The Charr Invasion of Orr
Mark Nevermiss
If Orr is that archipelago located in the area west of the Crystal Desert, then how on earth did the Charr manage to get there?
1- They could not have gone through Kryta because they were beaten there by Saul and the Mursaat.
2- Going through the Shiverpeaks all the way the Snake Dance and Lornars Pass is also highly unlikely.
3- Did they circumnavigate the Shiverpeaks and go through Ascalon south then through the northern part of the Crystal Desert? I assume that is also unlikely because: a- if that happened before the Searing then they were held back by the Great North Wall and b- if it happened after the Searing then they still faced stiff resistance south of the wall and their logistics lines would not have held.
So how did they get there then?
I am not sure if this was discussed before. I did a basic search and did not find anything.
Channel_V93
Rift Portal?
KalleDamos
They did not go through the southern shiverpeaks, but around it. They ran down the Shiverpoeaks boardering Ascalon, and just went down and around after the searing.
Mark Nevermiss
Well its weird how even post searing we hardly ever encounter any charr south of the Wall.
Also, EoTN made known the motives behind the Charr invasion of Ascalon, being the desire to reclaim lands that were historically charr owned. So what would their reasons be for going so far south west?
Also the charr that invaded Ascalon were wimps that would have been easily owned in the areas they are supposed to have gone through.
I guess its just one more piece in the nonsense jigsaw puzzle that is Prophecies.
Also, EoTN made known the motives behind the Charr invasion of Ascalon, being the desire to reclaim lands that were historically charr owned. So what would their reasons be for going so far south west?
Also the charr that invaded Ascalon were wimps that would have been easily owned in the areas they are supposed to have gone through.
I guess its just one more piece in the nonsense jigsaw puzzle that is Prophecies.
Avai
Below is my account of the Charr's movement based on my Rouge Ascalon Warband tracking these beasts over the past years.
After reclaiming the historic Charr land, the wimpy Charr leveled up higher and higher until they were able to successfully make their way further south. The Charr care not for anyone but themselves and would love the chance to claim more land as their own. They avoided human detection by sticking close to the mountains we were unable to explore (that is why theses areas are still blurry on the maps of Tyrian Grandmaster Cartographers).
After reclaiming the historic Charr land, the wimpy Charr leveled up higher and higher until they were able to successfully make their way further south. The Charr care not for anyone but themselves and would love the chance to claim more land as their own. They avoided human detection by sticking close to the mountains we were unable to explore (that is why theses areas are still blurry on the maps of Tyrian Grandmaster Cartographers).
Eldin
They probably crossed the border of small mountains between Ascalon, the Crystal Desert, and the Shiverpeaks. Remember "Blood Washes Blood"? They at least have some chance of crossing harsh tundra.
Mark Nevermiss
Well Blood Washes Blood is another can of worms. First the Charr mysteriously appear in the heart of Norn land skipping zones controlled by the Stone Summit, the allies of the their ex-enemies: the White Mantle. Then they show so much disregard for the war-like Norn.
Not only do the Charr do that to the Norn, the Stone Summit also capture Norn land and establish war camps under their very noses.
Then those oh-so-great Norn have us, the little ones, free their lands for them.
Judging by the quest a Hunter's Pride, the Norn are nothing but drunken bags of hot air.
Not only do the Charr do that to the Norn, the Stone Summit also capture Norn land and establish war camps under their very noses.
Then those oh-so-great Norn have us, the little ones, free their lands for them.
Judging by the quest a Hunter's Pride, the Norn are nothing but drunken bags of hot air.
mazey vorstagg
I've read somewhere that they did take a route just like Avai said.
Once they'd seared ascalon the bulk of their invasion force swarmed through ascalon to take Orr, only a few remained behind. That's how the humans managed to rebuild, if the charr army had occupied Ascalon our heroes would been slaughtered.
Once they'd seared ascalon the bulk of their invasion force swarmed through ascalon to take Orr, only a few remained behind. That's how the humans managed to rebuild, if the charr army had occupied Ascalon our heroes would been slaughtered.
Resident
That could have made the story more interesting 
Primusq
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| At first, Orr was saved from much of the fighting. The guilds with allegiances to Ascalon and Kryta withdrew, heading back to defend their homes. Orr regrouped, granted a moment to prepare simply because they were farther south. The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah. But eventually Ascalon fell, and the Charr arrived in Orr. |
My guess is that they just battered their way through the heart of Ascalon during the searing, before the Ascalonians had a chance to regroup.
Nemo the Capitalist
WHO knows lets ask Pyre he should know
Steboy93
I think there is some sort of pass linking ascalon to the crystal desert. I think it was metioned in the info about gw2 released in pc gamer, it said that the ascalonians had fallen back to this pass which links ascalon and the desert. After blowing the wall the charr probably went south, thorugh this pass, marched through the desert and eventually got to orr.
If this is totally incorrect then I apologize, but hopefully i got it right
If this is totally incorrect then I apologize, but hopefully i got it right
Free Runner
There is a bridge in Old Ascalon that has been destroyed by the searing. It looks like it was a bridge heading towards the Crystal Desert mountains. So there are probably a few more passages that the Warband heading to Orr took.
SilentNite
.....maybe were all just underestimating the charr and they actually are one insanely tough brute force...eh eh???
Sora267
When I read that, I just assumed that it meant that the cataclysm happened when the Charr were invading Ascalon (i.e. The Searing). Either you guys are looking too far into it, or it actually says that they invaded Orr and I'm just an idiot. In which case I'd go with what Free Runner said.
Sirius-NZ
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Originally Posted by Avai
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It might be more likely that they travelled around the east side of Ascalon, through the Blazeridge Mountains.
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine
When I read that, I just assumed that it meant that the cataclysm happened when the Charr were invading Ascalon (i.e. The Searing). Either you guys are looking too far into it, or it actually says that they invaded Orr and I'm just an idiot. In which case I'd go with what Free Runner said.
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blue.rellik
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Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
Well Blood Washes Blood is another can of worms. First the Charr mysteriously appear in the heart of Norn land skipping zones controlled by the Stone Summit, the allies of the their ex-enemies: the White Mantle. Then they show so much disregard for the war-like Norn.
Not only do the Charr do that to the Norn, the Stone Summit also capture Norn land and establish war camps under their very noses. Then those oh-so-great Norn have us, the little ones, free their lands for them. Judging by the quest a Hunter's Pride, the Norn are nothing but drunken bags of hot air. |
arsie
I believed that they crossed the Northern Shiverspeak through Norn land. The Norn and the Charr have some sort of truce, and the Norn should not have many problems with the Charr crossing their land to invade humans.
I think by the time Saul defeated the Charr, the half of Kryta was overrun with Charr, and Charr had access to Orr through marching south from North Kryta Province.
One part of the invasion force was destroyed together with Orr, and the other was defeated by Saul.
As for Charr invading Norn land, since the Charr and Norn have a truce, but does not seem to be all chummy, it would be inevitable that occasionally, Charr warbands would raid the Norn, and perhaps some Norn like to hunt Charr.
The Norn are so independent minded that they would do not seem the sort to act together against an intrusion. Look at Blood Washes Blood, the young Jora has to sort out her own family problem herself. It is their idea of independence, which may be a vital part of surviving in the North.
I think by the time Saul defeated the Charr, the half of Kryta was overrun with Charr, and Charr had access to Orr through marching south from North Kryta Province.
One part of the invasion force was destroyed together with Orr, and the other was defeated by Saul.
As for Charr invading Norn land, since the Charr and Norn have a truce, but does not seem to be all chummy, it would be inevitable that occasionally, Charr warbands would raid the Norn, and perhaps some Norn like to hunt Charr.
The Norn are so independent minded that they would do not seem the sort to act together against an intrusion. Look at Blood Washes Blood, the young Jora has to sort out her own family problem herself. It is their idea of independence, which may be a vital part of surviving in the North.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by arsie
I think by the time Saul defeated the Charr, the half of Kryta was overrun with Charr, and Charr had access to Orr through marching south from North Kryta Province.
One part of the invasion force was destroyed together with Orr, and the other was defeated by Saul. |
The question is, does this theory fit the timelines? Were the White Mantle formed at around the same time as the destruction of Orr?
Mark Nevermiss
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Originally Posted by blue.rellik
lulz wut? Someone never made it to the Southern Shiverpeak missions I see
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Evennia captured by the White Mantle and ended up in the Shiverpeaks, why?
If the White Mantle and the Stone Summit were not exactly allies, they were simply fighting a common enemy - us.
mazey vorstagg
In Ice Caves of Sorrow we see the White Mantel and Mursatt rip through squads of stone summit. They are 100% enemies.
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
Thunderhead keep mission : we are attacked by both the stonesummit and the white mantle.
Evennia captured by the White Mantle and ended up in the Shiverpeaks, why? If the White Mantle and the Stone Summit were not exactly allies, they were simply fighting a common enemy - us. |
Mark Nevermiss
Yea its true. I all but forgot about that mission, if I am not mistaken tho the Stonesummit use the siege weapons on the Mursaat, isnt it?
Fangclaw
So, there are two possibilities:
-The Charr crossed the Great Northern Wall & Ascalon right after The Searing before the Ascalonians could regroup, crossed the rather green lands in between the Southern Shiverpeaks and the Crystal Desert and made it to Orr, but most of them died in The Cataclysm (or not).
-After destroying Ascalon in The Searing, they marched to Kryta through the Far Shiverpeaks and The Verdant Cascades, where they set base and nearly claimed victory. The bulk of their forces marched to Orr while some stayed behind to keep Kryta under their sway. Thats when Saul D'Alessio showed up and destroyed the guarding Charr with help from the Mursaat. The rest (maybe not all) of the invasion force was destroyed in the Cataclysm.
-The Charr crossed the Great Northern Wall & Ascalon right after The Searing before the Ascalonians could regroup, crossed the rather green lands in between the Southern Shiverpeaks and the Crystal Desert and made it to Orr, but most of them died in The Cataclysm (or not).
-After destroying Ascalon in The Searing, they marched to Kryta through the Far Shiverpeaks and The Verdant Cascades, where they set base and nearly claimed victory. The bulk of their forces marched to Orr while some stayed behind to keep Kryta under their sway. Thats when Saul D'Alessio showed up and destroyed the guarding Charr with help from the Mursaat. The rest (maybe not all) of the invasion force was destroyed in the Cataclysm.
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
Yea its true. I all but forgot about that mission, if I am not mistaken tho the Stonesummit use the siege weapons on the Mursaat, isnt it?
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Sophitia Leafblade
Another option is that the Charr build a mighty Armada of ships to the east of their kingdom (an area not on the current map) and sailed down past Elona and then around and up to Orr .
From looking at the maps and knowing that the Crystal Dessert was once a sea that separated Orr and Elona from tryia its logical to assume that there is another Ocean just off the right hand side of the map
This may not be the method they took but its certainly a possibility to consider
From looking at the maps and knowing that the Crystal Dessert was once a sea that separated Orr and Elona from tryia its logical to assume that there is another Ocean just off the right hand side of the map
This may not be the method they took but its certainly a possibility to consider
Born to Mes
There's an entrance to the hall of heroes in occupied Charr lands. There is also an entrance to the hall of heroes in the the tomb of the primeval kings which is in the desert. The Charr could have easily gone in one way and out the other. As I am sure we are all aware the entrance in the tomes was corrupted by the Darkness. The Darkness is a servant of Menzies and Menzies is helping out Abbadon. So it could be entirely possible that the Darkness made it possible for the Charr to travel from the entrance in their territory to the entrance in the tomes of the primeval kings. From there they could have easily traveled to Orr.
They might not have even gone through Ascalon, they could have gone around it via the eastern frontier. That would be the easiest way to go. Through the chaos of the Searing they could have easily slipped through, even in large numbers. To further add to the confusion a large number of Charr could have entered through the Breach, take several prisoners and engage in guerrilla tactics to take attention away from the eastern frontier. Although with the near complete absence of Charr south of the wall, that would suggest that the Ascalon Army managed to regain some control and only have to deal with the occasional raiding party that makes it through the breach or comes from the eastern frontier.
Another possibility is that they traveled down the beaches on the western side of the shiverpeaks. Although there is little evidence other than it looks like a viable way that they might have gone.
They might not have even gone through Ascalon, they could have gone around it via the eastern frontier. That would be the easiest way to go. Through the chaos of the Searing they could have easily slipped through, even in large numbers. To further add to the confusion a large number of Charr could have entered through the Breach, take several prisoners and engage in guerrilla tactics to take attention away from the eastern frontier. Although with the near complete absence of Charr south of the wall, that would suggest that the Ascalon Army managed to regain some control and only have to deal with the occasional raiding party that makes it through the breach or comes from the eastern frontier.
Another possibility is that they traveled down the beaches on the western side of the shiverpeaks. Although there is little evidence other than it looks like a viable way that they might have gone.
Eldin
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Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
Well Blood Washes Blood is another can of worms. First the Charr mysteriously appear in the heart of Norn land skipping zones controlled by the Stone Summit, the allies of the their ex-enemies: the White Mantle. Then they show so much disregard for the war-like Norn.
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
There is a bridge in Old Ascalon that has been destroyed by the searing. It looks like it was a bridge heading towards the Crystal Desert mountains. So there are probably a few more passages that the Warband heading to Orr took.
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Gmr Leon
You guys are still stuck on this? I am not one to advise using Occam's Razor on everything, but this is one of those cases where it's the best thing to do.
When the Charr attacked Ascalon alongside the Searing the Ascalonians were plunged into chaos. The military was in shambles and people were dying left and right, as a result the Great Northern Wall is left pretty much vulnerable.
The Charr take advantage of this, blitzkrieg through Ascalon leaving only a few troops behind and make their way over the Blazeridge Mountains. For those that don't know, it's the southern mountain range at the bottom of Ascalon. Once over the Blazeridge Mountains they make their way through the Crystal Desert to Orr, where they basically cut through their troops like butter.
As they're at the gates to Arah or getting there, Vizier Khilbron goes beneath Arah and reads the forbidden scroll triggering the Cataclysm which pretty much destroys Orr and the invading Charr forces.
To put it simply:
Blitzkrieg through Ascalon, go over mountains, through the Crystal Desert, and trigger the blowing up of Orr.
They have yet to show any knowledge of shipbuilding at all. So any sea voyages are pretty much out of the question working with what we're given. The White Mantle did exist during the time of the Searing as the Charr seem to have attacked both Kryta and Ascalon simultaneously.
Kryta was on the verge of falling to the Charr until Saul's miraculous defeat of them and the pushing of their forces back. The BMP mission associated with him is clearly set in the time after the Charr had been pushed back thus they are somewhere north of Kryta. Remember, Saul was "ambushed and killed" by the Charr while behind enemy lines as his network of spies failed him that day.
I hope I don't come off as an arrogant jerk, but this isn't even the tip of Tyria's mysteries especially with the additions to the lore over the years.
Eldin
Sorry Leon, we KNOW they just blazed through Ascalon whilst their people were preoccupied and broken.
We want to know how they got over the mountains and weren't eaten by Sand Wurms.
We want to know how they got over the mountains and weren't eaten by Sand Wurms.
Gmr Leon
Ah, yes, well..That's a better thing to discuss. Even I'm still stuck on that one.
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by Eldin
Ah, I've heard mentions of this several times, even people claiming it can be seen from Regent Valley. Care to elaborate? |
Longasc
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Originally Posted by Avai
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1.) charr armies passing through the southern mountain ranges of the Ascalon region
This could be possible. Then they followed the green strip to Orr
2.) Charr using ships to go to Orr
Rather unlikely, they could have followed the coastline and would not have needed ships. They might have ignored the crystal desert as it was just a desert and they might have known of a rich and fertile kingdom named "Orr" to the east and headed straight for it
The Charr are indeed like the mongols. They invaded Ascalon, Kryta, Orr... basically, almost the whole world...^^
Azael Durge
I wish i could see Orr as it was, temperal tonics anyone?, seems unlikely that they would have gone to all this trouble to get there. Has anyone ever thought that they didnt? Maybe the Vizier just blew it up and claimed it was due to the Charr.
However i'd still love to visit this Atlantean style city.
However i'd still love to visit this Atlantean style city.
draxynnic
The Charr weren't doing it (just) for land. They see humanity as an infestation, the race responsible for the fall of their empire and their greatest enemies. They were looking to wipe out all of humanity that they could get within reach, getting more land was just an added perk.
If it wasn't for the Crystal Desert, they'd probably have gone for Elona as well.
If it wasn't for the Crystal Desert, they'd probably have gone for Elona as well.
Gmr Leon
Actually, the Charr's war with Ascalon, is completely about land. Originally all of what we know of Ascalon was within Charr control, the humans pushed them out of it.
Other than that, yes, they pretty much do hate humanity. Of course there are some who hate it to a lesser degree..
Other than that, yes, they pretty much do hate humanity. Of course there are some who hate it to a lesser degree..
Jakz0r
What I want to know is, where are the alive Orrians.
I wish we could go to Orr..if I had one wish for this game other and GW:Utopia it would be explorable Orr.
I wish we could go to Orr..if I had one wish for this game other and GW:Utopia it would be explorable Orr.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by GmrLeon
Actually, the Charr's war with Ascalon, is completely about land. Originally all of what we know of Ascalon was within Charr control, the humans pushed them out of it.
Other than that, yes, they pretty much do hate humanity. Of course there are some who hate it to a lesser degree.. |
It's become much more than a question of land. The Charr even took the resort of worshipping 'gods' - where previously the Charr had considered any creature greater than them as a threat to be destroyed and nothing else - if that would help them defeat the humans. It may have started as being about land, but now it's personal... okay, better make that racial. But the sentiment still stands - the objective of the Charr during the Searing wasn't to capture land (even that that had been lost in the founding of Ascalon) but the death or enslavement of every human on the continent. That they'd then get all the land of Kryta and Orr if they'd succeeded - and Ascalon when it recovered - was an added bonus. It actually might even have been interesting to see how much of that they would have been able to keep afterwards.
Eldin
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Originally Posted by Jakz0r
What I want to know is, where are the alive Orrians.
I wish we could go to Orr..if I had one wish for this game other and GW:Utopia it would be explorable Orr. |