Any suggestions for these builds?

KalleDamos

KalleDamos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Hey there, I've been tinkering with Necromancers for over two years now. Lately, with some new skills released, I've been tinkering with some new necromancer builds. I'll try and post them below and I would like some honest feed back on them.

Toxic Miasma (PvE/PvP)
6 - Curses
10 - Soul Reaping
12 - Death Magic
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Toxic Chill[/skill][skill]Vile Miasma[/skill][skill]Deathly Chill[/skill][skill]Putrid Explosion[/skill][skill]Consume Corpse[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Scales of Grenth(PvE)
12 - Death Magic
12 - Soul Reaping
[skill]Bitter Chill[/skill][skill]Rotting Flesh[/skill][skill]Vile Miasma[/skill][skill]Well of Suffering[/skill][skill]Taste of Pain[/skill][skill]Grenth's Balance[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Feast of Suffering(PvE)
12 - Curses
12 - Soul Reaping
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Feast of Corruption[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Grenth's Reaper(PvE/PvP)
12 - Curses
12 - Soul Reaping
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Well of Weariness[/skill][skill]Reaper's Mark[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

The res signets can be swapped out for other ressurections or for other skills. But its the other skills that really make the build. Looking forward to some fead back.

System_Crush

System_Crush

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2006

Tripping in Holland

My guild died :`(

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalleDamos
Toxic Miasma (PvE/PvP)
6 - Curses
10 - Soul Reaping
12 - Death Magic
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Toxic Chill[/skill][skill]Vile Miasma[/skill][skill]Deathly Chill[/skill][skill]Putrid Explosion[/skill][skill]Consume Corpse[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Well I'd first suggest to use all your attribute points, even without runes you can get:
12/11/6 or 12/10/8

The build has excess energy management, the only skill that use more energy than it has recharge time is [skill=text]Putrid Explosion[/skill] the energy expense of this build can probably be covered by just [skill=text]Consume Corpse[/skill] along with the base SR.
I don't like SoLS with less than 13 SR because I suck at using it, if you are better at micromanaging foes their health, by all means use it.
Not warping into the middle of a group of assassins is a pretty decent start towards survivor.

Also there are no 'lately' released skills in here(GWEN) what about using a death magic based cover hex? [wiki]Putrid Bile[/wiki]

Quote: Originally Posted by KalleDamos Scales of Grenth(PvE)
12 - Death Magic
12 - Soul Reaping
[skill]Bitter Chill[/skill][skill]Rotting Flesh[/skill][skill]Vile Miasma[/skill][skill]Well of Suffering[/skill][skill]Taste of Pain[/skill][skill]Grenth's Balance[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] I's not that you haven't ascended/seen the light/Risen to the rank of First Spear the attributes on this1 are perfectly normal.

This one causes more degen and spreads it around better too, while at high health.
While at low health it can deal direct damage and recover quickly.
As long as you don't waste too much energy on spamming 1 thing or the the other I guess it is alright.

Quote: Originally Posted by KalleDamos Feast of Suffering(PvE)
12 - Curses
12 - Soul Reaping
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Feast of Corruption[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] Feast of Corruption is slow, really slow, because of that it is a bad elite, when using it skills from the secondary profession should be used to speed it up, such as [skill=text]Arcane Echo[/skill] or [skill=text]Serpent's Quickness[/skill] although SQ needs attribute points making it a bad choice IM(I)O.

Also this build has [skill=text]Suffering[/skill] as a AoE hex but it also has [skill=text]Faintheartedness[/skill]... why? Use [skill=text]Shadow of Fear[/skill]/[skill=text]Meekness[/skill] to pretty much cover both in 1 skill, or if you want degen, go with [skill=text]Ulcerous Lungs[/skill] and a hero/teammate that inflicts bleeding.

This one has less degen than the others, deals less damage because it's direct damage recharges are slow, it's pretty bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalleDamos
Grenth's Reaper(PvE/PvP)
12 - Curses
12 - Soul Reaping
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill][skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Well of Weariness[/skill][skill]Reaper's Mark[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] Now the whole point of [skill=text]Reaper's Mark[/skill] is to kill the foe before using up the 12 + (13-5)= 20 energy you get from it's death. Using [skill=text]Faintheartedness[/skill] and [skill=text]Insidious Parasite[/skill] together is not a good way to do that, the main use of the mark is to use it in a build with a quickenergyheavysingletargetbloodspike.
Not with [skill=text]Well of Weariness[/skill], what is that supposed to do anyway? all PvE mobs have like 50 energy and in PvP people will just not step in it because unlike mobs (some of the ) people have brains.

=============================================
All in all, the builds get a failing grade.
The Dead Weight(Scales of Grenth) build might have use somewhere, I'd mess with it a little, it should be useful in places foes get tunneled like "In defense of the eye" in which case bringing [skill=text]Putrid Explosion[/skill] is a good idea.

You are trying to play the necro as an elementalist or illusion mesmer or something, Your builds have a clear split between spike skills and defense skills, for a good blood spike your healing is at least 50% of your damage.

For a curser the key word is crowd control, using fire and forget skills they go:Select a foe... Cast hex 1... Cast hex 2... Cast cover hex... Select the next foe... Repeat Doing it right will make the foes die all by themselves, degen only helps foes with this, you need to use hexes that deal additional damage when X. because 10 degen will not be enough damage to kill lvl 20+ foes in a acceptable amount of time
Aside from the obvious, that includes [skill=text]Soul Barbs[/skill], [skill=text]Mark of Pain[/skill] and [skill=text]Price of Failure[/skill] and plenty others, not only SS.
Also cursers have some of the faster more spiky AoE, it is what takes care of the foes that survive the fire and forget chain; though it is still not viable to make a necro build with only direct damage ranged AoE.(point blank works well though, or used too; haven't seen any1 using it for quite a while)

A death spike(no MM build so I guess you don't want to, better to check the sticky if you need a MM anyways) has pretty much devolved into the new ranged AoE necro, using [skill=text]Rising Bile[/skill] [wiki]Putrid Bile[/wiki] and [skill=text]Putrid Explosion[/skill] they deal area damage quickly when a foe dies, in PvE where mobs are grouped together well that is pretty useful.
Because all those skills are single shot they will not scatter foes like [skill=text]Mark of Pain[/skill] does, so other AoE effects work well with them too.
The basic elite for a Death magic spike uses [skill=text]Icy Veins[/skill] for a elite, [skill=text]Discord[/skill] is nice too if you can't use [wiki]Necrosis[/wiki] as you are precasting hexes before starting a spike anyway, the time needed to fulfill Discord's requirements won't be that bad.

I hope I said something even remotely useful.

Brian the Gladiator

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

E/

/agree

They are all pretty bad IMO. I would rather bring Tainted then any of those death magic necros and that is definitely saying something.
Why are you trying to use really bad necro elites. It's not like Necros don't have good elites or something. What is so wrong with Spiteful Spirit, Spoil Victor, jagged Bones, or Order of Undeath

KalleDamos

KalleDamos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Nothing wrong with them at all. I'm just trying to use elites that are a lil more out there. You know the ones you don't see everyday. I love SS, and being a MM, but I love to tinker and try and get a build that effectivly uses some of those 'n00b' elites. I'm just trying to be unique.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

If the choice is between SS or FoC, FoC loses, but FoC inst bad in a second curse necro. Mobs just melt with an SS+FoC, and u get loads of utilitie

Brian the Gladiator

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

E/

You see, I disagree with you Improvavel. I don't think FoC is good at any point in time ever.

Necromancers are either Spoil Victor, Spiteful Spirit, Minion Master, or /Mo or /Rt Healers. That's it!
It's not that I'm being closed minded or noobish. It is the simple fact that everything else a necro is good for isn't effective in PvE IMO.

Necros are great at throwing degen on multiple foes. That is fact. But degen is incredibly weak in PvE so it is relatively unused. Necros are also good at spiking with unprotable life stealing damage. That, also, is very ineffective in PvE because it takes a team of 8 necros to pull it off and without all 8 the damage is simply mediocre at best.

There ya have it.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

FoC isnt the top curse elite for 2 reasons: slow recharge and SS is just better.

On the other hand Necros have the advantadge of having very good energy in PvE.

Would I take FoC over SS? No way.

Would I take a 2nd curse Necro over a 2nd SS or as one of the 2 nukers in the party? Yes.

In my quest for vanquishing and Legendary Guardian, I liked the way a FoC necro played is role as a nuker, while providing decent support, either by bringing some restoration, wards or whatever.

80 armor ignoring damage at 15 curses with the potential for 120 to all adjacent for 15 energy isnt as weak as you may think.

boogerboy72

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Scar]

N/Me

i like foc, if it recharged faster and didnt require a setup to get the full damage effect,

zling

zling

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogerboy72
i like foc, if it recharged faster and didnt require a setup to get the full damage effect, your problem will be solved with a friendly rit bringing [skill]weapon of quickening[/skill]
bringing [skill]arcane echo[/skill] is also a good idea
bringing the 2 together will make you a [skill]feast of corruption[/skill] war machine.
it also leaves enough room for your favourite N/Me skills to fit in whichever area you're in.
N/Me especially with Curses is 1 of the most flexible professions available...
use this flexibility to your advantage...

KalleDamos

KalleDamos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
You see, I disagree with you Improvavel. I don't think FoC is good at any point in time ever.

Necromancers are either Spoil Victor, Spiteful Spirit, Minion Master, or /Mo or /Rt Healers. That's it!
It's not that I'm being closed minded or noobish. It is the simple fact that everything else a necro is good for isn't effective in PvE IMO.

Necros are great at throwing degen on multiple foes. That is fact. But degen is incredibly weak in PvE so it is relatively unused. Necros are also good at spiking with unprotable life stealing damage. That, also, is very ineffective in PvE because it takes a team of 8 necros to pull it off and without all 8 the damage is simply mediocre at best.

There ya have it. Sorry to say, but you are close minded. There are plenty of builds necros can run out there. Just because they don't suite your needs, or they don't work as effecitly for you does not mean it is not viable. I really despise cookie cutter builds. When 50% of a profession all use the same build, it really makes me sick to see such a lack of unoriginality. I would rather make and use a build that is ineffective, but I can tweek till it work, than use a build that everyone else uses and just become another face in the masses.

Olim Chill

Olim Chill

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

USA

DMI

N/

Quote:
Necros are great at throwing degen on multiple foes. That is fact. But degen is incredibly weak in PvE so it is relatively unused I find degen works best when taking out a stobborn single foe (e.g., boss) or going for a quick first kill. Skills like Putrid Bile are great for those situations and certainly not weak.

Brian the Gladiator

Brian the Gladiator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Michigan, USA

Us Are Not [leet]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalleDamos
Sorry to say, but you are close minded. There are plenty of builds necros can run out there. Just because they don't suite your needs, or they don't work as effecitly for you does not mean it is not viable. I really despise cookie cutter builds. When 50% of a profession all use the same build, it really makes me sick to see such a lack of unoriginality. I would rather make and use a build that is ineffective, but I can tweek till it work, than use a build that everyone else uses and just become another face in the masses.
You are a fool. You go be original while i kill stuff. Peace out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olim lll
I find degen works best when taking out a stobborn single foe (e.g., boss) or going for a quick first kill. Skills like Putrid Bile are great for those situations and certainly not weak. What are you saying??? Degen is good on foes with extremely high maximum health??? Wow, that's news to me?
The purpose of degen is pressure. Degen allows for a constant stream of damage which will greatly increase the probability to pressure out enemy teams. The only way this works is if the pressure degen is sustained for long periods of time. In PvE, this does not happen, thus degen is bad. Don't argue it until you learn, know, and understand game mechanics.

Olim Chill

Olim Chill

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

USA

DMI

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
What are you saying??? Degen is good on foes with extremely high maximum health??? Wow, that's news to me?
The purpose of degen is pressure. Degen allows for a constant stream of damage which will greatly increase the probability to pressure out enemy teams. The only way this works is if the pressure degen is sustained for long periods of time. In PvE, this does not happen, thus degen is bad. Don't argue it until you learn, know, and understand game mechanics. That's very entertaining - you're a superstar. I'm talking about using a degen skill as a base attack to help drain and drop a foe quickly while you smash it with other skills. If you think that's dumb...well, you're allowed .

KalleDamos

KalleDamos

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Well I've been working on a new build, I would like some opinion on it.

12 - Soul Reaping
12 - Curses

[skill]Soul Barbs[/skill][skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Well of Darkness[/skill][skill]Signet of Suffering[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection signet[/skill]

As with all my builds, Res sig can be swapped out for any resurrection skill according to preferance.

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalleDamos
Well I've been working on a new build, I would like some opinion on it.

[skill]Soul Barbs[/skill][skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Well of Darkness[/skill][skill]Signet of Suffering[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection signet[/skill] [wiki]Mantra of Inscriptions[/wiki] for quicker recharge of Signet of Suffering is necessary in my opinion. I never did much like that 2 second recharge.

Moloch Vein

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator
You are a fool. You go be original while i kill stuff. Peace out!

What are you saying??? Degen is good on foes with extremely high maximum health??? Wow, that's news to me?
The purpose of degen is pressure. Degen allows for a constant stream of damage which will greatly increase the probability to pressure out enemy teams. The only way this works is if the pressure degen is sustained for long periods of time. In PvE, this does not happen, thus degen is bad. Don't argue it until you learn, know, and understand game mechanics. While Brian is very rude, he certainly is right.

System_Crush

System_Crush

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2006

Tripping in Holland

My guild died :`(

N/

Presure isn't a mechanic it is a tactic.
That said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KalleDamos
12 - Soul Reaping
12 - Curses
Your stats are:
Cruses 12+1+1
Soul reaping 12+1
Even though I can tell that because 4 hexes wouldn't max out SoS with 12 curses, it's still a good idea to mention this.

Quote: Originally Posted by KalleDamos
[skill]Soul Barbs[/skill][skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Well of Darkness[/skill][skill]Signet of Suffering[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection signet[/skill] You know, you should try being original with secondary profession skills too, your elite doesn't have to be a necro elite you know, mixing and matching leads to soo much greater originality.

[skill=text]Soul Barbs[/skill] and [skill=text]Parasitic Bond[/skill] are a basic set, for proph curses of level 16 or less, its good curses damage compared to the other skills you have available to you, but by energy cost to effect, it's worse than bad once you get to nolani academy.
However add [skill=text]Recurring Insecurity[/skill] and the damage output is doubled, interesting, though it's still not devastating.

Plague signet is like Feast of Corruption a 20 sec recharge spike, elementalists have 20 sec recharge spikes, that are only good because they are AoEDoT that deal like 33*10 damage, obviously a lot more than [skill=text]Signet of Suffering[/skill]'s 140 to a single target only.

So if we want [skill=text]Signet of Suffering[/skill] then we will need to improve it, for signet's this is easily done with [skill=text]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill] is used by smiting monks every where, get yours now and you get energy gain improvement, free of charge.
Signets are harder to interrupt than 2 sec cast spell, that is a good reason to run SoS over a blood spike.

Your build will require 4 hexes and the mantra to make SoS deal the best damage, this means 3 things.
    5 of 8 skills in your bar are there to make sure 1 skill functions, making the interruption of 1 of those 5 bad, and the interruption or even worse locking of that 1 skill disastrous. You will have to take the time to cast 4 hexes before you can start dealing damage. You will have to keep busy during the 11 secs of recharge. All are problems, but you are only refreshing removed hexes during the recharge, this is not energy intensive, so:
    You can use energy intensive effects like [skill=text]Spinal Shivers[/skill] without a drawback as SoS does not require energy and you have 11 secs to just wand away trying to interrupt skills.

    Also you will cast 4 hexes before you can start getting to work, to be useful in a team, those 4 hexes shouldn't take so long that the foe is already dead when you finish.
    You chose 3, 1 sec cast hexes 1 of which AoE(meaning there's no need to recast it when moving to the next foe, saving time) from curses its about the best you will get, the needed secondary doesn't offer great option on it either, [skill=text]Defile Flesh[/skill] is worth considering however, as when spiking you don't want your target healed of course.

    =================================

    All in all if you want to be original, you will have to mix and match with secondaries, necro only is nice but only 1 of 10 classes, so not taking a secondary is like not using 90% of the possibilities, that is pretty much 90% chance you won't find that skill you need to create the optimal use of a unfavored elite.

    Also, get the guildwars freaks tool, it will help you put skills together, from different professions and title tracks(though the PvE skill display definitely needs an update) I think it beats the usability of all them online build makers.

    I'm actually amazed that now the source is open, no1 has copy pasted the attribute selection and modified yet.
    Or is it that 2nd hand submissions aren't making it to the source forge versions...
    Maybe I should quit being lazy and just get it's source and do it myself, could fix some of the broken skill values while I'm at it.

Xylia

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Pond [pond]

N/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by KalleDamos
Well I've been working on a new build, I would like some opinion on it.

12 - Soul Reaping
12 - Curses

[skill]Soul Barbs[/skill][skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Well of Darkness[/skill][skill]Signet of Suffering[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Resurrection signet[/skill]

As with all my builds, Res sig can be swapped out for any resurrection skill according to preferance. I might put some more AoE hexes in here, to make it more versatile. 15 is the break point for signet of suffering to do 140 damage, so you don't need 16 curses.
Curses: 11+3+1
Soul Reaping: 10+1
Inspiration Magic: 10
([skill]Ulcerous Lungs[/skill] or [skill]Soul Barbs[/skill])[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Shadow of Fear[/skill][skill]Signet of Suffering[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill]([skill]Ether Signet[/skill] or [skill]Hex Eater Signet[/skill] or [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] or Res skill)