Okay, after playing a Nightfall character through the Sunspear Sanctuary Command Post missions, and knowing that Hunted! is the Nightfall equivalent of Ascension, I'm left wondering something.
Why is "ascension" in Nightfall so much exponentially easier than Ascension in Prophecies?
Prophecies = three of the most difficult missions in the entire campaign (I've done all except Ascension and the Ring of Fire) that can be nearly impossible without relying on other players.
Nightfall = three relatively easy quests that can be completed in less than an hour with three semi-decent heroes and four henchies...if you're lazy.
Any ideas?
Ascension vs. Hunted!
Absolute Destiny
RedStar
Well, as time goes by, the games get easier :
Prophecies = not that easy (when it was the only game)
Factions = fast level and a little hard sometimes
Nightfall = fast level, easy ascension and almost every missions are easy with a "normal" team.
Prophecies = not that easy (when it was the only game)
Factions = fast level and a little hard sometimes
Nightfall = fast level, easy ascension and almost every missions are easy with a "normal" team.
Zeek Aran
I remember failing Nahpui with PUGs. The desert too. Never did Hunted with a PUG, but yeah, it is REALLY easy. Maybe it's just because I had played for more than a year when NF came out. o.O Maybe it's because ANET dumbs things down as they go.
Zahr Dalsk
Because Hunted is earlier on in Nightfall and Ascension is past the second half of Prophecies maybe.
The Reprimander
Well, Ascension in Prophecies is such a big part of the campaign. There are what, three missions? you have to do to ascend. Also, as part of the storyline, you have to ascend to beat the big baddies in the end. In NF, the main goal at that point is to rally the sundered sunspears. But that's just my take on it. (Have to agree, though, you don't really notice you've ascended in NF until you realize "Hey, I can be a D/A now! Neato!" and it's kind of easy)
Saelis Scarfang
Maybe cause in Factions and Nightfall you have to pay for skills and to change your secondary, unlike Ascension in Proph where it's free?
-shrugs- I dunno, maybe.
-shrugs- I dunno, maybe.
Zahr Dalsk
I'll say this: personally, Ascension was a piece of cake.
Nahpui Quarter, on the other hand... a bit harder.
Nahpui Quarter, on the other hand... a bit harder.
shmek
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
Okay, after playing a Nightfall character through the Sunspear Sanctuary Command Post missions, and knowing that Hunted! is the Nightfall equivalent of Ascension, I'm left wondering something.
Why is "ascension" in Nightfall so much exponentially easier than Ascension in Prophecies? Prophecies = three of the most difficult missions in the entire campaign (I've done all except Ascension and the Ring of Fire) that can be nearly impossible without relying on other players. Nightfall = three relatively easy quests that can be completed in less than an hour with three semi-decent heroes and four henchies...if you're lazy. Any ideas? |
LOTS of crying ensues when things aren't spoonfed.
Thus, everything is toned down and spelled out and the rest is a matter of spending a bit of time to fulfill the tasks. Next.... "I'm bored." (Buy new game/expansion). It's indicative of a generation raised on nintendo and television with little appreciation or moral fiber.
Another example is all the crying there was about "runners" in Prophesies and the response is we had locked doors at every city to quiet them. Then the opposite was true that locked doors were a pain and you couldn't explore and we have a bit of both.
Another example: WAAAAAAAHHHH, I couldn't get all 4 hats in the event. ANET response with... super, lets just design less and keep the kiddies happy and screw the hardworkers or vets by giving 2 hats. Even more so... for the whiners that couldn't make it.... "heck, just give them the hat if they log on up to 8 days after the event." (I suppose there will still be crying from people that still didn't get a hat because they didn't make the effort or are unwilling to accept responsibility for their situation......it's a friggin plague. There used to be a day when if someone fell in a hole, people would laugh at the moron since they had eyes enough to keep from that. Now there is a lamer layer on every corner trying to take from others what really everyone knows isn't deserved 98% of the time, but they get away with it so it's taken advantage of..........*sigh)
Master Knightfall
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
Okay, after playing a Nightfall character through the Sunspear Sanctuary Command Post missions, and knowing that Hunted! is the Nightfall equivalent of Ascension, I'm left wondering something.
Why is "ascension" in Nightfall so much exponentially easier than Ascension in Prophecies? Prophecies = three of the most difficult missions in the entire campaign (I've done all except Ascension and the Ring of Fire) that can be nearly impossible without relying on other players. Nightfall = three relatively easy quests that can be completed in less than an hour with three semi-decent heroes and four henchies...if you're lazy. Any ideas? |
Songbringer
personally i think the games have been getting easier as more players come and there r more im gonna say "noobs" what i mean is younger newer players. Look at ha u had the elites when there was just prophecies and u they iway. But rank ment sumthing. Now rank means next to nothing T_T
pamelf
I go back to do those missions now and they seem relatively simply. I think it's as much the individual players themselves who have improved since prophecies as it is the quests and missions have gotten easier.
Coloneh
prophecies is all easy if you take it slow like it was designed to be. nightfall is just fast.
Redfeather1975
I believe they simply wanted profession changing to be more accessible throughout more of the later campaigns. I've seen a number of changes in the game's design to support accessibility to variety on how the content is tackled.
Similar as to why they gave the player more choices in what skills they could get by offering them through skill trainers rather than quests.
Similar as to why they gave the player more choices in what skills they could get by offering them through skill trainers rather than quests.
Master Knightfall
Actually it's an AI monk(s) that know how to use the skills you give them that's made a lot of difference. Hell, I can do a lot of missions an areas with just three heroes in hard mode even. I play with only my three heroes until I fail an area 3 times. Then an only then will I bring more henchies and usually it's just 1 or 2 and they are the monks lol I remember doing some of the last areas and missions in Nightfall (where all the demons who rez their buddies) and had four AI monks, an AI mesmer and two AI eles fire and earth. I built a smite warrior and we kicked butt. Them dam "rain of terrors" I hate em I hate em I tells yah....when you run into five of those puppies at once you better spread your party out far and wide when you go pulling that group. The four grouped AI's usually got smoked at some points. No matter how good your pulling is they run up into the fray and get rained on. One monk I made a Mo/N and had her do blood renewal. I can't go anywhere without at least one of the blood renewing type of AI. It makes a big difference in big battles when one can go around and keep everyone in energy without much downtime.
The hero monks make pve life so much easier especially in normal mode. I'm just surprised anyone has trouble getting past anything in normal mode anymore it's just that easy now.
The hero monks make pve life so much easier especially in normal mode. I'm just surprised anyone has trouble getting past anything in normal mode anymore it's just that easy now.
Olim Chill
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Originally Posted by Master Knightfall
Wow you must really suk then because that was the first thing I did after I got my heroes and geared them up is went to the desert and did all those missions again with just my heroes and henchies. It was so easy I laughed. I've even taken people through who couldn't get other PUG groups to pick them up. The only real challenging mission left in Prophecies with heroes and henchies is THK, that one is still a goodie, but, easy to do once you know what to do. My heroes are so powerful I can play 3/4ths of the game with just the three of them (the holy trinity of monk, minion/curses necro and either an ele or ritualist) what stompage what power what a laugh and fun.
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DarkFlame
The Desert is the first place you can cap elites(and only a limited number of them), has henchmen below lvl20, party size of six and no max lvl armor(assuming of course you are properly following the storyline). On the other hand, by the time you are doing Hunted!, you and everyone around you are lvl20, have max armor, have a party size of 8, have heroes and access to more henchmen and access to a lot more elites.
Its really not that hard to see why their difficulties differ.
Its really not that hard to see why their difficulties differ.
RPGmaniac
There's collector armor in the desert that is max. And it technically still follows the storyline too.
Lord Darksoul
Maybe it was more difficult in Prophecies when that was the only game, cause of limited skills, no heroes, and as stated above, you're not even (supposedly) have armor with a max AL.
It's (IMO) because ANet made NF easier, and afte some time, the amount of skills and heroes made it pretty easy to finish off.
It's (IMO) because ANet made NF easier, and afte some time, the amount of skills and heroes made it pretty easy to finish off.
arsie
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Originally Posted by pamelf
...I think it's as much the individual players themselves who have improved since prophecies as it is the quests and missions have gotten easier.
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The desert missions can be hard if you're a Prophesies native playing only with the available Henchmen for the very first time. While people who Heroes breeze through those same missions.
Hunted is by far the easiest of the three Ascensions, it is also the one with the least deal made out of it. There is nothing mystical, just freeing prisoners of war and building a hiding place.
Ascension is a big deal in Prophesies, one of several important things to do in Factions, and a along-the-way in Nightfall. Same with the two 15 attribute point quests.
Just the change of emphasis with the maturity of the game. Its just odd now if you're encountering it as a new player, especially in the "wrong" order, but people who have played through the chapters have had their big deal Ascension already.
upier
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
Why is "ascension" in Nightfall so much exponentially easier than Ascension in Prophecies?
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Since you need to ascend to get into UW/FoW - I'd make it as easy as possible since otherwise we just have a barrier up that is preventing people from doing fun stuff.
I still remember running into people at ToA, forming a party and then being rejected by the NPC because they hadn't ascended.
I find it a much better option - along with the fact that one can change secondaries so early on!
Sha Noran
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
Why is "ascension" in Nightfall so much exponentially easier than Ascension in Prophecies?
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Master Knightfall
Or perhaps they learned how to make mistakes as seen in Nightfall and GWEN. Everything is too easy now on normal and some places totally rediculous in hard mode. They have changed so much and dumb down the game in a lot of places and made things so easy overall that it's not much fun to play anymore unless you like never having to worry about losing. Unless of course you group with just total idiots who are 8-10 years old and just are laughing and laughing as they screw up your fun.
Master Knightfall
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Originally Posted by Olim lll
I breezed through THK with H/H my very first time, finding it pretty simple...does that give me the right to say you "suk"? The following mission, Ring of Fire, I found more of a challenge. People find missions hard or easy for different reasons.
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Harrier's haste
It amazes me everytime I am here. How people can think up posts on ideas that is........incredibly trivial in GW as a whole. Yet here we are, already 2 pages.
Master Knightfall
And yep you're part of them two pages ain'tcha?
zwei2stein
Ascension is just tool/requirement to do challenging stuff.
There is just no need and no point to make it hard.
There is just no need and no point to make it hard.
Inger
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Originally Posted by Master Knightfall
Wow you must really suk then because that was the first thing I did after I got my heroes and geared them up is went to the desert and did all those missions again with just my heroes and henchies. It was so easy I laughed. I've even taken people through who couldn't get other PUG groups to pick them up. The only real challenging mission left in Prophecies with heroes and henchies is THK, that one is still a goodie, but, easy to do once you know what to do. My heroes are so powerful I can play 3/4ths of the game with just the three of them (the holy trinity of monk, minion/curses necro and either an ele or ritualist) what stompage what power what a laugh and fun.
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Why its like this?... I have no idea... maybe anet just wanted ppl to be able to change their secondaries around really early. TBH I didn't even realize it was the equivalent to ascension until quite a while after I had beaten the quests
Olim Chill
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Originally Posted by Master Knightfall
Hey I did also I just said it was a lil tougher than most others igmo. So no you can't say I suk because you suk if you had a hard time through Ring of Fire as I breezed through hell like it was newbieland.
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I never said I had a 'hard time' with Ring of Fire. I just said I found it more challenging than THK.
Believe what you want, of course. Godspeed.
Absolute Destiny
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Originally Posted by Inger
I think the OP was referring to those missions being hard when prophecies was first released. THat is only being able to play the ascension missions with pugs/henchies/guildies. I whole heartedly agree that pre-NF those missions were quite difficult, I suppose it could be attributed to the uselessness of henchies and the moronic nature of some pugs but thats beside the point. Overall when it was just prophecies around, those ascension missions were tough cookies. The equivalent quests in NF were on the other hand a breeze.
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Originally Posted by Olim lll
What's so hard to believe? In THK I was able to pick off numbers of foes from outside the walls - that made things pretty tame from there. The king followed along nicely and stayed out of danger. At the end, I guarded the throne with little trouble, save for a few tense moments during the last couple of waves.
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Wish Swiftdeath
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
Agreed. I beat THK my first time through with only henchies, not having any idea how the mission was put together (where to go, etc.). Still had nooo trouble.
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Navaros
There is nothing difficult about any of the GW games in normal mode. Also, there is no Ascension in NF.
Dkraftwerk
Heh...you know, until I read this thread I had no idea at what point you became ascended in NF. Same thing with Factions. It's funny, in Prophecies it feels like this test of trials to become a god, where as the others it's just "hey yeah your ascended move along now".
Selket
Ascention wasn't hard.
You're bad.
You're bad.
Jetdoc
Hunted is definitely the way to go.
freekedoutfish
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
Okay, after playing a Nightfall character through the Sunspear Sanctuary Command Post missions, and knowing that Hunted! is the Nightfall equivalent of Ascension, I'm left wondering something.
Why is "ascension" in Nightfall so much exponentially easier than Ascension in Prophecies? Prophecies = three of the most difficult missions in the entire campaign (I've done all except Ascension and the Ring of Fire) that can be nearly impossible without relying on other players. Nightfall = three relatively easy quests that can be completed in less than an hour with three semi-decent heroes and four henchies...if you're lazy. Any ideas? |
Prophercies had it right in the first place with asking us to do reasonably hard missions and a fight against yourself before you cuold reach a higher level. But the ascension in the other two games are just pathetic tbh.
Hyper Cutter
I found it more annoying the Nightfall ascension only works on Elonians, whereas Factions ascension works on Tyrians (the one foreign character who's been to the desert was already ascended from beating Factions, so no idea if Prophecies is as accommodating)...
freekedoutfish
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Originally Posted by Navaros
There is nothing difficult about any of the GW games in normal mode. Also, there is no Ascension in NF.
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Killing your duplicate in prophercies in HM is nothing more then using the necro skill to pass damage onto them and healing yourself somehow.
cgruber
I started playing GW with Nightfall. After beating it I purchased Prophecies and created a char there. I found the entire ascension thing to be pretty tedious. Not HARD, but just unnecessarily drawn out and slow. Just my opinion.
Master Knightfall
Yeah if you play a character up in Prophecies and don't cheat it's a longggggg way to ascension. I'd say at least 3/4ths of the game without them 30 extra attribute points and you still have to fight a lot of crap and go up into high Southern Shiverpeaks to get 15 of them. The other 15 are pretty easy just go find some stupid ancient guy out where all those hydras are. Getting past those centaur types is the hard part. To me that's when I assend is when I get those extra attribute points. They came pretty fast in Nightfall, easiest I'd say of all 3 chapters to get. Nightfall though pretty much sucked until one got to torment. I found the majority of the missions and quests rather boring. There were only a couple of rememberable ones the Drought was one, and where you had to defend the fort from wave after wave of mobs coming up different stairs was the other. Torment though was awesome, but, I got to finish it before the screwed up normal mode and that made it even more awesome. It's so easy now in normal mode and so rediculously hard in hard mode it's not even fun to play it either way now. I really hate the normal/hard mode way they screwed up the game. It was better the way it was.
~ Dan ~
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
Prophecies = three of the most difficult missions in the entire campaign (I've done all except Ascension and the Ring of Fire) that can be nearly impossible without relying on other players.
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