Do you prefer old SP spike or the current one?

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

22 Jan 2008 at 03:04 - 1

Question is simple, and for those who can't remember:
Old one had: BLS-Horns-BSS-BoS-Impale

New one: We all know, involving trampling ox and twisting fangs.

Imo, in observation to this the old SP spike still prevails for me. This current one just seems superior in every way, the faster recharging lead (in comparison to BLS of old when it was offhand), the non-reliance to a hex after the lead, and the more reliable kd of trampling to horns.

That being said, if the intention of nerfing all those sin skills of the older SP combo was to destroy the SP sin (and if obviously this failed), then why not return the old sin skills back to what they were to open up more variety for sin builds overall. (Skills like HoTo, BLS were crucial in a lot of builds, but impale can die

)

Anyway, just my two cents (and if it wasn't clear I support a rebuff of old sin skills, except the impale nerf can stay or maybe be made harsher.)

fireflyry

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

New Zealand

A/D

22 Jan 2008 at 03:36 - 2

I don't really have a preference as I've never run it but in general PvP there are less SP sins overall imo hence in that regard the nerfs were a success, assuming that was Izzy's goal.

I agree the HotO nerf was a bit overboard though and effected a lot of my builds.

I'm also pretty sure that if you run the numbers the old SP was a significantly larger spike with the inclusion of BoS and Impale hence was far more effective as an instagib build, the general consensus being that was it's major fault and reasoning behind the nerfs.

Again I've never played one but the new build seems to lack the DPS and I rarely die to SP sin spikes these days unless I'm on 50% or less health.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

22 Jan 2008 at 07:07 - 3

The old one was overpowered and much better than the current one.

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

22 Jan 2008 at 09:24 - 4

The old one was stronger, but the game could have done without any of them.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

22 Jan 2008 at 10:48 - 5

pre-nerf SP, pre-nerf BLS, pre-nerf HotO, pre-nerf Impale, pre-nerf Expose. Not to mention BoA.

The new SP build(s) can't hold a candle to the old one.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

22 Jan 2008 at 11:59 - 6

I'd let the OLD sp come back if it could Resurrect Horns of the Ox.

Anyways Old Sp was superior
The idea of SP was an Intense fast Spike, this Trampling ox thing is slower, and really you take the Old SP vs this, This Trampling Fool would be dead before he could trample anything, With or Without Horns.

Anyways screw It I hate em both.

SP killed Horns,....god damn it T_T

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

22 Jan 2008 at 14:22 - 7

in factoring in BoS+impale yes the old one is superior, but with these things nerfed as they should be the old one can have the previous "important" sin skills that were involved in builds like SoS, siphon strength, etc.

The real objective i guess i'm trying to achieve is to bring back these two skills (BLS, horns)to the sin line, but keep or nerf BoS- impale more if needed because they just contribute to bad builds.

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

22 Jan 2008 at 15:12 - 8

Well, Impale has had its share of nerfs, and it has fallen into disuse. It was, IMO, pre-nerf BLS that made all the madness possible.

- Shortcut.
- good +dmg.
- irrelevant requirement.
- Criminal nrg gain.

Horns was INNOCENT. The Falling skills have never caused whining by my knowledge, and its +dmg was only mediocre anyway (whereas it is non-existant now)

Aris the Accurate

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

22 Jan 2008 at 16:01 - 9

I want the prenerf Aod sin back =[

Stranger The Ranger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Those Netherlands

Dynasty Warriors [DW]

22 Jan 2008 at 16:58 - 10

Impale wasnt overpowered anyway... It was so damn useful for many non-SP builds, now it's nothing but interrupt food. They just should've killed BLS right away to stop the SP-Spiker, instead of nerfing all the great skills around it (Impale, HotO, BSS) :\

/My QQ'ing

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

23 Jan 2008 at 11:58 - 11

Ya how can you nerf 1 skill...fix all your problems.....

But do it after you nerfed everything else >.>

Quote:

The real objective i guess i'm trying to achieve is to bring back these two skills (BLS, horns)to the sin line, but keep or nerf BoS- impale more if needed because they just contribute to bad builds. BoS-impale makes bad builds? >.>

I have yet to see an efficient SP spike without an IAS.
Srsly., IAS+ Shadowprison = Bad build >.> end of story

dasullybear

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

You're basement, eating a ham sandwhich

Mo/

23 Jan 2008 at 20:34 - 12

The old one was better.
End of story.

The only reason the current one exists was because of the nerf to the old one, if the current one was better it'd have replaced the old one the day GW:EN came out. Theres no arguement.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

23 Jan 2008 at 21:46 - 13

Old one was sexy.

Celeborn10

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

In my lair...

R/Mo

24 Jan 2008 at 02:30 - 14

Old SP Assassin:
4 skills in the chain, 2 of them were offhands making it possible to change dual attacks from one hexed target to another. The 2 offhands and two leads made for insane e-management between BLS and the duals critting. Room for an IAS, survival heal, expunge enchantments, res sig, backup hex or recall on the bar. It didn't need an IAS to be particularly strong but with one and Expose Defenses it was overpowered. The bar was relatively flexible and individual sins tweaked it to their particular playstyle. 5/5

Current SP Assassin:
5-6 attack skills in the chain meaning the chain HAS to be under an IAS to have any possibility of getting by a monk with an IQ with one digit. Without the IAS 1.33*5=6.66 seconds, under 33% IAS it's 4.45 seconds. Reliant upon cripple and slave to SP's recharge unless they drop the res sig for Siphon Speed. Also once the chain is started the assassin is dedicated to finishing it meaning once it's stopped by blind, block or hexes it the character is useless unless more enemies are hexed. Without any room for utility whatsoever it lacks flexibility and survivability on its own and requires even less intelligence than the old build to use to whatever little potential it has. 3/5

Destro Maniak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2006

25 Jan 2008 at 20:45 - 15

This even is not a discussion the old one was way better. No debate is needed. Now we use black mantis jungle twist blah:P
I wish the old sp comes back.(it never will:P)

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

25 Jan 2008 at 20:50 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aris the Accurate

I want the prenerf Aod sin back =[ Quoted for the agreement.

newbie_of_doom

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

WTFPRIVACYDUDE

Endangered Feces [DoDo]

W/Mo

07 Feb 2008 at 12:44 - 17

Old SP was overpowered, many monks couldn't handle it.

New SP is okay.

tzavong

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

W/Rt

07 Feb 2008 at 20:37 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

I'd let the OLD sp come back if it could Resurrect Horns of the Ox.
Horns of the ox was overpowered anyways, regardless of usage in the SP build.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

07 Feb 2008 at 21:54 - 19

meh horns never really bothered me

they did force monks in RA to start actually getting decent instead of the crap we see today

sold old BoA sin was good new one is meh

Am I A Good Sin

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Tyria

Pyromaniacs Inc

A/E

09 Feb 2008 at 19:53 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Quoted for the agreement.

I have a really good AoD build. Lacks a heal but easily took out both old and nerfed SP sin and from what I saw easily lasted longer and blind can't shut it down. If ur interested msg me on wiki.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

09 Feb 2008 at 20:14 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tzavong

Horns of the ox was overpowered anyways, regardless of usage in the SP build. And for some odd reason it was okay for ~2 years.

Damn, AN is slow in nerfing op skills
GW community is slow too, but in noticing op skills.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

09 Feb 2008 at 20:31 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Am I A Good Sin

I have a really good AoD build. Lacks a heal but easily took out both old and nerfed SP sin and from what I saw easily lasted longer and blind can't shut it down. If ur interested msg me on wiki. [skill]assassin's remedy[/skill] FTW!

But the main reason that AoD can take out a SP, is because of the essense of escape in it. You can freely shadowstep out of battle, and while your running off jump em again! Liek a ninjah!

Am I A Good Sin

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Tyria

Pyromaniacs Inc

A/E

10 Feb 2008 at 18:20 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

[skill]assassin's remedy[/skill] FTW!

But the main reason that AoD can take out a SP, is because of the essense of escape in it. You can freely shadowstep out of battle, and while your running off jump em again! Liek a ninjah! Assassin's remedy is one of the best condition removals. U just don't c that many ppl using it. But yeah assassin's remedy is on the bar. AoD works great in EVERYTHING. Similar effect using SP would be SP and return/deaths retreat cept u can't be stripped and sent back. Downfall is ur screwed without allies around.

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

10 Feb 2008 at 19:12 - 24

The 'old' SP was likely stronger, thus it got nerfed - repeatedly - to what we have today.

Still... Aura of Displacement > SP.

Well, in truth...
'sins not instagibbing at all > AoD (fun!

) > SP (just... 1234567 lame crap)

Cirian

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

European Union

The Amazon Basin

26 Feb 2008 at 16:19 - 25

I like the new hybrid Arts guys that pack siphon, bss, vamp assault and full strength impales and sig of tox shocks. Shadow Prison is barely better than Dark Prison now anyway, so you may as well pack something really scary like Shroud of Silence. Pre-veil or die against that bad boy.

RavagerOfDreams

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

somewhere over the rainbow....

27 Feb 2008 at 00:16 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Old one was sexy. QFT

yea it was

its not completely dead though

you can use sp-tiger-black lotus- exhausting - black spider - blades - impale

kills just fine