To all the assassin experts out there

JAK3US

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

I want to get started with the assassin, but don't know whether to start as a PVE or PVP character if I want to mainly do PVP. Does PVE help you better understand the profession, or does it involve completely different tactics?

So basically, to all expert assassins out there: Would you recommend starting fresh with an assassin in PVE or PVP?

lacasner

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

PvP, because mobiues + death blossom spam will get you nowhere.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

I didn't get much out of PvE while playing my sin.

Alex the Great

Alex the Great

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

America.....got a problem with that?

[Lite]

W/

pvp definatly

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

I think, you could atleast beat factions.
Then make your pvp sin and delete your pve one if you feel like it.

Atleast you'll see things that just don't work well with an assassin.
Like going KIlRoooy into anything you want.

But you'd be fine going into pvp as well.


So Flip a coin.


Although im a idiot, so ummm take Yan's view???

Bowstring Badass

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

Start in PvE and learn how to not be a narutard. Then move on to PvP.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Don't play PvE. A little part of me dies every time I activate CritAgility, but it's sooooo good...

Hyprodimus Prime

Hyprodimus Prime

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Vancouver BC

Sorrow Masters

E/

I'm certainly not an expert at the sin and I've only played it in PvP, but this is my suggestion.

Is this your first time at guild wars? Then you should start in PvE to learn different skills, tactics, jobs, terminology and professions. If you have already played a few characters and are looking into starting a Sin, you could just skip to PvP, it may be a new profession, but as long as you know the basics, you can learn quickly.

By basics I mean stuff like interrupting, cross team builds, how to snare, how to synergize chains, kiting, weapon swaps etc. I played warrior before, so I know about things melee players in general need to think about like, snares, target switching if they are buffed, when to use different weapon sets, frontline armor, stances and melee interrupting. If you are a caster (say a mesmer) you dont worry about those things and so switching to assassin may be a little difficult. However, a ranger interrupter can switch to a mesmer interruptor, A Warrior can switch to a Dervish and a monk can switch to heal Rit with little problems. Each profession does certain, "jobs" that contribute to the team. Each profession has slightly different ways of accomplishing these jobs and your team tactics in PvP will determine who wins. Thats why top guilds can pretty much play any build and win, they know their basics. My point being If you have played a melee character before and you think you know game basics, skip to PvP.

elysiumIX

elysiumIX

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

Asia

E/

I'm not an expert, but if you're going for mainly PvP, then just create a PvP char. PvE and PvP are different, anyway. The basics you'd learn in PvE might be totally different from the ones you'd learn in PvP.

Zena Starlight

Zena Starlight

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

CBE

Mo/

Doh Start it out in PvE and get some pretty armor while your at it :P

morimoto

morimoto

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Ft. Worth TX

House of Soot?!

Mo/W

i have been playing GW since it came out.

when i wanted to make a sin, i made a PvE sin first and played about 1/2 of factions. at that point i made my PvP sin.

John Panda

John Panda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

in my house

The Arctic Maruarders [TAM]

A/

Thier are other classes that can do what an assassin can do better..

Like a warrior..

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Panda
Thier are other classes that can do what an assassin can do better..

Like a warrior.. not the thread for this.

Nestaron

Nestaron

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Glasgow, Scotland

Banished Dragons

A/

I tried to make a PvE sin several times... Could never get in to it.Randomly one day i decieded to make a PvP 'Sin out of boredom.. and since then i've been hoooked in Sins in both PvE and PvP.

Using a Sin in PvP helped me learn what an Assassin is all about. I was then able to transfer what i learned in PvP to playing as Sin in PvE and as a result Sins became alot more attractive to me.

blakk

blakk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

The Marble Clan [KING]

R/Mo

Good training will involve a step based progression from Point A to point B.
Its best to 'walk with the wise so that you may become wise, for if you walk with the foolish you may become foolish"Iin other words get good with the proven builds.
Here are the pro's and cons of each game play style.
PVE: thanks to the bible of guild wiki, you can learn not only how to beat each pVe map, but you cant learn the skills and powers of every enemy you will face, allowing you to create specified builds for success.
PvE is a good solid place to get familiar with the sins abilities, and timing.
Because its static and Unchanging. that is what Pve is for, learning to get your ablility to master the skills down pat which you will need when you move on to:
PvP
Anything and everything can happen in pvp. And will happen. You never know what build your going to face.


Either way, start off with the correct mindset:
your gonna get owned... alot.. If you do pvp a Whole whole lot, because people will target Sin's fast.

Phase 1
No matter what path you choose start off with builds that are proven to work.
Here is a good resource:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/?title=Main_Page
get a build make it work in the setting for which it was designed.
Work it until you not only can use it well, but you understand WHY it works well.
You should start to notice certain little things about the build that doesn't jibe for you.In other words you may feel that a skill is too slow to recharge, or the energy management is bad, or certain types of foes seem tom kill you too fast for your taste ect...
What's happening is that your starting to discover your style as a sin.
Phase2

At this point you should be able to start to experiment with the SINS skills.
Make up some KERAZY build no matter what they are, for the sake of experimentation. Why? because you already have a solid base of builds to fall back on.for PvP you should also know the builds that are is fashion. it will give you a general idea of what you may be facing In pvp.
I hope my lil 2 cents helped.

chesterocks7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Ancient Dragoons [AGED]

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Panda
Thier are other classes that can do what an assassin can do better..

Like a warrior.. completely false. assassins jump to the back line, take out the spellcasters, and jump back out. all while the warrior is mindlessly swinging away at the other team's warriors waiting for the rest of the team to do the real work. no profession can do another profession's role as well as someone of that profession who knows what they're doing.

i would def. start with pve. you get a lot more practice to figure out what specific skills work best in different situations and get so much more practice with pick-up groups provided you can get into one. eventually you'll get to pvp with much more experience than if you jump right into it. besides, you'll be able to go back and do some pve when you get bored with pvp. farming greens and hm areas with friends is a blast no matter what profession you are playing.

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterocks7
completely false. assassins jump to the back line, take out the spellcasters, and jump back out. all while the warrior is mindlessly swinging away at the other team's warriors waiting for the rest of the team to do the real work. no profession can do another profession's role as well as someone of that profession who knows what they're doing. this is not where we discuss this

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Panda
Thier are other classes that can do what an assassin can do better..

Like a warrior.. Sounds very troll to me...
Please don't make this end up like that derv thread that turned into a Warrior vs Derv debate...

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

If you want to get into any PvP outside of RA/AB stuff (namely, TA, HA, GvG) playing a sin will get you nowhere. That is all. People want experienced warriors, mesmers, eles, rangers, and monks, but no one really cares about experienced sins.

uberwan kapwni

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2007

SFL

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoriki
I think, you could atleast beat factions.
Then make your pvp sin and delete your pve one if you feel like it.

Atleast you'll see things that just don't work well with an assassin.
Like going KIlRoooy into anything you want. This is a very good idea imo, I mean I think going strait into pvp knowing nothing can be hard. Beating factions is quick enough, yet gives you a good feel for the game. I know it is nothing like pvp, but still you will know how to just play a character on guild wars. Good luck mate!

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
If you want to get into any PvP outside of RA/AB stuff (namely, TA, HA, GvG) playing a sin will get you nowhere. That is all. People want experienced warriors, mesmers, eles, rangers, and monks, but no one really cares about experienced sins. This comment is just nuts. I get plenty of 'job offers' in TA because dual Sin teams are very potent. Why create the idea that only 5 classes are viable anyway!?

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Panda
Thier are other classes that can do what an assassin can do better..

Like a warrior.. i love you john, i really do

Gnat Attack

Gnat Attack

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Ohio

FINE

A/

follow the following steps:

1. roll a pvp sin
2. go to pvx wiki
3. copy a shadow prison build(even if you don't understand it...it's ok...most assassins dont even understand their skills)
4. Enter AB arena
5. press 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8...if you kill your foe...go to step 7...if you failed because you failed to press the number sequence or just failed anyways....see step 6
6. run away/around from combat like a fat kid escaping from richard simons for about 25 seconds or until shadow prison recharges and attempt to not fail at the number sequence again. When you finally kill something...go to step 7
7. dance on their corpse. go into local chat and tell them how much better you are than them in guild wars because you can push a number sequence

-oh ya, you may want a sword and shield set to make it look like your pro. just switch to your vamp/ebon daggers for the spike. i don't think i missed anything did i?
CONGRATS you win guild wars

Master of Sins

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2007

San Fransisco

Assassins of the Crescent Moon

A/

it depends what you like- the point is PvP sin and PvE sin are entirely different. While a PvE sin utilizes quick spammable damage, escape and survival, it is entirely ineffective against any smart PvP player. For example, Mobius strike and Death Blossom own in PvE, but in PvP almost every build is gonna have at least 1 blind or stance or block enchant. On the other hand, a PvP sin focuses on quick high damage chains that are difficult to counter because of speed, unblockables like the typical Shattering sin, or knockdown; with much less survivability, perhaps one escape and one heal. In addition many classes such as Mesmers and Necros will take a sin as a secondary and create equally good spikes. Overall PvE is less frusterating and more empowering, but basically just quick spamming, where as PvP is incredibly complex and infuriating, with the reward of ultimate fulfillment when you get an unbeatable team in RA.. wow I'm rambling- whatever floats ur boat.

Mist Walker Skarloc

Mist Walker Skarloc

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Gods Of The Hot [GotH]

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Panda
Thier are other classes that can do what an assassin can do better..

Like a warrior.. Either give me some of what you're smoking or give me your warrior builds.

Mist Walker Skarloc

Mist Walker Skarloc

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Gods Of The Hot [GotH]

P/W

If you just wanna PvP, I'd just make a PvP assassin. PvEing as an assassin isn't that good, you'll find getting teams for elite missions difficult.

DDL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

To be fair, Snow bunny: saying anyone who doesn't think Warriors >> assassins in all PvP respects need to "learn to not be bad at GW" pretty much just says that you need to "learn to not be bad at playing an assassin in PvP".

Both have their uses, but their uses do NOT completely overlap.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDL
To be fair, Snow bunny: saying anyone who doesn't think Warriors >> assassins in all PvP respects need to "learn to not be bad at GW" pretty much just says that you need to "learn to not be bad at playing an assassin in PvP".

Both have their uses, but their uses do NOT completely overlap. um....

Warriors can provide infinitely better frontline pressure, and at this point, can spike almost as well.

So...

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

but warriors are fat so who gives a flying Bruce Lee round house soaring Eagle snatches ugly chick kick?

Oh they can spike as well?
Good for them, they don't do it the same though.

Im not going to disagree of the usefulness of warriors.
I could of given a better argument before when sin's didn't recieve so much nerfage.

Damn you nightfall >.>

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Warriors can provide infinitely better frontline pressure, and at this point, can spike almost as well. Yeah...that icky recharge on sin spikes is ugly...
And their base damage is kinda...ugh...
But they're fun to take out idiots with :P

DDL

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
um....

Warriors can provide infinitely better frontline pressure, and at this point, can spike almost as well.

So... No, no: that's fair enough. That's basically spot on. Sin for frontline pressure (or, well, sin for pressure at all) is inferior to a warrior.

And for spiking, warriors are good, but not as good. The sin still wins in brute PvP spike damage. And played well, a pair of sins can achieve things a pair of warriors can't, it's just all about using the right class at the right time.

ensoriki

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

thats not entirely true.

Some sin spikes are in about the same league as warrior spikes.

Its stuff like um SP trampling ox and crap that out spikes the warrior.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

My comment was directed @ the "Warriors can't spike" comment.

Yes, we all know, Sins can pull off 500+ HP spikes with ease. Or they could, back in the day...

Pvp4lyfe

Pvp4lyfe

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

Mafia Of Annhilation

D/Mo

imo id say pve until u get to kurzick/luxon then start RA or AB

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pvp4lyfe
imo id say pve until u get to kurzick/luxon then start RA or AB Why?

So he can be a crap sin running around in bad arenas?

To the OP: Watch obs mode a little, understand how sins are used in pvp. They are easily the most pvp oriented class in the game, save for perhaps mesmers.

fireflyry

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

I think PvE is a good introduction for anyone new to a class.

You can get a general feel for the individual class mechanics regardless of the difference in game-play in PvE.

Then again the majority of PvP created Sins I've played with/against have sucked so I may be bias.

Just have fun.

itsvictor

itsvictor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

If you're going to pvp a lot like I do, make a pvp sin, unless you want to spend resources into said pve sin to make it ready...

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsvictor
If you're going to pvp a lot like I do, make a pvp sin, unless you want to spend resources into said pve sin to make it ready... it makes me QQ sometimes since I do take my PVE sin in PVP decked for it. to hear people start bitching about how i am some noob who doesn't know how to pvp. It pissess me off, but what pissess me off is that way too many people take PVE chars into PVP and use really crappy PVE builds there and give us PvPers who have PVE chars decked out for it a bad name.

thats my 2 cents and off topic whining


and yes i will take some cheese with that whine.

and also if I see one more mobius DB spam in RA complain that blind is cheep i will kick him personally.

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

PvP characters are superior to PvE characters in every way. why would you run a PvE char in PvP? I dont understand.