Hero AI improvements

1) When you flag your heros and hechies they should space out just like they
space out around you. This is the main probelm with spellcaster players -
getting you heros into position. Often they all stand in the same spot and
are taken out by enemy AoE spells.

2) When you move, heros/hechies should run only if they are outside a varied range
from you. The range should vary based on the relative player/hero health:

if the player has low health and he runs, the run radious should be larger
if the player and heros have about the same health - the radious should be small
- we're all hurting - stay together and retreat
- we're all heathy - stay together, maybe there's another group comming and we don't
want to aggro them
- player is hurting, but heros are health - stay and fight. You see this all the time
your taking damage, you run, and your healthy monks just run leaving you to your fate,
while your healthy attackers stop attacking and follow you
- heros hurting, player healthy - stay together and run with the player - he's trying
to save you all

This is a big problem with melee charaters with heros

3) Guard mode - attack anyone that comes with hero's aggro circle
Attack mode - attack anyone that comes within hero's aggro circle
increase follow player radius (will stay and fight more)
stand further ahead of player

4) MM heros - could stay a little closer to the player, but still not so close as
to aggro with all the minions

Don't stand, don't stand so close to me.

/signed

I'm with ya Draco. It's always annoying when I'm in a battle and I need to kite away from an enemy and my heroes or hench think I'm retreating so they stop attacking to follow me for a few steps. It would be nice to have the AI keep attacking after you call a target until either you run farther away or possibly we had a "retreat" hotkey we could press to let all AI know it was time to disengage. Having to constantly use the party flag to tell the AI "don't follow me" during a battle gets old.

I also hate it when I am playing a caster, and in order to instigate a fight with a mob, I have to be the one to do it, even though I'd rather be the Monk and sit in the backline, I have to go past the frontline, wand something, run back, and hope to God that the heroes attack.

/sign

/signed
We all have experienced at least one frustration with heroes that Draco has proposed a solution to.

In agreement that the Hero AI should be tweak somehow.

here's some of my ideas:

a toggle or a selection check box

check boxes
1) run close to me (when running and trying to avoid mobs)
2) spread out after reaching flag points (ideally can arrange which hero/hench stands infront)
3) spread out while running along side me (generally running and avoiding aoe)
4) stop to fight or dodge when running to flag points instead of not doing anything until they reach flag points.
5) do not stand inside my character or any other heros or henchmen :P
5) emergency spread out keyboard shortcuts
6) alert me when hero is outside of map range (for when I forgot to unflag them and fighting mob without a monk :P)

My main thing is that I REALLY wish there was a way to scatter them. I don't have any troubleflagging tanks or MMs forward to start battles, but H/Hing Cyndr and other bosses with nasty AOE is aggravating because even if I can switch up my hero flags to avoid most of it, there's nothing I can do about the hench except hope nothing bad lands near me or the generic hench flag.

Also, I never have issues getting my melee to attack my called targets, but they costantly ignore their flags and run at anything I target (regardless of whether or not I called), even if the target's over an aggro bubble away. I'd like a "DON'T MOVE OFF YOUR FLAG, EVER, UNTIL I SAY SO AND I MEAN IT THIS TIME" key. :P Koss is the WORST for this. Oddly, Zhed kind of is too.

/not signed

I would prefer to see more parties of people and not H/H.

Heros ruined many parts of the game as far as I see it. As long as they are harder to control and do stupid things there is a chance to get the "Multi Player" aspect of the game back.

"Hero AI improvements "

Do Heroes have AI??? o.0 /Endsarcasm

Meh, what you just stated was the "top of the iceberg" (dutch expression ftw) really... I obviouslt /SIGN this, but I'dd rather see Anet give heroes some basic AI first...

=> Skill usage (Arcane Echo, ... (endless list))
=> AoE recognition (They run out, run in again, run out, run in again, huraay)
=> Make them "realize" the importance of staying within a "shrine" radius.
=> "Relic" running by heroes
=> Etc...

All basic stuff current AI lacks

Maybe not all of us want that, you ever think of that? Before Heroes, all I used was Henchmen, which were nice, they're better than 65% of the community at any rate. Heroes don't rage, leave, have bad attitudes, starter armor, or overaggro much.

When Heroes came out, it was great, because it was just like "customizable henchies, zomgwtf!" which was cool, except I didn't feel like spending a bunch of money to get it runes, insignias, and weapons, so I just left those at default (I beat the entire Nightfall campaign with Koss still using his Dmg 3-7 sword or whatever).

In short, we all don't want to play with other players, because there are a lot of baed players

Yes. Please.
/signed
What i would like to say though is...can we put the flags to a decent size so we can speed-click them without failing? (heroes kept getting rolled over by the burning balls in Catacombs of Kandathrax -.-)

Before heroes I used henchmen. Without either I wouldnt have purchased the game.

At no point am I going to start pugging.


There are still players who enjoy pugging however, they are free to do so. But those who do not want to should not have their style of play limited just so you have someone to play with.

If there arent enough people to pug with maybe that tells you something about how people choose to play the game?


/signed for improvements
/signed for 7 heroes

What we could do with is flags for hench, too.

ANet could improve the AI of heroes and henchmen, they can not however be expected to do the same with players.

In no way do heroes prevent players from forming groups, you are free to form a human party, neither me nor my heroes prevent you from doing so. In fact, the availability of heroes would make it easier to form a mostly human party, filling in the gaps with heroes, that would otherwise be unable to form a full party.

/signed for everything you just said.

I could care less what you want.

WRONG, everyone wants to use their Heros all the time, be it tolevel them up, test a build or just show them off. WHen I first went through NF I HAD to H/H it because I could not get a human team due to the "4" above everyones head being 1 human + 3 hench. Not to mention the fact that there are people out there that feel their heros are better than people (yes I'm talking to pretty much everyone so please, qoute this and post like crazy your flames about how great your Heros are and how people suck)

The game is a "Massive Multi Player" its ment to be social, your lack of social skills is no reason to request better Hero's

Lol

And that right there is the reason why you had to H/H it. No one wanted to group with you A) you "just had to use your Koss" and B) he was under equipt

BTW kids, I do Hero Battles, and yes I've lost many a match due to Hero AI stupidity, but since Hero battles are stupid anyway I dont complain, I only do them waiting for my TA team to get set up.

Incorrect.

GW is not a MMORPG.
GW is a CORPG.


Also there is no need to start insulting anyone. How I enjoy playing a game has nothing to do with my social skills. I dont want to play with random people, not because im anti-social but because

I dont want to spent 20 mins forming a team just to play.
I dont want to have someone quit or go afk mid mission.
I want to be able to quit or go afk mid mission.
I dont want someone who will spend the mission swearing at me.
I dont want someone who will spend the mission talking about his penis.
I dont want someone who will spend the mission spouting racial hate.
I want to be able to enjoy the team build aspect of the game.


But also, just because I dont play with random people doesnt mean I dont play with people.
I play with friends and guild members when they are on and everyone has time free. But a lot of the time that just doesnt happen, even when it does most of the time not everyone wants to do the same thing.


But at the end of the day my purchase of GW was because I could play solo with AI. Thats how I have, do and will spend most of my time playing.
I will spend 0 time pugging however.

If it comes to pugging being the only option I will simply quit.

Hmm the conversation's getting a little away from when I expected.

We've all had a great experience with good players and bad ones with poor players (or lack of players). ANet should provide the broadest, balanced game
them can. If you're having fun with Guild Wars, your way is right, but if you're telling others how to play you're wrong. ANet allowed only 3 heros to help those who play solo, but to still try and stimulate social play. Perhaps another thread about stimulating (but not requiring) social play would be helpful. Instances with more than just the one party in them should help a lot in GW2.

Good ideas on the Hero AI, Draco.

/signed.

One thing I have noticed about Devona is that if I call a target, then change my mind and back off, she just ... keeps going after whatever. The other henches and heroes come back to me, but she is just really determined for some reason.

I could care less what YOU want. No one has to group with other players just because some online social butterfly wants us to.

I would like Koss to stand where I placed him and tank. He ALWAYS breaks aggro. Always. Be nice if there was a way to place a hero and have them stay there.

Not a bad idea, it does get annoying when they run and pull more crap and sit there in AoE and the likes, /signed


also maybe something so that when casters are getting hit THEY DONT RUN AROUND LIKE A CHICKEN WITH THEIR HEAD CUT OFF!! i hate being a melee and running after heros/henchies that are running AWAY from me to get away from something hitting them making it harder for me to save them.

A better defined version of what I started. #6 will help the previous comment - heros will stay closer when they need your help

AI is a difficult problem, I always expect a good player to be better than an AI, but here is something ANet can program:

The key concept is a follow radius - if the hero is outside the follow radius, run to the player, if not fight or heal. The radius changes based on the situation:

1) no enemies in aggro, player moving -> small radius - this will keep you heroes from aggroing while the group is moving

2) no enemies in aggro, player still -> medium radius - this is the time to prepare for battle so the heroes should position themselves according to class and mode
- should also be this way when you flag your heroes, currently when you use the hechy flag they all run to exactly the same spot - making them easy AoE targets

3) hero set to aggressive mode - add to radius
- Your hero is further away from you so he should attack before the rest of the group but he will eventually run back, based on your distance, if you retreat
- Currently, aggressive heroes are far to aggressive - You've all see it: Koss goes off to take on the world by himself, and when you retreat he doesn't care.

4) enemies in aggro bubble, low player health, high hero health - large radius
- this addresses the problem of a single player running because he is taking damage and the hero running too, and not healing or attacking.
- happens to my spell casters all the time, I run in a circle (like I would with
real people) and my heroes stop being of any use and follow me

5) enemies in aggro bubble, high player and high hero health -> medium/large radius hard to tell (for an AI) with this one, they player may just be re-positioning himself, but sometimes a second monster group is coming by and he wants to pull the battle away from them

6) enemies in aggro bubble, high player and low hero health - small radius - heros need help and player can give it - healing, defensive skills - this is a hero retreat

7) enemies in aggro bubble, low player and low hero health (or low party health) - small radius, when the play runs now he's thinking retreat

Aren't flags supposed to do that? As far as I've noticed, most heroes don't move far from where you placed the flags. The only hero I've noticed that generally ignores flags is the Master of Whispers.

In Hero Battles, I would place him on a certain shrine, flag him right there, and he would run around the whole map, all the time. Most annoying thing ever.

If you would rather start a movement to improve the human intelligence of this game, then by all means go for it. Until something is done about the mental deficiency of PuG'ers, PuGs and "Multi Player" will never come back.