For LDoA

Besides completely missing my point (which is an extreme suggestion; I know it's just my opinion and won't ever be allowed near the game), I really don't see how you interpret the fact that a few players found a way, within the confines of the game, to do what the developers themselves considered impossible as some sort of spiteful "WUTEVA, I DO WUT I WANT" teenage posturing. They were told they couldn't do something. Without hacks or third-party programs, they did it anyway. Good for them and their insane amounts of patience/fortitude. I don't have it, I don't understand it, but I don't see it as arrogant or bratty.

Just tossing that out there.

On topic, gatemonkeying in Pre is such a non-issue that I'm gonna stay /neutral. I don't have a permapre and I doubt I ever will. You can easily get 50g killing Charr in Pikens even if nothing good drops. If people want to charge for opening the gate or pay to have the gate opened, more power to em.

And nothing said about the Charr will make the dev team want to put in a level 12 or 13, so /neutral there too.

So, knowing that he was supposed to leave Pre-Searing by about 8th level, he chose to spite the intent of the creators and prove he could get around them with this exploit. Then, unlike every other exploit ANet decided to reward this one instead of swing the nerfbat. They created a title to reward something done to spite their intent because this player specifically said, “Post, ugh, whatever, I do what I want – I will go be god of Pre.”

105 to 120k is not easily obtained. And that is what is needed to acquire HoM qualified armor flexible enough to run the variant builds appropriate to differing circumstances which a warrior may face. At 14th level 50g per 1% of exp toward 15th is 5k for one level. Up reaching 15th that doubles, so 10k to reach 16th. At this point you only have death leveling. So, to work on this title one is expected to pay 15k acquired in 1-4 gp drops for their title. No, I do not want to pay for gate RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs when the money is needed for game function (armor, weapons). The money available in game is by far totally pathetic in consideration of the costs of acquiring titles (treasure hunter, wisdom, etc.) and armor – not to mention that drops that will fit the characters appearance (culture and armor) in weapons and off-hands will have to be purchased because They will not drop for the person seeking them.

That is why I am discussing the inordinate amount of bull called death leveling – required for significant advancement after level 14. It is that unentertaining time-wasting/electricity-wasting crap which ought to Inspire the dev team to place the additional Charr in Pre-Searing Northlands.

I dont see how money is an issue, because first of all, the price you have to pay for that title isnt even a problem. If you think <100k for a title is expensive, wait till you look at some of the other ones. For Treasure hunter, the cheapest you are going to pay (unless you sit in town all day buying keys for a little cheaper) is 6,000,000 gold. Sure, you might get a little back from merching and selling mods, but if they are low end keys they will more than likely be merchant fodder. Besides that, you will more than likely get at least 50g by just killing the dang charr you have to level off of.

And do you think the developers really saw characters achieving level 20 in presearing as an act of spite? I think not, otherwise they obviously wouldnt have implemented a reward for such a bratty "tld u i culd do it" act. Apparently they were impressed that someone found a way to do something that the developers presumed was impossible and in turn rewarded them for their achievement.

Even if they did change it, how do you propose they compensate for the people that have already earned this title? Should they cheapen this ridiculous title like this, it will just lead to another QQ'ing thread from people who got LDoA the hard way.

The people who this title was made for never expected to be rewarded for their endeavors. That is who the title was made for. They are not going to change the title for title seekers like you or I.

I would strongly reccomend you just go for the Legendary Survivor title, you get the same benefit and dont miss out on anything other than four words of text and a number under your name. You are wasting your time.

Fitz, you sound like an intelligent person. Why can't you use that intelligence to see the waste of time you are making out of this. The people who got to level 20 in Pre-searing before there was a title did so not because of spite. They did it to do something 'not possible'. It was a challenge, and they beat that challenge. It took time, creativity, and patience. Anet rewarded that. Anet did not reward the 'spite', but the ingenuity required to figure out HOW to do something 'not possible'.

You want the 'not possible' to become not only 'possible' (which was done long ago), but you want it to become 'easy'.

All keys are crap. They are a 1,500g ticket to a purple mesmer item. I have never gotten anything of use from a chest. They exist solely and only as a gold sink, with a title to motivate people to throw away their gold for more of the same useless mesmer crap, or another lesser guardian spear of insignificance. Having experienced and observed this for months upon months I see ablsolutely no purpose in buying keys. My opinion of the Treasure Hunter and Wisdom title tracks leaves them as something that may accidently happen on my characters in the year 2525, when some descendent is playing for kicks. I do not see them as worthwhile or achievable. They are also on my hit list. If I find a key I will use it to get the extra hundred gold it brings in from merch fodder. If it is worth more than 300g I immediately merch it because I am aware that nothing of equal value will ever come from an attempt to use it. This is something those seeking the titles ought to address.

No, I do not get 50g from killing the 4 Charr I have to level with. I occasionally see an item worth over 20 from one of those in the way. And this will not allow me to purchase my armor and equipment when I post. Nor am I so idiotic as to buy armor from several venders only to attempt to replace it three maps later. If you are going to put up wood-slat Venetian blinds, but you cover your windows with bed sheets, then upgrade from bedsheets to cheap curtains, then upgrade from cheep curtains to décor curtains, then add in roller blinds, then finally get at long last your wood slat Venetians – all you have done is increase the cost of the wood slat blinds by the purchase amount of all the others.

What someone sees through rose colored glasses is immaterial – we have the statement from those who did it which describes this position fully.

Since these people do not care at all about their fellow players and are too self-centered to bother seeking to establish what is right they deserve no compensation and no consideration. Their expressed anti-social behavior in a need to establish superiority, force others to suffer their pain, and prevent change for the better has already cheapened the title. Only through these change can the title be partially redeemed.

No one should ever expect to be rewarded for their endeavors. That is only false hope in fairness and justice. And the path to the title may yet be made more enjoyable and functional, though I expect nothing positive from ANet in this.

I have a character working on Legendary Survivor, the son of the character working on LDoA. And no, I do not get the same benefit. The meaning of the two terms is separate. I do not confuse meaning for a word. Meaning exist beyond a word, just as liberty exists beyond a statue. And I fully agree, the system they have created is only meant to waste time and prevent meaningful play.


There is a difference between possible and entertaining that has nothing to do with easy. No I did not say we should get 5 billion xp everytime we kill a Charr in Pre-Searing. But that would certainly make attainment easy. I did not say we ought not to fight things or do things to get the title. The amount of time used in death leveling, setting, etc. is inordinate. Currenly it is 1 trip to kill 4 Charr for 1% of the move toward 15th level. After that it will be two trips to kill Charr for 1% of the move toward 16th level. After that it will be mindless grind for hours upon hours stealing time that could be spent in meaningful play with several other players. If we have to go through this bull crap in order to attain the title the least they could do is set the gate guard to open the damn place so we can get in and do it without having to beg for a "nice guy" or pay a gate RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO. If they were to add the Charr I requested it would at least allow play to 18th level before being forced to death level for a much smaller period of time.

Yes, someone one found an exploit in the system around the intent of the game creators. When they did so did they report the exploit so the game designers could nerf it and keep the integritty of their intent? No they did not. They shared the information to increase the number of people exploiting to undermine that intent. ANet chose to reward the exploit rather than nerf it, unlike nearly every other exploit in the game. And so, when they "rose to the challenge" of what they pre-knew was not the game designers intent, and which the game designer said was not possible - was it not to prove it could be done. To spite the intent, harm the integritty of the existing milieu? And certainly the only reason to argue to keep it as is comes from pure and unadultered spite: an intent to see others suffer because they have and didn't have the guts or gumption to insist on better.

The promotion of sucide as a solution of advancement ought to be anathema and is in violation of the purported intent of promoting human value within the games they sell and support. But this is what the nature of death leveling is all about. Ofcourse the game designers did not intend this to be the case, they have merely allowed it to happen out of neglect in considering the ramifications of meaning in the act. Nor, from testimony by those who initiated - did they ever conceive of it as possible; which is ofcourse why they did not prevent it to begin with. Can they correct this? Yes. Do I expect them to do so? No.

Leaving pre-searing at level 8 is just a recommendation. That's the point at which you can easily advance further in the game in post-searing (or at least it was. They did make PvE easier with the introduction of HM, so I don't know how accurate that is now). It wasn't spite that made the person or persons who chose to remain behind and figure out how to do the impossible. It was love. People love pre-searing. That's why they stay. The title is just a bonus. It's something that plain old title hunters like you or me could not understand. And when people don't understand something, they generally attack it, which is exactly what you're doing.

Uhh. I may be misunderstanding something here, but I'm going to assume that you are up to the point of deathleveling for the title. If you're only deathleveling 4 charr at a time, then it's going to take awhile. Try multiplying that number by 3 or 4, and you should cut your time taken to get the title by a significant amount.

Just as a little note, that is not true. The highest amount of xp you can get from quests (if you are a necro primary or secondary) is around 10650xp. That leaves close to 2000 xp you'll still need to deathlevel.

Anyway, I would be all for this idea. The main reason I am against most LDoA suggestions is because of the survivor thing (one title may not seem like much, but it is still one title. Just imagine the outcry), which this idea has already covered. But I'm not really bothered by the points raised. 50g is not hard to come across, and deathleveling doesn't really put you out all that much. Just do it when you go out, or when you're asleep, and you won't be bothered by it. Also, I feel like the OP attacking the guys who took the initiative to find a way to get to level 20 in presearing to be childish at best, and it really doesn't reflect well on himself or his idea. Presentation is key, and you're not presenting yourself very well.

The person claiming to have discovered it was quite clear they were disgusted with Post and preferred Pre. That could be considered love, I hold love to a higher standard than that. I am not concerned with the reason they ran back to Pre. Some did it because of the serene terrain, some because of no DP, some because expectation is low where there are no missions, some for general nastalgia, some because they could treat it as SIMs and go dancing, etc. ANet learned their lesson and never again created a self-contained PvE starter area with no influence from the remainder of the game. And understand - I am not attacking the title whose meaning I exalt, but the protection of the time and energy consuming process for attaining it - a process that also inspires Gate Hookers.

I am currently 14th level - I am not yet forced entirely to death level - but death leveling would be faster than what is generally available. By hunting the 4 bosses I get 1% each trip, half that ofcourse next level. At 16th level I will get nothing unless I death level. One can ostensibly death level 6 groups relatively easily, but then it is hell trying to kill a score of Charr with 3+ Shaman and 5+ Hunters. I find doing thre groups at a time reletively optimal; which is not to say enjoyable or efficient.

Just getting access for the 300 trips to cross from 14 to 16 is 15k. That is a piece of elite armor. There is nothing in Pre that should casue someone to need that much. This is on only one person. Further, where does the gold go? If you open the gate 20 times in an hour that is 1k. By the time you have helped 20 players go from 14 to 16 alone you have made 300k. There is no storage, so where does the money go? Ebayers? When I am in Pre and someone calls for a gate hooker I offer to take them for free. Right minded players, who are on the same side of the war, ought to be assisting fellow players for free - or they are no less than mercenary traitors.

Yes, I will be bothered by it. And I only leave the house about twice a month.

One should not mistake disapproval of actions with disapproval of actors. One is more than the sum of their deeds. I have nothing to hide in the flowery lies of diplomacy and tact for I am already known. I am not here as a popularity contest for the bold and the beautiful cliques of some highschool hallway, neither am I shallow upon my self-conceit. There is nothing pretty in the true world, only delusion that dark currents do not flow through every highlight. So, when someone presents themselves truly, those praising shadows upon a Den wall are uncomfortable.

The entire fact there is a title is stupid to begin with. I don't like the fact ANet ruined it for us back in the day by taking death leveling away and making a title for it. There was no reward for doing it, it was about just doing it.

/notsigned

Personally, you might consider deathleveling at night, between Charr boss runs. It would make the time go slightly faster. I used to pull 3 or 4 groups myself, killing any shaman beforehand. I couldn't be bothered pulling any more than that, and I doubt it would make too much difference.

Even if you are only getting xp from the bosses, there are at least 3 groups of Charr around the shrine that you should kill to make it easier to get to the bosses. Those groups should drop more than enough to afford to 50g for a gate monkey.

You will more than likely make that money back when you leave pre if you're smart. If you don't waste your money on black dye for your starter armour, or spend heaps on little things that the perma-pre crowd like to get, then once you reach level 20 you should have at least 30k. That's around how much I had when I got LDoA. I wasn't smart. I didn't sell my black and white dyes before leaving, nor my charr bags (which were still worth 5k each when I went through). You can then do a gold trade. That is where most perma-pre's money goes. They trade pre gold for post gold, usually at a ratio of 1:2 nowadays (so for each piece of pre gold you trade, you'll get 2 in post). Just make sure you don't get scammed (either find a trustworthy trade moderator to hold both party's gold until the trade is completed, or insist on getting your money in post before handing over the money in pre).


Well, there are other things you can do to make it slightly less painful. You could leave the deathleveling till you go to bed, and just play another character or continue doing boss runs during the day. Or, if you have more than one computer, or a particularly powerful one, just set up the deathlevel and spend your time playing something else, or watching a movie, or reading a book. The latter is the one I chose, and there were a couple of upsides to it. One of these is that I got my LDoA much faster, and the other was when I finally got it and went to post, the game felt so much more enjoyable for me, since I had not played properly in two months.

Let the people who are godly enough to afk this title have it, don't let people who don't want to deal with death leveling have the title known as the death leveling title.

Don't change something that isnt broken plz.

I won't pay the corner candy for access to the Northlands. No one should have to pay for access to the northlands. I am aware you are Supposed to be able to death level a strider or spider at the shrine by Barradin's estate - however, 90% of the time they walk away and you cannot pull groups.

I won't pay for street walkers. The RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs do not need to charge those on their own side of the war for going out in their defense.

I don't waste money on starter armor. When my monk left Pre I henched (no heroes) to Marhans Grotto and began purchasing Labrythine. He was 10th level when I henched mission at Ice Caves. He was about 14th I think by the time the henchies and I had 60 DPd one kill at a time from trans to Marhans. I do not waste money on middle crap or things to get by with for now. Get the right thing the first time or dont get it. Do the right thing the first time or don't do it.

Can't open more than one coppy of GW on screen at one time. No, I am not wealthy enough to afford 2 computers.

Godly? In what way does suicide for personal advancement represent God like action? How does setting something up to play for you while you run away from the lack of entertainment and lack of enjoyability in any way represent God like action? How is being a Legendary Defender of something supposed to equate to "the suciders title?" That it has these associations in and of itself should be reason enough to call it not only broke but inappropriate, immoral, and contrary to the social welfare. Only a cutter/masochist can consider the point of view/philosophy/paradigm behind death leveling something worthy of adoration.

It proves that some people have patience and that they don't give up so easily.

And not paying for entrance to Northlands is just ridiculous.

LDoA is fine. There is no need to "fix" it. If you don't like the current setup that is engineered toward people who like to STAY in Pre-Searing for an excessive amount of time (if not forever), then go post now. Who the title is for is rather clear.

That the title fits in first point absosutwely not its name..that the title itself is totally bad concepted..getting into a clinch with an other title, because of its requirement not to die, while you need for the other to perma die...and thta both titles can't be received by old characters and forces players to delete their beloved characters, only to receive a chance to get the title ...

all this shows...that these 2 titles are absolutely NOT fine ...


the top of the ice berg are only all the selfish people..which whine for this title.. that nothign should change to fix these titles.. only because they death leveled for ages....


Want you hear my absolutely true opinion about all this whinery about LDoA ?
I'll tell you it ..

anet should have made name this title first much better....

They should have name this title "Disciple of Grenth" ...
who loves to die so much.. can only be a grenth fanatic person.... XD


Then NAet should have made this title never become a community title ...

this title should have become from the start on a 1 person only title ...
This title.. i really grant only to the ONE player ..which made this crazy thing FIRST.

And the last thing ...this title should not be showable in the Hall of Monuments and is should be only showable in the presearing...once that charascter would leave presiering... the title would DISAPPEAR !!!


that would have been the most best SOLUTION from the start on...what Anet should have done, but sryv to say that.. those fools didn't ...

Would have become this thing not a community title ..then we would have not all these whines and complaints about LDoA !!!!

thats imo the truth
For me personally. its only the 1st player, who absolutely deserves this special title and should be a special honour to that player for making this insane thing, what anet believed to be impossible ...

Okay, Fitz, I've been around long enough to know that your argument style consists of not budging an inch and flinging bricks of text at everyone until they simply give up and go away. Still, a couple of things I wanted to reply to before I quit the thread.

I'm not going to pay for cab rides or plane tickets anymore. Those jerks should be happy enough to be in my glorious company. Why should I give those moneysluts any sort of compensation? Don't they take PRIDE in helping me get where I want to go? After all, we're all part of the same society.

All right, I understand you're disabled. I respect that. My mom is too, so I have at least some understanding of how frustrating limited mobility can be and I'm not trying to be rude or condescending to you. I'm not gonna say "get a life" or "go outside." Assuming you're physically unable to leave the house, as you've alluded to before... aren't there other things you can do indoors while you death-level? Read a book, watch a movie, see what's on TV, tidy up a little, have a nap, learn a new skill? I don't know the extent of your disability, but if you're good at GW, you can do plenty of other things besides.

I realize I'm starting to get all Pollyanna on you, but there IS more to do, indoors and out, than Guild Wars. You can leave the game running and do something else for awhile, even if all you do is pick up another game.

LDoA is a timesink. A test of patience. Change that, and you've changed the "Legendary" part. I doubt it's going to change, and I don't think it should.

Learn how to separate reality from gaming. Death leveling has nothing to do with suicide or masochism. If it did, the game would never have been released, and society would have failed years ago.

Come play the game again when you understand that it is a game, and that the titles in it are for enjoyment. If you don't enjoy a title, DON'T WORK AT GETTING IT!

I only killed 4 normal char (3 char patrol in front of the shrine and the one at the right corner) on my boss runns. This allowed me to get to three bosses. Killing all the other char was a waste of time imo when they didn't give me any xp anymore.

I used a second account (2 copies running on the same PC side by side) so I could open the gate myself. After killing the bosses I'd switch to the other account, who would be at the entrance and could just run outside again.

I didn't buy the account for this, I bought it a long time ago when character slots were not for sale.

You may as well ask ANet to give you the LDoA title >.>

Any title that requires you to AFK for it is bull, plain and simple. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Lucky, Unlucky, and LDoA. Insane that you get something for *not* playing, but still wasting electricity and bandwidth. Why not give someone a title for 10,000 hours played, while we're at it? Or maybe 20k? Heck, even grind titles are better than AFK titles.

I say either make it so you can't AFK those titles, or do away with them. One or the other. LDoA was a great novelty, but that's all it was: a novelty. Now that the secret is out, there's no value.

I think you will find I have been resolute in my positions from each encounter with what is incorrect. Across 26 months of play I have not wavered. Where I take my stand I do not waver. Such resolution in the face of opposition exceeds patience. After acquiring the title my position will not change because of the convenience of no longer needing to work on it.

And yes refusing to pay is full of ridicule. It is ridiculous, and I will continue to ridicule the protection of paying for access to my job as a warrior by fellow combatants.

I agree, who the title was created for is rather clear. It was not created for perma-pre residents. It was inspired by those who showed spite for the limitations of an area they were never intended to remain in. It was created for all persons who play the game.

I like the consistency of your position and its creativity. I would agree that rewarding the first person or few people to do this with a title should have been something else, like Legendary Pwnster for the first and simply Pwnster for the rest. A title like Legendary Defender of Ascalon should carry more weight and value. I can see a death requirement, in a society that has the power to resurrect of their own accord, as such a title is not incongruous to the Congressional Medal of Honor, the Condecoración al Valor Heroico, the Victoria Cross, or even something like the An Bonn Mileata Calmachta (which does not require valor in war time to be awarded). Such awards are often given to those who have sacrificed their lives for the greater good of their people.


I think you will find a difference in context. Taking a plane ride or cab in a civilian issue is different than taking one in to LZ for military defense. The comparative is that King Adelbern should pay for the access. It is the obligation of governments to pay those who defend them, Not prevent their soldiery from enacting their defense.
I am resolute, which is much more aggressive than patience. I have a choice between budgeting for TV or the Internet – TV has less on it worth watching than the trivial pursuit of GW. I have read a great many books because most of my family are or were (retired, deceased) librarians or teachers. It is difficult at this point to acquire books that will expand my awareness of my interests (which is not to say I know everything I wish to know about – but that access where I live is much like attempting to breath air 6 feet in the dirt).

Looks like a duck, acts like a duck, quacks like a duck – must be A Duck.

Are you one who cannot separate entity from action?