Tihark Orchard - help...Skree

I'm not a very skilled player, and I don't follow all of the tweaks to character armor, weapons, skills, etc. that I read about here. And, I usually play with my son, who is much more skilled and knowledgeable. BTW, I'm an old guy, so maybe that puts this in perspective.

I'm playing a lvl 20 E/R, and have died 6 or 7 times now (have lost count) trying to finish the Skree ending part of the mission. I get through the rest fine, and I don't bother with the drunkard and mime bonus. Only once did I get close - the last Skree was down to under 20% before I died. Usually, that last one is still pretty healthy when I go down.

I completed this once before after dying many times with my lvl 20 R/E, who I think is a much weaker character, but I can't seem to get through it with my E/R.

I searched and found a thread on this mission, but it was along the lines of "how did you feel about a mandatory solo" and nearly all of the replies - at least on the first page - were players delighted with the challenge...none were having trouble, so clearly were much better players than I am. I also checked the Wiki, but didn't find any tips in the walkthrough that would help.

I generally leave the ones at the top of the stairs till last, and wait till my health and energy are back up before going after them. I have waited for them to separate, then tried to pull one of them but always get both. If I back down the stairs and try to work on one from a distance, the one not under attack follows me and I have to switch to that one, and he invariably kills me. If I charge in to have all four of the guards involved and within my ward against melee, I am heavily attacked and die.

Anybody out there willing and able to offer any tips on getting through this one?
Thanks very much for any help!
Optiker

Are you online now? I can give you an earth build that weakens melee. I know they're mainly rangers, so it should help considerably. You were on the right tracks with Ward Against Melee, but let the guards die. You're priority.

Yes, I'm online, but not in GW. I'm afraid I'm not very experienced with resetting skills for a given mission. I tend to just find what works for my play style and stick with it, so not sure if I can manage your earth build since I haven't done much to acquire skills other than those that I've acquired as I've worked through earlier quests. If you want to post back the set of skills, I'd be willing to give it a try. What I've been using looks like this...hope you can control your laughter if I've made stupid errors.

Air - 0
Earth - 9
Fire 12
Water - 0
Energy Storage - 10
all Ranger ones zero

Flare, Inferno, Meteor, Fire Storm, Searing Heat, Meteor Shower, Ward Against Melee, Glyph of Elemental Power

Undoubtedly not optimum, but I've tried to balance between fast cycling and good damage with a range of energy costs.

Thanks very much!
Optiker

OK, as a monk I went into this mission with a pure heal/prot bar and still managed to finish it.
The skree come in manageable groups, so the guards can handle them. Wards will be good as will a couple of skills (maybe Armor of Earth and possibly Deep Freeze to slow them).
If you can, change to /Monk and take a heal for an emergency.

EDIT:Your skill bar looks good, except for Flare which is only really a good skill for low levels. Consider tagging it out for a monk heal, considering you have no Ranger skills

I don't know what you mean by using a monk heal...is that something I have available among my elementalist skills? See...told you I was inexperienced!

Thanks!
Optiker

He means, change your secondary to monk and bring some healing with you.

For a build like that, you'll lose energy very quickly. You'll want Glyph of Elemental Power changed to Fire Attunement to redeem the heavy cost you're using with those skills. Also, I'd swap out Flare for Aura of Restoration to give some energy back, too. You'll find it a lot easier with just those two changes alone.

Basically, you need a skill to heal yourself. Any skill. Bring Aura of Restoration (its an energy storage skill, the one of the first skills you get so you do have it).

Also, put some points into air magic and bring Blinding Flash. The skree do melee damage and you can stand there and laugh while they swing at you and miss.

Commander Ryker...

Ah...OK. Don't know how to do that - change secondary - but it's probably in the Wiki, so think I can handle that.


Darkobra...

OK - will try to figure that out...think I can handle that. It's true that I lose energy quickly, but tried, with what I had available, to jack up energy conservation and recovery. Obviously, your suggestions are a better way, so will try to do that.

HawkofStorms...

Yes...had it at one time and for some reason that seemed like a good idea at the time, replaced it with something else. Will go back and see where I can work it in along with other suggestions.


crazybanshee...

Yeah, had it at one time but was disappointed in what it did for me, but then, maybe my expectations were too high. Will consider trying to get it back in.


Y'all who have replied...

Thank you for all of your suggestion, and especially thank you for constructive help without going too far over my head, smart-mouthing, or otherwise making fun of my limited experience. I've seen those kinds of replies and was hesitant to post the original post, and getting that kind of stuff back. Y'all are to be commended for your courtesy and helpfulness.

Clearly the trick is to get the best combination. I'm not sure I can do all that y'all have suggested, but will try to incorporate as much as I can. I'm sure that even with a few improvements I can get through it.

Thanks again...and y'all have a great week!
Optiker

Edit by Commander Ryker: I merged all your posts together. Next time just edit rather then making all those posts in a row.

I did that mission with my ele with almost the same build as yours.
When you begin attacking the skree, make sure the royal guards are near you, then agro them and pull them near the guards. Always do that. Also make sure the skree are attacking the guards.

if you have a secondary ranger...use troll ungent to get your health back....dont go into the next group of skrees until you are at full ....let the guards duke it out, you can always run away and come back at them.

RedStar...yup...doing that.

cosyfiep...not using troll ungent...not enough slots for all I'd like to use! Otherwise, am doing your other suggestions.

ALL...after following Darkobra's suggestions, died a couple more times without even getting to Skree (duel re-enactment got me). So, did a few other tweaks and still died a few more times. Wasn't sure where to get Blinding Flash and was getting impatient. Finally realized that I needed more firepower with faster recharge times, and could stand a little less energy restoration, so put flare back in. With the build I showed before, except I took out Ward Against Melee, put Glyph of Elemental Power back in, tried it again and got down to under 20 health once, but held there until that Skree was dead. But, finally finished it. The last group was relatively easy.

I have since replaced Firestorm with Flame Djinn's Haste - looks like faster recharge might help - will see if that's an improvement or not.

Finally, realized that my armor was still at 45. though pumped up a bit, so am now looking at 60 armor.

Thanks for all of your suggestions. Nice to have options when it's getting discouraging.

Optiker

Ouch, every 40 points in armor halves damage so a gain of 15 (60 is the max base armor) is a little over 18% reduction in damage - I bet that would have helped a lot

Also, try and make sure you have at least a minor vigor rune, get the best you can afford (since your son plays cajole him into getting you one - push for a superior ). Note that this rune *never* has a health penalty so it doesn't "count" towards saying things like "Only have one superior" - for a warrior their absorption runes are the same way (it will say when you mouse over them if they reduce your health).

I didn't see it mentioned but Glyph of Lesser Energy (GoLE) would also help for energy mangament. Flare is only decent because you are having issues managing your energy and can't pump out those higher damage spells - things like the attunements and GoLE *really* help on that.

Plus I notice that your attribute point spread doesn't seem to have runes (or if it does why a 12 in fire?). At least go with a minor rune in all the attributes (fire, earth, etc - minors have no health penalty and only help) that you use and make sure your headpiece adds a +1 to the attribute line you mostly use (in this case fire). At level 20 you should have 200 attribute points to spend (if not, check the wiki for the quests you need to do or ask here in another thread) - max fire and split the rest between earth and energy storage, though you seem to have pretty much got the split OK. If you do decide to use a superior you should only consider one due to loosing 75 health (though if you aren't having health issues having 16 in fire magic will *really* help you damage out).

And, lastly, make sure you realize that Ward against Melee *only* works against those guys that are attacking you from right next to you - that is those guys with swords, axes, hammers, daggers, and scythes. It will *not* help against bows, wands, or spells. If you run into that problem again look at increasing you armor instead as it works against everything (Armor of Earth is decent and easy to use).

Since you beat that mission this is somewhat late - however it *will* help later on. Don't be afraid to experiment - that's how we learned how to change. I'm not terribly good at it either, if I post a build many here can tear it apart and make something better, however I can clear most HM and have my protector titles so it doesn't take *that* much skill - just playing around gets most of it. And, while not "old", I'm not a kid either - I'm in my mid 30's so adults can very well do it also

Welcome to GW and Guru. You will find most people here to be helpful, as long as you don't abuse them. I do suggest that you try to not make multiple posts (five in a row), but instead use one post whenever you can.

On topic: The two key things I have found in that quest (been a while since I have done it) are to bring a self heal and pull the Skree to the guards so they take most of the damage. Take your time, and good luck!

I would suggest fire attunement and aura of restoration, that will help with both health and energy. Other than that, like the others said, take it one group at a time, heal up between groups and use the guards.

Off topic...I am gonna kill that damn mime. This is by far the hardest masters mission i have encountered so far and I have protector of tyria title and masters in all nightfall missions up to this point and some past.

I would strongly recomend useing more defencive skills for that mission.

Armor of Earth should boost you up to the point where your taking very little damage from any attacks. I would suggest a skill bar like this:

[skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill][skill]Armor of Earth[/skill][skill]Enervating Charge[/skill][skill]Stoning[/skill][skill]Ash Blast[/skill][skill]Glowstone[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Sandstorm[/skill]

Those who replied after I posted that I had completed the mission, thank you as well. Each of these helps me learn a little more.

strcpy...armor - yes, but I found that I can't afford anything more because of flat out cost and cost of rare materials. I only have around 20 platinum. Runes - just beginning to understand them and have in general avoided any that had a health cost. What I found with the skills that give benefits for each spell cast is that because of recharge time, I wasn't casting fast enough to overcome the decrease in damage dealing. The only point benefit due to runes is that the 10 in energy storage includes +2. I wondered about skill points and why I'm no longer getting them. Figured there is a maximum and I was at it. Didn't know how many was max. I'll look around for more. Also true of my heroes...some don't have very many. I've never been real satisfied with Ward Against Melee, but saw some advantage. I currently am not using it. Final comments - correct on experimenting, and I have been doing some. I'm learning a lot, but am having the same difficulty as I've had with WoW, LoTR and others I've played. I started out with CoH/CoV, and have more or less migrated around with my son. CoH/CoV was my favorite because the configuration (weapons, skills, armor, etc. equivalents) were simpler to manage. So, while the unlimited degree of configurations in GW (also WoW and LoTR) are a welcome feature for avid gamers, it's a necessary evil for me. In CoH/CoV, I enjoyed devising tactics to accomplish objectives rather than juggling my character's configuration. And, regarding old...you're right, 30 isn't! . My son's older than that. I am 64.

quickmonty...thanks for the welcome. You won't see any abuse coming from me. I apologize for that multiple series of replies. Wasn't thinking when I started through those replies, just hit quick reply as I read them. I know better! The attempts that failed, I didn't have any self-heal, but the attempt that succeeded, I had a little. Correct...I needed that. As for taking the groups one at a time...always. There was one failed attempt when two groups came together just after I attacked...I think they were too close and one of the guards pulled the second group.

Monk of Demise...I tried those two skills earlier per Darkobra's post and found that my recharge was keeping me from casting frequently enough - I think that's what was going on. So I replaced fire attunement with something that got me some quicker recharge damage dealing, and it helped.

Crom The Pale...yup! Should have more defense, but I guess I'm not experienced enough to find the balance between damage dealing and defense. That's the name of the game, isn't it! As for the skills you suggest, I only recognize a few of them, so will need to look around for the others and experiment. Thanks for the suggestion.

All...thanks for the ongoing suggestions. It continues my education. I may never get to be as good as most folks whose posts I read here, but when I play with my son or my wife (she's almost as old as I am and also plays!), maybe I can be a help instead of a hindrance. Incidentally, FWIW...I started with Nightfall, and my son gave me Prophecies for Christmas, so I play a R/E in Prophecies, and this E/R has crossed over at Lion's Arch and is playing in the Prophecies area as well as in Nightfall. Generally speaking, there's only a few quests that I've had trouble with when I can use my heroes and henchmen. But that solo Tihark Orchards quest has been a bear for me both times I've done it.

Thanks again!
Optiker

My daughter is older than that too! But I'm only 59, old-timer.

Probably hasn't gotten far enough in nightfall for Sandstorm if he's on Tihark. From his posts, I assume this might be his first character. I also don't think he's running an elite at all in his original skill set, so he may not have capped any yet.

That's WAY more than enough for a set of max armor - I think you are looking at prestige sets that are intended for experienced players (the have the same stats as what I'm posting below, they just look different). Check out the armorer in the Consulate Docks. The cheapest set of armor (currently) for an ele is the Istani Armor - four pieces. It has a bas cost of 4 platinum, 180 cloth is currently 2340 gold, and the 28 bolts of silk is 2800 gold. For those pieces of armor it will cost 9.14 platinum. The flame eye has a base cost of one plat plus 25 piles of glittering dust at 450 gold. That puts the grand total for all five pieces of max AL elementalist armor at 10.59 platinum - that leaves enough for most of your runes *and* insignias. Of course, this is from the traders and their prices aren't fixed, however it shouldn't change *that* much.

If you are an Elonan born character (Nightfall) you get them in the Sunspear great hall for your sunspear ranks. Just press "k" to open your skills window and decrease all your attribute lines to zero and see how many points you have to spend - if less than 200 then go to the sunspear great hall on Istan.

If I recall correctly heroes gain their first 15 at level 15 and their second at level 20. At the least their additional 30 points are awarded at specific levels.

It isn't a bad skill, I use it quite often - it just wasn't helping you against non-melee damage which was what was killing you.

I've known quite a number of gamers older than that - especially in games like this that aren't based on eyesight, reflexes, or anything the 16-18 year olds have in abundance. They are based more on paying attention and thinking things through which you should be able to do just fine.

A good rule of thumb in this game is as follows (and this is true for almost any class, though of course there are exceptions): Four attack, three heals, and one resurrection skill. "Heals" can be actual healing (like Aura of Restoration) or damage mitigation (like "Ward against Melee"). For an ele I generally find that my energy management skill (such as fire attunement) can easily take a slot from either attack or healing - skills like that are kinda in between and is more based on the rest of my team which way I go.

Quaker...cool! Always nice to see others from our generation.

Vanilla...Assume you are talking about signet of capture and capturing elite skills. Correct...that E/R character has signet of capture - if I recall, got it over in Prophecies - but not using it. In Prophecies, I wasn't seeing elite skills in bosses I checked. My first Nightfall character is a lvl 20 R/E that I usually play with my son, and he also has signet of capture, and I've grabbed several elite skills for him. So, I know what you're talking about, but haven't benefited this character yet.

strcpy...very helpful post for me. I will take a look at that armor. Most places I've checked on armor, it's been at or below the 45 armor I already have. What I found at Kodash Bazaar is 60 armor, but way more than I can afford. I checked the Wiki, but I guess we'll have to call it a senior moment that I overlooked the 60 armor available at consulate docks. I'll get right on that! Thanks!

I checked and I do have 200 points...the way I have it distributed, I have 7 left unspent.

Regarding older players...absolutely correct! I remember quite a few years ago when my son introduced me to Quake. I did OK until I went online and tried to play there...didn't last long. FPS is not for me! I avoid PvP...can't compete with all you amazingly quick, coordinated and skilled young guys (and gals!).

Thanks for the "rule of thumb". Sounds like a good thing to try. As you can see by my skills in an earlier post, I've tended to try to go heavy in damage with a distribution of energy costs, and relying more on Dunkoro to keep me healed - thus the problem with the solo quest,

Thanks for the excellent replies...I suspect the effect will be to improve my character significantly.

Optiker

Optiker, here's a tip for you. Every single time you come across an armour merchant, talk to him. He might have better armour, he might have the same armour but a nicer looking version. But as for your elementalist, you now have the maximum available armour.

Ward Against Melee is actually very good. It mitigates at least 50% of the incoming damage from melee, but for casters, you're still going to take the full grunt of the damage. It's more of a team-based skill to protect yourself and other casters. Ward Against Elements gives you a little extra armour against an elemental onslaught. Every piece of defence all adds up.

I love playing caster classes in every game I play. I normally like sword users, but in games like GW, they're just far too slow paced.

That is the second most expensive armor in the game, for a full set you are looking at *at least* several hundred plat (I'm not sure what the going rate of the gems are now).

As far as I know in Nightfall there are only two max armor (60al for you) crafters and they are at the Consulate Docks and (if I recall correctly) there is one somewhere around the command post. Any armorer after that is "prestige" armor (some people who have played GW a long enough time will call it "ascended armor" also - I tend too fairly often). These are generally a more detailed skin and, as the name implies, is purchased for vanities sake. Both because they usually - but not always - look better and is a way to shout to the world "I have lots of gold!".

In Prophecies the same level of armor is available in Droknar's Forge, in Factions it is in and around Kaineng Center. They have different skins available - check the wiki and pick one of the armors that doesn't say "prestige" or "ascended" that you like and get it. 20k should be enough for pretty much any of them, even the more expensive ones.

I used to play some FPS, even at 30 the reflexes and hand-eye coordination go enough to not be able to compete at the higher levels not to mention jobs and families. Though for PvP in GW it still normally isn't so much twitch based (however a few builds are) but are more in team coordination. Most of the decent teams are using voice to coordinate through Team Speak or Ventrillo, even if you are the God of Gaming it is nearly impossible to compete against a team using that. If you just want to have fun with PvP then look at some of the random arena's, I'll sometimes goof off in them but I don't enjoy PvP for other reasons (my normal level of play is "above average" and my time available is "below average" - therefore I either tend to carry a team or am the person causing them to loose. Neither is really much fun, same is true in twitch based PvP).

Darkobra...haven't upgraded armor yet, but logged off in Consolate Docks at the armorer to remind me to do it next time I'm on - in about 15 minutes. As for Ward of Melee, I guess it's currently the skill I've sacrificed to free up a slot for testing other skills - decisions, decisions, decisions!

strcpy...since I'm pretty function oriented - couldn't care less about appearance - I'm all for least expensive that gets highest armor. In the main "Armorer" page of the Wiki, looks like the one in Consulate Docks is the only 60 level armor I'd be interested in. Looks like, if I'm reading the chart right, there are six 60 level armorers. The one in Consulate Docks costs 1p, then it jumps to 5p for Vabbian armor in The Kodash Bazaar, and goes up from there.

Regarding your comment on jobs and family, I assume you're referring to the amount of time needed to compete at that level. Since I'm retired, I don't have the job limitation, but there's still family, and the other challenge is then to not let games be my life - too many other interests to spend the time needed to get really good in any game, FPS, MMORPG or otherwise. After all, at my age, I need more physical exercise than a keyboard can give, so I've got to reserve enough time for golf three times a week - pull cart, not riding. With 8" of snow on the ground, substitute a snow shovel for a driver!

Optiker

Yes. Testing other skills and playing around with different builds is a good idea. There are places where you will need to make some changes to be more effective.

Don't do the golf thing, but as an older person I do know the need for physical activity. My preference is hitting the gym several times a week. Not only do I get a good workout but I get a chance to enjoy the view (lots of lovely younger women in fine physical shape )

Just to clarify - there are two "non-elite" (i.e. basic) armor crafters. One at Consulate Docks and the other is in the Command Post - which is off of Sunspear Sanctuary. (Actually, once you complete a few quests, there are 2 armor crafters in Command Post - the regular one and an "elite" one.)
At any rate, the basic armor crafter in Command Post and on the Consulate Docks have the exact same "Sunspear Armor", so either place will do.

Optiker - contact me in-game if you need help with getting the armor. I have lots of materials I can give/sell cheap.

quickmonty...Appreciate the gym benefits My doc says the best exercise is one I enjoy enough to actually continue to do after the novelty wears off. Gym exercise is not for me. Played tennis for years until the second groin pull - couldn't seem to keep myself from trying for saves that were better let go. Golf works for me, and since I walk briskly with a pull cart, it suits my needs. And, being about as good a golfer as I am at GW, I get lots of extra exercise because I rarely take the shortest distance to the green! Other duffers will understand that!

Quaker...thanks for the offer, but already done. Had to buy some silk - prefer Istani to Sunspear...my one small token of vanity. But, had enough to do it. Also salvaged what runes/insignia I could from the old and upgraded the new, and bought a few more, so think I'm in pretty good shape there.

Optiker

what about those guards out there
if you haven't finished mission yet those guards follow it seems
but yes always buy armor of Consulate docks if you can't afford the high prestige armor ^^

They say that the Wii is actually a good workout! (not kidding.)

Well, if you need help with anything else, just whisper me. I'm also retired, so I'm around at various times.

(In fact, I just saw that you were in-game a few minutes ago while I was checking if any of my Guru Auction customers were on-line. If you're looking for any weapons/mods/inscriptions, chances are I have one.)

What I would suggest before that is to go to wiki and see what armor you like and which is better.

Nice to see some more older players here. I'm 52.

It is! We have it and I love it.

Yay for the oldies!!

I'm 49 and my 'partner' a year younger - we have fun showing the youngsters how to do it, so have no fear about that!

On your original point - I both enjoyed and hated Tihark with my Ranger - ended up taking a load of poisons and a poisonous bow. That last group is a pain - ended up running round to get behind them and that saw them off.

As for your armour - yeah - Consulate Docks is nicest unless you can get to Droknar's Forge - the ELE armour is as nice and not much more expensive. Once you have it - don't over rune, have one for energy storage and one for your chosen 'magic' then use the remaining spaces for a major vigor then attunements - keeps energy high then.

Hope you have fun in GW!

Also if I may give a quick suggestion, take out maybe 15 minutes and save your skill build in the templates (Hit "K" and hit the disc icon next to your profession name - Save) Name it whatever you want. Now go to each attribute line (Fire, Water, Air, Earth) and max out the attributes in one line and throw together skills in that line and try out a build in each attribute. If you get crushed outside, remake or tweak the build a little.

Thats what I eventually had to do when fire was no longer working in a certain area. I had to force myself to try other skills. Play around with it, and who knows you might like a different element better. Have fun you seem like a good guy.

Quaker...thanks for the offer. Hopefully I won't need to take you up on it.

Commander Ryker...I have been reading the wiki a good bit lately, most recently on armor. But, given that I don't care much about appearance, now that I'm at 60 armor, I think I'm done messing with it for this character for a while. I have just about given up checking collectors - I don't recall the last time I found anything I wanted AND had the stuff to exchange. The amount of time I spent trying to find Drake Flesh for Bokka's (sp?) Feast kinda turned me off to gong looking for specific collectible stuff, and, it seems I never know what's worth saving without a lot of wiki study. I guess my style is pretty casual - I'd rather explore and fight than study the game, even if my character configuration isn't optimum. Yes, agree, nice to see older guys.

Lyndka...not sure about showing any youngsters how to do it - they're way ahead of me. Now that I know about the armorer at Consulate Docks, probably won't bother with others since I'm mainly interested in function, not appearance. 49, huh? You have a biggie coming along, don't you!

Wirt...interesting suggestion. I just may try that, especially since I chose Ranger for secondary because my earlier characters were rangers, and I typically prefer standoff, not in-close, and I thought maybe I'd want a pet. However, I've found that I'm not using any ranger skills at all. I toyed with getting a longbow for pulling from a distance, but didn't want to have to mess with skill point distribution just to use it, so didn't do it. Interestingly enough, I find that my rangers (2 in NF and 1 in Proph) are using a good many elementalist skills - all are elementalist secondaries. So, I'm thinking I might change my secondary on the lvl 20 E/R to monk as suggested earlier and see if that's of any benefit. I am having a hard time using one or two secondary skills and thus needing to dilute my skill points - seems better to focus them in fewer areas. I have a feeling that there's a lot to learn in this area, but not sure I want to spend the time to get there.

Thanks all for the continued interesting discussion. Y'all are a good group to be chatting with. I have some other questions, so will be posting other threads as I have time, and will watch for y'all.

Optiker

Optiker - I rarely use skills from my secondary, except Rebirth (monk res). I think the same way you do and max out an elemental line. I only use 2ary skills if i need something specific. Also you dont need any points in attributes for you to use a long bow for pulling. The bow shot only gets their attention, but does little damage.

But yea mess around with different skills, who knows you might be posting a new kick butt build that nobody uses. Have fun.

As another oldie here, I had heck of a time with this one and wanted masters so had my hubbie do the mime for me cause he's faster than I am at figuring out what the heck he was doing. Otherwise I'd never have gotten it.
kitkat54