Other than being able to put points into spawning power and using rt-specific runes/insignias, is there a big advantage to being a primary ritualist over a secondary one?
I suppose, in another way, my question is, is spawning power a good enough primary-only attribute? Is it as useful or as good as, say, soul reaping, leadership, etc?
Thank you.
Advantages of primary Rt?
Biostem
Dr Strangelove
Spawning power is the worst primary attribute without question. Most common builds only throw spare points in it. Still, if you want to use mostly rit skills, you may as well play as a rit.
Zena Starlight
Absolutely not D:, unless of course 2 seconds on a weapon spell matters that much to you.
Stormlord Alex
The advantage that Rits have is that their primary - Spawning Power - is both completely useless for the majority of builds; and doesn't really have many worthwhile skills too.
You can happily spec 12/12 in whatever attributes you feel (generally, Channel/Resto) and know you're not gimping yourself.
And having a split Channeler/Restorer is a strong enough character to warrant his place in a team.
You can happily spec 12/12 in whatever attributes you feel (generally, Channel/Resto) and know you're not gimping yourself.
And having a split Channeler/Restorer is a strong enough character to warrant his place in a team.
horseradish
Spawning is good for a spirit spammer and......umm..........yeah......
street peddler
advantage of primary rit is that spawning is for the most part, completely useless, which allows you to fully spec into 2 attributes.
Biostem
Well... that's a relief! lol!
Anyway, I have messed around w/ being a rt as my secondary, but after trying some channeling/restoration builds on Razah and Xandra, I was impressed.
I'm debating, though, just taking my ranger, making her a rt secondary, and basically going the now-trite splinter-barrager. I have this 1 character slot left and it's burning a hole in my pocket! Argh!!!
Thanks guys!
Anyway, I have messed around w/ being a rt as my secondary, but after trying some channeling/restoration builds on Razah and Xandra, I was impressed.
I'm debating, though, just taking my ranger, making her a rt secondary, and basically going the now-trite splinter-barrager. I have this 1 character slot left and it's burning a hole in my pocket! Argh!!!
Thanks guys!
Winterclaw
Because you can get 14 points in some rit skills?
Chicken Ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Other than being able to put points into spawning power and using rt-specific runes/insignias
Reading ftw.
Teh [prefession]-zorz
Because if you have a Rt primary my warmonglers lasts longer 
Nightow
I guess no one likes [skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill] since no one is mentioning it. =\
horseradish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biostem
I'm debating, though, just taking my ranger, making her a rt secondary, and basically going the now-trite splinter-barrager. I have this 1 character slot left and it's burning a hole in my pocket! Argh!!!
Well, I'm glad you're impressed, but...what?
Well, I'm glad you're impressed, but...what?
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightow
I guess no one likes [skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill] since no one is mentioning it. =\
It's a good skill, but the actual effect of spawning power is still crap.
horseradish
SS builds are alright, but the majority of skills in Spawning revolve around spirits so they're crap.
A weapon spell spammer could invest in Spawning, but it's not the best skill bar to play.
A weapon spell spammer could invest in Spawning, but it's not the best skill bar to play.
Winterclaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw
Reading ftw.
Bah. Anyways, there isn't much of a reason to go Rit as a primary. The only reason I have one is I like the looks of the females. 
Is Spirit's Strength actually any good? Just looks like an elite version of the conjure spells els have.
Is Spirit's Strength actually any good? Just looks like an elite version of the conjure spells els have.
Calen The Civl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Bah. Anyways, there isn't much of a reason to go Rit as a primary. The only reason I have one is I like the looks of the females.
Is Spirit's Strength actually any good? Just looks like an elite version of the conjure spells els have. Spirit's Strength is good in that its fun to play. The damage output is decent as well. It allows you to run as any of the melee classes for a change of pace, but it is recommended you use Ghost Forge Insignias if you are going to be in a melee position for any length of time. While its not recommended, a rit can be the group's warrior/tank if set up right. This is in pve of course.
The main reason to play a rit is the ability to play as just about any of the other classes. You are not locked into a certain set of play styles. If you want to run as you healer, you can. If you want to melee beside the warriors, you can (up to a point).
Is Spirit's Strength actually any good? Just looks like an elite version of the conjure spells els have. Spirit's Strength is good in that its fun to play. The damage output is decent as well. It allows you to run as any of the melee classes for a change of pace, but it is recommended you use Ghost Forge Insignias if you are going to be in a melee position for any length of time. While its not recommended, a rit can be the group's warrior/tank if set up right. This is in pve of course.
The main reason to play a rit is the ability to play as just about any of the other classes. You are not locked into a certain set of play styles. If you want to run as you healer, you can. If you want to melee beside the warriors, you can (up to a point).
BigDave
Advantage of a Rt primary? 16 Channeling i'd say. [skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill] and [skill]spirit rift[/skill] do a crap load more damage at lvl16 than lvl12. And as others have said you can spec fully into 2 functional attribute lines without really missing your primary attribute. Can you imagine a MM without high SR? A fire nuker without high ES? Just doesn't work yet a Rt can spec into both Channeling and Restoration to become one helluva good support character.
And as far as [skill]spirit's strength[/skill] is concerned, it's kinda funny to wand targets for 60+ damage
. And as a Rt/A it's nice to kill things in seconds, faster than most sins do, hehe.
And as far as [skill]spirit's strength[/skill] is concerned, it's kinda funny to wand targets for 60+ damage
. And as a Rt/A it's nice to kill things in seconds, faster than most sins do, hehe.
Pyro maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave
Advantage of a Rt primary? 16 Channeling i'd say. [skill]splinter weapon[/skill][skill]ancestors' rage[/skill] and [skill]spirit rift[/skill] do a crap load more damage at lvl16 than lvl12. And as others have said you can spec fully into 2 functional attribute lines without really missing your primary attribute. Can you imagine a MM without high SR? A fire nuker without high ES? Just doesn't work yet a Rt can spec into both Channeling and Restoration to become one helluva good support character.
- run 14 channeling ...
- you say SP sucks, however that doesn't make a rit good ...
Using Me/Rt with a few points in fast casting does the jame job as a pure ritualist, however with faster casting. N/Rt with same skills is just free energy management, etcetera.
Only benefit is: it stays a ritualist, If you're yousing N/Rt rit for the e-management, you can't use expel hexes with it. If you're using Me/Rt for the fast casting, you can't take spirit bond with it as pre-prot.
Ritualist primary gives you the versatility you need on a char.
I like playing my ritualist, however when I need a ritualist hero, I prefer to take gwen or olias.
- you say SP sucks, however that doesn't make a rit good ...
Using Me/Rt with a few points in fast casting does the jame job as a pure ritualist, however with faster casting. N/Rt with same skills is just free energy management, etcetera.
Only benefit is: it stays a ritualist, If you're yousing N/Rt rit for the e-management, you can't use expel hexes with it. If you're using Me/Rt for the fast casting, you can't take spirit bond with it as pre-prot.
Ritualist primary gives you the versatility you need on a char.
I like playing my ritualist, however when I need a ritualist hero, I prefer to take gwen or olias.
Terraban
12 Channeling
12 Protection
Helps the monks, adds damage, e-management.
12 Protection
Helps the monks, adds damage, e-management.
spirit of defeat
If Spirit Spammer wasn't so broken these days this discussion woudn't be needed...
Altough I still like it.....
Altough I still like it.....
yum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightow
I guess no one likes [skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill] since no one is mentioning it. =\
That skills is only good in RA and such. It sux in every other place.
Trylo
[skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill]Volley[skill]Warmonger's Weapon[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill]Triple Shot[skill]Nightmare Weapon[/skill]
gogo pve plowing machine
And by "spirit spamming is broken" you mean dead? yes?
gogo pve plowing machine
And by "spirit spamming is broken" you mean dead? yes?
horseradish
Spirit Spamming is alive and well in AB....and PvE...and RA......damn.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
Spirit Spamming is alive and well in AB....and PvE...and RA......damn.
It's an effective way to farm idiots in RA, but I can't think of any reason to bring it in AB. AB is about moving around and capping as fast as possible, which spirit spammers are amazingly bad at.
In PvE, it's unbelievably slow, even with summon spirits, assassin's promise, or whatever else you might want to bring. I'm sure somebody's going to come scream at me that it works well and is fast, but they're lying and wrong. Disregard them.
In PvE, it's unbelievably slow, even with summon spirits, assassin's promise, or whatever else you might want to bring. I'm sure somebody's going to come scream at me that it works well and is fast, but they're lying and wrong. Disregard them.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
In PvE, it's unbelievably slow, even with summon spirits, assassin's promise, or whatever else you might want to bring. I'm sure somebody's going to come scream at me that it works well and is fast, but they're lying and wrong. Disregard them.
It works well and it's fast!
I mean, yeeah... I spend an hour setting them up first, but when I pull the mob, boom! Almost as good as Splinter Weapon!
I mean, yeeah... I spend an hour setting them up first, but when I pull the mob, boom! Almost as good as Splinter Weapon!
horseradish
I often see 4 or 5 spirits floatin' around a shrine. If it's on my side (Luxon), I set up my traps on and around them (cuz I only use my ranger for AB nowadays, and trapping is so much fun and pretty) It hinders enemy advances amazingly. Couple of snare traps and turrets take down melee fast. Eles are another story >__>
spirit of defeat
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
Spirit Spamming is alive and well in AB....and PvE...and RA......damn.
I used to be better, before the Spirit nerf.....
Especially Protect spirits used to be better.
I wish they fixed the way it somehow so it is better.
Especially Protect spirits used to be better.
I wish they fixed the way it somehow so it is better.
frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
I used to be better, before the Spirit nerf.....
Especially Protect spirits used to be better.
I wish they fixed the way it somehow so it is better. The only way they (anet) could fix spirit spamming would be to make it more focused (active, directed instead of fire and forget), and thus it would need to lose it's 'affect everyone in half-radar range' clause.
Or to be more precise, looking at what they've done to say Shelter, you could consider it like diluting the effectiveness of something to account for it affecting so many allies. Like say imagine Prot Spirit being diluted across an entire team but still retaining it's 'total' power level (it would obviously be pretty shit). To get some power back, you would need to reduce it's focus to a smaller number of allies so the skill can become stronger... Theoretically.
Essentially you could say the strength of such a skill (Shelter) is indirectly proportional to how many allies it affects in terms of balance.
So... The question is; Do you like spirit spamming enough to actually put some work in (using a more dynamic system, whatever that is) and play it more actively? Or do you simply like playing the original over-powered nonsense we had before?
If it is the later, then forget it. That should never be viable. PvE or PvP...
Especially Protect spirits used to be better.
I wish they fixed the way it somehow so it is better. The only way they (anet) could fix spirit spamming would be to make it more focused (active, directed instead of fire and forget), and thus it would need to lose it's 'affect everyone in half-radar range' clause.
Or to be more precise, looking at what they've done to say Shelter, you could consider it like diluting the effectiveness of something to account for it affecting so many allies. Like say imagine Prot Spirit being diluted across an entire team but still retaining it's 'total' power level (it would obviously be pretty shit). To get some power back, you would need to reduce it's focus to a smaller number of allies so the skill can become stronger... Theoretically.
Essentially you could say the strength of such a skill (Shelter) is indirectly proportional to how many allies it affects in terms of balance.
So... The question is; Do you like spirit spamming enough to actually put some work in (using a more dynamic system, whatever that is) and play it more actively? Or do you simply like playing the original over-powered nonsense we had before?
If it is the later, then forget it. That should never be viable. PvE or PvP...
spirit of defeat
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
The only way they (anet) could fix spirit spamming would be to make it more focused (active, directed instead of fire and forget), and thus it would need to lose it's 'affect everyone in half-radar range' clause.
Or to be more precise, looking at what they've done to say Shelter, you could consider it like diluting the effectiveness of something to account for it affecting so many allies. Like say imagine Prot Spirit being diluted across an entire team but still retaining it's 'total' power level (it would obviously be pretty shit). To get some power back, you would need to reduce it's focus to a smaller number of allies so the skill can become stronger... Theoretically.
Essentially you could say the strength of such a skill (Shelter) is indirectly proportional to how many allies it affects in terms of balance.
So... The question is; Do you like spirit spamming enough to actually put some work in (using a more dynamic system, whatever that is) and play it more actively? Or do you simply like playing the original over-powered nonsense we had before?
If it is the later, then forget it. That should never be viable. PvE or PvP... When I play protect Spirts then I'm already active because I'm non-stop spamming my spirits(Rit Lord) in an order I need them. I'm not as active as a monk, but I need to pay attention what I do.
But when using attack spirits, you simply are passive, just waiting for your spirits to do the work and continuing to respam when dead.
Therefore I'm far more passive.
Or to be more precise, looking at what they've done to say Shelter, you could consider it like diluting the effectiveness of something to account for it affecting so many allies. Like say imagine Prot Spirit being diluted across an entire team but still retaining it's 'total' power level (it would obviously be pretty shit). To get some power back, you would need to reduce it's focus to a smaller number of allies so the skill can become stronger... Theoretically.
Essentially you could say the strength of such a skill (Shelter) is indirectly proportional to how many allies it affects in terms of balance.
So... The question is; Do you like spirit spamming enough to actually put some work in (using a more dynamic system, whatever that is) and play it more actively? Or do you simply like playing the original over-powered nonsense we had before?
If it is the later, then forget it. That should never be viable. PvE or PvP... When I play protect Spirts then I'm already active because I'm non-stop spamming my spirits(Rit Lord) in an order I need them. I'm not as active as a monk, but I need to pay attention what I do.
But when using attack spirits, you simply are passive, just waiting for your spirits to do the work and continuing to respam when dead.
Therefore I'm far more passive.
frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
When I play protect Spirts then I'm already active because I'm non-stop spamming my spirits(Rit Lord) in an order I need them. I'm not as active as a monk, but I need to pay attention what I do.
But when using attack spirits, you simply are passive, just waiting for your spirits to do the work and continuing to respam when dead.
Therefore I'm far more passive. You misunderstand me...
In a general sense, sure you can call defense spirits active because you actually have to 'do something' to use them. I could also say just pressing keys on my keyboard is also 'active'. That isn't the right context at all.
Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Weapon of Remedy... These are active defense skills. They don't accomplish much if they are not used at the right time within a window of opportunity that is pretty small. Aegis, Defensive Anthem, Shelter etc.... These are passive defense skills.
They are too slow to preempt or react to that window but have a duration that allows them to deal with any potential windows that crop up within that time, while the player does something else or just picks their nose. They are also called 'fire and forget' skills. These skills are generally bad for skill-based games. They can promote lazy play and generally make for a dull experience for all involved.
That's not to say they are completely undesirable. Used in the right, they can offer variety and differing flavour to primarily active game play types(eg. a gun platform in an FPS). The main rule is they can not be 'better' than the active type if things are to be balanced.
Defensive spirits are more or less at the top of the list of skills which broke the rules. They were horrible. They used to allow a ritualist to pre-prot the entire team for very little effort, from half a mile away without a care in the world.
Defense Spirits can not be considered 'active' at all. They were the prime opposite. 5 second creations times were hopeless at catching windows and 60 second durations just reinforced this point more so (regardless of how much hp a spirit had).
They were Ultra-passive, Ultra lazy, and Ultra dull. They can't come back as anything like that...
But when using attack spirits, you simply are passive, just waiting for your spirits to do the work and continuing to respam when dead.
Therefore I'm far more passive. You misunderstand me...
In a general sense, sure you can call defense spirits active because you actually have to 'do something' to use them. I could also say just pressing keys on my keyboard is also 'active'. That isn't the right context at all.
Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Weapon of Remedy... These are active defense skills. They don't accomplish much if they are not used at the right time within a window of opportunity that is pretty small. Aegis, Defensive Anthem, Shelter etc.... These are passive defense skills.
They are too slow to preempt or react to that window but have a duration that allows them to deal with any potential windows that crop up within that time, while the player does something else or just picks their nose. They are also called 'fire and forget' skills. These skills are generally bad for skill-based games. They can promote lazy play and generally make for a dull experience for all involved.
That's not to say they are completely undesirable. Used in the right, they can offer variety and differing flavour to primarily active game play types(eg. a gun platform in an FPS). The main rule is they can not be 'better' than the active type if things are to be balanced.
Defensive spirits are more or less at the top of the list of skills which broke the rules. They were horrible. They used to allow a ritualist to pre-prot the entire team for very little effort, from half a mile away without a care in the world.
Defense Spirits can not be considered 'active' at all. They were the prime opposite. 5 second creations times were hopeless at catching windows and 60 second durations just reinforced this point more so (regardless of how much hp a spirit had).
They were Ultra-passive, Ultra lazy, and Ultra dull. They can't come back as anything like that...
horseradish
*cough cough* off topic *cough wheeze*
frojack
Well yes and no...
How effective ritualist spirits are is directly related to how high their hp is (which is what spawning does... wow). So if all of a sudden rit spirits didn't suck on so many levels, there would be more reason to use Rit primary.
Besides, it's not exactly an extensive topic...
How effective ritualist spirits are is directly related to how high their hp is (which is what spawning does... wow). So if all of a sudden rit spirits didn't suck on so many levels, there would be more reason to use Rit primary.
Besides, it's not exactly an extensive topic...
horseradish
Being able to spec 12+ into the better attribute points is reason enough to make a primary Rit....besides the beautiful armor & weapons, flexibility, and auto-attack pilates.
Solus Spartan
Primary rit = [skill]Boon of Creation[/skill]. So worth it
spirit of defeat
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
You misunderstand me...
In a general sense, sure you can call defense spirits active because you actually have to 'do something' to use them. I could also say just pressing keys on my keyboard is also 'active'. That isn't the right context at all.
Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Weapon of Remedy... These are active defense skills. They don't accomplish much if they are not used at the right time within a window of opportunity that is pretty small. Aegis, Defensive Anthem, Shelter etc.... These are passive defense skills.
They are too slow to preempt or react to that window but have a duration that allows them to deal with any potential windows that crop up within that time, while the player does something else or just picks their nose. They are also called 'fire and forget' skills. These skills are generally bad for skill-based games. They can promote lazy play and generally make for a dull experience for all involved.
That's not to say they are completely undesirable. Used in the right, they can offer variety and differing flavour to primarily active game play types(eg. a gun platform in an FPS). The main rule is they can not be 'better' than the active type if things are to be balanced.
Defensive spirits are more or less at the top of the list of skills which broke the rules. They were horrible. They used to allow a ritualist to pre-prot the entire team for very little effort, from half a mile away without a care in the world.
Defense Spirits can not be considered 'active' at all. They were the prime opposite. 5 second creations times were hopeless at catching windows and 60 second durations just reinforced this point more so (regardless of how much hp a spirit had).
They were Ultra-passive, Ultra lazy, and Ultra dull. They can't come back as anything like that... I agree that a ProtSpirt RT can be a mile away, but I disagree the "Lazy protector part" when Protecting I'm always bussy, spirits die to fast to sit back. I'm always recasting them and keeping an eye on [skill=text]Signet Of Creation[/skill] to keep them as long alive as possible casting it at the right time for max result.
When I play Attack spirits then I only "fire and forget" all I need to worry about is that I don't get killed. There is no tactic just keep [skill=text]Boon Of Creation[/skill]up and summon like hell, even the chance of killing can be evaded cheaply, summon then lure. Starting a battle with a big advantage.
That's why I consider Protect spirits far more active then attack spirits.
I DO agree that spirit spammer never gets really active anyhow, no matter what.
In a general sense, sure you can call defense spirits active because you actually have to 'do something' to use them. I could also say just pressing keys on my keyboard is also 'active'. That isn't the right context at all.
Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Weapon of Remedy... These are active defense skills. They don't accomplish much if they are not used at the right time within a window of opportunity that is pretty small. Aegis, Defensive Anthem, Shelter etc.... These are passive defense skills.
They are too slow to preempt or react to that window but have a duration that allows them to deal with any potential windows that crop up within that time, while the player does something else or just picks their nose. They are also called 'fire and forget' skills. These skills are generally bad for skill-based games. They can promote lazy play and generally make for a dull experience for all involved.
That's not to say they are completely undesirable. Used in the right, they can offer variety and differing flavour to primarily active game play types(eg. a gun platform in an FPS). The main rule is they can not be 'better' than the active type if things are to be balanced.
Defensive spirits are more or less at the top of the list of skills which broke the rules. They were horrible. They used to allow a ritualist to pre-prot the entire team for very little effort, from half a mile away without a care in the world.
Defense Spirits can not be considered 'active' at all. They were the prime opposite. 5 second creations times were hopeless at catching windows and 60 second durations just reinforced this point more so (regardless of how much hp a spirit had).
They were Ultra-passive, Ultra lazy, and Ultra dull. They can't come back as anything like that... I agree that a ProtSpirt RT can be a mile away, but I disagree the "Lazy protector part" when Protecting I'm always bussy, spirits die to fast to sit back. I'm always recasting them and keeping an eye on [skill=text]Signet Of Creation[/skill] to keep them as long alive as possible casting it at the right time for max result.
When I play Attack spirits then I only "fire and forget" all I need to worry about is that I don't get killed. There is no tactic just keep [skill=text]Boon Of Creation[/skill]up and summon like hell, even the chance of killing can be evaded cheaply, summon then lure. Starting a battle with a big advantage.
That's why I consider Protect spirits far more active then attack spirits.
I DO agree that spirit spammer never gets really active anyhow, no matter what.
Dr Strangelove
Also this:
Cosmic Error
The biggest advantage of primary ritualists is that they have runes, other than that, their armor is good enough a reason to go primary rit.
Bandaged eyes = Best character design ever.
Bandaged eyes = Best character design ever.
Chael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Bargamer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Error
Bandaged eyes = Best character design ever.
My eyes are always uncovered, so I can see explosions better. Recently, I got glasses, so now they're all in focus, too!
@Strangeglove: The way they show off their legs when they /dance is nice, too.
On topic: Runes, pretty much. Our Primary is one of those "take it or leave it" dealies. So while it does arguably make us more flexible, it comes at the cost of pure strength. Or so they say.
@Strangeglove: The way they show off their legs when they /dance is nice, too.
On topic: Runes, pretty much. Our Primary is one of those "take it or leave it" dealies. So while it does arguably make us more flexible, it comes at the cost of pure strength. Or so they say.
Biostem
So I've been playing my rit for a good many days so far, got her to 20, and I am actually quite impressed. Some of those channeling skills do amazing damage and recharge rather quickly. I've also been having a lot of fun w/ painful bond, bloodsong, and vampirism. I'm also quite partial to agony + spirit boon strike. I am working through the factions campaign so i can get spirit twisting and drop 2 agonies in quick succession...