Crash farming, health, and OCD.

genofreek

genofreek

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

USA

Jenova's Apocolyptic Remains [JAR]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkodyssey
My god man get a F***ing clue!

I love how people REFUSE to take the blame for thier own actions. Anytime something like this occurrs, whats the first thing that happens? Lets blame it on someone else. This is the root of things from kids bringing guns to school and insurance rates being to high. There is no accountability for ones self. Example, its not the rock salt manufacturers fault if you slip and fall on a stretch of ice outside the local coffe shop. So why are people suing them, the owner, the employees, the landscapers, and the local municipality when incidents like this occurr?

This chain of thinking begins very young with parents and thier children and continues as learned behavior as an adult.

Your opinion, isn't an opinion it is a fundamental flaw in a learned behavior. You need to learn what responsibility is before you can understand what I am saying.

Your response will be ignored because you don't understand the basis of the of the problem.
QFT, man. QFT. Personal responsibility is becoming a thing of the past.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haijiibirdhead
You really dont understance Obcessive behaviour do you. There is no "learn your limits", because the compulsion becomes near irresistable. If psychological problems were as easy as "do this, or just dont do this", then do you think that psychologists would be paid so much or even exist at all?
to advocate moderation to a compulsion is blatent stupidity
Quote:
What Anet can do , as I said in the Original post , is that Anet can not set up instances where OCD behaviour is triggered for people to farm 20+ hrs straight. They can make it so that people would be motivated to farm, but over a healthy period of time.
right..a compulsive gamer/addict/alcoholic/abuser should do it but in moderation.......ohhh wait........you just said it is almost impossible to contain........so what is your brilliantly moronic solution?

Quote:
imo , being a responsible company is doing that. Lets say that someone died from the Polar bear thing who was under an obcessive compulsion. Perhaps some of the blame might fall at the person , but much of the blame imo , falls at the corporation for setting that scenario up I think.
no it is the persons fault completely as NCsoft has no control over a persons deviant obsessive behavior

Hailey Anne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

A/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haijiibirdhead

imo , being a responsible company is doing that. Lets say that someone died from the Polar bear thing who was under an obcessive compulsion. Perhaps some of the blame might fall at the person , but much of the blame imo , falls at the corporation for setting that scenario up I think.
No one forced us to play this game to start.
They are setting up a fun game for us to play its not there fault if people don't know when to stop.
Most of us actually know when to quit you cant blame them for people being ocd.

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
no it is the persons fault completely as NCsoft has no control over a persons deviant obsessive behavior
Didn't a mod tell you to stop bolding everything, because your opinion is just as important as everyone else's? I think that's the first thing I saw on this site. Anyway. What you are saying can be applied to guns. Is it the gun manufacturer's fault that the kids shot up a school? No. It IS the person's fault for buying a game that is unhealthy for them to play.

You can't see me

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

Saying that the game is responsible for a person's death is equally stupid to saying that school is responsible for teen suicide, or that it is the fault of the gun seller for selling a gun for all gun related accidents.

It is no way the companies fault or responsibility to deal with these people on a level that puts them in a safe zone. These are people that should be getting help, but that, again, is not the responsibility of the company. The hourly warning is more than enough to tell you that you need a break. If the game says you've been playing 12 hours, you do the math. Who's fault is it?

It is not the company's fault in any situation if a person buys their product and abuses it. End of story. And Loviatar, seriously, stop bolding all your print.



When a person chooses to abuse a product that would not be harmful if it were used in moderation, I personally think it becomes their fault.

Kusandaa

Kusandaa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

N/Mo

Ugh after 2 hours of forging this post and listening my mom ramble *laughs*...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhedd
Your thread is now 2 pages long. Please take a break.

^_^
I lol'ed IRL. x].

My experience with this:

I've always been a big gamer, since I'm 4 years old. I'm 22 years old now. I live with another gamer, 23 years old, who's been playing for a similar time. He plays less than I do, but we do spend a lot of times on our respective computers. We talk a lot with each other, and I'd say we have a healthy relation, since we share activities and chores. We have good times, we have less good times (can't say I've had a bad time in 3 years).

I can play up to 3 hours without a decent break, but anything longer than this and you lose me. I NEED a break at some point, because I need food, water, bio breaks, feeding the cats, homework... and for my own mental health. The most I've done was 7 hours ONCE, I had a couple of BRB moments, but it was a helluva straining on me, and I refuse to do it again today. Anything above 3 hours, I'll need a break somewhere in there just to do something else.

Right now (at the VERY moment, my husband couldn't come with me), I'm in an entirely different situation. I'm a university student on a break until... a couple days from now on *groan* with my parents at my grandparents' house, in the middle of nowhere with no place for the young to hang out except the bar (and I hate the bar scene). All my friends are in Montreal except one who's leaving, and had a hard time seeing because she's got a big party large family. Nothing on TV despite the numbers on channels offered, semi-bad weather with no outdoor equipment anyways.

So my mom looks at me, sitting at the computer for most of the day, only leaving it after 2 hours or so.

She thought I was an addict and that my life was going to get ruined over it. She started screaming at me because I had just got back after a 2 hour and a half break break of watching a movie and falling asleep over on it; she thought I had been at the comp for 5 or 6 hours without a break. It took me an hour to calm her down and to reassure her I had gotten back at the comp a short time ago (15, 20 minutes?) and she still yelled at me at the end... after nearly another hour. In total, I might have spend 2 hours telling her how I viewed this.

My father witnessed the whole thing. He never worried about me. All that time he was telling her to cut me some slack, that I was a young man with nothing else to do then spending time with his nephews (5 yr. and 2 yr. olds) or at the computer, and to him it was fairly normal that I was on the computer since I could talk to my husband at the same time as I played a game. He found my ways totally healthy for me, but my mom wouldn't listen a word. Even today she asked me if I was addicted to my "online game". I don't think she understands it's pretty much the only place I can find people in my age range, and that I'm not "alone" so to speak.

My mom doesn't get that the situation here and my situation at my home are very different - I leave home at 8-8:30 in the morning, and barely come back before either 4pm or 6-7pm... then it's food, gaming, homework, gaming, snuggling with husband before bedtime. She's not there to see that (lol). So she sees me here and goes nuts.

=-=-=-=

However, when it comes to people spending 36+ hours in a row on an online game... erm... sorry, but they must have a serious problems. I know I spend a lot of time at times but not THAT much... I believe in responsability. The acts I pose are mine, and I'm not escaping that. If I spend 36 hours online, I won't blame the game for addicting me - I'll blame myself for staying so ****ing long.

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusandaa
I'm 22 years old now.
o.O And you let your mother yell at you for that long? It seems your mother doesn't quite understand, and yelling the whole time isn't going to do anything except cause tension/anger between the two of you, if anything. Have you explained it to her?

borris_uk

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2005

Cornwall, UK

Ebon Vamps

W/Mo

Can't blame anyone doing 10-30 hours straight in the hopes of getting one of these though really.

People have been offering 1500+ Ectos to get one...let me see...that's around 7 MILLION gold.

Without a drop like that, how long would you have to farm to get that much? A lifetime maybe! 30 hours seems like a good deal to me.

Incidentally, at current rates, to buy that much gold from a Bot farmer would be around £450...about 10 hours work at my current charge rate (in the real world).

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

All you need to do is translate the time that you've spent "crash farming" into the amount of real life money you can convert that gold into...and you'll realize that you're time is better spent doing something else.

Now don't get me wrong - some people really like the repetition, so crash farming may be enjoyable to them. To everyone else that is trying to get an intangible ingame reward...you may want to rethink what you're doing.

HuntMaster Avatar

HuntMaster Avatar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Around

Pillar's of Earth [ROCK]

W/

its like a crack addict, yes it is their fault normally that they exposed themselves to the situation, but without outside help they will continue on their course til they become ill.

Is it Anet/NCsofts fault? thats up for debate, i dont see a temp ban for people playing more than 24 hours. and who actually reads that break msg anymore? i'v seen it hundreds of times, i normally just ignore it.

and saying someone deserves to die is beyond ignorant. you have no idea what is going on in that persons life to compel them into such an action.

some of you people seem to be souless. sounds like you have been over exposed to the internet and need to step back and rejoin the civil human race. the generation of online moraless people is growing out of hand.

RLBadKarma

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

SW Missouri USA

The Northern Hoard

W/E

Ultimate Solution:

Microsoft can code a mandatory logoff into the OS. No more problem.




They seem to want to control everything else, why not this too?











Please understand, the "Sarcasm" button was on.

Shakkara

Shakkara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

W/

Not a joke.



Yes I slept, but the PC was on so I could get started again the moment I woke up.

HuntMaster Avatar

HuntMaster Avatar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Around

Pillar's of Earth [ROCK]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakkara
Not a joke.



Yes I slept, but the PC was on so I could get started again the moment I woke up.
i thought the game disconnected after 24 hours. wow. amazing. i tip my hat to you good sir/mam.

milan

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

BONE

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by genofreek
Personal responsibility is becoming a thing of the past.
So true, so sad.

If it wasn't polar bears it could be ectos, titles, HA, 55hp'ing etc.

If it wasn't guild wars it could be pong...

Anet are not there to be a parent figure or your therapist.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar
i thought the game disconnected after 24 hours. wow. amazing. i tip my hat to you good sir/mam.
Huh? What's so awesome about leaving GW running for a week?

Unless you were being sarcastic...

Anywho, my two cents: People should be praising Anet for their game design. With map travel and heroes/henchies there really is no reason to keep playing the game at any time...

unlike other MMORPGS... cough cough.

Of course, this does tend to support the idea of making the Polar Bear mini available year round.

truemyths

truemyths

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

The games are designed to be addictive. Sort of like how soap operas are designed to be addictive (keep em coming back for more). I recall reading one study that specifically discussed PVP elements and how addictive they were.

There are many studies debating video game addiction and whether or not it is a disorder.

Good thread here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...addiction.html

and on international game developer's assoc.
http://www.igda.org/articles/austin_addiction.php

and many many many others out there.

I think the warning GW put in (you have been playing for x hours) is good. It would be more interesting to see them put in a clock (local time is XX), but they likely won't do that because that would shorten playing time.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by truemyths
I think the warning GW put in (you have been playing for x hours) is good. It would be more interesting to see them put in a clock (local time is XX), but they likely won't do that because that would shorten playing time.
actually, there is no reason Anet wants you to play Guild Wars continuously. No monthly fee.

Best Guild Wars customer = someone who buys all the Chapters and never plays.

Shadow Spirit

Shadow Spirit

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Chicago

your cat eats dog food [pup]

N/E

Other games may be designed to be addictive, that is up for debate, but I think GW is designed to do exactly the oppisite, just to be a fun diversion.

If you are the type of person who could get addicted to GW, you could get addicted to anything.

People need to be aware of themselves and their real life needs. People also need to take responsiblity for their actions. But with people like Jack Thompson running around this is becoming a foreign concept.

I think this whole issue is part of a much larger problem. Now that we live in the age of being "connected" 24/7, it seems that a lot of people have actually become disconnected. With reality. With humanity.

Just look at some of the responses we see on these forums. There is a disconnect. I would wager that most people flaming wouldn't say those things to a person's face if they could see the reaction they're causing.

Remember, there is a real live PERSON at the other end of the 'net...

just my $0.02

the_jos

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

I'd like to share some thoughts on this one.

Before I got involved in the GW game and community I was playing other games and some for long hours.
However, the most time I spend straight was probably not on games, but on computer programming.
Trying to get that little thing working, seeing it work but causing a problem somewhere else, fix it, new problem, rinse and repeat.

Pull the plug out the computer when I was programming and I would start making flowcharts or think up possible solutions to try when I could get back at the computer again.
Just let the possibilities pass the mind and evaluate them without actually coding.

The whole problem is related to a person and not to the game.

I don't think it's the responsibility for a company like A-net to even try solving this.
It's the responsibility of the adult player or his/her parents in case of a minor.
The warning is ok, but only a reminder to those that are aware of the problem.

I know know what problems I might encounter and how to solve them.

Given that many people with a real addiction most likely don't have a huge social life there is not much outside control and correction.
Like with all problem, you have to solve them yourself, but help from someone else could be usefull.
But in these cases, that someone else should be someone you have a social connection with and not some provider of an online game.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakkara
Not a joke.



Yes I slept, but the PC was on so I could get started again the moment I woke up.
Quoted because it's the quality of the game that'll keep you addicted the most.

And to add: I've heard of someone who's died in Korea playing Unreal Tournament.

Fluffiliscious

Fluffiliscious

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

US

Gods Army of the [Dead]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Nonetheless, ANet can't be held responsible - and they're actually trying to go against it. The mini does nothing besides walk around and look angry once in awhile. You won't deal more damage, get more loot, nothing.
I agree with Bryant Again. I have OCD and GW is one of the only games that I've played online that I haven't felt addicted to. I don't have a "need" to play, I play because I enjoy it and quit when I'm ready to do something else. Heaven forbid I ever take up WoW....

ElinoraNeSangre

ElinoraNeSangre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Near Seattle, WA

Talionis De Cineris [EXUR]

N/Me

There's two kinds of people with this sort of behavior in my opinion. People who get addicted and people who have an honest compulsion. People who get addicted have no excuse on the basis that they still have judgment to avoid it, and people with an honest compulsion who ALSO have no excuse because if they've got something like that they should be noticing and getting some help. People have to really take responsibility for what they do, the more the world gets foam padded the more we end up with societies of wusses that don't know how to deal with their problems or with real life. This stuff isn't going to go away.

It's like any other thing, like a gambling addiction or a drinking problem - freaking notice you have a problem then do something about it. It really isn't rocket science. And I'm speaking as someone who does have a touch of diagnosed OCD herself - not enough to cause me trouble but enough that I occasionally do some wacky OCD stuff (my fav is fixing up the paint sample colors displays in hardware stores - the paint department probably loves me and my OCD because it means less work for them).

The bottom line is that there comes a point when a person is responsible for their own actions, and this goes for anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBadKarma
Microsoft can code a mandatory logoff into the OS. No more problem.

They seem to want to control everything else, why not this too?

Please understand, the "Sarcasm" button was on.
Oh hah hah that is so not true! :: snicker :: Not out to control people! Be nice!

Peter Panic

Peter Panic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

ct

Scars Meadows [SMS]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Swift
And by the way, I have OCD and so I do understand what you are saying. But there really isn't much ANet can do about it. It's my responsibility to adjust to life - not the world's responsibility to adjust to me.
QFT, thats one of the more intelligent things Ive heard on guru in my time.

I understand that OCD and obsessing over games is a serious problem (I have OCD as well...), but when you are aware that you have that kind of problem, you need to do something about it. It bothers me when people sit at their computers(or whatever else they obsess over) for 20+ hours with the excuse "I have insert brand X psychological problem, so its not my fault".

I think Tom Swift summed it up quite nicely. its you're responsibility to adjust, not the worlds.

o m g pizowned

Site Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2006

i kinda wish it would kick me off sometimes during my 6 hour gaming binges. i'm in 'bad' health now because i play too much. although limiting my gameplay is to an extent my own responsibility, i cannot myself limit my playing sometimes.

Joe Fierce

Joe Fierce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Disconnect the fascination

LF High End PvE Guild that's not filled with elitists.

R/

A persons drive to be sucessful in life is a drive deply rooted in the desire for some p**n imo... dont' blame anet, blame internet pr0n... think about it, everything in life is rooted to the reproductive act, everything we ever do is a attempt to further that drive... a good job so i can afford a nice car and house = a chance to win a girl that wants my money since i've got mediocre looks.. a haircut = better looks to win a girl... once you take away the reason for the someone to actually do something in life more than just to keep themselves alive you get a lack of activity and a immense amount of apathy... a lack of reason to try to get a girl (i.e. internet pr0n is easier for some) = more time to sit there and do what they really find entertaining, for many thats online gaming... and guess what else is located close to online gaming, pr0n, and the more games you play instead of exercising or doing something physical = even moreso decreased physical appearance= even harder to get chicks, making pr0n and GW a easier option than real life.

i know i've made all of these statements in a really joking matter, but in all seriousness think about it... i do have a point. it's a vicious cycle folks.

Personette

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Fierce
... a good job so i can afford a nice car and house = a chance to win a girl that wants my money since i've got mediocre looks..
Or a good job, nice car, and house = a dynamic, driven individual with a good head on his shoulders who can value long term benefits over short-term gains = someone a hell of a lot sexier than a listless loser with poor impulse control.

There are a few gold diggers out there, and a lot of women (after a certain age) who are concerned with money because they want to start a family - but it's all really about the most basic, desirable masculine traits: power, virility, and the ability to take care of others.

Abonai Laguna

Abonai Laguna

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

Isle of the Dead [CoC] GH

Company Of Corpses [CoC]

E/

Well, I gotta admit..
This is absurd, do not blame Anet...
But, Anet has imported a warning to stop playing, more like a little push but w/e.
I think they did they're best, and the person should decide for him/herself to play/farm alot and very long.
---
I do admit, I farm alot.. But I draw lines! I take breaks from GW to go outside, and connect with the outer-world, I sometimes farm 4 hours a day, but that is the occasional time where the weather is terrible.
---
Ty

makosi

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by unienaule
People kill people, in this case, by depriving themselves of food and water for hours on end.
I find that difficult to believe, not that I'm disputing it. I've had many a crazy farming expedition in my GW lifetime and never let myself go hungry or thirsty. After a while, that nagging hunger pain would surely overwhelm you, wouldn't it (unless you were deliberately restricitng)?

I've read reports about this sort of 'addiction' and it seems to be that people who appear to be addicted to a game are in fact addicted to the Internet - which is a broadens the problem's horizons. These are often (but not always) people with low self-esteem, angry, frustrated or unfulfilled and they can cover their true self with a facade. It's this anonymous facade that creates the annoying yet humorous decent person + anonymity = total asshole equation.

You can't deny that this is a problem to the affected people but it's not a problem that any legal or corporate bodies can solve so there is no point in pointing the blame-finger at anybody. I believe ANet added the "You have been playing for 5 hours. Please take a break" message so that if you do happen to die or fall extremely ill from crash-farming, they can say in court, "well we told you so". It's a great business decision if you ask me.

Another problem faced by MORPG/Internet 'addicts' is that unlike crack, heroin, tobacco, junk-food and sex addicts, they, or their doctors, will probably not recognise or understand that it's an addiction. In terms of addictions, this type is relatively new and health professionals probably aren't equipped with the knowledge and resources to deal with such a problem.

Rocky Raccoon

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

[QUOTE=Loviatar]
Quote:
........so what is your brilliantly moronic solution?
[/B]
Why do you have to add a line like this which moronic in itself. Do you have problems with a civil discussion? To the OP, we are all our own keepers, to have others protect us from ourselves is just irresponsible.

17eIvIoN

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

The Biggyverse

theres nothing really compullsive in guildwars, i mean we played for 4 hours to get someone a rank 8 hero yesterday apsaloutely grinding but we had breaks of 10mins between runs.

i mean i get bored after a while naturally i mean gw's is good....but not life chaning good

Avai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haijiibirdhead
There is no "learn your limits", because the compulsion becomes near irresistable.
True, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haijiibirdhead
What Anet can do is not set up instances where OCD behaviour is triggered for people to farm 20+ hrs straight. Perhaps some blame might fall at the person, but much of the blame falls at the corporation for setting that scenario up.
You couldn't be more wrong.

I think instead of getting ANet to change anything, this thread should really focus on being a warning message to people who play this game we all love so much. The people behind GW made a great game and if you lack the self control to take a break, you should take the appropriate steps to break your addiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Swift
there really isn't much ANet can do about it. It's my responsibility to adjust to life - not the world's responsibility to adjust to me.
You are absolutely right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antheus
The only solution to this problem is a level 80 female only persuasion spell.
This would definitely stop me from playing a game!


EDIT: Added another quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 17eIvIoN
i get bored after a while naturally i mean gw's is good...but not life chaning good
/signed

Sjeng

Sjeng

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

in my GH

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

W/

I sincerely doubt much people outside the die-hard forum readers even ever heard of this mini polar bear thing. I seriously wonder why Anet hasn't made that public. I never heard of it either, and I regularly visit guru AND incgamers. I heard nothing about it ingame, never ever saw a polar bear mini, and if Anet really created an ultra secret mini polar bear pet that you could only get from some ultra-rare farm drop during the wintersday finale, then I'd say: make it permanent just like you did the Icy Dragon Sword. At the time that thing made it's appearance, people started farming it like mad, thinking it would stop dropping after Wintersday. Then Anet made it a gold item and a permanent drop (it used to be a blue item with fixed stats). It would be incredibly unfair to the players if only the few elite die-hard forum readers and farmers were able to get it, and therefore make a gazillion selling them.

Most of the time I think Anet is doing a hell of a great job with GW. I really do. I love GW.
Sometimes though, I really wonder what the hell they were thinking when things like this pop up... Maybe there is this ONE mischievous guy at Anet who likes to drive the players crazy by slipping in things like this...

Back on topic: The 1-hour notice is enough imo. People should take responsibility for their own actions. Do grown up people really need a nanny to tell them the obvious their whole life? I think that's sad.

Abnaxus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Europe

Keepers of Chaos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjeng
Most of the time I think Anet is doing a hell of a great job with GW. I really do. I love GW.

Sometimes though, I really wonder what the hell they were thinking when things like this pop up... Maybe there is this ONE mischievous guy at Anet who likes to drive the players crazy by slipping in things like this...

Back on topic: The 1-hour notice is enough imo. People should take responsibility for their own actions. Do grown up people really need a nanny to tell them the obvious their whole life? I think that's sad.
I quote the above sentences because I agree about the first 2 but not on the last.

The game as it is now is the result of A.nt effort to satisfy 2 opposite requirements from the playerbase:

- the "casual" players, who are interested in game content, like missions, dungeons, and also like to get the titles achievable playing the game.
A casual player can be also a very skilled player, someone with legendary guardian or vanquisher, his distinctive feature is that he's interested in challenges and improvement in his skills rather than on items or gold.

- the "grinders", those who like to spend 6-8 or more hours per day in game doing the same repetitive actions to increase some "counter", be it amount of gold, ectos, alcohol, everything which can be measured with a number.
They come to forums like this asking for "gold sinks" "uber rare items" "no level cap" and so on, they need goals that can be achieved repeating elementary sequences of actions for endless hours.
When I say "grind", I don't refer to some titles like SS/LB, norn asura and so on. Those fit to "casual" players, are achievable in 20-30 hours max, which are absolutely nothing compared to the time a real grinder is available to spend in game.


A.net changed several things in the game to make it more enjoyable for the "casual" players, namely:

- greens, inscriptions, insignias, that allow every player to get every kind of customizable item simply playing the game;

- loot scaling, which combined with the previous reduced dramatically every price for runes, upgrades and so on.


Well, if you remember, both the previous changes have found a fierce opposition from the "grinders", they saw those features like something that removed some goals for the endless hours they wanted to spend in game.




***********************************************

In my opinion, A.net has never taken drastical actions to get rid of the "grinding" attitude, simply because grinders are customers and they don't want to alienate a part of their customer base.

They left in game several things designed for pure grinders, because they know that there are people who buy their games to grind 8-10 hours per day, without even having to pay for a monthly subscription.
Maybe as the poster I quoted said, there can be some guy in A.net who also likes this kind of game design, who knows ...

***********************************************



The 1-hour alert has been introduced just to avoid possible legal actions against A.net, and it's totally unsufficient in my opinion.

A.net should have taken a more courageous attitude and deployed some significant changes in game design, even at the cost of losing some potential customers, totally removing every possible goal to grinders.

I know this is very hard to accept though ...

IslandHermet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haijiibirdhead
MMO's bring out obcessive-compulsive traits in people. That is a known fact.

Now recently, with the polar bear incident for example, one's heard instances of people farming 10-30 hours straight.

There's a warning in game that tells people to take a break every hour. That warning isn't just for laughs I'd imagine. Prolonged gaming/ computer exposure does have adverse effects on health.

Now a friend of mine thought that farming that long is their own conscious decsion, while it is in a sense , many of those people do it out of obcessive behaviour, and are mentally compelled to keep farming in the hope that the the next time will be it.

- Regardless of the damage that they are doing to themselves.

Farming is good etc , but crash farming certainly is not. Remember when it was reported that people died through over gaming?

Now Anet cant force ppl how to play, but they can certainly help matters.

My message to Anet is simply out of consideration for their players physical well being , is to not have instances where people's inner obcessive compulsive behaviour gets triggered to that extent, and they arehighly motivated to farm for an entire day or more straight , causing anything up to significant damage to their health and maybe even death.

Agree? Disagree?
Well consider this have you ever thought that people just do not give a damn.
And most people do not care about how health they are.

Anet can not take players health into consideration just like you should not you should only care about your own health and the health of your family and friends not some stranger on the internet.

This is called Social Darwinism "only the strong and smart survive"

Darksun

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haijiibirdhead
MMO's bring out obcessive-compulsive traits in people. That is a known fact.
yes, based on Dr Nick's famous psyco-phantom research done in Moldova in 2005. Oh wait....

Shakti

Shakti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

Home...

Vier Reiter [Vier]

Are you referring to true diagnosable OCD or addictive personality? Honestly I think Anet has done all they should do. People are responsible for their own lives and actions. If you're discussing true OCD, their behaviors are up to them to control with the help of professionals, possibly medication family etc. It is up to them and their network to know the limits and accomodate accordingly. If you're referring to addictive personality disorders, those are much more common. However, blaming Anet for someone neglecting themselves and their health is rather like blaming Budweiser for someone's alcoholism or McDonald's for someone's high cholesterol and weight problem. The individual has responsibility for their condition.

We're adults here kids lol, it's time we accept our crap as our own.

Look at it this way...If a diabetic binges a box of Twinkies, can they blame Hostess when they go into a diabetic coma because they shouldn't sell them in such large packages? Say they should only come one to a pack because some of the population can't handle the temptation of a whole box? No. Most of us can limit ourselves. Beyond that, it's up to the diabetic to know their limit, not the company making the sugary treat.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

I have OCD and Gw (the w is uncapitalized to separate Gw, Guild Wars, from GW, Games Workshop; GW is actually copyright of Games Workshop and legally belongs to them; see here for reference http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/copyrights/) has never given me problems.

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
I have OCD and Gw (the w is uncapitalized to separate Gw, Guild Wars, from GW, Games Workshop; GW is actually copyright of Games Workshop and legally belongs to them; see here for reference http://uk.games-workshop.com/legal/copyrights/) has never given me problems.
...You can't own an abbreviation. Besides the previous phrase, there's really nothing more for me to add to this thread as four pages covers it all.

Vinraith

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

It's Anet's responsibility to give people sufficient information to make their own decisions, I believe they've done that. It is not Anet's responsibility to make decisions for people, and I wouldn't want to live in a world where it was.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeek Aran
You can't own an abbreviation.
Then how do they own it? Because they do.