PvP Skill Selling
tehshadowninjar
Okay, you know how you buy skills in PvP with ONLY Balthazar Faction, right? Well, I was thinking if whatever you buy with Balthazar faction, if you decided you didn't want it, you could sell it for 70%-100% of the Balthazar Faction you bought it for. You cannot sell any PvP related items that were already there before you used any faction to buy anything.
Tyla
/notsigned
what if you wanted to think up a new build?
what if you wanted to think up a new build?
tehshadowninjar
Uhhh, your point? How does that even comply or associate with "PvP skill selling"? >.>
Red
I think he means something more along the lines of Balthazar Faction refunds.
It is, I guess, another attempt to deal with the annoying system that is Balthazar faction.
"Ok, can you roll an Shockwave earth ele?"
"Crap, sorry, I don't have it and I only have 1000 faction"
"Oh....."
"Wait, I can sell Obsidian Flesh back to the Priest of Balthazar for 2000 faction.... there, I have enough!"
"Yay! Now unlock Shockwave!"
It is, I guess, another attempt to deal with the annoying system that is Balthazar faction.
"Ok, can you roll an Shockwave earth ele?"
"Crap, sorry, I don't have it and I only have 1000 faction"
"Oh....."
"Wait, I can sell Obsidian Flesh back to the Priest of Balthazar for 2000 faction.... there, I have enough!"
"Yay! Now unlock Shockwave!"
tehshadowninjar
And that's a bad thing?
I Phoenix I
/notsigned
Think wisely before you unlock a skill, and if you go by one profession at a time, it should be no problem for you.
If you really want fast faction, do that Zaishen Challenge or whatever thing.
Think wisely before you unlock a skill, and if you go by one profession at a time, it should be no problem for you.
If you really want fast faction, do that Zaishen Challenge or whatever thing.
Red
/not signed
I think, for what it is, it's neat. It deals with the faction problem some people experience, and 1000 or 3000 faction may not be much in the grand scheme of things... but it's certainly a lot when you don't have it, but your team wants you to take a certain skill and armor set that you don't have unlocked.
However, this just isn't a huge problem in and of itself, nor is it something I'd want the devs spending their time on. There's just too many other things they could be doing productively... and if we were GOING to talk about unlocking PvP skills and items, maybe we should discuss the fundamental issue with Balthazar Faction and the unlocking system, which is to say IT'S BLOODY ANNOYING.
I think, for what it is, it's neat. It deals with the faction problem some people experience, and 1000 or 3000 faction may not be much in the grand scheme of things... but it's certainly a lot when you don't have it, but your team wants you to take a certain skill and armor set that you don't have unlocked.
However, this just isn't a huge problem in and of itself, nor is it something I'd want the devs spending their time on. There's just too many other things they could be doing productively... and if we were GOING to talk about unlocking PvP skills and items, maybe we should discuss the fundamental issue with Balthazar Faction and the unlocking system, which is to say IT'S BLOODY ANNOYING.
Age
It doesn't take long to get more B. faction to unlock another skill just go out and fight for it.What about all the nerfed skills who wants to buy all those LoD anyone.
tehshadowninjar
Yeah, but you're always wanting to try out different professions... for example.
You have a sin, all skills are unlocked for him, or nearly all.
"Man, I'm so bored... I wana try something new."
*Tries dervish*
"Meh, this is okay"
2-5 days later...
"I suck with this..."
*Goes back to sin*
1-3 days later...
"I'm bored again..."
Then you continue to play different professions.
Mind you that you will have to buy new good skills often for the different professions so you'll be somewhat good. But if you choose to hate a profession, you might want to get back 70%-100% of your Balthazar Faction you spent on it (excluding starting skills).
You have a sin, all skills are unlocked for him, or nearly all.
"Man, I'm so bored... I wana try something new."
*Tries dervish*
"Meh, this is okay"
2-5 days later...
"I suck with this..."
*Goes back to sin*
1-3 days later...
"I'm bored again..."
Then you continue to play different professions.
Mind you that you will have to buy new good skills often for the different professions so you'll be somewhat good. But if you choose to hate a profession, you might want to get back 70%-100% of your Balthazar Faction you spent on it (excluding starting skills).
tehshadowninjar
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Originally Posted by Age
It doesn't take long to get more B. faction to unlock another skill just go out and fight for it.
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Darkhell153
your entire concept is stupid. If you buy a skill and the stop using the build you wanted that skill for, who says you won't want the same skill next week? ArenaNet doesn't allow you to sell skills to protect the stupid people of the world from themselves (if you've been to AB you know there are more stupid people in the world then you think). Selling Skills is a useless idea and is going to make enough people angry that THEY don't use it wiseley and the consequence ends up biting them in the rear. And seriously don't argue with the criticism of the others here (unless it's over forks) especially seeing as you only joined the forums this month Mr. Ascalong Squire. *I personally am amazed that I almost made this entire speech without saying the word "fork" (there I said it, haha)*
Tyla
sorry wasnt thinking properly the first time, but /notsigned when you can have all skills instead through farming RA, ty for explaining to my puny brain red 
Darkhell153
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
sorry wasnt thinking properly the first time, but /notsigned when you can have all skills instead through farming RA, ty for explaining to my puny brain red
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thedeadlyassassin
/notsigned.
Make your choices correctly, and this would NOT work. Let's say I unlock Shockwave in PVE, use it as my elite all the time, then I decide to sell it to a b. priest to unlock... let's say... searing flames, now I have a skill I don't have unlocked on my PvE character? Or does it go away?
It's easy enough to go skill capping for elites in PvE, and easy enough to get B. Faction
Make your choices correctly, and this would NOT work. Let's say I unlock Shockwave in PVE, use it as my elite all the time, then I decide to sell it to a b. priest to unlock... let's say... searing flames, now I have a skill I don't have unlocked on my PvE character? Or does it go away?
It's easy enough to go skill capping for elites in PvE, and easy enough to get B. Faction
tehshadowninjar
That's completely void... I said >>>PVP<<<
Yet, you mentioned PvE... smart. And I can see that Darkhell153 is some sort of a forum troll. Hey, listen here... GTFO. It's not how long someone has been on a forum, but how much knowledge that person can apply to his or her work of arts.
Yet, you mentioned PvE... smart. And I can see that Darkhell153 is some sort of a forum troll. Hey, listen here... GTFO. It's not how long someone has been on a forum, but how much knowledge that person can apply to his or her work of arts.
Diddy bow
/notsigned
IMO the only reason anyone would want this is for more faction for the zaishen chest, its bad habit to shorten your skill list for some consumables
IMO the only reason anyone would want this is for more faction for the zaishen chest, its bad habit to shorten your skill list for some consumables
tehshadowninjar
That's not why I thought of it... o.o I just thought that sometimes people may want other skills/accessories/heroes than what they have.
Diddy bow
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Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar
That's not why I thoguht of it... o.o I just thought that sometimes people may want other skills/accessories/heroes than what they have.
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tehshadowninjar
Why? If you're an idiot that sells nearly all of your skills for zaishen keys, it's your fault, no one elses.
HawkofStorms
/notsigned
Its an interesting idea... but geez, its so easy to get faction anyway... what's the point of refunding.
I'm only a casual PvPer and I still have over 400k faction. Very rarely do you need "refunding." Also, how do you relock something if you have it unlocked on a PvE character. Does the skill get like... half locked.
Also... well, with zaizhen chests now it would be very abusable to gain back faction in this way. I'd suddenly have a few hundred keys.
Its an interesting idea... but geez, its so easy to get faction anyway... what's the point of refunding.
I'm only a casual PvPer and I still have over 400k faction. Very rarely do you need "refunding." Also, how do you relock something if you have it unlocked on a PvE character. Does the skill get like... half locked.
Also... well, with zaizhen chests now it would be very abusable to gain back faction in this way. I'd suddenly have a few hundred keys.
Red
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Originally Posted by Darkhell153
you have honor, you could've simply edited your original post making everyone else who talked about it look like a complete idiot...Does the fact this idea occured to me make me a mean person?
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anonymous
What?!?!?! 1000 useless skills I can sell back and buy keys with?!?!?! Sign me up!!
/notsigned
If this actually happened, I would sell the ~1000 useless skills back and get a ton of zaishen keys. You don't need to be UAX and if you have any PvP knowledge you know what skills get used and which ones dont and never will. Just keep a stockpile of 9000 faction. That allows you to get a build that you didn't have a single skill to. Your team should get you enough faction for tomorrow if you need to play a different build if they aren't baed. If you need 9000 faction every time you PvP because you don't have any skills unlocked you either need to stick with one or two classes or hit pve and unlock the important skills that are used the most. When faction came out I usually only needed 2-3k if I was playing a new class. You need to learn the meta and unlock the skills used the most on your own without being asked by anyone to run it.
/notsigned
If this actually happened, I would sell the ~1000 useless skills back and get a ton of zaishen keys. You don't need to be UAX and if you have any PvP knowledge you know what skills get used and which ones dont and never will. Just keep a stockpile of 9000 faction. That allows you to get a build that you didn't have a single skill to. Your team should get you enough faction for tomorrow if you need to play a different build if they aren't baed. If you need 9000 faction every time you PvP because you don't have any skills unlocked you either need to stick with one or two classes or hit pve and unlock the important skills that are used the most. When faction came out I usually only needed 2-3k if I was playing a new class. You need to learn the meta and unlock the skills used the most on your own without being asked by anyone to run it.
Div
What if I unlocked it with PvE? :S
KycooGhost
/not signed
With Zaishen Key's now out on the market selling skills would cause the price of every rare item that can drop from the Zaishen chest to drop even further in value.
If this was to be added to the game I would sell off every non PvE unlocked skill i could and go and buy as many keys as I could, even if the sell price on the skill was 25-30% of the buy cost.
With Zaishen Key's now out on the market selling skills would cause the price of every rare item that can drop from the Zaishen chest to drop even further in value.
If this was to be added to the game I would sell off every non PvE unlocked skill i could and go and buy as many keys as I could, even if the sell price on the skill was 25-30% of the buy cost.
thedeadlyassassin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar
That's completely void... I said >>>PVP<<<
Yet, you mentioned PvE... smart. And I can see that Darkhell153 is some sort of a forum troll. Hey, listen here... GTFO. It's not how long someone has been on a forum, but how much knowledge that person can apply to his or her work of arts. |
That's completely void, you didn't >>>read<<< my post at all.
Sir Tificate
Hmm, a few modifications are needed, are they?
How about:
*You cannot sell skills that are known by any of your characters.
*When you sell a skill or item, you do not get "Balthazar Faction," but rather something else, "Refund Faction," we'll say. It can only be used to unlock skills and runes, so it cannot be used on Zaishen Keys or Tournament Tokens.
*You can only sell skills/items that were unlocked originally with Balthazar Faction or Refund Faction.
*Selling skills/items does not give 100% of the original faction, but rather some amount less, so you can't circumvent the Balthazar Faction System altogether. (I certainly wish we could have it at 100% so we could circumvent the system, but Anet made the unlock packs, so that is now impossible.
)
Would the idea work like this? Or did I miss something?
How about:
*You cannot sell skills that are known by any of your characters.
*When you sell a skill or item, you do not get "Balthazar Faction," but rather something else, "Refund Faction," we'll say. It can only be used to unlock skills and runes, so it cannot be used on Zaishen Keys or Tournament Tokens.
*You can only sell skills/items that were unlocked originally with Balthazar Faction or Refund Faction.
*Selling skills/items does not give 100% of the original faction, but rather some amount less, so you can't circumvent the Balthazar Faction System altogether. (I certainly wish we could have it at 100% so we could circumvent the system, but Anet made the unlock packs, so that is now impossible.
)Would the idea work like this? Or did I miss something?
Darkhell153
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Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar
Why? If you're an idiot that sells nearly all of your skills for zaishen keys, it's your fault, no one elses.
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1. Read my freakin post and sop insulting/arguing with the other members (that's my signature behavior)
2. If everyone says your idea is pathetic, then it is no arguments there
3. Stop defending your stupid idea because I'm sick of seeing your username pop up every five seconds
4. forkforkforkforkforkforkforkforkfork (ha, some of you didn't think I'd say it this time!)
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Originally Posted by Red
Asked by a person with Richard as their avatar image....
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Tyla
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Originally Posted by Darkhell153
finally someone recognizes him.
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anyway, as people said zaishen keys will get less pricey.
and its also like uninstalling your pve char's skills
tehshadowninjar
OMFG! *HEADDESK* You cannot sell skills you have learned in PvE on ANY of your PvE chars. Only in PvP with the skills you have BOUGHT with BALTHAZAR FACTION can you sell back as "Refund Faction". I also like the entire idea Sir Tificate. 
CassiusDrehyg
No.
No.
No.
This will only encourage people who aren't UAX to waste more faction on Zaishen Keys. The keys are 5k faction to stop casual players from being able to farm them as a quick source of income. The idea of trading skills is good for people who aren't UAX, but not selling them altogether.
/Notsigned.
No.
No.
This will only encourage people who aren't UAX to waste more faction on Zaishen Keys. The keys are 5k faction to stop casual players from being able to farm them as a quick source of income. The idea of trading skills is good for people who aren't UAX, but not selling them altogether.
/Notsigned.
tehshadowninjar
But if you listened to Sir Tificate, the sold skills could be made into "Refund Faction", where you could only buy stuff from the priest of balthazar. Meaning it's only for stuff that goes on armour, weapons, heroes, and skills. You CANNOT buy Tournament Tokens nor Zaishen Keys with "Refund Faction". >.> And WTF is "UAX"?
Sir Tificate
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar
But if you listened to Sir Tificate, the sold skills could be made into "Refund Faction", where you could only buy stuff from the priest of balthazar. Meaning it's only for stuff that goes on armour, weapons, heroes, and skills. You CANNOT buy Tournament Tokens nor Zaishen Keys with "Refund Faction". >.> And WTF is "UAX"?
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His real point, however, is that newbies won't have to worry about saving much faction for skills, so almost all normal faction they do get will go directly to Zaishen Keys, thereby allowing casual players to farm them for a quick source of income.
...
Call me crazy, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Enlighten me, please? How would it really be worse than all the other players that are already unlocked farming these keys for income? And why shouldn't casual players be able to farm for keys?
Dougal Kronik
How would the unlocked skill being refunded affect the characters account when using Heros?
/notsigned
/notsigned
Chicken Ftw
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Originally Posted by Sir Tificate
why shouldn't casual players be able to farm for keys?
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Sir Tificate
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| How would the unlocked skill being refunded affect the characters account when using Heros? |
Quote:
| It's hard to farm 5k balth? Since when? |
If I'm wrong about this, say so. If nothing else, the cost of keys could increase a bit if the skill selling was implemented. I'm not really a GW economist, so if the odd drops from the Zaishen chest are a serious problem, that can be dealt with in other ways. I think a way to help deal with the serious problems of the unlock system for PvP-ers is worth it, personally.
CassiusDrehyg
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Originally Posted by Sir Tificate
UAX = Unlocked All X (X is anything, skills, runes, etc., means a person is done unlocking.)
His real point, however, is that newbies won't have to worry about saving much faction for skills, so almost all normal faction they do get will go directly to Zaishen Keys, thereby allowing casual players to farm them for a quick source of income. ... Call me crazy, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Enlighten me, please? How would it really be worse than all the other players that are already unlocked farming these keys for income? And why shouldn't casual players be able to farm for keys? |
Average Joe, who has a 10k faction cap and less than 10% of the skills unlocked should not be spending any faction at all on keys. More dedicated players with higher faction caps naturally accumulate more faction, because of UAX. Quite often, these players don't play PvE at all, and therefore don't need Flasks of Firewater, and therefore these players sell the keys they accumulate. Higher end PvP will reward you with 5000 faction quite quickly, and obviously the faction cap will fill up. Whether this is a case of epeen enlargement is up to you, but when my faction cap is filled, I prefer to empty it for keys which I can sell at a 100% profit. I have nothing better to do with the faction, whereas newbies do.
I challenge you, Sir Tificate, to come up with a way of dealing with the the negative effects of an increase in the number of high end items coming from the chest, assuming of course that the system suggested in this thread is implemented.
greenreaper3
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Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar
Okay, you know how you buy skills in PvP with ONLY Balthazar Faction, right? Well, I was thinking if whatever you buy with Balthazar faction, if you decided you didn't want it, you could sell it for 70%-100% of the Balthazar Faction you bought it for. You cannot sell any PvP related items that were already there before you used any faction to buy anything.
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1. what about elite tomes? its not like...hmm i want SoJ but i dont wanna cap it..ill use an elite tome! but i dont have it unlocked....oh ill sell WoH, get SoJ, sell SoJ, then get WoH again
2......just no
scrump
/not signed
makes the unlock system redundent
makes the unlock system redundent
Sir Tificate
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Originally Posted by CassiusDrehyg
I challenge you, Sir Tificate, to come up with a way of dealing with the the negative effects of an increase in the number of high end items coming from the chest, assuming of course that the system suggested in this thread is implemented.
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Attempt #1, tell me if it works.
Two chests:
Zaishen Chest
Drops silly consumables, tomes, and some of the lower end gold items. (Maybe higher end gold items can drop, but with a seriously low frequency.) Unlockable with a Zaishen Key, 5k faction. These keys can only be bought with faction by a player who has unlocked 25% of his/her total available skills/items. Important: If you reach this mark at any point, you can NEVER lose it. If you buy another campaign and your total falls below 25%, you can still exchange faction for keys.
Champion's Chest
Drops tomes and any kind of gold item. This can be opened with a Champion's Key. The Champion's Key costs 10k faction. These keys can only be bought with faction by a player who has one of the following:
R9+ Champion Title
R12+ Hero Title
R12 Gladiator Title
90%+ of total available skills/items unlocked
Exact requirements can be fiddled with as needed.
Exactly which items are "lower end" can be debated by people who know the prices for them.
Also, what's wrong with casual players? They don't contribute to high end PvP, but they certainly don't detract from it in RA/AB/etc. Not everyone has the patience for HA and GvG, but they do like PvP, something Guild Wars seems fairly good at with its skill system.
tehshadowninjar
I think the "Refund Faction" is the best way to go. End of discussion.