What would do to make Hard Mode more attractive?

Kamara

Kamara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ponie Hill, Lion's Arch International

Blinkie Kaulitz Armie

E/

17 Jan 2008 at 06:55 - 41
I already do a fair bit of HM on a semi-regular basis and this is what I most often whine about

* NPCs like EotN NPCs that auto-rez. Sure it would make things like auto-rez Togo not make sense, but hey. Who needs sense? Why can't we just use a rez sig on him? <_<. Rurik was a PITA in the Surmia. Got it in the end but it was a lot of frustration. Hard mode should be hard not frustrating. There's a difference ^_^

* Vanquish chest with a nice gold weapon / green that's relevant to the area. Someone suggested consumables, this sounds good. While I don't use many myself it would be nice if a gold + a consumable dropped per zone or something ranging from rez scrolls all the way to the good stuff.

* Merchants in explorables. Salvaging everything is not always the answer. Sometimes I just want raw cash.

Sergeant of Marines

Sergeant of Marines

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

Japan

[트두므s], Guild Leader

Mo/

17 Jan 2008 at 07:20 - 42
Make it harder...maybe a challenge

vaxmor

vaxmor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ascalon

R/

17 Jan 2008 at 07:22 - 43
unique (green) items which only drop in HM.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

17 Jan 2008 at 07:44 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by I MP I
Hate to admit it, but this is undoubtedly correct. Haven't seen evidence that says otherwise.
It would be cool to prove him (and you) wrong on next update

---

Aside from "it should be hard mode, not a power creep easy mode, damnit (aka, remove consumables and pve skills from HM (preferably whole game))".

There was this idea to give prophecies bosses in hm some unique greens (mursaat skins in green, magmas skins in green, etc ..) ... but that would just wont do any good for economy and would be incentive to FARM hm, not to PLAY it.

As are all reward related suggestions: it would increase farming appeal, but not playing for fun appeal.

Turtle222

Turtle222

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

:D:D

D/W

17 Jan 2008 at 11:01 - 45
i say let it be and make GW2 better.

Sirius-NZ

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

17 Jan 2008 at 11:06 - 46
They could apply some fairly good, but simple fixes in the meantime. GW2 isn't coming out in a couple weeks or anything.

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

17 Jan 2008 at 11:14 - 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Allow 7 Heroes. It'll make HM more played, yes, which answers the original question.
QFT.
Also players should be more eager to publish their HM builds. Teach how to play HM so more players will enjoy it (I know this may be hard because those who don't enjoy it mostly want to use the same power build to rampage the whole map - but still).

Along with better rewards this should encourage people to play HM

Esan

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

17 Jan 2008 at 12:41 - 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box
Also players should be more eager to publish their HM builds. Teach how to play HM so more players will enjoy it
Pretty much anything half decent works. Some strategies and builds are more effective than others; discovering and tuning these builds is half the fun of HM. But mostly it is a matter of keeping your cool, watching the aggro, and spreading out for AoE.

Whiskeyjack

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

KOFU

17 Jan 2008 at 13:14 - 49
Make PvE skills/consumables unusable in HM, also improve ai especially in regards to attacking "tank" characters, so that if a character is dealing no damage and not healing teammates ai enemies should ignore them.

Edit. Chest drops should always be gold in HM.

sterbenx2

sterbenx2

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

New England

Lunatic Legion

N/

17 Jan 2008 at 13:35 - 50
HM build:
Myself: N/Mo-16 Curse, 13 (i think) Soul Reaping, rest protect prayer-Spiteful Spirit, Insidious Parasite, Parasitic Bond, Mark of Pain, Spinal Shivers, Rend Enchants, Pain Inverter, Rebirth

Olias and Whispers N/Mo 16 Death, 10 Heal, 9 Soul Reaping - Jagged Horror, Bone Fiend, Heal Area, Grenths Balance, Taste of Death, Death Nova, Signet of Sorrow, Rebirth
Blondstained insig on hats, survivor insigs on rest.

All Necros have Cold dmg weaps. important!!!

Prot monk with Shield of regen , don't remember the whole build

Did Snake Dance, Dreadnoughts and Lonar's with this setup. Added both Warriors and both Monks in Camp Rankor.

there, I shared me HM build. In NM I don't even bring a rez on myself.. not really needed I go 2nd mez for Arcane Echo

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

17 Jan 2008 at 13:40 - 51
Want to make hard mode AI better? Stop allowing pulling to work. Why are these Kournan guards I'm killing right now in HM allowing a few of their members at a time run off and die to my bloodthirsty party? Pulling isn't realistic, and it's the biggest reason why AI in this game is bad/exploitable.

Shadow Slave

Shadow Slave

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

..My home away from home..

Currently looking ~

N/

17 Jan 2008 at 13:45 - 52
You realise you can just ...you know...not use PVE skills and Consumables right..?

More merchants in explorable?

Vanquish Chest?

7 Heroes?

Yes Please.

sterbenx2

sterbenx2

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

New England

Lunatic Legion

N/

17 Jan 2008 at 13:51 - 53
7 heroes would make hard mode more like observer mode as you wouldn't really need to do anything at all!

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

17 Jan 2008 at 13:56 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slave
You realise you can just ...you know...not use PVE skills and Consumables right..?
New ultra hardmode!

Who needs smart opponents? Who needs smart game play? We don't!

Run bad builds and suck intentionally! Forget all tactics! If any skill is remotely useful, don't put it on your bar! Challenge awaits you in every area!

Zydonis

Zydonis

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

Loners United [CULT]

R/

17 Jan 2008 at 13:56 - 55
HM is fine the way it is. People are going to whine about something no matter how easy it's made anyways.

The only reasonable suggestion in my opinion was the vanquish chest.

Uber Mass

Uber Mass

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Netherlands

retired from gw [agro] still ftw

W/

17 Jan 2008 at 14:11 - 56
HM is fine as it is... and no chest eather or you want to give all legendary vanquishers a chest wich they can open 121 times?

Wish Swiftdeath

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mo/W

17 Jan 2008 at 14:30 - 57
All that anet need to do is increase the rewards...

this means more drops
more money for vanquishing
more money for missions

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

17 Jan 2008 at 15:03 - 58
.-.

i still like the idea of actually making it hard.

Like: when you zone into a Hard Mode zone, monster mobs builds change into builds which are based on your team build. Designed to counter you.

garethporlest18

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

17 Jan 2008 at 15:05 - 59
Making it easy for me. Hard for everyone else, easy for me. I wouldn't mind if all the monsters were easy but there were double to kill. As long as they were easy, rather have tedious than challenging.

erfweiss

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Cold Black Eyes

W/A

17 Jan 2008 at 15:41 - 60
Hard mode isn't that bad. It just takes time to use tactics and to adapt to the environment given to you.

(Vanquished one continent, Guardian on all 3).

aapo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

17 Jan 2008 at 15:52 - 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longasc
1.) remove all consumables
2.) remove all PvE skills

This would make hard mode vanquishing a bit more interesting.
- Have you tried 1.) not using consumables and 2.) not using PvE skills in hard mode, ever? If you have, how was it?

gloria vander belt

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

Dragons Lair

United Farmers Of Europe[FOE]

W/

17 Jan 2008 at 15:54 - 62
lemme see, Hard Mode doesnt need to be made more attractive, its for us players who acctually want a challenge, the titles are attractive and the challenge is even more attractive, so GG

stretchs

stretchs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

Untimely Demise [Err了] - SOHK

17 Jan 2008 at 16:13 - 63
I do like the idea of a chest, as for the QQ about people that have already done it, that happened with UW and FoW as well so less QQ more intelligent suggestions.

As for making it more attractive, the 7 hero idea would assist people in smaller guilds/less active people to try it. Even more gold at the end isnt so bad, the green drops for Proph and upgrading the low level greens i dont like the idea of though, just brings in more greens that 1/2 whine about and 1/2 clamor over.

In the end, the only thing that makes people want to do more things in gw are more loot, and then in some cases more titles.

If anet released some info that if you got Legendary in those 2 HM areas you would get X in GW2, it would create a massive craze of people that want to vanquish things

Balan Makki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

17 Jan 2008 at 16:34 - 64
Once Vanquished, an area should become Conquered Mode, all Mob fear you except bosses. The bosses get a massive buff and grow three times in size. Conquered areas would requiring a party of 12-20, no henchies allowed, only heroes.

Shadow Slave

Shadow Slave

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

..My home away from home..

Currently looking ~

N/

17 Jan 2008 at 16:42 - 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
New ultra hardmode!

Who needs smart opponents? Who needs smart game play? We don't!

Run bad builds and suck intentionally! Forget all tactics! If any skill is remotely useful, don't put it on your bar! Challenge awaits you in every area!
I C WhuT U did Thar...

However...

My comment was merely aimed at those who think that in order to 'make Hard Mode more attractive', we should stop the use of PVE skills & Consumables.

-If that would seriously make HM more attractive, then just dont use them

If this is the direction people want to take HM, I would much rather some effort go into it & making HM more attractive - not simply banning the use of these skills etc.

It would be far more 'attractive' imo if they buff/debuff *certain* existing PVE skills/consumables to promote new gameplay....or create some new skills we can put into use. ('HM only' perhaps?)

This is merely a suggestion. I would still like to see various rewards being implemented.

Pandora's box

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

17 Jan 2008 at 21:23 - 66
Hmm, forgot to mention the AI of the minnions, especially when controlled by a hero - seems like their brains are still dead because they tend to aggro everything in the neighbourhood. And because of their slowness they even aggro groups you already passed ages ago. In HM this can be fatal. Should this be changed or is it the nature of these beings and an should it be considered a challenge?

Longasc

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

17 Jan 2008 at 21:47 - 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Slave
My comment was merely aimed at those who think that in order to 'make Hard Mode more attractive', we should stop the use of PVE skills & Consumables.

-If that would seriously make HM more attractive, then just dont use them
No, this does not work.

No thinking person can enjoy dumbing down himself to play inefficient and suck intentionally. Handicaps and limits to yourself work in golf where it is a competition between players, but not between players and AI.

About the 7 heroes, with 7 heroes I would not even have to play myself anymore at all. I would not even have to think the slightest which 3 to pick.

This would be an incredibly bad game design.
A lot of appeal gets lost if the solution to everything is to turn into a BEAR.

Even Joe Underaverage will get bored after a while after doing all the URSANWAY.


We need a better PvE experience, and introducing a HARD mode and then introducing items to make it EASY again is bizarre. We already have a normal mode that has been made so easy that you can hardly fail anymore at all.

The game does not encourage smart gameplay anymore, people can suck forever and still make it. This is bad for the players and the game alike. Playing Barbie with fancy gear and armors can only keep simple minds playing for longer periods.

That powerful potions are back and now named consumables is just awful. What is next, potion quaffing like in Diablo 2?


What is wrong with the players if they need

- IMBA URSAN BLESSING (a whole build/skill bar that can do next to anything)
- CONSUMABLES
- MORE CONSUMABLES

to find a game that is not too hard or demanding more enjoyable?


ANet needs to realize that they ultra easy game design creates legions of abysmal players that need Sucker's Blessing to enjoy a totally dumbed down game. If GW2 starts out with Forms like Ursan like GW1 does right now, it is doomed from the very beginning to the dumbest low-minded grind ever.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Jan 2008 at 21:53 - 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longasc
ANet needs to realize that they ultra easy game design creates legions of abysmal players that need Sucker's Blessing to enjoy a totally dumbed down game. If GW2 starts out with Forms like Ursan like GW1 does right now, it is doomed from the very beginning to the dumbest low-minded grind ever.
It's much more damaging when there's no one to tell you how overpowered the skill is. When you play on "I'm Too Young To Die" in Doom, you know that you're on the easiest difficulty. Not so much with Ursan.

As to making Hard Mode more attractive, I'd make the AI stupid. This would be a step up from the "blatantly retarded" setting that they're set on at the moment (Blinding Flash on my Ele? k.)

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

17 Jan 2008 at 21:55 - 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by aapo
- Have you tried 1.) not using consumables and 2.) not using PvE skills in hard mode, ever? If you have, how was it?
That's what I do, and although it's a bit harder, it's still nowhere near challenging.

Painbringer

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

17 Jan 2008 at 22:02 - 70
2) Also, How about adding an Vanquish chest for areas of over 100 or 200 creatures? Maybe spawn a boss after vanquish that will trigger the chest when he dies??

A zkey appears in your inventory after vanquishing a territory with 100 or more creatures


And YES to gold items only in chests in HM how about a small chance to get gold only like treasure chest do?

Jensy

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

18 Jan 2008 at 00:55 - 71
Right now, I have vanquished elona, and I'm sitting at 19/33 on Cantha (we just started last week). I do all of this with myself as a Curses nec (SS, barbs, MoP, SOLS, desecrate enchant, (open slot saved for something key to the area, usually enfeeble or gaze of contempt), pain inverter and rez.

I run N/Rt Livia (OAhiYwh8gtJeSzJ3wccGNvYA) and N/Rt Olias (OAhjUsGaoOL1qAaATINp2V1LGA) + WoH/Prot Tahl.

My vanquishing partner is a BHA ranger, who brings along 2 SavHeat eles, with the last slot open for whatever we feel will work in the area. Two MM's can be hilarious, once you hex your target with Barbs and MoP. Just stand back and watch the yellow numbers fly. We haven't had any problems with this set up, and I really wouldn't *want* HM made any easier. With the builds we take, it feels more like NM anyway o_O

I don't really know how to make HM more attractive. For me, it's fun and I am enjoying getting the titles. The extra gold awards in eotn that one weekend were awesome. More gold, is what I would suggest.

Master Sword Keeper

Master Sword Keeper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dead Isle

Farmers Of Woe [FoW]

W/

18 Jan 2008 at 01:52 - 72
Chest drops = Golds 99%