It's been a while since I posted, I was going through my server and found a damage calculator that I made for Mostly Harmless, (it helps to put down the Vampiric vs Sundering debate) PS. Vampiric wins. I slapped a design on it and just hope someone could get some use out of it because I don't play Guild Wars anymore...
It's accurate in all the tests I've done.. here ya go:
Guild Wars Damage Calculator
Equation courtesy of SonOfRah
Guild Wars Damage Calculator
Narcism
Vaal 84
very nice work indeed.
Vaal
Vaal
zwei2stein
Lagg
Hats off to you, sir.
Olim Chill
Excellent. Very nice job.
Narcism
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
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The calculator also doesn't require you to buy lots of items and mods to know that vampiric works best.
@All, thanks guy.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Narcism
Accuracy vs Broad Idea.
The calculator also doesn't require you to buy lots of items and mods to know that vampiric works best. @All, thanks guy. |
Narcism
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
True, but you cant be sure that formula you use is 100% right. Any ingame testing is kinda more reliable because it takes into account all hidden facts you have no idea about.
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You're more likely to get data that's askew from sampling then from this formula.
You're talking to a number-cruncher and a guy who studied game mechanics for a long time.
LifeInfusion
Narcism, you can use PvP equipment + wild blow.
Narcism
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Narcism, you can use PvP equipment + wild blow.
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LifeInfusion
Yes, to verify your application's crits... The damage ranges are pretty much constant except the crits and armor penetration triggers off of sundering and strength. So there's no doubt there.
You can vary the opponents' armor with the dummies. There are 60, 80, 100 armor dummies and 15,30,55 armor dummies in Nightfall.
You can vary the opponents' armor with the dummies. There are 60, 80, 100 armor dummies and 15,30,55 armor dummies in Nightfall.
SaucE
I think its broken, I make the armor 1 or 0 and it takes less damage.
Narcism
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Originally Posted by SaucE
I think its broken, I make the armor 1 or 0 and it takes less damage.
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The front page shows SAMPLE OUTPUT so you know what to expect when you get to the site.
If you typed in 0 armor, and hit submit when first arriving to the site, you'll do 0 damage because the min damage and max damage are set to 0 by default.
PS, the calculator is assuming you meet the req. or else you do Starter Weapon damage.
netniwk
now its official,vamp>sundering .
.
Narcism
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Originally Posted by netniwk
now its official,vamp>sundering
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Tyla
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Originally Posted by netniwk
now its official,vamp>sundering
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gj to the OP for your effort!
Narcism
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Originally Posted by tyla salanari
it always has been
gj to the OP for your effort! |
Longasc
The data was already known, most people just cannot interpret data given to them.
Your calculator does one thing that totally skews the data in favor of the vampiric mod, which is pretty poor to make a point:
You AVERAGE the data of the 20% chance of a 20% Armor Penetration critical hit.
This is your data for a Scythe at 14 Scythe Mastery and a 20%/20% sundering mod:
Without:
Normal Damage (Without Prefix)
46.8
Average Damage
13.3 Minimum Damage
60.6 Maximum Damage
85.8 Critical Hit Damage
37 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
46.8 Average Damage (including critical hits)
With Sundering Damage Prefix (20%)
49
Average Damage with 20% Sundering
Damage (20% Sundering)
13.9 Minimum Damage
63.4 Maximum Damage
89.8 Critical Hit Damage <- you averaged with the 20% chance here!
38.7 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
49 Average Damage (including critical hits)
The "true" Critical Hit on Sundering is 105. You averaged that over the chance to trigger (20% chance), so it is only (105-85.8)/5 = 3,84 more.
85.8+3.84= 89,64. -> an artificial "average" of critical hits that does not ever appear ingame.
This is your result. Which is the "average" of sundering hits, but does not represent a true sundering crit.
The point of sundering supporters is that a lucky 20% trigger can kill, whereas +3/+5 constant damage on each hit does not.
I leave it to people to make up their mind which mod they want, I just want to point out that a flawed calculator that gives misleading data is not really a good argument to support one or the other point in this debate.
Besides that, I like your calculator.
Your calculator does one thing that totally skews the data in favor of the vampiric mod, which is pretty poor to make a point:
You AVERAGE the data of the 20% chance of a 20% Armor Penetration critical hit.
This is your data for a Scythe at 14 Scythe Mastery and a 20%/20% sundering mod:
Without:
Normal Damage (Without Prefix)
46.8
Average Damage
13.3 Minimum Damage
60.6 Maximum Damage
85.8 Critical Hit Damage
37 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
46.8 Average Damage (including critical hits)
With Sundering Damage Prefix (20%)
49
Average Damage with 20% Sundering
Damage (20% Sundering)
13.9 Minimum Damage
63.4 Maximum Damage
89.8 Critical Hit Damage <- you averaged with the 20% chance here!
38.7 Average Damage (excluding critical hits)
49 Average Damage (including critical hits)
The "true" Critical Hit on Sundering is 105. You averaged that over the chance to trigger (20% chance), so it is only (105-85.8)/5 = 3,84 more.
85.8+3.84= 89,64. -> an artificial "average" of critical hits that does not ever appear ingame.
This is your result. Which is the "average" of sundering hits, but does not represent a true sundering crit.
The point of sundering supporters is that a lucky 20% trigger can kill, whereas +3/+5 constant damage on each hit does not.
I leave it to people to make up their mind which mod they want, I just want to point out that a flawed calculator that gives misleading data is not really a good argument to support one or the other point in this debate.
Besides that, I like your calculator.
Narcism
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Originally Posted by Longasc
The data was already known, most people just cannot interpret data given to them.
Your calculator does one thing that totally skews the data in favor of the vampiric mod, which is pretty poor to make a point: You AVERAGE the data of the 20% chance of a 20% Armor Penetration critical hit. This is your data for a Scythe at 14 Scythe Mastery and a 20%/20% sundering mod: Without: Normal Damage (Without Prefix) 46.8 Average Damage 13.3 Minimum Damage 60.6 Maximum Damage 85.8 Critical Hit Damage 37 Average Damage (excluding critical hits) 46.8 Average Damage (including critical hits) With Sundering Damage Prefix (20%) 49 Average Damage with 20% Sundering Damage (20% Sundering) 13.9 Minimum Damage 63.4 Maximum Damage 89.8 Critical Hit Damage <- you averaged with the 20% chance here! 38.7 Average Damage (excluding critical hits) 49 Average Damage (including critical hits) The "true" Critical Hit on Sundering is 105. You averaged that over the chance to trigger (20% chance), so it is only (105-85.8)/5 = 3,84 more. |
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Originally Posted by Longasc
85.8+3.84= 89,64. -> an artificial "average" of critical hits that does not ever appear ingame.
This is your result. Which is the "average" of sundering hits, but does not represent a true sundering crit. The point of sundering supporters is that a lucky 20% trigger can kill, whereas +3/+5 constant damage on each hit does not. |
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Originally Posted by Longasc
I leave it to people to make up their mind which mod they want, I just want to point out that a flawed calculator that gives misleading data is not really a good argument to support one or the other point in this debate.
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Originally Posted by Longasc
Besides that, I like your calculator.
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Longasc
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Originally Posted by Narcism
Underneat the "averaged" percentage. I displayed the 100% Sundering damage, which is, as you mentionned, 105
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Still I have to argue. The unlikely streak of Sundering triggering every time does not get an average displayed big and bold. This number is higher than +3/+5 vampiric even at high armor. Of course it is not realistic. Still, you do not display the average 100% sundering result at all.
That Vampiric always wins in DPS in comparison is not new to the debate. Not many deny this fact. Still there are many people who use sundering axes in PvP, in the hope to get in a lucky sundering hit before the guy starts kiting, blocking or gets away somehow. Your calculator adds valid numbers to the debate, but I must say it is not ending it. I personally tend to agree that Vampiric is superior.
This said, regarding the "numbers cruncher" thing you mentioned:
I am still trying to figure out how to calculate when 10% Furious is worth it. This is really complicated. But with the buff to "For Great Justice" and 20 seconds of double adrenaline, I wonder if a Dragon Slash build would still benefit from using a furious mod sword (with a 10% chance to give double adrenaline) in the remaining 25 seconds till recharge. When would it pay off? How many and what adrenaline skills would you need to have more benefit from it than from Sundering or Vampiric.
Narcism
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Originally Posted by Longasc
I am sorry. I should have got that 100% means sundering triggers all the time.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Longasc
Still I have to argue. The unlikely streak of Sundering triggering every time does not get an average displayed big and bold. This number is higher than +3/+5 vampiric even at high armor. Of course it is not realistic. Still, you do not display the average 100% sundering result at all.
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Originally Posted by Longasc
This said, regarding the "numbers cruncher" thing you mentioned:
I am still trying to figure out how to calculate when 10% Furious is worth it. This is really complicated. But with the buff to "For Great Justice" and 20 seconds of double adrenaline, I wonder if a Dragon Slash build would still benefit from using a furious mod sword (with a 10% chance to give double adrenaline) in the remaining 25 seconds till recharge. When would it pay off? How many and what adrenaline skills would you need to have more benefit from it than from Sundering or Vampiric. |
Which skills?
How many skills?
PS. I think there might have been an update where adrenaline was capped at getting 2x.
Racthoh
Nice work, looks really good. Would it be possible to get a slot in there for IAS though?
It's capped at 100%.
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Originally Posted by Narcism
PS. I think there might have been an update where adrenaline was capped at getting 2x.
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cellardweller
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
Nice work, looks really good. Would it be possible to get a slot in there for IAS though?
It's capped at 100%. |
Narcism
I'll see what I can do boys. This seems better doable.
Savio
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
And one for target level too?
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Pretty nice calculator, though I don't think any serious proponents of Sundering claim that it has a higher DPS. I suggest adding a critical hit modifier and removing the staff/wand damage tip - those crit differently than normal weapons.
Narcism
Critical Hit Modifier? The crit rate is automatically calculated based on the attribute level.
hurdlebeast
what about axe and daggers? don't they have separate critical hit lvls depending on attribute?
i mean don't get me wrong, it's a great calc, but you gotta remember the axe and dagger crit hit ratios.
i mean don't get me wrong, it's a great calc, but you gotta remember the axe and dagger crit hit ratios.
Woo
Very nice job, mate! 
Eldin
Silly little damage/skill calculators like these have been around since RuneScape.
It's about time someone in the GW community made one!
It's about time someone in the GW community made one!
Songbringer
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Originally Posted by Narcism
To test for critical hits... yes? I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Can you add armor penetration? Can you vary the opponents armor? Do you know what the non-critical-hit damage is?
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yes you can vary the armor of opponent.....isle of nameless ftw
yes you can add armor penetration to pvp equipment.......
yes you can easily see the non-critical hit damage is......
Savio
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Originally Posted by Narcism
Critical Hit Modifier? The crit rate is automatically calculated based on the attribute level.
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Originally Posted by hurdlebeast
what about axe and daggers? don't they have separate critical hit lvls depending on attribute?
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Originally Posted by Songbringer
yes you can vary the armor of opponent.....isle of nameless ftw
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Songbringer
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Originally Posted by Savio
Isle of the Nameless doesn't cover every possible situation. |
Edit: O and if you mean situations as far as they have a shout on them giving them +xx armor or a stance giving them xx% block or there shields that give +xx to xx type of damage. The calculator doesn't give that either
Proud Elitist
So how does this calculate Attack Speed for different weapons?
I typed in Wand damage range with no mods, 20%dmg, and 15 mastery and I got and average 26.2 damage per second. Where when I tested this in game, I got an average of 10 damage per second after 55 seconds.
This damage is way off.
I typed in Wand damage range with no mods, 20%dmg, and 15 mastery and I got and average 26.2 damage per second. Where when I tested this in game, I got an average of 10 damage per second after 55 seconds.
This damage is way off.
Savio
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Originally Posted by Songbringer
it would for pvp when the max armors are all there.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Proud Elitist
So how does this calculate Attack Speed for different weapons?
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Narcism
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Originally Posted by Songbringer
it would for pvp when the max armors are all there. who cares about it in pve really?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Songbringer
Edit: O and if you mean situations as far as they have a shout on them giving them +xx armor or a stance giving them xx% block or there shields that give +xx to xx type of damage. The calculator doesn't give that either
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Dagger Wagger
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Originally Posted by Proud Elitist
So how does this calculate Attack Speed for different weapons?
I typed in Wand damage range with no mods, 20%dmg, and 15 mastery and I got and average 26.2 damage per second. Where when I tested this in game, I got an average of 10 damage per second after 55 seconds. This damage is way off. |
Savio
Wand and staff damage is based on character level, like spell damage is; for general purposes, at level 20 a character deals 100% of the listed damage.
Narcism
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Originally Posted by Savio
Wand and staff damage is based on character level, like spell damage is; for general purposes, at level 20 a character deals 100% of the listed damage.
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