Graphics errors

My post in bugs forum, before I found out it was happening everywhere:
To explain how it started, I was in the middle of a Bloodstone Fen HM mission with two guildies. As soon as I got to the Blade Scout, I started seeing these weird things. I thought it was just the mission, as nothing happened in the next outpost I was in. I went to do the Finding the Bloodstone GWEN quest [Haha, I just noticed I went from Bloodstone to Bloodstone] and more weird things are happening through the mission. I've never had problems like these before on my NVIDIA 6800.

And as far as I know, all the visual glitching has stopped.

More issues. Last night and this morning, my monitor would freak out and then my computer would restart itself, or I had to do it manually.

The second time this happened [last night], when I opened my browser it took me to a microsoft help page and told me I should probably download a new NVIDIA graphics driver, and so I did. It hasn't changed anything, as it crashed again three minutes ago.

My vote would be overheating. Check for dust build up in your case and particularly in the graphics card.

^^ agree. Also check to make sure the graphics card is fully seated in it's slot. It might even be better to take it out and reinsert it.

*cleans the pound of cat hair built up in every nook and cranny* >>;

How does one take out a graphics card? *doesn't know where it is*


Ehhh, not the overheating. It was on for ten minutes before it crashed again. It ONLY crashes when GW is open. I set it to lowest graphics, and it still crashed. It is never in full view, as in, I never F11 it so that I can still access my taskbar. It doesn't happen while I'm in a lag-causing area more than an empty guildhall.

definitely looks like overheating, chances are the fan on it is dying or horribly clogged with dust!

I had a radeon 9800 that ended up this way, the fan was dying and eventually got harder to turn, couldn't even full screen it without the game crashing 5seconds-2minutes later...

You'll have to go in that dust-infested computer and clean it out, or pull out the card and... brace yourself... buy a new one to replace it!

D: ! Where is the card and what's it look like?

It's the card that the lead connecting to your monitor goes to.

Not very computer savvy, when I read card, I think rectangular piece of paper. Is it the big plug with two screw-on things?

it's the card your monitor is connected to with a blue or white plug.

It will probably look like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130063

Open up the case and check to make sure the cooling fan on the card is turning while the computer is on, try not to touch anything, and make sure you don't run the risk of a static shock on the computer.

When you look on the motherboard (biggest part of the computer), your video card is likely to be mounted in a blue (pci-express) or brown (agp) slot.

If you turn the computer off and try to turn the fan lightly with your finger, if it's working properly it should be very loose and easy to turn, if the fan itself actually shows some resistance and doesn't keep turning after you touch it, then it most likely means there's something wrong with it (it could mean the fan isn't able to turn fast enough to draw enough air onto the card's heat sink which will keep it cooled down)

230 FPS? Something MUST be wrong. I'm used to 50.

Going to do above post in a minute.


Okay, poked around. Very dusty. The fans work great and I now highly doubt it has anything to do with overheating. I checked all the prongs of the monitor plug as a guildy suggested. I've been online since I got home, and my computer doesn't randomly crash. It ONLY happens when I am on GW.

You didn't post specs but some possible problems

1: as others pointed out could be video card dying - if GW is only game you play it would not be unusual for it to be putting more stress on your card than anything else you do - when my video card was dying GW was the only program affected for a while. (this is your most likely problem)

2: you said it crashed? Could be caused by too little memory - my lap top would do that after a few minutes of play - more memory fixed it

3: Dying power supply - it may be adequate for most things but not holding up under stress

4: Over heating can still be a problem even if the fans work fine - if the air flow is wrong it can still heat up - speed fan can usually give you some idea if it is overheating. Leaving off the side cover and having a house fan blow directly into the case can also tell you if heating is the problem. If the game is stable while doing that - then the problem was air flow. If that works more fans or making sure the ones you have direct air flow freely will help.

5: It is remotely possible you have a corrupted or very badly defragmented dat file. You could down load the dat or defragment it - but i really doubt that will help.
did you say you were getting 230 fps? - that seems very high - did you mean 23?

I have over 100 GB of memory.

I read the thing on the PlayNC, this was part of what it said. It's not overheating as far as I can tell. It's barely even warm.

No, I'm pretty sure it wasn't really that high, but that IS what it said.

I think you are looking at the hard drive there - you need to see what the system memory or RAM is.

Regardless, a dying video card is the best bet for what's going on there.

Hello Zeek,

According to the Everest report your video card is running at 64 °C (147 °F) which is too hot for stable performance. If this is an idle temperature, you can expect this to spike when a load is placed on your computer (such as playing a game). High temperatures can cause system instability. Please try removing the side of your computer case and inspect each fan on the motherboard, processor, and video card. Make sure they are running properly and free of dust. In addition, keep the side of the case off and point a house fan in the general direction of the case. This will dramatically increase airflow and possibly cool things off. Please let me know if this has any effect on your problem, either solving it entirely or reducing the frequency.


Regards,
Guild Wars Technical Support


*cry*

There's no way I can keep a fan on it; it's inside of a cabinet with a little window in the back of the cabinet for a little bit of airflow. I don't have any tools but a mouth and a screwdriver, so I'm going to attempt to blow the dust out. If that doesn't work, then I don't know.

When you say cabinet, do you mean the tower sits in one of those cabinets like computer desks come with? Perhaps if you could post a photo so people can see your set-up someone would be able to suggest way to improve airflow.

The printer is off 99% of the time and the lava lamp hasn't been on for two years, so if they have any affect, ignore them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ssmadebyme.png

Just spent three hours cleaning out all the stuff inside my computer and it's still at 120º most of the time.

This happened to me too! I bought a brand new computer last year, and the ONLY time it crashed was when I was playing GW. It started the day I bought it. I have taken that computer to get fixed so many times, they are always like "therez noting wrong lololol!" so basically i have an expensive dust collector now. It used to crash every 30 minutes, eventually I started getting the BSOD, then it wouldnt even turn on. So I would format it, it would work until I tried to play GW and then start crashing again. I have tried everything, and nothing has resolved this issue. SO I bought a new computer.

I believe this might be where I'm heading... >-< But thank you MUCH for the input! Glad I'm not alone on this planet.

Unfortunately, you're right - that cabinet is just going to block all air flow.

120 is not bad for a video card if that is under load (most can handle up to 150 F under load) but if that is idle that is still too high - although the video card usually can handle slightly higher temps than the cpu.

If that is what it runs while in the cabinet you might see if you can remove the back of the cabinet behind the tower and move the whole desk a little away from the wall. that would give space for the air to flow. Doesn't look like you have any side fans so just improving the air flow from front to back would help a lot.

But, if that is what it runs outside the cabinet then you will need to do something about the cooling in the tower itself.

1: Cheap option leave the tower outside the cabinet - about where it is in the picture, take off the side of the case and direct a house fan at the computer.

2: You could add fans or after market cooling. If there is anywhere to add another fan put one in (remember that air moves from front to back so make sure they are facing the right way) - also, they do make after market cooling for video cards that may do a better job than the original

3: If you aren't afraid of messing with the system you can move it to a new case with better cooling.

Of course any of those would still require opening up the back of that cabinet somehow to let the air flow.

If you really can't do anything with the cabinet and absolutely must leave the tower in it then you may need to be daring and go for liquid cooling. they do make liquid coolers for the gpu and cpu - but you should have someone who knows what they are doing help you out.

And the really bad news is that if the video card was overheating it could already be shot.

Frankly, the best place to start is to let it sit outside the cabinet on the floor take the side panel off and direct a house fan at the insides. Play guild wars and run other programs and see what happens. If that helps then you know cooling was the problem and that your video card was not permanently damaged by the heat so you can make your decision from there. If you still get errors while it is out and has a fan blowing on it then there is a good chance your card is already damaged and you need to look at getting a new video card. (if you do get a new video card be absolutely sure your power supply is big enough to handle it and look at the reviews of the cards - pay special attention to how well the stock cooler works)

-------------------------------------------

Edit - if you do get a new computer, don't put it in that cabinet. The new systems put out a lot of heat and that cabinet will just trap it and give you a new dust collector real fast. Also, if you get a new system keep in mind that even though GW-nf says that 512 is the minimum RAM, your new system will probably have vista and that eat almost 1 gig by itself so you would need to go for at least 1.5 gig of RAM - more if it has integrated video.

If you have a dual-core processor, try forcing GW to run in only one core. Google "ForceCore" for a simple solution.

Sadly, this is the issue.

Le sigh. I'll have to talk to my parent and see what my options are. Ultimate suckage that this happened before a weekend I needed to participate in. D:

Not a dual-core.

Well - the quick and dirty solution would be to have it outside the cabinet, take off the side panel and aim a fan at it.

If your parents won't let you leave it outside the cabinet all the time make sure you have plenty of length in the cords in the back and then pull the case out of the cabinet, open it, and aim the fan at it while you play and then put it back in the cabinet when you are done. Kind of a hassle but it would work.

You haven't mentioned how it is working since you cleaned it and pulled it out - you did manage to drop the temp 27 degrees - is it working any better? If so, that 27 degrees might be all you needed.

GPU 61 °C (142 °F)
GPU Ambient 55 °C (131 °F)

Last night the top one was at 120-130º but that was out of the cabinet. I just took it out so it should be cooling down soon I think.


One reason I'm pretty sure I won't be able to leave my computer open is that I have cats roaming the house. If I get up to go to the bathroom, I could come back to an irreparable mess.

Down to 138. GW made it spike to 150 and I closed it down again before it could raise more. This wasn't while doing anything; I was only standing in the outpost I spawned in. Dammit! I NEED MY SS RANKS UP!

Down to 130. The door is open [it's cold outside] and I don't think it'll get any lower.

127...

If you are running 150 under load - that is about 67C and 120 idle is about 49C.

Doing some checking, that may not be that far out of range for that card. I see other posters on other sites reporting temps about that range - some are peeking at 90C (194F) under load (which seems very high to me). A lot of video cards are meant to load into the 70's C. (apparently ATI claims some of their cards can handle up to 100C) The idle of 49 still seems a little high to me but not by much. You might want to give it a try and see if you still get the problems - if the problems don't come back then you may have gotten the card down low enough.

Oh, and one other suggestion - if you have had the card for a year or so, you might want to replace the thermal grease on it's cooing unit - a lot of times that can make a big difference.

Three or four years now. >>; Thermal grease? I have no idea what that means.

Grrr. Dell support chat disconnected and now they're too busy for me.

Thermal grease is a paste that is between the gpu on the video card and the cooler. No metal is perfectly smooth so the grease fills in any gaps to help transfer heat. But over time it can lose its effectiveness so it is a good idea to re-apply it now and then. You should be able to find something on the internet about the best way to do it.

Apfffffft. Stubborn Dell. Stayed up until three in the morning listening to them. Download this, download that. Ugh, they could have just looked for themselves while they had control of my PC and seen that I had EVERYTHING they wanted me to download. Then they say system restore. I tried it at three different locations and it continued to crash, because you guys and NC have said a million times that it's the video card/overheating, not because I don't have drivers or spyware. Still waiting for them to reply; NC has stopped talking to me.

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO! Now it's starting to crash when I'm not even playing GW! I only had firefox and msn on and it's crashed twice now.

Okay, so NC has said all they've said, and their only suggestions were that I get new PCI slot fans. Dell so far hasn't helped me do anything, and is VERY BAD at getting back to me. Because I mentioned to my parent that someone in this forum said my video card might be fried or broken or whatever, she believes that, while I believe it's just a matter of heating issues.

What causes the heating issues? How would I know if I need a new video card?

Basically heating issues will happen when the heat generated by the graphics processor can not move away from the processor quickly enough. Several things can cause it

1: badly seated cooling unit that does not make contact with the gpu

2: old thermal grease that is not adequately transferring the heat from the gpu to the cooling unit

3: dust collecting in the radiator of the cooling unit or in the grill of the fan so that the hot air can not move away from the video card

4: trapped air (such as in your cabinet) that will not allow the hot air to move away from the video card and system

5: a dying power supply or a power supply that is too small for the system because it is not supplying enough power to run both the system needs and the fans

6: fans pointed in the wrong direction - for instance, if all your fans point inwards, it will trap the air in your case instead of blowing it out - you need a good clear air way through the case

also the cpu, bridges, ram, hard drives, video card (gpu) and power unit all generate heat and the combination can add up if you don't have free moving air.

Most video cards will throttle down if they start getting too hot but that is often not enough to compensate for poor cooling

And a heating issue that goes on long enough will shorten the life of the card so that what began as a heating issue often will wind up ruining the card.

If your system is starting to crash even when you are just browsing (especially if it was outside the cabinet at the time) then you have a more serious problem. Chances are good the video card has been ruined since that is what usually gets the hottest.

Unfortunately, there is no guarantee. There is always some possibility that something else died and that a new video card would not completely cure the problem. (heat can also be deadly for the hard drives and the cpu. Hard drives, especially, are prone to wear and tear because they are the only real moving parts in the system.)

As far as testing...if your mother board has onboard video ability you could remove the video card and see if the system still works (if your mother board has onboard video you will see a 2nd video output on the back of your system - except it will be vertical instead of horizontal - most motherboards that have onboard video will automatically detect if no other card is installed and enable onboard integrated graphics. If yours has onboard graphics but does not automatically detect the absence of another card then you will have to get out your manual and see how to reset things in the bios) This is certainly the easiest way to test and with a 3-4 year old system there is a good chance it does have onboard graphics

If your mother board does not have onboard video then the only way to test it out would be to try the card in another computer and see if it works...........

or borrow a different card and try it in your system.............

Short of having a professional look at it for about 75 bucks an hour that about all you can do.

Getting a new video card for free, yay warranty! Also getting a new fan.

In two days or so, I'll post whether the issue is fixed or not.

EDIT: Whoops. "It will be shipped in one to two business days" now "You will get it in one to two business days." >-< Now to play the waiting game.

Excellent! .

And many months later.

I just got a free replacement [yay warranty!] and now it's all better. After EVERYTHING I went through, the only thing to help was a new shiny PC.

Yay, glad it all sorted out for you!

And thanks for the update - so many threads in Tech Corner don't give closure