When Hard Mode was first released, people mentioned almost right away the amount of Grawl Ulodyte overkill there was. For a 4-man party, there's simply TOO MUCH healing to handle when vanquishing these Ascalon zones. There are Ulodytes everywhere. One wrong pull and you end up with 3 Ulodytes healing 3-4 Grawl. These Ulodytes aren't normal healers either. They are super bionic kiters with almost limitless energy. A 4-man party simply isn't enough to handle this BS. People mentioned it a year ago, and ANet still hasn't done anything to alleviate the situation.
I'm sorry, but it's time for this BS to stop. For the love of everything, ANet needs to thin out the number of Grawl Ulodytes in these mobs or tone down their HM builds a bit. It's ridiculous. I shouldn't have the hardest time trying to vanquish one of the first zones in the original game. It's not my party. I've tried all sorts of combinations. I've been playing GW since June of 2005, so it's not like I can't put together a decent team build and/or pull adequately. I tried Scourge Healing. I tried knockdowns, Ward Against Melee, interrupts, etc... and nothing seems to work. It's not me. It's the damn mobs. The rest of the zone(s) aren't hard to vanquish at all. It's these damn Grawl-laden areas.
Too many Ulodytes + 4-man HM Parties = BS
TideSwayer
goondaba
I am not sure how I vanquished those areas but I do remember how much of a pain in the arse those healers were. I think I had to do some serious pulling and the ability to place your heroes where you need them works wonders. I would recommend that no matter what profession you are bring a longbow. Pull from as far back as you can. Then run even further so that you can separate the mobs. Best of luck and bring Ursan Blessing! lol
Numa Pompilius
If they team up on you you need to run off and do a new pull. You can't kill three ulodytes spamming heals on eachother (while a bunch of hammer knockdown warriors are doing their stuff too).
The good news is that they can always be pulled apart from eachother. I vanquished all those areas with henches, and although it's a bit tedious to take each mob individually, it can be done without too much difficulty.
It greatly helps if you can limit their WoH spamming, f.ex. by knockdowns (ursan + stoneskin works wonders).
The good news is that they can always be pulled apart from eachother. I vanquished all those areas with henches, and although it's a bit tedious to take each mob individually, it can be done without too much difficulty.
It greatly helps if you can limit their WoH spamming, f.ex. by knockdowns (ursan + stoneskin works wonders).
Jecht Scye
My advice is to take someone with you, Pull extremely carefully, and hit multiple targets at once. I was an SS necro with a real smiter monk(Sig of Judgement), we brought another monk, and an MM(Sab's 3 necro). The Smiter would alway target the Ulodyte and I would spread hexes to the Hammer Grawls. Eventually the Ulodyte would be over-pressured, and die. Buy yeah, those groups are really hard - Probably the hardest in Tyria.
Phaern Majes
Lol, I went for ToA and cleared everything east of there. As you can get to every map east of ToA without entering a town. That means 8 man parties. Sure its annoying not being able to pick up all your drops and really annoying when you need to quit and go to restart later and have to run through all the maps you already did. But on the plus side I had an 8 man party and it was a cake walk :P
zwei2stein
3-priest grawl group was actually first thing i encountered in HM. It got me excited that HM would be actually hard ... shame.
What i can suggest is to bring physical damage dealer(s) who can inflict deepwound (noticeable healing eficiency drop.) and ideally knockdown too. Switch targets/strip enchant when you notice healing hands and they should run out of energy eventually.
What i can suggest is to bring physical damage dealer(s) who can inflict deepwound (noticeable healing eficiency drop.) and ideally knockdown too. Switch targets/strip enchant when you notice healing hands and they should run out of energy eventually.
TideSwayer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Phaern Majes
Lol, I went for ToA and cleared everything east of there. As you can get to every map east of ToA without entering a town. That means 8 man parties. Sure its annoying not being able to pick up all your drops and really annoying when you need to quit and go to restart later and have to run through all the maps you already did. But on the plus side I had an 8 man party and it was a cake walk :P
|
) It would be a pretty cheesy way of getting it done, not to mention take a long time to set up and do, but whatever works, right?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
What i can suggest is to bring physical damage dealer(s) who can inflict deepwound (noticeable healing eficiency drop.) and ideally knockdown too. Switch targets/strip enchant when you notice healing hands and they should run out of energy eventually.
|
MisterB
For even more cheese, run 4 Warriors with Stonefist and UB and just keep them AoE KD'ed until they're dead. Aren't PvE skills fun.
Antheus
Quote:
| People mentioned it a year ago, and ANet still hasn't done anything to alleviate the situation |
There's several ways to deal with this. The by far best classes to bring into 4-man vanquishing are necros and mesmers. Various nukers or similar are subpar.
Mesmer with diversion is obvious choice against healers. N/Rit healer is good as well - they spam the weapon of..., which means constant life stealing. Enchant removal is a must. Anything armor ignoring, self-damaging is also great (SS, Insidious).
Quote:
| Scourge Healing |
Quote:
| knockdowns |
Quote:
| Ward Against Melee |
Quote:
| interrupts |
MagmaRed
I did it with 3 heroes, and no PvE skills. Its a matter of 2 things. Interrupting the heals, and reducing the healing provided. I used my Ranger, and I took a Curse necro, Dom mez, and Heal monk. Although you already mentioned Scourge Healing, consider some of the other skills that can deal with them.... and remember, they only have 3 spells total.
[skill]Power Block[/skill][skill]Broad Head Arrow[/skill][skill]Backfire[/skill][skill]Mark of Subversion[/skill][skill]Shame[/skill][skill]Defile Flesh[/skill][skill]Diversion[/skill][skill]Arcane Conundrum[/skill][skill]Migraine[/skill][skill]Frustration[/skill]
Thats not even a full list, and it only covers 3 classes. Assassin and Monk both have nice options for anti-spell casting, and I didn't even go into what can be done when they use Healing Hands (shatter/strip/etc.). They have no hex or condition removal, and only 3 spells total, so it isn't that hard to make them useless. Arcane Thievery+Larceny gives them only Healing Hands, and that can be shut down with Sig of Humility.
Hard, yes. Needs to be changed, no. It can be done, and has been done. PvE skills make it absolutely easy.
[skill]Power Block[/skill][skill]Broad Head Arrow[/skill][skill]Backfire[/skill][skill]Mark of Subversion[/skill][skill]Shame[/skill][skill]Defile Flesh[/skill][skill]Diversion[/skill][skill]Arcane Conundrum[/skill][skill]Migraine[/skill][skill]Frustration[/skill]
Thats not even a full list, and it only covers 3 classes. Assassin and Monk both have nice options for anti-spell casting, and I didn't even go into what can be done when they use Healing Hands (shatter/strip/etc.). They have no hex or condition removal, and only 3 spells total, so it isn't that hard to make them useless. Arcane Thievery+Larceny gives them only Healing Hands, and that can be shut down with Sig of Humility.
Hard, yes. Needs to be changed, no. It can be done, and has been done. PvE skills make it absolutely easy.
MithranArkanere
I'm missing an Eastern Frontier because of them.
I've tried even by using mesmers, rangers with dazing and condition spreading and deep wound all at the same time... but nothing works.
Dazing do not last enough, and they need ONE heal area to almost completely heal themselves.
When I finally get to make a hero party than can beat them, it becomes almost useless for the rest of the area.
The only people I know that could beat the area started all of them from Yak's Bend.
Yargh. They should allow 8-parties in hard mode in any outpost.
You already can do that in the Whole Tyria if you leave from another outpost and all areas but one in Istan.
The only place that actually limits parties is Shing Jea. And that place cakewalk (Well, not the Portal meaning of cakewalk, I mean easy).
At least they should decrease a bit they healing prayers attribute.
I've tried even by using mesmers, rangers with dazing and condition spreading and deep wound all at the same time... but nothing works.
Dazing do not last enough, and they need ONE heal area to almost completely heal themselves.
When I finally get to make a hero party than can beat them, it becomes almost useless for the rest of the area.
The only people I know that could beat the area started all of them from Yak's Bend.
Yargh. They should allow 8-parties in hard mode in any outpost.
You already can do that in the Whole Tyria if you leave from another outpost and all areas but one in Istan.
The only place that actually limits parties is Shing Jea. And that place cakewalk (Well, not the Portal meaning of cakewalk, I mean easy).
At least they should decrease a bit they healing prayers attribute.
The Meth
BHA + MM
What healing?
If you aren't a ranger just bring any form of enchant stripping. With healing hands gone you can easily out damage heal area / other.
BTW if they are kiting from you use that to your advantage, make one kite away while you hit another.
What healing?
If you aren't a ranger just bring any form of enchant stripping. With healing hands gone you can easily out damage heal area / other.
BTW if they are kiting from you use that to your advantage, make one kite away while you hit another.
Kahlindra
Eastern Frontier finished the other day with three necros and a warrior with stability stances. Done. If people have been noticing the challenge since the beginning then GOOD. Legendary Vanquisher shouldn't just be a question of time + c-space.
itsvictor
Just spike them, yes it may seem like hard thing to pull off but its not impossible, a minion master, Spiteful spirit necro or para, and a monk are good enough. "You move like a dwarf" then a deep wound and good dmg output really drops them fast, despite ungodly attributes and what not, you have to remember this is AI, you can outsmart them ^-^
Squishy ftw
Bring a mesmer with [skill]arcane larceny[/skill][skill]arcane thievery[/skill] and with a bit of luck you got 1 monk left with only 1 skill..
Malice Black
Theses are the best HM areas. These areas actually are reasonably hard. It's a shame the rest of HM failed to live up to this.
Red Sonya
Grawl healers are real easy to take out with everyone having a cold weapon and one of your necros carrying both spinal shivers and shivers of dread and another necro feeding him with blood ritulal. They can't get a heal off and if you can get them in close promity to one another you can sue spinning axe or that elite one and clobber everyone of them with a cold attack at the same time.
Hell, I beat a lot of areas with more than one healer all the time with my builds and only 3 heroes. Of course I do have different builds for different areas that's why you have "so many skills you can use" so, if you can only play with cookie cutter builds off of wiki then yup you're going to run into trouble and a lot because you don't know how to make different builds and use best judgement in different areas.
I have so many saved builds in my template list now according to areas or zones. All it takes are a few swift clicks here and there and my heroes are setup for THAT area with new skills and new equipment if required.
You've got to bring some interupts though in hard mode if you plan to survive and succeed. Everything doesn't have to be dps to win. I've won in many areas bringing two monks and just one other damage dealer, but, I have one monk setup as a smiter and mesmer interupter works for me.
Most people just don't know how to make creative builds, they'd rather run to the internet forums and QQ about how hard it is for "them" to succeed. lol
Hell, I beat a lot of areas with more than one healer all the time with my builds and only 3 heroes. Of course I do have different builds for different areas that's why you have "so many skills you can use" so, if you can only play with cookie cutter builds off of wiki then yup you're going to run into trouble and a lot because you don't know how to make different builds and use best judgement in different areas.
I have so many saved builds in my template list now according to areas or zones. All it takes are a few swift clicks here and there and my heroes are setup for THAT area with new skills and new equipment if required.
You've got to bring some interupts though in hard mode if you plan to survive and succeed. Everything doesn't have to be dps to win. I've won in many areas bringing two monks and just one other damage dealer, but, I have one monk setup as a smiter and mesmer interupter works for me.
Most people just don't know how to make creative builds, they'd rather run to the internet forums and QQ about how hard it is for "them" to succeed. lol
thor hammerbane
Uhm...No.
I vanquished old ascalon and regent valley with h/h in 1 go each. You sir just need better builds...
I vanquished old ascalon and regent valley with h/h in 1 go each. You sir just need better builds...
Divinus Stella
Thousands of other people have done it, if you cant then perhaps your not good enough at Guild Wars.
ValaOfTheFens
Those Grawl healers run away if they take too much damage and will simply not be pulled in HM(their hammer wielding buddies love me though). I'll have to try some of the stuff suggested in this thread.
TideSwayer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Red Sonya
Most people just don't know how to make creative builds, they'd rather run to the internet forums and QQ about how hard it is for "them" to succeed. lol
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Divinus Stella
Thousands of other people have done it, if you cant then perhaps your not good enough at Guild Wars.
|
Sure thing. Rolleyes.
For those of you who are actually contributing to the thread, thanks. The Mesmer ideas sound worth trying. I usually bring a Mesmer hero with me. To be honest, I don't know why I didn't try one out against the Grawl. Probably the only part in HM thus far (already done vanquishing Cantha and Elona and part of Tyria) that I've had trouble with. Simply didn't need one elsewhere.
Arduin
I used a [skill]broad head arrow[/skill][skill]epidemic[/skill] combination. Supported by a Minion Master means constant interrupting. Good luck.
pOmrAkkUn
My set up
E/N(my self) Fire ele with Rip Enchant.
N/Rt(Olias) SS necro with Barbs, Rip Enchant, Weapon of Warding
N/Mo(Livia) MM old build with Flesh Golem+Bone Fiend
Mo/ (Dunkoro) WoH with Guardian
2 copy of Rip Enchant for 2 Healing Hand
Weapon of Warding+Guardian for 2 hammer warriors
It took a while to kill first group but after I have some minions they die so fast with Barbs
E/N(my self) Fire ele with Rip Enchant.
N/Rt(Olias) SS necro with Barbs, Rip Enchant, Weapon of Warding
N/Mo(Livia) MM old build with Flesh Golem+Bone Fiend
Mo/ (Dunkoro) WoH with Guardian
2 copy of Rip Enchant for 2 Healing Hand
Weapon of Warding+Guardian for 2 hammer warriors
It took a while to kill first group but after I have some minions they die so fast with Barbs
Kos Luftar
lrn2pull, lrn2kill, lrn2notfail in the end just lrn2play.
ValaOfTheFens
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pOmrAkkUn
My set up
E/N(my self) Fire ele with Rip Enchant. N/Rt(Olias) SS necro with Barbs, Rip Enchant, Weapon of Warding N/Mo(Livia) MM old build with Flesh Golem+Bone Fiend Mo/ (Dunkoro) WoH with Guardian 2 copy of Rip Enchant for 2 Healing Hand Weapon of Warding+Guardian for 2 hammer warriors It took a while to kill first group but after I have some minions they die so fast with Barbs |
Old Man Of Ascalon
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
The only people I know that could beat the area started all of them from Yak's Bend.
|
It's by far the worst area in the game to vanquish.
I used a Power Block Mesmer, SS, Regualr Monk and I went as a Ranger with a Glass Arrows damage build and I brought Scourge Healing on my bar.
Pulling was key and it was hard as hell to do sometimes. If you have more than two monks your screwed. Spam Scourge on everyone, pick a monk and start beating on them.
I also suggest bringing consumables of some sort because once you finish doing the tiny grawl area, you have an entire map of charr and plague devourers left to do.
KamikazeChicken
When there are only 2 use an enchant strip on HH and power through until one dies (1 kites, 1 stands). If there happens to be 3, try to ball the 2 that don't kite and do the same. I can't remember what heroes I used to vanquish those areas though. It was probably MM, Mes or Ele, Ele.
Nevin
Perhaps you should try... URSANWAY! AWYYAYAYAYAYAY
Adam of Tyria
I used the Triple Necro Vanquish team and I owned them completely. I was a Dragon Slash Spammer myself, and used "Save Yourselves!" to relieve less pressure. I even had up to 3-4 of the healers fighting and I still steamrolled them.
Xue Fang
Want to see a trick? MM + Scourge Healing.
Wait until someone gets Healing Hands on them and you will LOL.
Wait until someone gets Healing Hands on them and you will LOL.
Kamara
Yeah, the Ulodytes had me kicking puppies for half a day. Then I broke away from my normal build and ran something stupidly batty that it worked.
Pic because I can't be bothered typing out the skills I used, and I had the URL in my clipboard already
Go. Very. Slowly. From Surmia mission, use hero flags and pull. It's annoying. I agree. But they don't need to be toned down. And again I'll say pull pull pull. Pulling is key as well as being patient watching the mobs so you only take on one group, and pull them as far back as they'll go so another one doesn't join in.
Pic because I can't be bothered typing out the skills I used, and I had the URL in my clipboard already
Go. Very. Slowly. From Surmia mission, use hero flags and pull. It's annoying. I agree. But they don't need to be toned down. And again I'll say pull pull pull. Pulling is key as well as being patient watching the mobs so you only take on one group, and pull them as far back as they'll go so another one doesn't join in.
Kerwyn Nasilan
I never had a problem, MM kept the wariors busy and degening and I just spammed DS till It was dead. With brawling headbutt It was kept knocked down and died. Besides Ursan> Monkies if this doesnt work.
Kusandaa
I was a necro myself (ran SV), with Sab's 3 necro build. The first mob was a bit tough, but once it was down the rest wasn't so bad. Annoying area anyways...
Alex Morningstar
Try Sab's 3 necro build. Technobabble is awesome, make sure to switch targets and keep the pressure on. They'll give... eventually.
Peachie
I did Eastern Frontier with a Power Block Mesmer, an SS necro, a tank and a monk. Worked fine, the tank kept the Grawl away from the rest of the group. Grawl warriors were killed first, then the Ulodytes.
It was a challenge at first, but easily manageable so I don't think any change is necessary. In my group, i tanked with my Monk using stances and sword attacks because the warrior heroes tend to run about instead of standing still which would result in the Grawl heading over to the squishies. So yeah, if it is simple enough with a sub-standard build such as the one I used then no toning down of Grawl mobs is really necessary.
It was a challenge at first, but easily manageable so I don't think any change is necessary. In my group, i tanked with my Monk using stances and sword attacks because the warrior heroes tend to run about instead of standing still which would result in the Grawl heading over to the squishies. So yeah, if it is simple enough with a sub-standard build such as the one I used then no toning down of Grawl mobs is really necessary.
Longasc
HARD MODE was HARD??? I think it should be more often like that.
People can try a lot of different strategies to kill the Grawls and the rest of the area. Just leave from Serenity Temple. With consumables and tons of PvE skills it also became easier than before and ever.
I do not think it is too hard, but we got too much used to cry about any challenge, and this made this game the piss easy mess it is nowadays. Can at least not Hard Mode have some obstacles?
I used this:
1. Curse Necro with Barbs
2. / 3. Two Rangers with Rapid Fire, Feral Aggression, Heal as One and high Beast Mastery.
4. Hybrid Heal/Prot Monk.
You do not need interrupts, barbs and 4 attackers on IAS stances/preps (2 wolves, 2 rangers with flatbows) plus some Necrosis simply overpowered their healing capabilities.
For a Warrior, I suggest packing the Brawling Headbutt and other KD stuff, which works even better.
GW does not get better when it gets made ever easier, in fact it is detrimental!
People can try a lot of different strategies to kill the Grawls and the rest of the area. Just leave from Serenity Temple. With consumables and tons of PvE skills it also became easier than before and ever.
I do not think it is too hard, but we got too much used to cry about any challenge, and this made this game the piss easy mess it is nowadays. Can at least not Hard Mode have some obstacles?
I used this:
1. Curse Necro with Barbs
2. / 3. Two Rangers with Rapid Fire, Feral Aggression, Heal as One and high Beast Mastery.
4. Hybrid Heal/Prot Monk.
You do not need interrupts, barbs and 4 attackers on IAS stances/preps (2 wolves, 2 rangers with flatbows) plus some Necrosis simply overpowered their healing capabilities.
For a Warrior, I suggest packing the Brawling Headbutt and other KD stuff, which works even better.
GW does not get better when it gets made ever easier, in fact it is detrimental!
blackknight1337
I suggest you put some more work into your builds...this area is kinda hard, but very beatable. I vanquished this area in 4 man, playing a monk. With patience and the will to succeed, you can beat anything in HM.
The build i used is posted on an earlier thread about this zone, killed 2 monk groups many a time in that zone. The keys here are shutting the grawl warriors down, enchant strips for healing hands and SoJ, and some hex removal for lingering curse from the charr necros. Start from Surmia, when you finish the grawl (which are by far harder than charr), use the devourers to lose some dp, then finish charr. Done. If it can be done using a monk (no d-slash/brawling) and heroes then maybe you should go find 3 other people to help you. 4 humans with brains will destroy this area.
The build i used is posted on an earlier thread about this zone, killed 2 monk groups many a time in that zone. The keys here are shutting the grawl warriors down, enchant strips for healing hands and SoJ, and some hex removal for lingering curse from the charr necros. Start from Surmia, when you finish the grawl (which are by far harder than charr), use the devourers to lose some dp, then finish charr. Done. If it can be done using a monk (no d-slash/brawling) and heroes then maybe you should go find 3 other people to help you. 4 humans with brains will destroy this area.
Mouse at Large
I'm and ele and I did it with Sabs. One small tip, don't go for the grawl immediately, go and kill a couple of popup groups first to get a few minions.
Miska Bow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nevin
Perhaps you should try... URSANWAY! AWYYAYAYAYAYAY
|
Vanquished the area with :
1-Ranger dmg build (myself as puller and controlling my heroes)
2-Monk healing build
3-Mesmer heavy interupt/dmg build
4/necro heavy degen/dmg build
I did have to pull carefully and play tank but having something else to do then hacking and slashing my way trough a dungeon was fun. Yes they are hard but they are fun to do. Try to find your self the right builds, READ WIKI TO LEARN ABOUT THE FOES IN THAT ZONE and these 4 man zones wont be that hard.
Phaern Majes
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Kos Luftar
lrn2pull, lrn2kill, lrn2notfail in the end just lrn2play.
|