Hi people.
I've noticed that if you post a motherload of suggested skill changes, they all tend to go unheard, especially since you'll have a hard time making everyone agree with everything.
Thus I'm only posting one request here to the skill balancing team. I don't know if they read this forum very diligently but it can't hurt to try.
Quite simply, as per the thread title, I request Wail of Doom to be made a shout. It makes perfect sense lore-wise, more so than the current implementation, and it would bypass spell hating. Since WoD isn't used a lot, making the skill a little more attractive could be a good thing for PvP reasons, also making the N primary a little more desirable.
My ideal change to the skill would be:
Wail Of Doom
Elite Shout
10e
<No skill activation time>
10r
Sacrifice 10% Health, and target foe is interrupted. All shouts end on target foe, and if target foe was attacking, all of that foe's attack skills are disabled for 0...12...16 seconds.
The phrase "if target foe was attacking" could be changed to "if target foe was using an attack skill" or "if target foe was using a skill" for some moderation to this effect.
However, simply retyping the skill as a Shout would be a start.
Comments, flames, anything?
Kindly, Moloch
Make Wail Of Doom a Shout
Moloch Vein
RhanoctJocosa
10e/10r is too strong considering it's a ranged blackout imo.
Moloch Vein
^ Right now it's 15/15. I suggested change to the duration of the disabling, also possibly change to skill behavior. Right now it's just "stick on any attacker and boom". Still the skill is rarely used, and it's one of the only potentially interesting N primary skills for serious PvP concerns.
I do believe it would be immensely attractive were it given the power to end active shouts. Might be enough to see N return to active play in higher-level PvE. It's also a skill effect that should've existed a long time ago, in my humble opinion.
What do you feel about the main request (i.e. making it Shout)?
I do believe it would be immensely attractive were it given the power to end active shouts. Might be enough to see N return to active play in higher-level PvE. It's also a skill effect that should've existed a long time ago, in my humble opinion.
What do you feel about the main request (i.e. making it Shout)?
ShadowsRequiem
ummm why make it a shout?
and how does this make it more playable? its fine the way it is. I love running it in ab where these morons have no idea what hit them.
Also I think the wail of doom is from the guy you hit with it!
and how does this make it more playable? its fine the way it is. I love running it in ab where these morons have no idea what hit them.
Also I think the wail of doom is from the guy you hit with it!
iriyabran
a necro elite going under shouts is weird
it is usable as it is now imo but noone cares to try it
if they buff it it's gonna be abused though
it is usable as it is now imo but noone cares to try it
if they buff it it's gonna be abused though
Moloch Vein
^ AB isn't exactly high-level PvP. God knows necromancers need a way back into that.
It would be stronger and more attractive were the recharge shorter. Shout-disabling effect would make it very strong for serious PvP. Retyping to "Shout" would make it capable of targetting spell-shielded creatures, make it immune to spell-hate and more. Since shout hate is so terribly weak in GW, this change would be a major buff.
At the same time this would actually be a viable way to "hex" frontline that was immune to HEV. The change to the skill behavior (only on attack skill or only on skill = disable) would remove the "skill-less" aspect of it.
It would be stronger and more attractive were the recharge shorter. Shout-disabling effect would make it very strong for serious PvP. Retyping to "Shout" would make it capable of targetting spell-shielded creatures, make it immune to spell-hate and more. Since shout hate is so terribly weak in GW, this change would be a major buff.
At the same time this would actually be a viable way to "hex" frontline that was immune to HEV. The change to the skill behavior (only on attack skill or only on skill = disable) would remove the "skill-less" aspect of it.
ShadowsRequiem
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
^ AB isn't exactly high-level PvP. God knows necromancers need a way back into that.
It would be stronger and more attractive were the recharge shorter. Shout-disabling effect would make it very strong for serious PvP. Retyping to "Shout" would make it capable of targetting spell-shielded creatures, make it immune to spell-hate and more. Since shout hate is so terribly weak in GW, this change would be a major buff. At the same time this would actually be a viable way to "hex" frontline that was immune to HEV. The change to the skill behavior (only on attack skill or only on skill = disable) would remove the "skill-less" aspect of it. |
Shout doesnt make that much sense as a necro has never had any shouts.... thats more towards the warrior and paragon class. Curses and hexes :P
But I vote we change the name to Wail Of DOH!
Lord Twitchiopolis
While I like the flavor behind this idea, I feel it's one that poses more problems than is worthwhile.
As it stands, Wail of Doom has a 1/4th second activation, cannot be activated while using other skills, can be interrupted, and is affected by the Daze condition. Making it a shout would compleately change all of that. Additionally, it would introduce a PvP ready shout to the one class with three shout-hate skills; Vocal minority, ulcerous lungs, and well of silence. It would be the only shout for a spellcasting class in PvP.
Causing Wail to be a chant would provide the least disturbence to its functionality. However, even then it would create several problems and dilemas. It would be the only non paragon chant, the only chant used against foes, ect ect. As far as it goes, I think it's best left leaving it as a spell. However, I would like to see a flavor hint added to the "Wail" aspect of it, similar to that of Cry of Fustration.
As it stands, Wail of Doom has a 1/4th second activation, cannot be activated while using other skills, can be interrupted, and is affected by the Daze condition. Making it a shout would compleately change all of that. Additionally, it would introduce a PvP ready shout to the one class with three shout-hate skills; Vocal minority, ulcerous lungs, and well of silence. It would be the only shout for a spellcasting class in PvP.
Causing Wail to be a chant would provide the least disturbence to its functionality. However, even then it would create several problems and dilemas. It would be the only non paragon chant, the only chant used against foes, ect ect. As far as it goes, I think it's best left leaving it as a spell. However, I would like to see a flavor hint added to the "Wail" aspect of it, similar to that of Cry of Fustration.
Moloch Vein
Doesn't it make sense? After all it's called "Wail" of Doom. That seems pretty sensible to me.
Lord Twitchiopolis
[QUOTE=ShadowsRequiem]
Shout doesnt make that much sense as a necro has never had any shouts.... thats more towards the warrior and paragon class. Curses and hexes :P
[QUOTE]
And Rangers, rangers have shouts too.
Shout doesnt make that much sense as a necro has never had any shouts.... thats more towards the warrior and paragon class. Curses and hexes :P
[QUOTE]
And Rangers, rangers have shouts too.
RhanoctJocosa
Changing it to a shout would only eliminate the chance of it being interrupted, and it's a 1/4s cast so I don't know what good it'll do. It ending shouts would be interesting I guess, but removing shouts off rangers/warriors (which is who you'd mostly be putting this on) isn't as useful as removing them off monks and other squishies.
It has potential as a skill but I really doubt it will see play (even with the proposed changes) simply because there are stronger forms of anti melee that actually create pressure. (zzz battery running low on laptop, can't charge. i'll try expand later)
It has potential as a skill but I really doubt it will see play (even with the proposed changes) simply because there are stronger forms of anti melee that actually create pressure. (zzz battery running low on laptop, can't charge. i'll try expand later)
Lord Twitchiopolis
It makes sense from a flavor aspect, but as I've said, it's really too much of a functionality headache to modify it. :-\
Moloch Vein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Twitchiopolis
As it stands, Wail of Doom has a 1/4th second activation, cannot be activated while using other skills, can be interrupted, and is affected by the Daze condition. Making it a shout would compleately change all of that.
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Quote:
| Additionally, it would introduce a PvP ready shout to the one class with three shout-hate skills; Vocal minority, ulcerous lungs, and well of silence. It would be the only shout for a spellcasting class in PvP. |
Lord Twitchiopolis
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
Changing it to a shout would only eliminate the chance of it being interrupted, and it's a 1/4s cast so I don't know what good it'll do. It ending shouts would be interesting I guess, but removing shouts off rangers/warriors (which is who you'd mostly be putting this on) isn't as useful as removing them off monks and other squishies.
It has potential as a skill but I really doubt it will see play (even with the proposed changes) simply because there are stronger forms of anti melee that actually create pressure. (zzz battery running low on laptop, can't charge. i'll try expand later) |
ShadowsRequiem
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Doesn't it make sense? After all it's called "Wail" of Doom. That seems pretty sensible to me.
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Lets make big hands come out of the sky and protect you when the w/mos use healing hands!
better yet phoenix will actually have one now!
just get away from the whole it makes sense cause of it's name thing.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
Changing it to a shout would only eliminate the chance of it being interrupted, and it's a 1/4s cast so I don't know what good it'll do. It ending shouts would be interesting I guess, but removing shouts off rangers/warriors (which is who you'd mostly be putting this on) isn't as useful as removing them off monks and other squishies.
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My feel (as I'm thinking), and I did create this thread to start discussion about the skill, is that the shout-ending effect, Attack skill disable only on attack skill usage, and modifications to R and E-cost would create a good result.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
it doesnt really matter for the name given to it...........
Lets make big hands come out of the sky and protect you when the w/mos use healing hands! better yet phoenix will actually have one now! just get away from the whole it makes sense cause of it's name thing. |
Cathode_Reborn
Like other people have said in other places, Wail could be very overpowered if buffed too much. Part of guild wars is countering the other team's skills, but even counters have counters. There really isn't a counter to Wail - once you've used it on someone, there's nothin they can do about it. The req on it is so easy to meet, and it's a 1/4 cast.
I think it should actually be made a hex so it's removable.....then it could be safely buffed.
I think it should actually be made a hex so it's removable.....then it could be safely buffed.
Lord Twitchiopolis
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
Like other people have said in other places, Wail could be very overpowered if buffed too much. Part of guild wars is countering the other team's skills, but even counters have counters. There really isn't a counter to Wail - once you've used it on someone, there's nothin they can do about it. The req on it is so easy to meet, and it's a 1/4 cast.
I think it should actually be made a hex so it's removable.....then it could be safely buffed. |
Moloch Vein
[QUOTE=Cathode_Reborn]Like other people have said in other places, Wail could be very overpowered if buffed too much.[QUOTE]Very true. However that's why I suggest a buff-nerf. Change the disable duration down. Reduce the recharge. Make it disable only on interruption of an attack Skill.
In my opinion, Wail of Doom is a key skill that could become the base of a meaningful necromancer role for higher-end PvP.
Making it a Hex would completely destroy the skill for competitive PvP.
In my opinion, Wail of Doom is a key skill that could become the base of a meaningful necromancer role for higher-end PvP.
Making it a Hex would completely destroy the skill for competitive PvP.
Trylo
youre all overcomplicating this. all you have to do with change wail to leech of doom or something like that. problem solved!
OR better yet just make the little %$#@& thing pop up over someones head when they get interrupted, just like cry of frustration.
on topic: i dont think wail of doom can be a shout for balancing *cough* problems. an interrupt while casting those 2 or 3 second hexes for interrupting a melee foe (you could be multitasking, hexing one melee while wailing the other) would be overpowered. i dont like the idea of 1 character being able to take out 2 characters that easily. a good mes can do it, but am OK with that because that is the hardest mes position to play and it deserves rewards.
personally i dont see what is wrong with it now. you can keep one melee totally out with ~100 of your health and 15 of your energy (cant even build adr.!). overpowering this skill will not make necros viable in PvP, fixing their profession as a whole will make them viable in PvP.
OR better yet just make the little %$#@& thing pop up over someones head when they get interrupted, just like cry of frustration.
on topic: i dont think wail of doom can be a shout for balancing *cough* problems. an interrupt while casting those 2 or 3 second hexes for interrupting a melee foe (you could be multitasking, hexing one melee while wailing the other) would be overpowered. i dont like the idea of 1 character being able to take out 2 characters that easily. a good mes can do it, but am OK with that because that is the hardest mes position to play and it deserves rewards.
personally i dont see what is wrong with it now. you can keep one melee totally out with ~100 of your health and 15 of your energy (cant even build adr.!). overpowering this skill will not make necros viable in PvP, fixing their profession as a whole will make them viable in PvP.
MithranArkanere
Necromancers do not have shouts.
MagmaRed
Only thing I can see being worthwhile would be making it a skill, instead of a spell. Shout would be too powerful, and would not fit with the game. Skill would allow it to be used against things like Vow of Silence, but still be interrupted, etc. If it was made into a skill, I'd think it would need to be changed to a 1/2 second activation, maybe 3/4 second.
I used this in GvG once for fun. It was very powerful. Making it more powerful is not what balance is about.
I used this in GvG once for fun. It was very powerful. Making it more powerful is not what balance is about.
lutz
So, basically, instead of Monks, you run two Wail of Dooms and you're invincible?
That sounds balanced.
/not
That sounds balanced.
/not
Dronte
The skill is fine as it is, shout=no arcane echo. I use it sometimes on my necro, lovely skill if you can use it.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lutz
So, basically, instead of Monks, you run two Wail of Dooms and you're invincible?
That sounds balanced. /not |
Phoenix Tears
shouts are not for nekros ..
notsigned ...
notsigned ...
jayce
i kinda like this utility idea, but i also agree with MagmaRed. if anything, make it a skill instead of a spell. but as far as the cast time MagmaRed, that is fine the way it is, especially when you will have to catch them using an attack skill to disable. i doubt that this change alone will be enough to bring back the necromancer into PvP. its possible but they would have a far better chance if it was accompanied with other support skills, preferably in the SR line. unfortunately, that would require some shifting and reworking. maybe Anet will surprise us one day...
Jayce Of Underworld
Jayce Of Underworld
RhanoctJocosa
I agree with Trylo that being able to focus shutdown on one warrior and just disrupting the other one's spikes would be pretty OP. That's just theory crafting ofc; I don't think people would run this guy in the current meta unless it's a hex based build.
Curse You
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Doesn't it make sense? After all it's called "Wail" of Doom. That seems pretty sensible to me.
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Solus Spartan
Sure
/signed
/signed
Tyla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Curse You
This is where the thread should have stopped. As soon as someone's only argument is "it would make sense" you know it's not going anywhere.
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/notsigned
the Puppeteer
can you even make a good build using that elite?
Darkhell153
necros don't have shouts, it's not in their character to go yelling around *ex. Necro hero Master of Whispers lol :P*
though seriously it's a magic based build, putting in a shout would sorta be dumb.
besides most of these ideas on how to make it work on a shout are stupid
and listen to him, he obviously knows what he's talking about
though seriously it's a magic based build, putting in a shout would sorta be dumb.
besides most of these ideas on how to make it work on a shout are stupid
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Curse You
This is where the thread should have stopped. As soon as someone's only argument is "it would make sense" you know it's not going anywhere.
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Nevin
I never understood why the player basis is so stubborn to allow other professions to mix and match skill types...
Back in the day when I used to spam this section of the forum with ideas I thought of everything from Elemental Summons for ele's, Reanimation Resurrection for necro's, Glyphs for mesmers, what it comes down to is people just don't like skill types being switched between professions. Dunno why, they all can use signets can't they? Just seems stubborn in my opinion.
Anyways I like your idea a lot, it'd definitely make me take a look at the skill.
Back in the day when I used to spam this section of the forum with ideas I thought of everything from Elemental Summons for ele's, Reanimation Resurrection for necro's, Glyphs for mesmers, what it comes down to is people just don't like skill types being switched between professions. Dunno why, they all can use signets can't they? Just seems stubborn in my opinion.
Anyways I like your idea a lot, it'd definitely make me take a look at the skill.
Kanyatta
OMG! NO! STOP!
Wail of Doom is already overpowered in 4v4 arenas, please don't make it AoE or buff it anymore! Any decent WoD necro can shut down any melee for the entire match. The last thing this skill needs is a buff.
Wail of Doom is already overpowered in 4v4 arenas, please don't make it AoE or buff it anymore! Any decent WoD necro can shut down any melee for the entire match. The last thing this skill needs is a buff.
Moloch Vein
I did not suggest making it AoE or any clean buff.
Do you deny that necromancers are practically shut out of high end PvP? What should be done to fix this?
As for the person making that little snide remark about me talking of "sense" that was a reply to someone who said it "made no sense", for an altogether arbitrary reason. One might wonder who is truly at fault there.
Do you deny that necromancers are practically shut out of high end PvP? What should be done to fix this?
As for the person making that little snide remark about me talking of "sense" that was a reply to someone who said it "made no sense", for an altogether arbitrary reason. One might wonder who is truly at fault there.
ensoriki
Quote:
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Originally Posted by the Puppeteer
can you even make a good build using that elite?
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Go from there >.>
Or Maybe
Wail of Doom + power Drain+signet of Lost Souls