Gold Sellers, Bot Farming and Others

With the re-occurance of the bot mobs in certain outposts and cities, people spamming gold offers in The Great Temple of Balthazar and all the other things associated with this trend it becomes obvious that alot of players want something to be done about this.

My question to you all is:

If you were given the power to make changes to the game, what would you do to stop in game gold selling, bot farming and other forms of "cheating"?

Please post something other than "I wud ban all of dem!".

Try to offer a way to detect, defeat or just make it not worthwhile for this activity to continue.

I had suggested that ANet sell gold in the online store and ruin the gold farmers market, but someone pointed out that farmers would merely sell for less and offer a deal.

This is very difficult to address, since it depends to a great degree on the matureness of the players. If there isn't a market of gold buyers, you will go bankrupt as a seller.

Good solution to gold sellers (Comes from Runescape), remove inmbalanced trades...
=> Anet "prices" every item in the game with a certain marge. If the marge gets crossed during a certain trade, it gets noted as suspicious, so that Anet can start banning gold buyers/sellers...

Botters: Have a anti-botting code. No offence, but GW has, or close to, the worse anti-bot code in MMORPG history... None...

Look at it like this: People can get away with sitting afk for 1000+ minutes for the drunkard title, clicking the same stack every 1 minute (Most bots don't even randomize the 1 minute, as in +1/-1 seconds etc), without even a small warning. Sure, this is a innocent example, but you catch the idea

Btw, remove botters = even more chaotic market... Botters probably bring in the most ammount of gold in the game o.0

I would just ignore them because unlike the majority of MMO's even if everyone but me in the game buys 100 million gold it has no effect at all on my game. If idiots want to waste their money I won't stop them.

In my honest opinion, there is no way to remove gold farmers and bots from the GW universe. They are here to stay just like any other mainstream game.

Also, the economy is based around vanity - good looking items with good stats are expensive. If you want to get rid of gold selling you either remove pretty armour and weapons or you make said items easier to obtain by making them cheaper to purchase.

make it easier to get gold and sought after items.

Too late to do anything in Guild Wars 1 except destroy the entire economy.



The only way to effectively combat botting is to make farming redundant.

Right now, farming has been made more difficult, which ironically only benefits bots who never tire.



The shotgun approach is to eliminate currency altogether (and develop a barter based economy).

A more subtle approach is by making it so that a full team of players going through different areas killing different mobs get A LOT more drops than a single player farming the same mob in the same area over and over again. The reverse of loot scaling, if you will.



Hypothetically speaking:

If you go out to farm alone, 1 drop in 100 is a rare or a rare crafting material. In a group of 8 people, even if the droprate of rares goes up to 8 drops in 100, you still only have the same percentage of chance of getting a good drop.

Now, if this chance went up drastically for every extra player in the party (say, 16 drops in 100 for a 4 player party and 32 drops in 100 for an 8 player party) and for the fact that you are killing different types of mobs in different areas, there would be no need for fighting bots, as people would make more money from simply questing.



The problem, of course, is that bots would also team up and would very likely find ways to farm different types of mobs in different areas.



So, no, there is no be-all end-all solution except for completely destroying the economy.

Something like a script detecion program that runs within guild wars, that prohibits any scripts or macro key usuage, kind of like the VAC system from Valve that detects modified dll's and .exe files running in memory, that bans the person for cheating.

But how could anet possibly implement this?

I'd deal with game breaking stuff first rather then some trivial crap I care nothing off.

I dont think Bots are as big of a problem as they are made out to be, or if nothing else it's a problem that does not have a real solution...if bots didnt exist people would just do the grinding themselves, and the "Gold Sellers" in that case would just charge more for their wares. Unfortunatly, Anet has made some anti-bot/gold seller protocols that have had the opposite effect....making it hard for new or casual players to get treasure and upping the temptation for those players to use a gold trader to get what they want.

If any kind of fix is needed for GW, some tweeking of the economy could curb gold sellers some....mostly changes that give new or casual players a little more gold from grinding, while at the same time taking a little of the expense out of certain things elite armor crafting materials, black and white dyes, and lockpicks/keys.

The recent botting epidemic is the mildest of flus compared to the bulbonic plague of botting in the early days of GW. There were times when there were 3-4 districts in places like Augury Rock filled with nothing but hundreds of identical-looking, randomly-named, invincimonks, conga-lining their way from the merchant to the exit. There were so many bots that they caused server-wide lag, and it took the better part of a year for ANet to get on top of the situation.

This recent epidemic was a few hundred bots in Shing Jea in the international district, and a few hundred more sprinkled in the other outposts, and a large proportion of them were banned within days of being brought to the attention of ANet.

So, I guess my recommendation would be to /report the botters you see, and let ANet sort them out.
It might be a good idea for ANet to periodically send people out to manually check out outposts, in case the bots are using scripts with some randomization of movement (as the Shing Jea bots were), but on the other hand, we the players are already out there, and just need to report the bots we see.

That said, a big reason there at all was a resurgence in botting was that ANet gives out free trial keys. Personally I think free trial keys is a good thing, and wouldn't want them removed - I'd rather have a mild amount of bots.

Well I must say that I don't think Guild Wars has a major problem with bots and gold sellers compared to other similar games, so I'm not sure any widespread changes are needed. My suggestions below would be for any game with a widespread RMT or Bot problem and not necessarily something I think Arenanet should or needs to do. It would depend on their budget.


First, attempt to take away their market. Yes, it's against the EULA to bot and buy/sell gold, but nobody reads the EULA. I think the majority of their customers are little kids who don't have the patience to learn to play. They want all the super elite items so they can impress their buddies and they WANT IT NOW!!!!

Add a big notice to the login screen notifying players that you will have your account banned if you use bots or buy gold. (Arenanet has done this)

I'd also add pop-up tips similiar to the current blue pop-ups that say the same thing about botting and RMT sales. Each character would see the pop-up once.

Second, If money permitted I'd hire 1 full time employee and put him in charge of stopping RMT and bots ingame. This employee would have a budget to buy and research the "hacks" and bots being sold for Guild Wars and the technical expertise to analyze what exactly the bots do. He could then query the database to look for player characters matching the bot actions.

When bots are spotted, most would be banned but I'd also watch a few bots for a day or 2 and follow them. Let's see where their gold goes. Do they all trade with a "master account"? Does that "master account" consistently trade the gold with other accounts. It's not enough to ban the bots. Ban the ringleaders behind the bots. This was done with the duping scandal. The players trading with the dupers were banned as well.

Third, (and I don't think this is possible in GW, but perhaps in GW2) I would not allow trial/demo accounts to mix with full accounts at all. I would set up a separate server for trial accounts similiar to how China is walled off today. Perhaps it could be something as simple as separate districts with no access to the International districts.

Forth, I'd add volunteer GMs. I outlined a workable plan for this several months ago but unfortunately I can't find the thread anymore. Arenanet would need to advertise for volunteer GM's. Anyone interested would need to fill out a long detailed application that included personal data as well as a few essay questions. No one under 18 can be a GM.

Arenanet would then select the ones that qualify and make them junior GMs with limited powers. After an appropiate probation period they would either lose their junior GM title or become a full GM. Any GM found to be abusing their position would lose their powers immediately and depending on the seriousness of the abuse possibly their game account.

GM's would not be able to directly ban accounts, but they could issue trade bans and chat bans and would have software on their computers that enabled them to more easily send chat logs and screenshots directly to support.

err, i have few accounts, what will happen if i have a guildy help me transfer gold from account to account?

What I would do is post a person with banning capabilities in the temple of balthazaar. Or "buy" gold from the people who sell it and then ban them who hold the gold.

i wouldnt do a thing.. IMO they are apart of any MMO community.

I didn't say it was the "ideal" solution, but it's prolly the most effective one...

I would suggest a sting operation, run a filter on the game logs looking for lopsided trades, one where one player trades another large amounts of gold for nothing. Then then in an in game situation contact that player acting as a regular player, saying that they heard from a guild mate that they had gotten in game gold for cheap from them. They then set up an actual purchase of a small amount of gold, and once they are assured that they were being traded in game gold for real money, that player account/ email address gets the ban hammer. THEN they look through the logs and find the accounts of anyone that had a lopsided trade with that account, and either issue a warning or remove that item/gold from the players account or BAM! ban hammer. Players may appeal if they want but if the log says a known gold seller gave you a crapton of gold for free oh well.
Same idea different approach. Anet gets hipped to a website selling in game gold, set up a trans action, then same thing, ban that account and any player with a lopsided trade with that account.

Now they will not make any friends by doing this but word will spread. I don't know what information about each account they do get but they could even go as far as perma ban the mac address of the computer that made the connection. so no more buying a new version of the game and reinstalling it. "Im sorry your machine has been banned from using our servers for previous and serious violation of our EULA"

I wouldn't, i figure that a lot of the gold sellers really need the real life money and that this is their way of living, since they are supposed to be on 24/7. Plus this allows casual gamers to achieve the same items. Whether its in term of vanity, quality, quantity...etc. But i have also heard of the excessive things going on in the gold selling industry, some people make over 100,000 a year!

Bots = more accounts bought from Arena Net
More accounts bought = more money for Arena Net

Easy access to gold and in game items = more players
More players = more accounts bought
More accounts bought = more money for Arena Net

Why would they want to change this?

=O ! Harsher on leeching/leaving during Wintersday, fix the layering glitches from day one until GWEN's, find ways to make dead places more lively, fix HM.

I don't see why anyone would want to buy gold. You can buy a LOT with only 100k which is really easy to get. A person who is too new/naive to get the money theirselves aren't greedy/determined enough to get the uber rare things like polar bears and pandas. 95% of weapons are under 10k at req 9.

Guild Wars is the kindergarten of the RMT/bot industry. GW's bot/RMT issues is NOTHING compared to many, many other MMOs. Be happy that this is so and that ANet has done a good job keeping botting and RMT at bay.

It's prolly been mentioned before but to try and defeat them or make it harder at lest.
Remove the Click able Signs still have the name show up as to what the sign is for new players
Also have the NPC's actually move around say 5 or 10 feet?
Not right at the gate like the one in Shing Je is.
Just an idea anyway.

What I don't understand is how the GW staff is able to track/defeat the EULA violations that are already going on. I've heard of bots, bot masters, gold sellers and gold buyers being banned, but I can't understand how ANet is able to track any of them down, and if they are able to track one down, why not all?

For instance, if Person A pruchases gold and receives from Person B and ANet is able to track it and ban them, then how can they track someone who is say...trading 100k for a mini-mallyx and then differentiate that it is a legit trade as opposed to a illegitimate trade? It makes no sense.

Yeah fine gotta make a living but you are doing it by breaking the EULA. Noone should make a living breaking the rules.

Well person A is trading 100k to person b person B is trading mini mallx to person A. Where as in most gold buying transactions person A gives person b 100k and person b trades nothing.

Exactly MONEY = POWER

You couldn't just go off those trades though just because person b trades nothing. Myself and others have given/recieved lots of money from guildies or friends without trading anything for free. Does that mean all the generous players will get banned for no reason too?

A friend of mine who has given up on PvE recently gave 10 guildies 100k each. People like him would get banned if that method was implimented.

Indeed which is why that should only throw up a red flag, if it is an accoutn that has normal pvp and pve time and doesnt recieve large "deposits" of gold form other accounts, then its fine. If its and accoutn that over and over gets and gives away large amounts of gold but dones't really do any pve or pvp time, thats the case for deeper investigation. even the "sting operation" i suggested.

But you have to realize that, if there is a will, there is a way.
The bot farmers will always find a way to overcome the road blocks that programmers set for them. As the profit is huge and you are earning cash while afk, how sweet is that?

Like absolutcrobi said, we can give these bot users great trouble to continue what they're doing. But too purge GW of all bots? Impossible

well ive had mixed feelings at times about the changes to the game that have been made to deal with the gold farmers and sellers. ive felt some of the early changes have driven the casual gamer to consider or even actually buy gold. there was a time when if you wanted something and didnt have the money some extra farming time and you had the money usually pretty fast, or much faster then it takes now. theres alot of things that can be done but no one thing alone would make much difference. the economy is pretty much hosed anyways.

If they ban bots in moderation, botting will still be profitable, and they will buy even more accounts.

I would have a problem with bots and gold farmers if they in some way affected me (via the in-game economy and/or lag). However, ANET has already destroyed the economy more than bots ever will, I encounter very select few of them, and prices now are through the floor rather than through the ceiling. My vote would be to have ANET focus on more important things that actually affect me.