Automated Mouse Movements? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

29 Jan 2008 at 16:04 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Making any of the things suggested in sardelact would solve all of that.

Work like sweets.
(...)

Yea, drunkard is a bit awkward to do.
But I do not like Sweet Tooth either. Not because of botting or something else, the whole idea is questionable.

Invest XXX gold in 1000 items or collect them for a title, then click till you have swallowed them all?

The only thing that I find even dumber is the death levelling in Ascalon title, Legendary Defender of Ascalon. The title itself sounds as so much much more than that! Death Levelling as legendary achievement???

So as I said, get rid of stupid titles, and we do not even have to care about people botting them. As I said, I would rather blame ANet than people that take the easy and illegal route.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

29 Jan 2008 at 16:51 - 42

Death leveling's only a part of that title. The Legendary part comes from killing those Charr bosses over and over again until you get to level16. It's not like you death level the entire way.

And saying that we should blame ANet for holding the carrots in front of us when people cheat to obtain said carrots is the same idiotic argument that the exploiters used to excuse the fact that they wanted to kill Mallyx repeatedly. There are difficult, time consuming goals in this game; there are also easy goals, short goals, challenging goals, gameplay-oriented goals. Pick a goal that suits your playstyle and stop complaining that there exist other goals that you don't want to work for...because that's someone else's content you're whining about.

As to the actual OP, I definitely think Gaile's said that any kind of drinking macro is illegal, but definitely not as high on their ban-list as, say, duping or exploiting. It's also probably harder to identify...but you take your risks.

Ekelon

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Rebel Rising [rawr]

A/W

29 Jan 2008 at 18:21 - 43

/not-signed

but....

Pretty soon, bots will own the world. People will be botting in top lvl gvg's and HB's. I know it! Many have already accused me as a bot when I play HB. I just say yes... cuz clearly bots are smarter than them and can beat them 1v1.

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

29 Jan 2008 at 18:30 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

Pretty soon, bots will own the world.

Ctb

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

29 Jan 2008 at 18:37 - 45

I side with the technicality people. Technically it's a bot, technically it's against the EULA, technically you can get banned. So, while practically you can PROBABLY get away with it, technically you can DEFINITELY be banned for it if that probability doesn't play out in your favor.

Here's my question: if you acknowledge the incontrovertible fact that the entire Drunkard title is a pathetic waste of time in the eyes of most people, apparently including yourself, why do you care if you have it?

Pleikki

WTB q8 15^50 Weapons!

Join Date: Nov 2006

???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]

29 Jan 2008 at 19:19 - 46

it would be awesome if it could be allowed though i wouldnt need it. Got my Drunk After winterday 2006 with spiked eggs While sitting In Toa and Looking movies.

credit

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008

Team Apathy [aFk]

W/P

29 Jan 2008 at 19:43 - 47

People use this to leech Aspenwood, I'm not going to lie I've done it and never got a ban or warning or whatever, but have since stopped since FA/AB are pointless.

Operative 14

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Arizona, USA

[OOP] Order of the Phoenix I

29 Jan 2008 at 21:20 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by echX

....
exit into the Ice Chasms, aggro a Polar Bear, lure him over to the resurrect shrine, strip your armor and let him kill you for 1½ hours... Go to the mall, have a coffee, return home and put on the armor, charm it and Violá!!!! Your brand new Dire/Hearty/Whatever Polar Bear

Or...

Enter the Shing Jea overlook, buy tons and tons of Festival Tickets, go stand on one of those ring thingys... Go to bed and wake up a Lucky Bastard ^^

Or...

Enter Kamadan during the Vinterday Festival, stock up on Candy Cane Shards, go stand on the corresponding Grenth/Dwayna side round thingy... Go to school/work/whatever and come home to a bunch of free I-was-afk Christmas Gifts/Presents/whatever they are called...

There is a huge difference between what you are talking about there and what you are defending in your original post. AFKing while you're at a festival, or when you're death leveling a pet does not involve a third party program to automate mouse movements or key strokes. That's just how it the game is programmed. You do not use a bot program to accomplish those. In your OP's situation you are most definitely using a bot.

My question is, how long until he starts using this nifty little program to automate other things he doesn't like to do? Using it to automate drinking is harmless, I'll grant you that. But where do you draw the line between harmless and harmful? How much more harmful is it, then, for him to use it to farm for gold so he can use it to buy other drinks?

And are you seriously trying to defend your friend using a bot program to get a drunkard title in a game by comparing it to the morals of murdering someone versus killing someone to defend our families...? o.0

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

29 Jan 2008 at 21:26 - 49

As long as you aren't botting for gold farming and stuff, and not adversely impacting other players in the game, I can say with 99% confidence you aren't going to get banned. Even if they do 'catch' you, which I seriously doubt they would unless you were online for 6 days straight, there is no incentive for them to ban you.

wu is me

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

29 Jan 2008 at 21:26 - 50

I think the main thing to be concerned of is:

"§7... You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input."

That is to say... not ALL "third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the service". Just the ones they think are harmful.

I think Gaile has already stated that the sorts of programs that automatically drink alcohol for you "(are not of great concern/ a priority)"[can't remember exactly what she said], as was the case with texmod and cartography.

Cheers!

Relnor

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

29 Jan 2008 at 21:59 - 51

There are a ton of people that have done this, and there are even more still doing it now. I haven't heard of a single ban coming from this. I'd say go for it.

MarlinBackna

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

[TAM]

W/

29 Jan 2008 at 22:18 - 52

I think that Anet's bot behavior monitor (so-called...) would not be able to pick up one double-click every minute. I mean, bots do sophisticated behaviors like talking to NPC's and moving and using skills and doing the same list of many button presses over a long time that can easily be seen by Anet. I don't think that Anet can differentiate between normal double clickage and macroed double clickage.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

29 Jan 2008 at 22:29 - 53

I have used a well known "GUI automation program" to sell stacks of 250 deldrimor steel to the traders back in the days of prophecies. It was technically an automated game playing bot, but I refuse to spend an hour clicking two buttons.

Should I have been banned for it?

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

29 Jan 2008 at 22:49 - 54

drunkard is lame anyway. I think Arenanet shouldn't bother banning people that MACRO (not Bot) the title. I think Gaile said herself they won't look for people that drunkard macro (I mean seriously, timed clicks isn't stellar enough to ruin the game).

It's repetitive but it is a title.

macro = just keystrokes, bot = autiomation. There's a difference. (like in excel those are macros)

P.S. if you think I say this because I macro Drunkard, I'll have you know I have 0 points in drunkard.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

29 Jan 2008 at 23:42 - 55

Really it can't be as bad as the cartographer texmod usage! Still, its probably not allowed (but not monitored)

Phaern Majes

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Anywhere but up

The Panserbjorne [ROAR]

R/Mo

29 Jan 2008 at 23:46 - 56

Its just a matter if you're willing to take the risk or not. Anet has stated before that they don't necessarily track down and punish every account using a program. I really doubt they would ban you over it, but I'm not saying they won't ban merely that they probably have better things to do then ban people using it to consume alcohol.

Roland of Gilead

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/

30 Jan 2008 at 00:36 - 57

Go to the official Wiki. Go to article "Bot". Go to that article's talk page. Go to section "ethical botting question" or somesuch. Read that discussion.

The essence of that discussion: A macro that plays the game for you while you could be doing something else away from the computer is considered botting and therefore explicitely forbidden by the UA. However, Gaile stated in that thread that drunkard bots are a lower priority than, say, gold farming bots. But if you used a "drunkard bot" and got banned for it, you would have no legal standing to get that ban lifted. So use at your own risk.

Snograt

rattus rattus

Join Date: Jan 2006

London, UK GMT??0 ??1hr DST

[GURU]GW [wiki]GW2

R/

30 Jan 2008 at 01:19 - 58

Or this, an official answer from Gaile re: click macros -

Quote:

We cannot condone or support the use of macros. For one thing, a lot of macros contain trojans or other malware, and we're not about to get into a situation where we're advocating the use of a program that puts bad things on a player's computer. Now, if the question is about whether we would block an account of someone using one, the answer would depend on whether the macro was being used to give advantage, to exploit the game, etc. In other words, if the use of a macro were of no detriment to the community, we would be less likely to take action than one that clearly had negative consequences. But if this is a request for us to say "That macro is harmless, please feel free to use it," I am afraid that I absolutely cannot say that. --Gaile 00:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

So there you go - er, sort of.

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

30 Jan 2008 at 02:11 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

Or this, an official answer from Gaile re: click macros -
So there you go - er, sort of.

Exactly, Anet isn't some draconian authority that wants to track every single thing you do and punish you for it. They simply have a responsibility to every player in the game to provide the best playing experience they can, and to ensure that one player will not ruin the game of another or the community at large. If you are having more fun doing such and such, more power to you, but if it has negative effects on the game its their job to stop you.

Furthermore if you do use such macros, they can't explicitly step out and say its OK, because as some have mentioned the line between macroing and botting is very unclear, and we will end up at zwei2stein's example of an argument over what is and what isn't botting. So before you try anything, the best test to put it through is "Would doing this hurt the game or other players?"

Zonzai

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

E/

30 Jan 2008 at 03:08 - 60

I'd ban you. You're lucky I don't work for ANet. Of course, you may get banned now for posting this just to set an example.

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

01 Feb 2008 at 16:28 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

If you want to consume booze while playing, I have programmed a small windows applet that beeps every 1 or 3 minutes to remind you that it's time to quaff another one. Downloadable here.

Thanks for the program, it's very convenient indeed.

Shadowmoon

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/A

N/

01 Feb 2008 at 17:28 - 62

Is it against the EULA? yes
Is it bannable? yes
Would you get banned for using it? probably not, it so below A-net radar that it doesn't matter.
The question is does this cause major effect gamewide, for example would it have a great effect on economy. Farming bot program do because they cause inflation in the entire game economy by adding more gold into the market. Same with duping, same with the mallyx exploit.
If it doesn't hurt anyone besides you, think of it like Laurance vs Texas, it not worth the energy.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

01 Feb 2008 at 18:01 - 63

Just going to comment regarding Texmod and the Cartography Mod: It's not very different than coming to here and comparing your explored map to one of the 100%+ maps. The only difference is that the 100%+ map can now be used in game. Do you still have to go there? Yes. Do you still have to wall hug/hump every wall endlessly? Yes. Can you still miss spots if you go too fast? Yes.

Now at this point many people turn around and say "well ANet shouldn't endorse that kind of cheating." Well if that's the case they need to get rid of the "Help" feature that provides in-game links to the GuildWiki.

Nonetheless, I agree with Sleeper here and really hope that they allow micros in GW2. The line in what's against the EULA and what will bane you will be much, much more clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

This would be an unfair advantage.
Why? HoM.

If getting drunkard gives anything, whatever it is in GW2, then people using bots would get that much easier than players.

ANet has already said that anything earned in the HoM will not transfer over any "in-game advantage" in GW2, so anything in the HoM is just as meaningful (or meaningless, depends on your perspective) as any title.

pkodyssey

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

In a cardboard box with Internet

The Order of the Frozen Tundra (TofT)

N/

01 Feb 2008 at 21:00 - 64

Simply put --- Anet would consider it botting!

Be careful

Ulterion

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2007

defiinitely noyb

Mo/

01 Feb 2008 at 21:40 - 65

Drunkard Bot is prohibited. It is also undetectable (as far as I've heard). IMO Anet's not going to hunt down every single player and ruin their account for simply not wanting to stay glued to their seats, clicking on ales every frickin' minute. They have bigger fish to fry (like dupers/exploiters/cheaters/hackers/in-house corruption).

Conclusion: There's an extremely good chance that Anet will not waste time and energy on banning drunkard-botting.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

01 Feb 2008 at 22:30 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

macro = just keystrokes, bot = autiomation. There's a difference.

Really? What difference is that?

The game can be played entirely with "just keystrokes" as there's keyboard shortcuts for nearly every action. I could easily make a basic script to go out, farm a set of mobs, map back, and sell the loot, using just keystrokes and timing.

ANet is unlikely to care about drunkardbot, as it doesn't influence the game in any way, but it is a bot.