The Problem: The bite of bad PUGs, no one grouping because they all have heros
Rewards are a much better motivator than punishment, the intent of this title is not to harm solo players, but the rewards should be something a solo player wants.
The Team Player Title track:
You gain along this track with the experience others gain while teamed with you
Rewards: perhaps unlocking hero PvE skills, maybe one extra hero slot at the top title. Plus others will be more willing to group with you if you are high in this title
New:The Team Player Title Track
Draco Stormfront
MithranArkanere
Hm... experience other gain is the key.
Dead party members do not gain experience.
Dead party members do not gain experience.
payne
can see a floor with this....service runners...they will max this out just because people will want missions runs and they can massively cash in on it...nice idea to get more PUG groups...if you want this to work though you would have to remove ursan...it is wrecking PUG now
^
^
{IceFire}
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Originally Posted by payne
if you want this to work though you would have to remove ursan...it is wrecking PUG now
^ |
Isileth
Why a reward for playing with others?
GW is advertised as a game you can play with others or solo with AI.
Why then only reward one style of play?
I also dont use h/h because pugging doesnt give me enough rewards, but because I dont want to pug. Im not the only one in this, a lot of people purchased the game because they could go with AI, a lot of players tried pugging and moved onto h/h.
One of my friends I introduced to GW for example, he started off pugging but found he hated it and switched to h/h.
Its nothing to do with rewards, its to do with pugging not being fun. (Along with a lot of other things such as time to form teams)
GW is advertised as a game you can play with others or solo with AI.
Why then only reward one style of play?
I also dont use h/h because pugging doesnt give me enough rewards, but because I dont want to pug. Im not the only one in this, a lot of people purchased the game because they could go with AI, a lot of players tried pugging and moved onto h/h.
One of my friends I introduced to GW for example, he started off pugging but found he hated it and switched to h/h.
Its nothing to do with rewards, its to do with pugging not being fun. (Along with a lot of other things such as time to form teams)
Shayne Hawke
/notsigned. I see this as extremely broken.
Bolded is at least one reason why your idea fails.
The second idea to me is that you make no restrictions on quest rewards. Solution: no experience gain from quests. Possible exceptions might need to be made for places like FoW or UW, but I can't be sure of this.
Big idea why this fails: SS/LB runs. You have a team of eight players that are buffed to the max wiping out large scale numbers of enemies with ease. There's lots of experience to be gained by your teammates, which means your level in this title will grow fast.
I'm not 100% sure about these arguments, because your idea of the title sounds like progress is made when all teammates gain experience (which at max would be the experience you gained x7) rather than the experience you gain, which are two very different numbers. The way it worked would also be a great concern with quest rewards, as I've already mentioned.
What I'd suggest is that the distance you gain in the title is determined by the experience you gain from killing mobs in a group...
Oh, wait, that would be too much like showing progress past the level cap, an idea that's failed in support many times before.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draco Stormfront
The Problem: The bite of bad PUGs, no one grouping because they all have heros
Rewards are a much better motivator than punishment, the intent of this title is not to harm solo players, but the rewards should be something a solo player wants. The Team Player Title track: You gain along this track with the experience others gain while teamed with you Rewards: perhaps unlocking hero PvE skills, maybe one extra hero slot at the top title. Plus others will be more willing to group with you if you are high in this title |
The second idea to me is that you make no restrictions on quest rewards. Solution: no experience gain from quests. Possible exceptions might need to be made for places like FoW or UW, but I can't be sure of this.
Big idea why this fails: SS/LB runs. You have a team of eight players that are buffed to the max wiping out large scale numbers of enemies with ease. There's lots of experience to be gained by your teammates, which means your level in this title will grow fast.
I'm not 100% sure about these arguments, because your idea of the title sounds like progress is made when all teammates gain experience (which at max would be the experience you gained x7) rather than the experience you gain, which are two very different numbers. The way it worked would also be a great concern with quest rewards, as I've already mentioned.
What I'd suggest is that the distance you gain in the title is determined by the experience you gain from killing mobs in a group...
Oh, wait, that would be too much like showing progress past the level cap, an idea that's failed in support many times before.
Dev121
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Originally Posted by {IceFire}
qq more please
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Its wrecking everything!
Draco Stormfront
One of the reasons PUGs are getting worse, is the good players can make it with just heros, and the bad players can't - again, I'm not trying to damage solo play, but motive more social play. If this was implemented, solo players should still be able to do everything - they probable need to get the same rewards but another more costly way. The point is PUG has disadvantages, this is to help balance them.
Experience from quest - gained when completed in an instance, not when you get the reward
Experience from quest - gained when completed in an instance, not when you get the reward
Stormlord Alex
If you want to motivate PuGing, introduce a basic IQ test before you can play the game, and/or disable Mending, Flare, Power Shot etc. in groups.
Idiots and crap players deter people from PuGing, and always will untill we can remove bad players from our experience.
Idiots and crap players deter people from PuGing, and always will untill we can remove bad players from our experience.
{IceFire}
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Originally Posted by DeVaNeY121
QQ
Its wrecking everything! |
You can't see me
There's no reason to reward one playstyle over another, period.
Unless this idea introduces a partner title for playing with heros and henchman, this idea fails.
Unless this idea introduces a partner title for playing with heros and henchman, this idea fails.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by {IceFire}
qq more please
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/not-signed
I REFUSE to play UBway for this.
Vilaptca
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draco Stormfront
Rewards: perhaps unlocking hero PvE skills, maybe one extra hero slot at the top title. Plus others will be more willing to group with you if you are high in this title
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Is this a joke?
To try and encourage people to play with other people we will reward them with more heroes.
That goes completely against what you are suggesting.
Vinraith
And grouping should be artificially encouraged... why again?
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vilaptca
To try and encourage people to play with other people we will reward them with more heroes.
That goes completely against what you are suggesting. |
I might agree with giving rewards to those who party, but while I'm not sure what kind of rewards, an additional hero slot is certainly not it. I don't like saying this, and it goes against everything I stand for, but... this idea is dumb.
hurdlebeast
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
If you want to motivate PuGing, introduce a basic IQ test before you can play the game, and/or disable Mending, Flare, Power Shot etc. in groups.
Idiots and crap players deter people from PuGing, and always will untill we can remove bad players from our experience. |
simple. unlock one more hero when you max title.
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draco Stormfront
The point is PUG has disadvantages, this is to help balance them.
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Or are you really suggesting that having
8 player controlled builds
24 PvE skills
8 player controlled chars
is a disadvantage?
Over
4 player controlled builds
3 PvE skills
1 player controlled char
4 henchmen (with less than 8 skills on their bar, useless builds, no energy management, no condition removal on the monk etc)
The inability for 7/8 chars to deal with AoE
The list goes on but I think you get the point...
When compared to a team of 8 players h/h is vastly disadvantaged, not the other way round.
MirkoTeran
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Originally Posted by Isileth
You are joking right?
Or are you really suggesting that having 8 player controlled builds 24 PvE skills 8 player controlled chars is a disadvantage? Over 4 player controlled builds 3 PvE skills 1 player controlled char 4 henchmen (with less than 8 skills on their bar, useless builds, no energy management, no condition removal on the monk etc) The inability for 7/8 chars to deal with AoE The list goes on but I think you get the point... When compared to a team of 8 players h/h is vastly disadvantaged, not the other way round. |
And to the OP: /notsigned... its broken on so many levels...
Jedimagician
this title would be easy to obtain if they implemented it.... hero fast faction farming: bring two people along and they each get 2000exp ~every minute: you get title track, they get title track
Isileth
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Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
What you describe is Guild group vs H/H, not PUG vs H/H.
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In pugs you still have 8 changeable builds.
8 player controlled chars
24 PvE skills
That still applies to a PuG.
Now while you obviousely wont have all of that all the time, no matter what in h/h you can never have that.
The disadvantage is still there.
~ Dan ~
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
If you want to motivate PuGing, introduce a basic IQ test before you can play the game, and/or disable Mending, Flare, Power Shot etc. in groups.
Idiots and crap players deter people from PuGing, and always will untill we can remove bad players from our experience. |
/not signed
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draco Stormfront
Rewards: perhaps unlocking hero PvE skills, maybe one extra hero slot at the top title. Plus others will be more willing to group with you if you are high in this title
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It would be a lot easier to just reward the title, by giving a point for every mission or dungeon you complete while inside a full 8 man human PUG (Unless it requires one hero and then it reverts to 7 humans)!
Normal mode.
Rank 1: The number of missions or dungeons throughout all the games.
Hard mode.
Rank 2: Double that.
Rank 3: Tripple that.
Rank 4: etc etc etc.
Basically replaying the game over and over for each rank! You could just re-play the same dungeon over and over and over again, but thats your choice!
The only issue is that if you reward points for missions, a player could just replay the easiest mission or dungeon over and over again, so it could take some working out.
MithranArkanere
Hehehe... sounds fine to me, if a bunch of mad guys want to replay Gates of Kryta again and again, let them waste their time, I'll stick making each the dungeons and missions.
Ah! And such a title MUST be account wide, because it's the player the one that chooses to tag with others, not the character.
And making a mission for the first time would count more for the title.
But I would take out the Istan, Shing Jea and Ascalon missions.
Specially Chackbeck village.
The title could give one pint for each ally you tag with while making missions.
That is, between 1 and 11 points (For 12 player elite missions).
Ah! And such a title MUST be account wide, because it's the player the one that chooses to tag with others, not the character.
And making a mission for the first time would count more for the title.
But I would take out the Istan, Shing Jea and Ascalon missions.
Specially Chackbeck village.
The title could give one pint for each ally you tag with while making missions.
That is, between 1 and 11 points (For 12 player elite missions).
genofreek
Haven't we already had threads that tried to force players to group up?
My last pug, I'm not even joking, had a Mo/Rt who brought a couple heals, a handful of offensive channeling spells, an expensive spirit or two, and no rez. The warrior had Firestorm. It's like someone ran the /badpug team build and applied it to my party. People insisted on loading up the party with monks despite the fact that we had two human healbots, I was playing a restorit, and a hero monk was required for the mission.
/notsigned, ever. I'm not completely anti-pug because there's entertainment value and occasionally you get a good one, but I H/H nearly everywhere. Don't penalize me for it. I'm already not getting the most out of my PvE skills that hinge on high title ranks, since I hate grind.
My last pug, I'm not even joking, had a Mo/Rt who brought a couple heals, a handful of offensive channeling spells, an expensive spirit or two, and no rez. The warrior had Firestorm. It's like someone ran the /badpug team build and applied it to my party. People insisted on loading up the party with monks despite the fact that we had two human healbots, I was playing a restorit, and a hero monk was required for the mission.
/notsigned, ever. I'm not completely anti-pug because there's entertainment value and occasionally you get a good one, but I H/H nearly everywhere. Don't penalize me for it. I'm already not getting the most out of my PvE skills that hinge on high title ranks, since I hate grind.
Dimitri_Stucoff
I agree with most of what is said here. This title track is a bad idea, and none the less easily farmable. Even if one only counted missions done (make it like the legendary guardian title track where each mission is only counted once and you have to do it in both easy and hard mode) it still would be a bad idea. Have you guys been to some of the old mission areas in tyria? The place is dead, actually getting the number of people to do said mission would be extremely difficult.
As most of the people opposing this have said, do not penalize people further for using H/H (it has already been pointed out why H/H already is penalized in comparison to real people, guild group or not. A person of average intellegence should be better than a hero in most cases), I rather not have people ride on my coat-tails through this game... unless they are paying me to do so.
As most of the people opposing this have said, do not penalize people further for using H/H (it has already been pointed out why H/H already is penalized in comparison to real people, guild group or not. A person of average intellegence should be better than a hero in most cases), I rather not have people ride on my coat-tails through this game... unless they are paying me to do so.
Kanyatta
I don't see why we should reward one way to play the game over another.
And with this title track, why would you buff heroes for getting further in it? That just doesn't make sense.
And with this title track, why would you buff heroes for getting further in it? That just doesn't make sense.
Blu
Too easy to exploit, etc.
/Notsigned
/Notsigned
Marverick
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
If you want to motivate PuGing, introduce a basic IQ test before you can play the game, and/or disable Mending, Flare, Power Shot etc. in groups.
Idiots and crap players deter people from PuGing, and always will untill we can remove bad players from our experience. |
Make this like some sort of quest chain; once you complete it successfully you can display a title so that others know you are not some mentally deficient tard and will be willing to group with you.
That way the little immature idiots with an IQ of 0.2967 ^ 928734 won't get into your groups and screw everyone up with their constant bitching and lack of reason and common sense because you know whom they are (or rather, you know who isn't one of them).
That's the only way PuGs will ever be widely popular again.
End of story.
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Marverick
QFT
Make this like some sort of quest chain; once you complete it successfully you can display a title so that others know you are not some mentally deficient tard and will be willing to group with you. That way the little immature idiots with an IQ of 0.2967 ^ 928734 won't get into your groups and screw everyone up with their constant bitching and lack of reason and common sense because you know whom they are (or rather, you know who isn't one of them). That's the only way PuGs will ever be widely popular again. End of story. |
Marverick
There is only one rank to the title... it will not take long to get, maybe 30 minutes maximum; however, one will need a fully functional brain to complete it. Also, it can be a solo title to prevent the "running" of it.
bhavv
I have a better Idea, hero title track!
For each kill you gain 1 point per hero in your party. It would work like current slayer title tracks, and encourages grouping with one other person for twice as many points.
Rank 1: I dont pug
Rank 2: I hate pugs
Rank 3: pug fails
Rank 4: pug epic phails
Rank 5: pugs are bad for your health
Rank 6: pugs = n00bieZ
Rank 7: hardcore
pug hater
Rank 8: Pugz R stoopid, throw rocks at dem
Maybe 100000 points to max.
For each kill you gain 1 point per hero in your party. It would work like current slayer title tracks, and encourages grouping with one other person for twice as many points.
Rank 1: I dont pug
Rank 2: I hate pugs
Rank 3: pug fails
Rank 4: pug epic phails
Rank 5: pugs are bad for your health
Rank 6: pugs = n00bieZ
Rank 7: hardcore
pug hater
Rank 8: Pugz R stoopid, throw rocks at dem
Maybe 100000 points to max.
bhavv
I mean, Solo title track cos hero already exists lol
Snow Bunny
99% of the GW playerbase is a. worse @ this game than I, b. less intelligent than I.
Furthermore, 99% of the GW playerbase is a. worse @ this game than Heroes, b. less intelligent than heroes.
So...
Why should I play with people again?
Furthermore, 99% of the GW playerbase is a. worse @ this game than Heroes, b. less intelligent than heroes.
So...
Why should I play with people again?
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
99% of the GW playerbase is a. worse @ this game than I, b. less intelligent than I.
Furthermore, 99% of the GW playerbase is a. worse @ this game than Heroes, b. less intelligent than heroes. So... Why should I play with people again? |
bhavv
You mean 99.9%? And 'I' means Me not u 