor, it's time to get a life.
On a side note, I really love the way people complain constantly about the grind for titles, and also say how they're looking forward to GW2 soooo much because it'll actually have level progression like other MMORPGs.
I'd explain why that amuses me, but contemplating the whole subject makes my head likely to explode.
I positively hated Factions (the scenery is pretty, but a story where I get the privilege of being Mhenlo's sidekick is... ungood.) If I would've played GW:EN before Factions, I would've ABHORED Factions, instead of just hating it.
If there was a worse word than "abhor", I'd use that instead.
I think that anyone that seriously dislikes GW:EN needs to just admit it's time to move on to a different game. GW:EN is, in my humble opinion, the most fun game to PLAY, out of all of them. If the sole reason you're playing is for new leet armor, it's time to get a life.
On a side note, I really love the way people complain constantly about the grind for titles, and also say how they're looking forward to GW2 soooo much because it'll actually have level progression like other MMORPGs.
I'd explain why that amuses me, but contemplating the whole subject makes my head likely to explode.
Joshthor
i would hate if eotn came before factions and nightfall, i mean, its better in the short term, but anet is stupid and wouldnt add new armors for dervish, rit, paragon, and assassins; just like they did with the added on campains
Solus Spartan
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
Yes. Paying £40 for such a short, lacking expansion, even compared to Prophecies, was disappointing enough.
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Redfeather1975
But factions had the best models and skills Rhedd.
It did. You cannot deny it. So there!
P.S. It did.
It did. You cannot deny it. So there!
P.S. It did.
-Loki-
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
But factions had the best models and skills Rhedd.
It did. You cannot deny it. So there! P.S. It did. |
sindex
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I'd assume there'd be a much, much larger uproar over the PvE skills and titles.
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Bryant Again
It's really that sudden transition that would be especially dangerous. To be so proud of the "skill > time spent" motto and then have it be nearly turned around in almost a year would turn off many a player. At least they settled into it, kinda, I guess.
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by Solus Spartan
Yet you pay double for factions. Irony?
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