For the purposes of this thread, unless you specify otherwise, a /signed will mean that you like this idea but don't think there is currently enough inflation to warrant it (this is my current position). A /unsigned will mean that you think this is a bad idea even if the inflation was bad. I'd prefer that we don't discuss how bad the inflation is in this thread.
As some of you may know, using an ID kit on most items (including whites) will increase its merchant value, even if the item isn't marked at "unidentified". In high level areas this increase will be more than the cost of using the ID kit (4g on a normal ID kit, 5 gold on a sup ID kit).
So what if the ID kits were changed so that they would only work on items which were marked as unidentified ?
How much gold would that prevent from entering the GW economy ?
How effective would this be at reducing inflation ?
bilateralrope
Shayne Hawke
"some of you" doesn't include me, apparently. I'll have to try that out sometime.
I only use ID kits on "unidentified" items anyway, so this wouldn't affect me.
As far as reducing inflation, I'm somewhat lost on how this really affects the economy on a grand scale. If someone could explain it in a bit more detail, I could give a better opinion on it.
I only use ID kits on "unidentified" items anyway, so this wouldn't affect me.
As far as reducing inflation, I'm somewhat lost on how this really affects the economy on a grand scale. If someone could explain it in a bit more detail, I could give a better opinion on it.
Kanyatta
"some of you" doesn't include me either.
I've never heard of anyone exploiting the ID kits on whites. I doubt that a significant part of the community uses this exploit. I guess, just for those few, a /sign would be in order, but the current scale of the problem seems to be negligible.
Now, the few hours when you could dupe Armbraces.... that has forever ruined the GW economy.
I've never heard of anyone exploiting the ID kits on whites. I doubt that a significant part of the community uses this exploit. I guess, just for those few, a /sign would be in order, but the current scale of the problem seems to be negligible.
Now, the few hours when you could dupe Armbraces.... that has forever ruined the GW economy.
freaky naughty
I do ID my whites and it does help, but if I have an inventory full of whites and I ID them all it's only 100 extra gold nothing big.
Elendor The Elf
Although I have started to ID white weapons recently, I don't think stopping the ability to do that would really help the economy much. I really wish they would fix the economy though.... I remember when the dye prices dropped from like 10k+ for black dye to around 6 or 7k and about 6k for white dye to 3-4k in a week. I was so happy because I was going to buy a bunch of dye and then sell it when the price went back up in a little bit. How wrong I was lol....
HawkofStorms
IDing white items with no mods basically doubles the amount of money you can make in this game. If you aren't doing it... you are robbing yourself of money. It isn't an exploit. Its how the game is designed.
Now... this game is currently VERY deflated. I think it needs some inflation and some rare items again to raise prices. so /signed this would reduce inflation, but the game doesn't need it. Although, I don't think it would be THAT significant. As you can tell from the first couple of responses, many people even 2 years into the game still don't know that IDing whites increase there value significantly. So... it would only cause deflation to the "hardcore" section of the population that reads up on stuff in this game. Obviously, it wouldn't affect the part of the population that had never heard of this in the first place.
Now... this game is currently VERY deflated. I think it needs some inflation and some rare items again to raise prices. so /signed this would reduce inflation, but the game doesn't need it. Although, I don't think it would be THAT significant. As you can tell from the first couple of responses, many people even 2 years into the game still don't know that IDing whites increase there value significantly. So... it would only cause deflation to the "hardcore" section of the population that reads up on stuff in this game. Obviously, it wouldn't affect the part of the population that had never heard of this in the first place.
mazey vorstagg
/signed although atm inflation isn't bad enough and I'm not rich enough.
System_Crush
I knew for a long time that using an ID kit on an identified item allows you too see it's value. I never though it actually changed the value.
I agree with
I agree with
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg
/signed although atm inflation isn't bad enough and I'm not rich enough.
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bilateralrope
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Now... this game is currently VERY deflated. I think it needs some inflation and some rare items again to raise prices. so /signed this would reduce inflation, but the game doesn't need it. Although, I don't think it would be THAT significant. As you can tell from the first couple of responses, many people even 2 years into the game still don't know that IDing whites increase there value significantly.
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Quote:
| So... it would only cause deflation to the "hardcore" section of the population that reads up on stuff in this game. Obviously, it wouldn't affect the part of the population that had never heard of this in the first place. |
manitoba1073
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
In other words this will hit the rich players a lot harder than it hits anyone else. Somehow, this appeals to me.
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Yawgmoth
Inflation? lol...
There's no inflation in GW since loot-scaling, the economy state is exactly opposite - it's most items that are losing value, so the same gold can get you much more.
So what's the point of thinking up a way to reduce something that doesn't exist? Why think about reducing inflation when the real problem is deflation?
Now hypothetically if there was inflation, not allowing identification of whites wouldn't change much, it's much less than 1% of gold entering the economy right now.
It was significantly more back when there was no lootscaling, when lots of people (and bots) used to solo farm for raw cash by doing quick 1-2 minute runs killing ~15 mobs per run and getting 1 drop per 1 mob killed. And most of those drops were whites (raven staffs anyone?). Now nobody does farming like that, because quickly killing 15 mobs will give you 2-4 drops. Also, we can assume that the vast majority of players don't know about the whole id'ing whites, as we know many forum regulars found that to be a new thing after reading one of the many threads about it.
So if all farmers actually id'ed their whites back in the old prophecies/factions days when there actually was inflation and solo farming merch food was the main source of gold in the economy, the effect of this change would be massive, up to even 5%.
But the reality nowadays is far different, farming is different, lootscaling greately reduces amounts of merched whites, hard mode makes more blues and purples drop instead of whites, and solo farming isn't the main source of cash anymore with lots of other sources of gold, and don't forget about majority of players not knowing about the method. So if such a nerf was done today, the effect would be close to zero.
There's no inflation in GW since loot-scaling, the economy state is exactly opposite - it's most items that are losing value, so the same gold can get you much more.
So what's the point of thinking up a way to reduce something that doesn't exist? Why think about reducing inflation when the real problem is deflation?
Now hypothetically if there was inflation, not allowing identification of whites wouldn't change much, it's much less than 1% of gold entering the economy right now.
It was significantly more back when there was no lootscaling, when lots of people (and bots) used to solo farm for raw cash by doing quick 1-2 minute runs killing ~15 mobs per run and getting 1 drop per 1 mob killed. And most of those drops were whites (raven staffs anyone?). Now nobody does farming like that, because quickly killing 15 mobs will give you 2-4 drops. Also, we can assume that the vast majority of players don't know about the whole id'ing whites, as we know many forum regulars found that to be a new thing after reading one of the many threads about it.
So if all farmers actually id'ed their whites back in the old prophecies/factions days when there actually was inflation and solo farming merch food was the main source of gold in the economy, the effect of this change would be massive, up to even 5%.
But the reality nowadays is far different, farming is different, lootscaling greately reduces amounts of merched whites, hard mode makes more blues and purples drop instead of whites, and solo farming isn't the main source of cash anymore with lots of other sources of gold, and don't forget about majority of players not knowing about the method. So if such a nerf was done today, the effect would be close to zero.
~ Dan ~
So it's people ID'ing whites that causes inflation, and not dupers / bots / stupidly rich people!??!??
/notsigned btw
lundis
/notsigned
I don't wanna be mega-poor again.. just not-rich is fine.. I've been able to buy lockpicks and stuff ever since I discovered that you could identify white items.. I enjoy that..
I don't think there's inflation atm anyway.. all those nice gold items and upgrades are worth nearly nothing... I blame the greens though.. ^^
I don't wanna be mega-poor again.. just not-rich is fine.. I've been able to buy lockpicks and stuff ever since I discovered that you could identify white items.. I enjoy that..
I don't think there's inflation atm anyway.. all those nice gold items and upgrades are worth nearly nothing... I blame the greens though.. ^^
Faer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
/unsigned will mean that you think this is a bad idea
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In any event, I don't see how changing the way Identification works will matter. The few extra gold here and there that can be picked up by identifying each and every item can simply be considered a small reward to those who wish to waste their time tripleclicking for collective hours on end.
wood tsunami
iding weps increases their value?! im gonna be rich! however back on subject about the whole inflation matter. ive never heard of someone doing this so i seriously doubt it would be of much consequence to the economy if there was a nerf. i however wanna test out just how much gold i can make doing this. so /notsigned
HawkofStorms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
In other words this will hit the rich players a lot harder than it hits anyone else. Somehow, this appeals to me. |
What I'm saying is, it would only affect the group of the population that reads forums/wikis and play the game regularly enough to know about this... which isn't neccessaryily the rich.
MirkoTeran
What inflation? Can you give a list of item that are gaining price at the moment? The only ones I know of are some high-end minis and some 'nerfed' items. And people who buy/sell them don't get their gold by IDing whites.
lordheinous
People don't know that iding whites increases value? LOL! I discovered that on my second day of playing the game, when i was iding stuff in ascalon. Seriously, all it takes to figure it out is a mistaken id, a bare minimum of observational skills, and the curiosity to test out your theory by comparing the prices the merchant offers pre-id and post-id.
MithranArkanere
You can identify:
- The backpack your are given in any new character.
- Green items.
- White items.
- Upgrades (Both weapon and armor upgrades)
By doing so, you can always get more cash that just selling the stuff.
If you get a 1gold weapon with an upgrade, you can identify it for 4gold, salvage the upgrades for 16..48 gold, identify them for 4..12 gold and sell them for 26..300 gold.
Having to ID whites to get the full amount of the cash only hurts bots and players that do not identify.
IDing whites is not an exploit. It's a wise thing to do.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Identify
I have joined in parties with people that left things around, without having the inventory filled. They only get cash by farming and trading.
But if you do 'the proper way', if you pick all items you can, identify them and sell them, you get 2k/hour by playing normally.
Removing the white idng do not hurt the rich that get money by trading miniatures and rare items, hurts the average player that gets money from all stuff the sell.
- The backpack your are given in any new character.
- Green items.
- White items.
- Upgrades (Both weapon and armor upgrades)
By doing so, you can always get more cash that just selling the stuff.
If you get a 1gold weapon with an upgrade, you can identify it for 4gold, salvage the upgrades for 16..48 gold, identify them for 4..12 gold and sell them for 26..300 gold.
Having to ID whites to get the full amount of the cash only hurts bots and players that do not identify.
IDing whites is not an exploit. It's a wise thing to do.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Identify
I have joined in parties with people that left things around, without having the inventory filled. They only get cash by farming and trading.
But if you do 'the proper way', if you pick all items you can, identify them and sell them, you get 2k/hour by playing normally.
Removing the white idng do not hurt the rich that get money by trading miniatures and rare items, hurts the average player that gets money from all stuff the sell.
MrSlayer
Curiosity...IDing 25 whites...does the profit beat the cost of another ID kit?
Molock
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
So it's people ID'ing whites that causes inflation, and not dupers / bots / stupidly rich people!??!?? /notsigned btw |
/not signed and anyway.. we have no inflation
Shakti
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MrSlayer
Curiosity...IDing 25 whites...does the profit beat the cost of another ID kit?
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edit:
/notsigned btw....this would make no difference either way. Uber Rich players wouldn't be hurt by 100g here or there and bots don't ID whites I don't think. "Inflation" wouldn't be effected.
The Meth
Let me try and sum up my reasons why this shouldn't happen:
1. There is no inflation going on outside of super rare minipets and weapons that don't drop any more. Everything else I think of is going down.
2. If there was inflation, it would not be a bad thing because the vast majority of items you NEED (not WANT) have a set price. Inflation would just hurt people who want vanity items while helping the poor noob on their 1st character who needs their armor.
3. Saying that the gold increase from IDing whites is causing inflation is like saying that the half a penny you owe on your taxes that gets rounded up is what made you go broke.
1. There is no inflation going on outside of super rare minipets and weapons that don't drop any more. Everything else I think of is going down.
2. If there was inflation, it would not be a bad thing because the vast majority of items you NEED (not WANT) have a set price. Inflation would just hurt people who want vanity items while helping the poor noob on their 1st character who needs their armor.
3. Saying that the gold increase from IDing whites is causing inflation is like saying that the half a penny you owe on your taxes that gets rounded up is what made you go broke.
MithranArkanere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MrSlayer
Curiosity...IDing 25 whites...does the profit beat the cost of another ID kit?
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- Average income for 25 IDed whites: 2,000 gold.
Cost of ID... 100 or 125 gold...
(Statistics made with drops from creatures at level 20 in Nightfall, different regions have different prices)
Hm... I think it does.
TGgold
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bilateralrope
Well you could always attempt to publicise it in order to cause inflation
In other words this will hit the rich players a lot harder than it hits anyone else. Somehow, this appeals to me. |
Cherng Butter
Wow you learn something new everyday!
=DNC=Trucker
I have a very hard time believing that this is a source of the inflation.
Numa Pompilius
Just FYI guys, inflation is when the price of commodities RISE (ie the money is worth less than it used to, because there's too much money in the market).
The situation in GW, like in most MMORPGs, is called mudflation. Mudflation is only found in virtual worlds, and it occurs when both commodities and money drop in value. The reason is that there's too many items *and* too much money in the market, and you get a situation where most items are cheap/unsellable (measured in money, because there's a glut in items) but a few rare items are astronomically expensive (because there's a glut in money).
In short, the Guildwars economy.
The situation in GW, like in most MMORPGs, is called mudflation. Mudflation is only found in virtual worlds, and it occurs when both commodities and money drop in value. The reason is that there's too many items *and* too much money in the market, and you get a situation where most items are cheap/unsellable (measured in money, because there's a glut in items) but a few rare items are astronomically expensive (because there's a glut in money).
In short, the Guildwars economy.
Kanyatta
The only things in the game that could be considered "Inflation" are like, Mini Kanaxis, Mini Pandas, and uber rare minis like these, and Crystalline Swords (even those might be on a downswing, I wouldn't really know). Also, Celestial Sigils are on the rise, for who knows why? Did ANet remove a bunch from the economy? Or are there [GANK] member's hoarding them? Because, its not like less people are winning Halls.
As far as I can tell, money is worth more and more, by looking at merchant prices, dye trader prices, and the like.
As far as I can tell, money is worth more and more, by looking at merchant prices, dye trader prices, and the like.
manitoba1073
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Just FYI guys, inflation is when the price of commodities RISE (ie the money is worth less than it used to, because there's too much money in the market).
The situation in GW, like in most MMORPGs, is called mudflation. Mudflation is only found in virtual worlds, and it occurs when both commodities and money drop in value. The reason is that there's too many items *and* too much money in the market, and you get a situation where most items are cheap/unsellable (measured in money, because there's a glut in items) but a few rare items are astronomically expensive (because there's a glut in money). In short, the Guildwars economy. |
Serious people get with it. Those items that you guys are trying to claim as inflated are not its that simple those items are the same as if it was a flea market styled selling. If you dont like the price then dont pay or get it yourself instead of QQ its inflation. The only things that are getting inflationary type of prices are those at the material trader.
Shayne Hawke
I decided to do my own research, because I still couldn't believe that I'd passed up such a moneymaking opportunity.
I went on a CoF run to get some cash. After I finished, I sold off all my stuff and deposited everything, but I left the whites untouched. Here's what I found:
14 White, Unidentified = 716 Gold.
14 White, Identified = 964 Gold.
Difference = 248. Subtract ID kit uses cost: 248 - 4(14) = 192.
With that data, it doesn't seem that the profit of identifying v. not identifying is very great on a small scale. I can see how this adds up, and I might just do a few more runs and grab some more data to see firsthand how much of a bonus this can give.
I went on a CoF run to get some cash. After I finished, I sold off all my stuff and deposited everything, but I left the whites untouched. Here's what I found:
14 White, Unidentified = 716 Gold.
14 White, Identified = 964 Gold.
Difference = 248. Subtract ID kit uses cost: 248 - 4(14) = 192.
With that data, it doesn't seem that the profit of identifying v. not identifying is very great on a small scale. I can see how this adds up, and I might just do a few more runs and grab some more data to see firsthand how much of a bonus this can give.