well my theory/idea is, all (or some) of the players who have full storage of gold (there are quite a few i bet), all just start buying ecto/shards/whatever from the trader, thus sky rocketing the price. they will of course then re sell to trader/players for profit thus making more gold and making ecto/shards/whatever worth the time to farm again
just an idea, i know i have seen a few people post "why are ecto so cheap"
/dons flame suit just incase
economic theory/idea
flclisgreat
Lord Darksoul
A problem with your idea is that regular people sell ectos at lower prices than do the traders. Though in the long term they'd probably make a profit by buying ectos at such a huge scale, the truth of the matter is is that no rich people would synchronize on such a thing, and something tells me ANet would just reset the prices to make everyone hate them more
Zinger314
Monopolizing an item only works if an item is in limited supply. Ectos/Shards aren't.
Learn some economics.
Learn some economics.
Onarik Amrak
Pure genius, this isn't.
Arnack
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Monopolizing an item only works if an item is in limited supply. Ectos/Shards aren't.
Learn some economics. |
I already did.
Anyways, Guild Wars flamers are so lame. lmfao.
pumpkin pie
how are you going to make all the rich players do that?
lacasner
The only thing I agree with from the OP is that ecto prices are cheap and need to rise.
Zeek Aran
Okay, proof of fail on third post. Close now?
mmmkay i am bad
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Monopolizing an item only works if an item is in limited supply. Ectos/Shards aren't.
Learn some economics. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by flclisgreat
"why are ecto so cheap"
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Songbringer
So all the rich people should use there money to buff the economy for a few months so poor people can sell ectos for a few k more......get real /kickintheface *take that flame suit*
Cale Roughstar
To this grand ol' idea, I say..... lolwut?
LifeInfusion
unlimited supply and stagnant demand says otherwise.
And who in their right mind buys from the trader?
And who in their right mind buys from the trader?
Biostem
OP: the beauty of GW is that things like ectos or shards are pure fluff - they aren't needed to get max stuff, and so really don't count for anything. Add to that the fact that there is no limited supply of them, and that you're banking on people paying the inflated prices from the traders, and you end up w/ a scheme that will likely backfire.
Kerwyn Nasilan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arnack
I'd say learn to get a life but...
I already did. Anyways, Guild Wars flamers are so lame. lmfao. |
Failure
flclisgreat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Songbringer
So all the rich people should use there money to buff the economy for a few months so poor people can sell ectos for a few k more......get real /kickintheface *take that flame suit*
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well have you noticed in the last few days ecto went up a few days ago, then way down yesterday or so. so someone somewhere is buying/selling large amounts of ecto from/to trader
HawkofStorms
Even the top 20 richest players in Guild Wars couldn't intentionally manipulate the price of crafting materials (according the Herbalizer... one of those top 20 richest guys) unless they used duped stuff, but even then that doesn't work since ambraces can not be quickly converted to gold.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arnack
I'd say learn to get a life but...
I already did. Anyways, Guild Wars flamers are so lame. lmfao. |
Econ 101 - LIMITED RESOURCES
DOESN'T APPLY HERE.
arcanemacabre
The trader always buys for higher than it sells for; so I don't really understand what you mean about someone buying a bunch of ecto to make the trader price rise, and then sell it back to make a profit. That just plain doesn't make sense. No matter what, if they bought from the trader, they will be in the hole - period.
Now, if you're working with the theory that someone with a crap-load of money can alter the prices by buying from or selling to the materials trader, that is true, but only by marginal amounts, which would very shortly be balanced back out by everyone else in the game doing their normal routines. The game is simply too big, and too old, with too much money/items floating around for even the richest player to make a noticeable dent anywhere.
Now, if you're working with the theory that someone with a crap-load of money can alter the prices by buying from or selling to the materials trader, that is true, but only by marginal amounts, which would very shortly be balanced back out by everyone else in the game doing their normal routines. The game is simply too big, and too old, with too much money/items floating around for even the richest player to make a noticeable dent anywhere.
flclisgreat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
The trader always buys for higher than it sells for; so I don't really understand what you mean about someone buying a bunch of ecto to make the trader price rise, and then sell it back to make a profit. That just plain doesn't make sense. No matter what, if they bought from the trader, they will be in the hole - period.
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in theory
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Now, if you're working with the theory that someone with a crap-load of money can alter the prices by buying from or selling to the materials trader, that is true, but only by marginal amounts, which would very shortly be balanced back out by everyone else in the game doing their normal routines. The game is simply too big, and too old, with too much money/items floating around for even the richest player to make a noticeable dent anywhere.
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this might be true i have no proof either way
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by flclisgreat
you would at least break even over the LONG run. say you spent full storage of gold on ecto from trader regardless of price. say 1 stack at 5.5k each-2 stacks at 6k each-x stacks at 6.5-7k each and so on till broke. then wait a while till the price settles to that high price. then started gradually sell ing all those ecto to trader at the higher price(considering the trader "should" be paying closer to what they are selling for after you bought who knows how many stacks). you should break even or close to it, for buying all those ecto at 5-xxk each and selling for xxk each or so
in theory |
It just plain is not possible to make money by buying from the trader, unless you are lucky enough to get something before outside influences (favor changes, quest changes, etc.) affect drop rates or a new gold sink is introduced (or a trader reset happens LOL). Basically, Anet has complete control by their actions over the economy; players only wish they did.
The only other way to make money this way was pretty much abolished when the Europe and American servers merged. Basically, the prices were vastly different and people could make money on the differences, buying the lower priced and moving to the other server to sell the higher priced.
flclisgreat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
No, wouldn't work like that. The ecto have a balanced rate of 5.5k right now. If you bought enough to raise it to, let's say for the helluvit: 8k, then waited, the rate would only decrease back to 5.5k. It might take a couple of weeks, or months, but the price would only decrease, and it would balance back out. Plus, once you started selling them back, that very act would drop the price as dramatically as it raised the price when buying. You would be out at least 1.5k per ecto because of the price difference between buying and selling with the trader, so at best, you would lose that much if you sold right away.
It just plain is not possible to make money by buying from the trader, unless you are lucky enough to get something before outside influences (favor changes, quest changes, etc.) affect drop rates or a new gold sink is introduced (or a trader reset happens LOL). Basically, Anet has complete control by their actions over the economy; players only wish they did. The only other way to make money this way was pretty much abolished when the Europe and American servers merged. Basically, the prices were vastly different and people could make money on the differences, buying the lower priced and moving to the other server to sell the higher priced. |
one thing i would love though, is if everyone would stop using ecto in trades as a base of 5k each, no one pays 5k each anymore, most is 4.8k each.
people please for the love of all that you consider holy, count ecto at 4.8k each or lower, cause the trader price is 4.9k each to buy. who just sold hella ecto to the trader?
edit: and thanks for having a real discussion about this with me(in before possible lock..)
October Jade
Just to clear up a recurring misconception...
The supply of any given item isn't unlimited. It's a very finite function of droprate and the number of hours that people spend farming it. If it were truly unlimited, things like ecto would cost as much as it does to breathe.
The supply of any given item isn't unlimited. It's a very finite function of droprate and the number of hours that people spend farming it. If it were truly unlimited, things like ecto would cost as much as it does to breathe.
lutz
Good ol' collusion.
Skyy High
Quote:
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Originally Posted by October Jade
Just to clear up a recurring misconception...
The supply of any given item isn't unlimited. It's a very finite function of droprate and the number of hours that people spend farming it. If it were truly unlimited, things like ecto would cost as much as it does to breathe. |
Snow Bunny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
I believe when Zingeri and others said "limitless", they meant, "you can always get more." It's the same thing with gold; in real life, there's a controlled amount of dollar bills in circulation at any one time. Ingame, if you want gold, voila, you can "print" your own. Same with ectos; they're not being traded like stocks, they're constantly being created, traded, and deleted (by means of armor crafters). Hence, the potential number of ectos are limitless, because they can always be farmed, so the price can only go up so high before the influx of new ecto into the system balance it back to what it was.
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Ecto remains unlimited in every sense of the word, just like gold remains absolutely unlimited as well.
You can't apply real world economics to Guild Wars, if only with sparingly basic concepts that should be obvious at first glance.
And, to make a dent in Ecto price, these rich players would have to purchase all the ecto in order to drive it up. Trader price goes up the more you buy from him. However, that itself would ultimately be a net loss, for even all the ecto purchased would make such a miniscule dent, even if they all banded together to do it, that it'd without a doubt be a net loss.
/sigh
Martin Alvito
Some points:
1. Your proposal represents a classic collective action problem. You want a bunch of decentralized actors to band together and do something that is ostensibly in their self-interest. It won't happen; if you asked me to do that, I'd agree, wait for you to buy up ectos and then I'd start selling my stash and undercut you. Basic game theory.
2. There are probably billions of ectos out there. Putting a dent in the global supply would be impossible.
3. While the supply is theoretically unbounded, it IS finite at any given point in time. You could in principle apply economics if you knew the rate at which ectos/gold are created and destroyed.
4. The rapid reequilibriation of increases in ecto prices at the trader implies that there are a lot of ectos out there that players would prefer to dump, given a small price fluctuation. Your proposal would require absorbing all of those costs up front, and I seriously doubt that even a collective of the game's 100 wealthiest players could absorb those costs without going broke.
1. Your proposal represents a classic collective action problem. You want a bunch of decentralized actors to band together and do something that is ostensibly in their self-interest. It won't happen; if you asked me to do that, I'd agree, wait for you to buy up ectos and then I'd start selling my stash and undercut you. Basic game theory.
2. There are probably billions of ectos out there. Putting a dent in the global supply would be impossible.
3. While the supply is theoretically unbounded, it IS finite at any given point in time. You could in principle apply economics if you knew the rate at which ectos/gold are created and destroyed.
4. The rapid reequilibriation of increases in ecto prices at the trader implies that there are a lot of ectos out there that players would prefer to dump, given a small price fluctuation. Your proposal would require absorbing all of those costs up front, and I seriously doubt that even a collective of the game's 100 wealthiest players could absorb those costs without going broke.
Malice Black
Just wow.....
Zinger <3
Zinger <3
October Jade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
I believe when Zingeri and others said "limitless", they meant, "you can always get more." It's the same thing with gold; in real life, there's a controlled amount of dollar bills in circulation at any one time.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
You can't apply real world economics to Guild Wars, if only with sparingly basic concepts that should be obvious at first glance.
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I see that you attend Yale and that your writing skills are acceptable, so I'm assuming that you are more than functionally intelligent. In this situation, though, you were misinformed.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
truth
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Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
It is limitless. The game will continue to spawn more ecto for players to farm. Gold, as a resource, however, is not infinite. The Earth will not 'spawn' more gold for people to mine, it is finite, and thus aids in the decision of monetary value for economies still based on gold (yes, it still exists).
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I'm not convinced the differences between real and virtual economies are so important, though there are clearly major differences as you pointed out. (I'd even go as far as saying that MMOs are closer to real life that most game and probably even most computer programs as people conceptualise them better, but I digress)
Martin Alvito, October Jade: think about participating here
flclisgreat
one thing that would be nice, in material/rare material trader, is if they said how many of each item they had.
Malice Black
Sorry, but what do any of you know of the real world economy?
Mr Grad school - Texts book mean jack in the real world, remember that.
Mr Grad school - Texts book mean jack in the real world, remember that.
credit
Yeah go learn some books on economics.
JoeKnowMo
If you could recruit the majority of ecto farmers as well as those in possession of large amounts of ectos into a guild, you might be able to create something close to an oligopoly. Your guild could then set out to purchase ectos from non-guildies at a slightly higher rate (+100g) than the market.
Other buyers would then be forced to purchase ectos from the trader, thus gradually driving ecto prices up. Without knowing the precise demand for ectos or the rate at which ecto purchases from the trader increase prices, it is difficult to say how profitable this venture would be.
Your profits are diminished by the presence of a trader with a large supply that replenishes periodically as well as the presence of ecto farmers not in your guild who may increase their farming and selling as soon as prices. As Martin Alvito points out, undercutting by those within your guild would also cut into potential profits.
You would still make a profit, however, because the value of in-game money is short-lived compared to money irl. Even if buyers got the sense that prices were being artificially inflated, most of them wouldn't wait for prices to come down. Just how much of a profit you would make and whether it would be worth the effort is uncertain.
Other buyers would then be forced to purchase ectos from the trader, thus gradually driving ecto prices up. Without knowing the precise demand for ectos or the rate at which ecto purchases from the trader increase prices, it is difficult to say how profitable this venture would be.
Your profits are diminished by the presence of a trader with a large supply that replenishes periodically as well as the presence of ecto farmers not in your guild who may increase their farming and selling as soon as prices. As Martin Alvito points out, undercutting by those within your guild would also cut into potential profits.
You would still make a profit, however, because the value of in-game money is short-lived compared to money irl. Even if buyers got the sense that prices were being artificially inflated, most of them wouldn't wait for prices to come down. Just how much of a profit you would make and whether it would be worth the effort is uncertain.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Sorry, but what do any of you know of the real world economy?
Mr Grad school - Texts book mean jack in the real world, remember that. |
Unless this guy wants guild wars to be 1974 Chile
That would be bad....maybe that's what ANet intended?
October Jade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Sorry, but what do any of you know of the real world economy?
Mr Grad school - Texts book mean jack in the real world, remember that. |
Flame harder, please.
The Fox
To toy with your request...
A better idea would be to have every guild wars player go into an instanced area and drop all their gold on the ground until everyone was broke, then people need to sell off all their stuff and start over.
OR
There could be a patch where Rurik decided to tax everyone for 99% of their take home adventure profits, which he would then redistribute to between all players!
OR
You could accept the fact that inflation exists in every video game and get use to prices dropping as the game is constantly played and new money is created. The Fed has nothing on Guild Wars!!!
QFT
A better idea would be to have every guild wars player go into an instanced area and drop all their gold on the ground until everyone was broke, then people need to sell off all their stuff and start over.
OR
There could be a patch where Rurik decided to tax everyone for 99% of their take home adventure profits, which he would then redistribute to between all players!
OR
You could accept the fact that inflation exists in every video game and get use to prices dropping as the game is constantly played and new money is created. The Fed has nothing on Guild Wars!!!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Monopolizing an item only works if an item is in limited supply. Ectos/Shards aren't.
Learn some economics. |
JoeKnowMo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Malice Black
Mr Grad school - Texts book mean jack in the real world, remember that.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Fox
You could accept the fact that inflation exists in every video game and get use to prices dropping as the game is constantly played and new money is created.
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cloudbunny
I guess the real economy has had more dramatic ups and downs than most game economies.
As examples of people playing the market and fail...the silver crash in the 1980's comes to mind. An event were some won a lot and some lost even more is the tulip mania in Holland in the 1630's.
Some people tried it with some success in GW the first summer, when they made a coordinated buyout of black dye. The price rose 2-3 times the initial value before Anet intervened and changed how the merchants responded to demand and supply and at the same time resetting prices at the traders. Giving people with money a short oppertunity to buy very cheap ectos and other expensive commodities.
I doubt it would be possible to do today with ectos.
Regards,
Cloudbunny
As examples of people playing the market and fail...the silver crash in the 1980's comes to mind. An event were some won a lot and some lost even more is the tulip mania in Holland in the 1630's.
Some people tried it with some success in GW the first summer, when they made a coordinated buyout of black dye. The price rose 2-3 times the initial value before Anet intervened and changed how the merchants responded to demand and supply and at the same time resetting prices at the traders. Giving people with money a short oppertunity to buy very cheap ectos and other expensive commodities.
I doubt it would be possible to do today with ectos.
Regards,
Cloudbunny