Alright, so an alliance group of mine decides to Ursanway HM vloxen excavations. We have consumables, candy canes, all that stuff.
6 Ursans of decent rank.
2 Monks.
So we start the dungeon in hardmode, and everything is going okay, as we try to carefully pull and not overaggro. We hit a rough patch at the start, but then we started going smoother.
Everything was okay until the second last mob on the first floor towards the entrance to the next level (where the gate lock is). We come across a massive sized stone summit mob, from what looks like Slaver's Exile. They have ressers (we had frozen soil for that), healers, protectos, rangers, necros, warriors, and a Jagged Bones MM preloaded with 10 minions. Grrrreat! we Focus fire on the monks, we wipe. We remove dp and focus on the MM, we die. Basically if we try to focus fire, we get bodyblocked by minions, they have too much healing, or we simply get ganked to death by the oversized HM mob.
THe problem is, the 10 minions NEVER die. The minion master will spam death nova and Blood of the master forever and never run out of energy or die. This mob couldn't die, so we made a mad dash to the next floor, wiping 7/8, but making it to the second level.
After that, everything goes smooth. UNTIL we get to the MM Taskmaster boss The dredge slaves die infront of them, triggering corpses, and as we try to go in and spike the monk, we die because of the insane mob size and damage from death nova, and bodyblocking from minions. So we res right near them, and try to focus fire on the MM, HOWEVER, we get bodyblocked at the stairs, and die instantly, and res ontop of them, forever wiping every 10 seconds due to death nova, ETC. THis mob could not be skipped.
What were we doing wrong? Ursan usually works in most cases, but how do you deal with an oversized, overpowered, cheating balanced stone summit mob?
Vloxen Excavations HM: Stone Summit Headache
Danax
bifter
I did this in a guild group last week, and it was still pretty rough. Aggro locking is necessary for the tough groups I think - lure them back as far as you can to the very limit of their aggro, and you can usually pick off one or two while others are running back to their start position.
The MM boss' group doesn't settle (ie doesn't run back to its start point), but its behaviour seems glitchy. We managed to pull most of them back a loooooong way (round the corner and in the water), to a point where the rangers and monks just stayed still out of aggro range not doing anything, after which we could easily nuke the minions, the the melee, the boss, then just mop up the rest. Our tank and one monk died by the shrine, so we wiped out this whole group with a team of 6 - only one monk. As you found, you can get shrine camped by this group, so it's a very good idea to lure them all away from the res shrine before you party wipe anyway ><
The MM boss' group doesn't settle (ie doesn't run back to its start point), but its behaviour seems glitchy. We managed to pull most of them back a loooooong way (round the corner and in the water), to a point where the rangers and monks just stayed still out of aggro range not doing anything, after which we could easily nuke the minions, the the melee, the boss, then just mop up the rest. Our tank and one monk died by the shrine, so we wiped out this whole group with a team of 6 - only one monk. As you found, you can get shrine camped by this group, so it's a very good idea to lure them all away from the res shrine before you party wipe anyway ><
Xylia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danax
What were we doing wrong? Ursan usually works in most cases, but how do you deal with an oversized, overpowered, cheating balanced stone summit mob?
With a balanced team of your own? Ursan is not the cure for all ills. A smiter or Balthazar dervish will tear through minions - you might consider bringing one. You could also bring a necro with corpse exploitation skills that cast faster than minions do, so that the MM won't have corpses to raise. Finally, you could use [wiki]Verata's Aura[/wiki] to steal the minions.
With a balanced team of your own? Ursan is not the cure for all ills. A smiter or Balthazar dervish will tear through minions - you might consider bringing one. You could also bring a necro with corpse exploitation skills that cast faster than minions do, so that the MM won't have corpses to raise. Finally, you could use [wiki]Verata's Aura[/wiki] to steal the minions.
bifter
I have to say, I think Ursan would actually be better than most balanced teams in Vloxen HM, purely for the spammable AoE knockdown chains. The root of the problem isn't the minions, it's the hard res and the very, very effective healers in the stone summit groups. They remove conditions well, so daze isn't particularly effective against them. Knockdowns and interrupts that don't rely on applied conditions (or anti-caster hexes I guess) are the way to go.
Get the hard resser and one of the two monks down, and the rest will usually follow fast.
Get the hard resser and one of the two monks down, and the rest will usually follow fast.
Melkorium
Jeez, I've been reading this forum for a while and everyone says you just hit the Ursan button and then you win. You mean this is not the case? You mean they've exagerrated?
Xylia
Quote:
Originally Posted by bifter
it's the hard res
You could always bring [wiki]Frozen Soil[/wiki]. In fact, since it is a spirit, you could even bring it on an ursan, if you didn't mind a little waiting between battles.
You could always bring [wiki]Frozen Soil[/wiki]. In fact, since it is a spirit, you could even bring it on an ursan, if you didn't mind a little waiting between battles.
DarklingKiller
For this tough dungeon, we brought along 3 fire nukers who repeatedly pounded the stone summits with meteor shower. Their backline dropped extremely quickly along with their minion masters. Holding aggro is crucial in this dungeon as the wars will tear through your backline quickly.
Miss Puddles
i did this with an ursan group, and we did wipe a few times there. the key was really gw 101: take out monks first. then the mm's, then everything else leaving the boss last. call targets and you should be golden.
tekDragon
They do remove conditions well, but not well enough. I managed to hench this dungeons with consumables (and a bit of luck I'm sure) using the necro team and BHA and epidemic. I suspect your Ursan group would have worked better if you had went with 5 ursans, 2 monks and one character to annoy casters.
Wolala Wagaga
you can pull the minions away first because they will follow u no matter how far u retreat
Jaceb
Regular tips & thoughts for H&H (wall of text but it might be usefull ).
Kill order more or less should be: Defender - Summoner & Warder & Dreamer - Ranger.
Kill order for lvl 2: Healer/Defender - Melee - Sages (Summoner) - Ranger.
Skill Possibilities & ideas For You
--------------------------------
These skills worked somewhat for me, Frozen Soil(Rapid Fire & BHA) + MM (jaggedbones) + SS/SV. Bring [wiki]Barbs[/wiki] & [wiki]Weaken Armor[/wiki] [wiki]Enfeeble[/wiki] for total steamrolling vs melee, some sort of melee defense is a must ([wiki]Sympathetic Visage[/wiki] can help too). Without MM / Frozen Soil & BHA - it's really difficult to get anywhere let alone beat the lvl 2 groups.
Heroes should have [wiki]Hex Eater Signet[/wiki] / [wiki]Power Drain[/wiki] is a plus to survive the initial fight on lvl 1. [wiki]Soul Barbs[/wiki] is excellent if you decide to use necros since all summits, use enchants and they like to spam them, weak on damage but considering they're casting alot.
Another possibility is to make an anti-caster/melee mesmer hero with [wiki]Backfire[/wiki] [wiki]Power Spike[/wiki] then that hero/person should also have [wiki]Physical Resistance[/wiki] because of melee. [wiki]Power Block[/wiki] can also have some uses in here, making the healers completely useless. An necro with [wiki]Soul Leech[/wiki] can be powerfull too.
Yet another possibility to deal with hexes and have nice ways to interrupt things is to have a signet-spammer mesmer with [wiki]Frustration[/wiki] & [wiki]Ineptitude[/wiki] & [wiki]Signet of Clumsiness[/wiki] & [wiki]Power Drain[/wiki] [wiki]Leech Signet[/wiki] & [wiki]Hex Eater Signet[/wiki] & [wiki]Mantra of Inscription[/wiki].
Water elementalist can work Deep Freeze + Maelstrom and some blindness can provide needed defenses for your party. You cant rely on BHA to stick around long enough so you might need to use so called "Condition Overload" with a second necro who has Virulence, to cover BHA that is. Putrid Bile can be a nice suprise for the summits. If you decide to use that, take Soul Barbs too.
But there's no holy trinity for this place as there's many things that you need but cant have, BHA&MM being the only two that is "a must have" - 3rd is a tough choice.
Some Other Quick Observations / tips:
-------------------------------------
The first big group of summits in the tunnel on lvl 1 is using alot of mesmer hexes. Thus, if they aren't removed from your backline in timely fashion there will be a big problem soon. Interrupts in general aren't an dangerous issue here but those hexes are. Dont put anyone together due to SandStorm & Earthquake, you should deal with the Warder soon.
Just remember to micro frozen soil to a safe location, hide it somewhere but within range. Remember that they like to kill the spirit if they see it / find it!. Dont let them & watch for those minions as they like to kill the spirit. Make sure it's re-made before it expires. There's been many times where we were doing alright then all of sudden the spirit died and we wiped because of one leeroy minion, thats all it takes. Best tactical situation is when the summoner is the first to attack you, take him out and the summits will be too busy with their own minions :P.
LVL 2 is more melee instead, 3-4 carvers in each group & 1 crusher but less mesmer hexes but those carvers can do some serious damage all around. 1 healer (some of them can have 2) in each group, 1 MM, sometimes 1-2 sages. Entry fight is hard when you dont have any minions and it can be even harder than normally depending how many carvers there is.
Double monks (defender/priest/healer) combinations are very frustrating and unfortunately you need to fight against three of these groups. If your interrupts/dps can down the priest you -should- be okay to down the rest too. Strong enchant removal is recommended vs these, defenders heals are only enchants.
The double monks will kite which gets annoying really fast. Their skill set is very effective, they remove all the hexes & all conditions in light speed. You will hate these guys a lot. In short, these guys are what makes this place so difficult (or should i say frustrating).
I have to be honest here, there's been only TWO times when i've been able to get to Bellok thanks to these dual healer groups both times we only defeated these groups because we were lucky. Slaver's healers are much weaker than these guys and can be lured to your AoE because they have a weakness in their build but Vloxen duo-monks cant be always lured into it. On open ground it's really difficult to defeat these groups, with pulling you might have a better change.
The Mesmer taskmaster (lvl2) has a similar gang with 2 healers that you have to clear, this group doesn't always reset they sometimes remain where they wiped you. Spider boss should be left until alone until you need to clear some DP & signet recharge. On LvL 2 dont ever fight summits near an activated beacon - "spawn camping".
Another trick, there's those rats around kill them when you need to resupply minions. Also a pulling trick the Summit Healer (when the only monk in a group) has a habit of leeroying in front. He will be there before the others, very easy way to take down. You should pull with a bow just to exploit that "weakness" .
Final Comments:
----------------
I dont think anything has frustrated me more this than this place, not even old-thk. It's so easy to wipe (wipe lurks in every pull) and it's so frustrating to fight against those duo-monks, it's a little overkill in HM imo. I almost popped a vein while being down there. Heh, maybe the designer did this place with ursan group in mind
. Come on, it should be defeatable even without out but thanks to those hm-buffed healers it's really difficult to do the Normal Way. Btw!. Two Gnashers can raise upto 20 minions and keep them up for ever, thats bombing fun for everyone.
Kill order more or less should be: Defender - Summoner & Warder & Dreamer - Ranger.
Kill order for lvl 2: Healer/Defender - Melee - Sages (Summoner) - Ranger.
Skill Possibilities & ideas For You
--------------------------------
These skills worked somewhat for me, Frozen Soil(Rapid Fire & BHA) + MM (jaggedbones) + SS/SV. Bring [wiki]Barbs[/wiki] & [wiki]Weaken Armor[/wiki] [wiki]Enfeeble[/wiki] for total steamrolling vs melee, some sort of melee defense is a must ([wiki]Sympathetic Visage[/wiki] can help too). Without MM / Frozen Soil & BHA - it's really difficult to get anywhere let alone beat the lvl 2 groups.
Heroes should have [wiki]Hex Eater Signet[/wiki] / [wiki]Power Drain[/wiki] is a plus to survive the initial fight on lvl 1. [wiki]Soul Barbs[/wiki] is excellent if you decide to use necros since all summits, use enchants and they like to spam them, weak on damage but considering they're casting alot.
Another possibility is to make an anti-caster/melee mesmer hero with [wiki]Backfire[/wiki] [wiki]Power Spike[/wiki] then that hero/person should also have [wiki]Physical Resistance[/wiki] because of melee. [wiki]Power Block[/wiki] can also have some uses in here, making the healers completely useless. An necro with [wiki]Soul Leech[/wiki] can be powerfull too.
Yet another possibility to deal with hexes and have nice ways to interrupt things is to have a signet-spammer mesmer with [wiki]Frustration[/wiki] & [wiki]Ineptitude[/wiki] & [wiki]Signet of Clumsiness[/wiki] & [wiki]Power Drain[/wiki] [wiki]Leech Signet[/wiki] & [wiki]Hex Eater Signet[/wiki] & [wiki]Mantra of Inscription[/wiki].
Water elementalist can work Deep Freeze + Maelstrom and some blindness can provide needed defenses for your party. You cant rely on BHA to stick around long enough so you might need to use so called "Condition Overload" with a second necro who has Virulence, to cover BHA that is. Putrid Bile can be a nice suprise for the summits. If you decide to use that, take Soul Barbs too.
But there's no holy trinity for this place as there's many things that you need but cant have, BHA&MM being the only two that is "a must have" - 3rd is a tough choice.
Some Other Quick Observations / tips:
-------------------------------------
The first big group of summits in the tunnel on lvl 1 is using alot of mesmer hexes. Thus, if they aren't removed from your backline in timely fashion there will be a big problem soon. Interrupts in general aren't an dangerous issue here but those hexes are. Dont put anyone together due to SandStorm & Earthquake, you should deal with the Warder soon.
Just remember to micro frozen soil to a safe location, hide it somewhere but within range. Remember that they like to kill the spirit if they see it / find it!. Dont let them & watch for those minions as they like to kill the spirit. Make sure it's re-made before it expires. There's been many times where we were doing alright then all of sudden the spirit died and we wiped because of one leeroy minion, thats all it takes. Best tactical situation is when the summoner is the first to attack you, take him out and the summits will be too busy with their own minions :P.
LVL 2 is more melee instead, 3-4 carvers in each group & 1 crusher but less mesmer hexes but those carvers can do some serious damage all around. 1 healer (some of them can have 2) in each group, 1 MM, sometimes 1-2 sages. Entry fight is hard when you dont have any minions and it can be even harder than normally depending how many carvers there is.
Double monks (defender/priest/healer) combinations are very frustrating and unfortunately you need to fight against three of these groups. If your interrupts/dps can down the priest you -should- be okay to down the rest too. Strong enchant removal is recommended vs these, defenders heals are only enchants.
The double monks will kite which gets annoying really fast. Their skill set is very effective, they remove all the hexes & all conditions in light speed. You will hate these guys a lot. In short, these guys are what makes this place so difficult (or should i say frustrating).
I have to be honest here, there's been only TWO times when i've been able to get to Bellok thanks to these dual healer groups both times we only defeated these groups because we were lucky. Slaver's healers are much weaker than these guys and can be lured to your AoE because they have a weakness in their build but Vloxen duo-monks cant be always lured into it. On open ground it's really difficult to defeat these groups, with pulling you might have a better change.
The Mesmer taskmaster (lvl2) has a similar gang with 2 healers that you have to clear, this group doesn't always reset they sometimes remain where they wiped you. Spider boss should be left until alone until you need to clear some DP & signet recharge. On LvL 2 dont ever fight summits near an activated beacon - "spawn camping".
Another trick, there's those rats around kill them when you need to resupply minions. Also a pulling trick the Summit Healer (when the only monk in a group) has a habit of leeroying in front. He will be there before the others, very easy way to take down. You should pull with a bow just to exploit that "weakness" .
Final Comments:
----------------
I dont think anything has frustrated me more this than this place, not even old-thk. It's so easy to wipe (wipe lurks in every pull) and it's so frustrating to fight against those duo-monks, it's a little overkill in HM imo. I almost popped a vein while being down there. Heh, maybe the designer did this place with ursan group in mind
. Come on, it should be defeatable even without out but thanks to those hm-buffed healers it's really difficult to do the Normal Way. Btw!. Two Gnashers can raise upto 20 minions and keep them up for ever, thats bombing fun for everyone.
VitisVinifera
yep that's the spot I got stuck on. Eventually I broke down and used all 3 trader consumables, full h&h, me ursan. Then it was a breeze. The key for me (besides the consumables of course) is for my MM to have bloodstained, that coupled with the consumables meant he raises mins before the Stone Summits do. Target the rezzers first. Shouldn't be too hard after that.
patrona
me as a terra tank, a splinter barrage with EoE and FS, 2 SH's, 2monks, a spoil victor and a SS. with some luck and some good aggro's it isn't that hard. (the hardest groups are that ones before the MM-boss)
make sure to take as many candy canes as you can so the tank don't have DP.
make sure to take as many candy canes as you can so the tank don't have DP.
tekDragon
Remember to star from vlox falls, if only to avoid the room with the Oozes and make the first floor all that much shorter. You'll be 2 easy mobs away from the tough summit group on the 1st floor. Take it as a dry run, if you wipe on the 1st group, then start over and re-tool because the 2nd floor will be torture.