I really hope that Guild Wars 2 does not have hero's/hench system. It has really killed grouping. I used to love questing through the quests. After getting the primaries done there would be a huge group of people looking to do the missions with real online players (not hero's). Remember the good old days of multiple groups looking for players to join for that mission?
Now with my hero's decked out with the best runes, skills, weapons, etc... I can basically go into a mob and not even touch my keyboard and they will easily win any battle in PvE. Not much skill there.
It's an online game not a single player "solo" game.
GW/GW2 and hero's/hench
icedutah
Isileth
Actually GW is advertised as a game you can play solo with AI.
I also dont remember those good old days because I never pugged, I purchased the game because I could play solo.
However for GW2 there is a companion system. Where you can take 1 AI char with you, or leave them behind and get a boost to your char.
The game is still meant to be soloable however, most details point towards scaling instances at the moment.
But if your looking for a pure multiplayer online game GW and GW2 are not it. Sorry to break it to you.
I also dont remember those good old days because I never pugged, I purchased the game because I could play solo.
However for GW2 there is a companion system. Where you can take 1 AI char with you, or leave them behind and get a boost to your char.
The game is still meant to be soloable however, most details point towards scaling instances at the moment.
But if your looking for a pure multiplayer online game GW and GW2 are not it. Sorry to break it to you.
JeniM
I personally like H/h as there are no players to PUG with
Apart from the elite areas most towns are deserted.
H/h may of killed PUG's or maybe time did it, or maybe GW's itself did by not being RPG enough (i don't feel like i'm in the game i feel like i'm sat playing it)
I partly agree but then i see the kids spamming their racist/sexist/childish crap and i remeber why i H/h
Apart from the elite areas most towns are deserted.
H/h may of killed PUG's or maybe time did it, or maybe GW's itself did by not being RPG enough (i don't feel like i'm in the game i feel like i'm sat playing it)
I partly agree but then i see the kids spamming their racist/sexist/childish crap and i remeber why i H/h
RhanoctJocosa
I'd love to roll PvE with real people but I can't do that if 90% of my FL have quit GW. As such, hero/hench = me still playing PvE, and I'm sure that's the case for many.
Jake_Steel
I bloody well hope they DO have H/H's as most PUG's are whiny egotistical little children.
Vilaptca
I work full-time, sometimes 7 days a week. I don't have the time to waste sitting around making a group, when I can go right out and just do what I need to do with H/H. Or to redo every mission 5 times because of the incompetence of most PUGs. Seriously, I went through every storyline way faster than I would have if I spent it all in PUGs.
If there isn't some sort of hench system in GW2, I'll probably uninstall and move on to something else that works better with my life.
If there isn't some sort of hench system in GW2, I'll probably uninstall and move on to something else that works better with my life.
Vinraith
I've been playing since 2005, I never did PUG. I played with a friend or two and henchmen. When that became prohibitively difficult, I quit the game. Heroes brought me back to the game by making it possible for me to succeed by playing with friends and AI. Without heroes, GW would just be collecting dust on a shelf somewhere, and I'd have never bought Factions, Nightfall, or EotN.
There will be no H/H in GW2, they've made that clear. Consequently, I won't be buying the game.
It's that simple, really. Lack of real AI party members and persistence are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. It's a shame, too, I've quite enjoyed GW.
There will be no H/H in GW2, they've made that clear. Consequently, I won't be buying the game.
It's that simple, really. Lack of real AI party members and persistence are deal breakers as far as I'm concerned. It's a shame, too, I've quite enjoyed GW.
StormDragonZ
GW2 will be the first single-player MMORPG....
I hope not...
I hope not...
Rhedd
This forum is starting to give me a serious case of deja vu.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by StormDragonZ
GW2 will be the first single-player MMORPG....
|
Anarkii
Yes, most PuGs suck and yes H/H-ing is often easier. And nobody would like to wait hours in an outpost searching for groups instead of doing the quest/mission with H/H.
But...the availability of H/H makes people NOT group, and in turn makes Guild Wars PvE basically a single player game with an online marketplace. That model does work to a good extent. After all, making a one-time payment for Nightfall and playing the campaign with H/H wasn't so much different than playing, say, Neverwinter Nights 2.
But in Guild Wars 2, when they aim to make an immersive and persistent world, the grouping, the community aspect of the game should be encouraged. The old example of players changing the world dynamically(Not the AB-type changing) is also nice.
Solo play isn't necessarily H/H. In an "open" world, you can easily make solo quests, solo missions. I would prefer to see all 'hard' content only possible through grouping with other players.
Thousands of Zheds and thousands of Dunkoros at one spot in the persistent areas would be more than stupid.
I'll buy GW2 regardless of whether its excellent or terrible, so that isn't the question. Just being able to H/H everything makes the multiplayer aspect of it meaningless =/
But...the availability of H/H makes people NOT group, and in turn makes Guild Wars PvE basically a single player game with an online marketplace. That model does work to a good extent. After all, making a one-time payment for Nightfall and playing the campaign with H/H wasn't so much different than playing, say, Neverwinter Nights 2.
But in Guild Wars 2, when they aim to make an immersive and persistent world, the grouping, the community aspect of the game should be encouraged. The old example of players changing the world dynamically(Not the AB-type changing) is also nice.
Solo play isn't necessarily H/H. In an "open" world, you can easily make solo quests, solo missions. I would prefer to see all 'hard' content only possible through grouping with other players.
Thousands of Zheds and thousands of Dunkoros at one spot in the persistent areas would be more than stupid.
I'll buy GW2 regardless of whether its excellent or terrible, so that isn't the question. Just being able to H/H everything makes the multiplayer aspect of it meaningless =/
Isileth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Anarkii
Solo play isn't necessarily H/H. In an "open" world, you can easily make solo quests, solo missions. I would prefer to see all 'hard' content only possible through grouping with other players.
|
Dont think by restricting it like that all those that play solo will suddenly switch. They just wont play.
Meat Axe
PuGing just isn't very high on people's to-do-to-have-fun list. It's often slow and a pain, with immature idiots spamming their rude, derogatory remarks, or with people in a late mission not having learned how to play the game.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the multiplayer aspect of this game is far from dead. Just because people aren't PuGing doesn't mean they're playing solo. Most people would prefer to play with friends, people they actually know, or with guild mates. And many people do do just that.
Personally, I like the option of choosing heroes and henchmen to come along. I don't often play with other players, because my guild generally is doing something that I am not up to, or that I don't feel like doing, and the two friends I introduced to the game barely ever play. I do occasionally play with my brother and his girlfriend.
Personally, although I am a bit disappointed in the fact that there will be no heroes or henches in GW2, I do like the fact that ANet is still considering those of us who prefer to play solo if there is no option to play with our friends, and are planning on making GW2 completely soloable. And maybe venturing out by myself won't be such a bad thing. I've been playing presearing recently, Charr hunting with the only companionship being my dog, and it can actually be rather fun and exciting. I'm looking forward to feeling that in GW2, or at least in the later stages of the game when things get a bit tougher.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the multiplayer aspect of this game is far from dead. Just because people aren't PuGing doesn't mean they're playing solo. Most people would prefer to play with friends, people they actually know, or with guild mates. And many people do do just that.
Personally, I like the option of choosing heroes and henchmen to come along. I don't often play with other players, because my guild generally is doing something that I am not up to, or that I don't feel like doing, and the two friends I introduced to the game barely ever play. I do occasionally play with my brother and his girlfriend.
Personally, although I am a bit disappointed in the fact that there will be no heroes or henches in GW2, I do like the fact that ANet is still considering those of us who prefer to play solo if there is no option to play with our friends, and are planning on making GW2 completely soloable. And maybe venturing out by myself won't be such a bad thing. I've been playing presearing recently, Charr hunting with the only companionship being my dog, and it can actually be rather fun and exciting. I'm looking forward to feeling that in GW2, or at least in the later stages of the game when things get a bit tougher.
Bazompora
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by icedutah
Now with my hero's decked out with the best runes, skills, weapons, etc... I can basically go into a mob and not even touch my keyboard and they will easily win any battle in PvE. Not much skill there.
|
Lonesamurai
I remember those "good ol' days" in beta when we didn't have heroes and hench and could never find a full party
Gun Pierson
The need for pugging was for me one of the bad things of those good old days. I admit I had some good times with pugs, but those are a minority, wasted so much time.
I really hope they keep heroes one way or the other. It's brilliant and unique. If not, I hope they give us the option to play with 7 heroes in GW1 or solo prowes in GW2.
There are plenty of mmo's out there where you can play with other people. But how many give you the option to customize a 'whole' team and play with that team?
Also, I know every class now, every skill. Heroes are an extention of myself. Making (team and synergy) builds is a big part of the fun for me. If in GW2, we'll only have 1 or 2 bars to manage, it's clearly a step back imo.
I really hope they keep heroes one way or the other. It's brilliant and unique. If not, I hope they give us the option to play with 7 heroes in GW1 or solo prowes in GW2.
There are plenty of mmo's out there where you can play with other people. But how many give you the option to customize a 'whole' team and play with that team?
Also, I know every class now, every skill. Heroes are an extention of myself. Making (team and synergy) builds is a big part of the fun for me. If in GW2, we'll only have 1 or 2 bars to manage, it's clearly a step back imo.
Numa Pompilius
No heroes/henches, no deal.
The solo-ability was why I got GW to start with. I've not changed my mind. The H/H system is the single best feature of GW, and removing it in GW2 would make GW2 uninteresting to me.
The solo-ability was why I got GW to start with. I've not changed my mind. The H/H system is the single best feature of GW, and removing it in GW2 would make GW2 uninteresting to me.
JeniM
too bad Anet wont tell us spit. With everything GW related the best source of infomation is another player over wiki. Remeber GW:EN even after the sneak peak there was very little info on anything past the sneak peak area and that was a week. I really feel sorry for the people that are excited about GW2 already and can't wait for the next bit of news. If theres one thing anet does well it's not comunicating with us
Sirius-NZ
There is no indication that GW2 will not be soloable.
Isileth
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ
There is no indication that GW2 will not be soloable.
|
A lot of the fun and enjoyment I have is playing with team builds and having other builds to interact with.
In solo games you always need to cover everything, a little bit of healing, a little bit of damage and a little bit of support. Never interests me.
Longasc
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
I remember those "good ol' days" in beta when we didn't have heroes and hench and could never find a full party
|
Heroes have advantages. And they are not responsible for the lack of grouping.
If we had no heroes or henchies at all... we would have to mess with PUGs. We would have troubles to find people for many quests and missions. We could not fill up with heroes.
GW1 would not work without henchmen. Heroes are nothing else, just better henchmen.
I am perfectly fine to play with 2-3 friends and not having to socialize with every random person that would be needed to fill up a group.
Lonesamurai
The only time I have people in my group i don;t know is GvG guests or newbies in presear
jezz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vilaptca
I work full-time, sometimes 7 days a week. I don't have the time to waste sitting around making a group, when I can go right out and just do what I need to do with H/H. Or to redo every mission 5 times because of the incompetence of most PUGs. Seriously, I went through every storyline way faster than I would have if I spent it all in PUGs.
If there isn't some sort of hench system in GW2, I'll probably uninstall and move on to something else that works better with my life. |
jury is out on GW2 until they release info on it..may or may not get it...depends on this companion system..
if it werent for H/H i would of quit GW a long time ago..
nightwatchman
Good old days = a dozen 6/8 teams moaning that there weren't any monks around.
They weren't all that good.
They weren't all that good.
Lord Feathers
If GW2 was set up so you had to group with folks in-order to play it, I'd stop playing. I enjoy my guild mates and that's as far as I would go grouping. The game goes to the " MUST HAVE " this in-order to play and mentality of most PUG groups then I'm done playing. Friends, guild mates, or my heros the rest can do whatever they like so long as they don't bother me. 95% of every PUG I've ever been in was a complete failure 
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Isileth
In solo games you always need to cover everything, a little bit of healing, a little bit of damage and a little bit of support. Never interests me.
|
I understand the fun in making team builds, but it's not so hot starting out with expectations that ANet would make us have to play some sort of nasty hybrid.
Dkraftwerk
The only reason I enjoy having heroes/henchman now is that it gives me the ability to solo. I don't really care for having them along and would rather play completely solo or with a friend or two along. In essence, if GW2 gives me the option to play totally solo (which right now it states they will) or play with a group, then I'm happy.
On another note, what I would love is if this sidekick henchman you can take along could be customizable in the same way a hero is. Meaning you could make him/her any profession you'd like and put any skills you'd like into their bar.
On another note, what I would love is if this sidekick henchman you can take along could be customizable in the same way a hero is. Meaning you could make him/her any profession you'd like and put any skills you'd like into their bar.
lyra_song
They should build a game with no reason to WANT to play solo, but still leave the option there.
Feurin Longcastle
Perhaps I'm the only one who actually laments the loss of PuGs. I used to do it very frequently, and my experiences ranged from pleasant to downright frustrating. Regardless, the interaction was always interesting. There was a very interactive environment that died suddenly with Nightfall's release, and I do miss that.
Some of my more memorable experiences have been with PuGs. I can't really remember a particularly memorable H/H run.
Some of my more memorable experiences have been with PuGs. I can't really remember a particularly memorable H/H run.
Horus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lyra_song
They should build a game with no reason to WANT to play solo, but still leave the option there.
|
Loviatar
[QUOTE]
grouping was dead due to asshats long before heroes and even the brain dead henchies were better.
1 companion according to multiple interviews NOT taking up a group slot and yes solo friendly as well
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by icedutah
I really hope that Guild Wars 2 does not have hero's/hench system. It has really killed grouping.
|
1 companion according to multiple interviews NOT taking up a group slot and yes solo friendly as well
Vinraith
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
That never really popped into my mind playing Diablo, or Oblivion, or Morrowind, or Hellgate: London. It all depends on how the game is set up: If the combat and skill set up is taken straight out of GW then yes it will be boring. Of course, having that would be a bad idea because it adds less incentive to go from GW1 to GW2. From what ANet has stated, things are going to be a lot more interesting, especially with the "special moves" and what not.
I understand the fun in making team builds, but it's not so hot starting out with expectations that ANet would make us have to play some sort of nasty hybrid. |
1. Instancing across the entire game
2. Hero/Henchmen dynamic
3. The Skill system
4. A low level cap with the bulk of the game set beyond max level
Lose any of those things and it becomes more like the other games in the genre, and consequently easier to dismiss in favor of something else. They're removing at least the first two, as well as four, and altering three in a way that doesn't sound at all good to me. That spells "run of the mill MMORPG" to me, a genre I don't play and a mediocre one at that.
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lyra_song
They should build a game with no reason to WANT to play solo, but still leave the option there.
|
The Great Al
I'd also rather not have an emphasis on H/H. I'd get rid of heroes entirely, and just have henchmen. That way, if towns are empty, or people can't find a party for a specific quest, they can use henchmen, but if people are able and willing, they should be looking towards using humans first. It's ridiculous how elitist the people here are. Yes, there's a lot of bad PUGs, but there's a lot of good ones, too.
lyra_song
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gli
I'd rather have a game with no reason to WANT to play teamed up, but still having the option.
|
-Multiplayer
-Online
-Team based combat
You may as well be be playing a 1-player RPG offline.
MMOGs have a richer (positive and negative) experience with the added dimension of community, socialization, with a world populated by players, and not just mindless NPCs.
I know people have had bad experiences with PUGs, but that shouldn't be a factor when designing a game where social interaction is important.
tmr819
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gli
I'd rather have a game with no reason to WANT to play teamed up, but still having the option.
|
I find it strange that people lament the loss of the PUG. What has been happening in game is that players have a choice between PUG-ing, soloing, or leaving the game altogether for something else. That people are opting for soloing or small guild/friend groups versus PUGs in vast numbers should make -- ding! -- a light bulb go off for ArenaNet's GW2 developers and designers.
If GW2 ends up looking just like WoW, GW2 will fail. I cannot imagine GW2 will look like WoW, however. It's looking more like a hybrid mutant GW1-marries-WOW-and-has-a-baby kind of thing. Kinda scary, actually. Brrr.
Mordakai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmr819
If GW2 ends up looking just like WoW, GW2 will fail. I cannot imagine GW2 will look like WoW, however. It's looking more like a hybrid mutant GW1-marries-WOW-and-has-a-baby kind of thing. Kinda scary, actually. Brrr.
|
If they can make a game better than WoW, but with no monthly fee:
Gli
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by lyra_song
But that defeats the purpose of being:
-Multiplayer -Online -Team based combat You may as well be be playing a 1-player RPG offline. MMOGs have a richer (positive and negative) experience with the added dimension of community, socialization, with a world populated by players, and not just mindless NPCs. I know people have had bad experiences with PUGs, but that shouldn't be a factor when designing a game where social interaction is important. |
I've never considered GW to be anything more than a very advanced Diablo II clone with a GUI chatroom. I played Diablo II for quite a while, exclusively with RL friends in passworded games. GW can be played exactly the same, without even the need to put a password on your game. Party up in the guild hall, travel to an outpost where a lot of weird characters with silly names in blue text run around for some obscure reason, locate your exit or mission trigger, and off you go! Or completely alone with competent AI support, if no friends are online. I don't actually have any bad experiences with PUGs. The few times I tried, it wasn't too bad. It's just not my thing though. I wouldn't make a good PUGger either, because I'm liable to walk away from the keyboard at the drop of a hat. Because, almost everything happening around me at home is much more important than some silly game I happen to be playing. People would hate me if I PUGged with them.
And the good thing about GW is, that approach actually works just as well a going for the social interaction and community. It would be a shame to throw that away.
Sparda
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vinraith
The problem is that, without the party dynamic to make it different, they have to compete (in my mind anyway) with Morrowind, Oblivion, Diablo etc. GW is a great game because it's different from any other action RPG I've played. The more they make it like other games I adore, the more flawed it looks, simply because it's trying to do what they do only not as well. To my mind, what makes GW unique is:
1. Instancing across the entire game 2. Hero/Henchmen dynamic 3. The Skill system 4. A low level cap with the bulk of the game set beyond max level Lose any of those things and it becomes more like the other games in the genre, and consequently easier to dismiss in favor of something else. They're removing at least the first two, as well as four, and altering three in a way that doesn't sound at all good to me. That spells "run of the mill MMORPG" to me, a genre I don't play and a mediocre one at that. |
GW isn't the next clone look alike in the world.
It was and still is a strong new concept, we wil not see another of GW course it's to new oldschool MMo's are fixed in our heads it makes money and that is what most game studio's want.
WoW is sure of it's monthly Tax GW on the other hand is without tax so Anet hasn't such a big income as Blizzard.
Master Knightfall
Thing is I can solo without henchies in my OFFline rpgs like Oblivion and Morrowind and Daggerfall and Diablo 2 and those likes. In these online games soloing is boring and GW is the first game that made soloing fun to me and I've played them all. I remember the many hours just sitting there with only my pet wolf as a shaman in Everquest killing Ice Giants over an over. While the loot was good the fun value was nill.
Before heroes I had henchies and I used them just as much as I use my heroes now, but, my heroes are my pride and joy. They are my extention and synergy of the four of us is awesome. Even sometimes in hard mode areas I don't even have to fight I've built my heroes up so well and that is FUN to me building the ultimate combination of heroes.
I will not be happy with just a companion or having to pug in GW2 if that is all they offer. My preference would be to continue to have heroes and henchies and your instances difficulties would be based on how many you brought instead of static like it is now. Sort of a Nightmare and Hell level of difficulty depending on the number of heroes and henchies/companions you brought with you an of course the normal difficulty being just you by yourself.
Anet you better listen, don't take our heroes and henchies away or you're going to see a great loss of sales because you didn't listen to the majority of us.
Before heroes I had henchies and I used them just as much as I use my heroes now, but, my heroes are my pride and joy. They are my extention and synergy of the four of us is awesome. Even sometimes in hard mode areas I don't even have to fight I've built my heroes up so well and that is FUN to me building the ultimate combination of heroes.
I will not be happy with just a companion or having to pug in GW2 if that is all they offer. My preference would be to continue to have heroes and henchies and your instances difficulties would be based on how many you brought instead of static like it is now. Sort of a Nightmare and Hell level of difficulty depending on the number of heroes and henchies/companions you brought with you an of course the normal difficulty being just you by yourself.
Anet you better listen, don't take our heroes and henchies away or you're going to see a great loss of sales because you didn't listen to the majority of us.