Why don't mesmers have more support type skills?
Winterclaw
I was just playing a little FFT on my PSP and was thinking about the Time Mage class, with it's haste spells and slow spells. It got me to thinking, why don't mesmers have anything like the buff spells? For example they could have some illusion enchantments that could give a minor buff to another characters runing speed, attack speed, casting speed, and recharge time. Maybe they could have a domination enchantment that'll increase physical attack damage or another that'd give a warrior one strike of ade every 5 seconds.
aleaf92
i agree with you. i think this is why mesmers are one of the worst characters for PvE. they make a fine secondary lol
Nevin
You my friend, basically just defined what weapon spells are. And yes, I always thought since the release of factions- Weapon spells were rightfully for the mesmers.
Quru
Well why don't monks have any interrupts eh?
Game is designed this way. AND! Guild Wars have thing called 'second profession', i prefer to use it.
Game is designed this way. AND! Guild Wars have thing called 'second profession', i prefer to use it.
MithranArkanere
Mesmers 'Inspire' by making the enemies less effective. Unlike Paragons, Monks and Ritualists, that buff allies.
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
Why don't mesmers have more support type skills?
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You can't see me
The answer to this can be found in the class description on character creation, whish states that mesmers accomplish what they wish to accomplish by manipulating their foes. I think they fit that role quite nicely. Buffing allies is a function for other classes, IMO. The only thing that gets me is why Spiteful Spirit is not a mesmer elite.
credit
So you've never heard of a paragon?
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by You can't see me
The only thing that gets me is why Spiteful Spirit is not a mesmer elite.
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Winterclaw
I think SS isn't a mes skill because the devs were spiteful of the class.
True, but paragons are buff+attack, monks are defensive buff plus heals, and rits are your "bard" class. What I'm suggesting for mesmers is to be more buff/debuff instead of just debuff (which is a necro thing already).
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Originally Posted by Mithran
Mesmers 'Inspire' by making the enemies less effective. Unlike Paragons, Monks and Ritualists, that buff allies.
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Phoenix Tears
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Originally Posted by Nevin
You my friend, basically just defined what weapon spells are. And yes, I always thought since the release of factions- Weapon spells were rightfully for the mesmers.
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When buffing should exist for mesmer, then should their receive on allies castable Mantra Skills, because Mantras are the speciality of mesmers, like Glyphs are the speciality of Elementalists and so on...
however, the role of the mesmer is mainly to be a good Secondary "Support", mainly for all caster classes, and its otherwise a strong pvp class
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
What I'm suggesting for mesmers is to be more buff/debuff instead of just debuff (which is a necro thing already).
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Winterclaw
After looking over some of the necro spells, I'm going to have to agree with you in part. However I think there are a few areas where mesmers should have some more enchantment spells.
AuraofMana
Why doesn't my Warrior have rez skills?
Oh wait? Monks? What is that? I thought I had to do everything alone since after all, this is a solo game.
Oh wait? Monks? What is that? I thought I had to do everything alone since after all, this is a solo game.
Numa Pompilius
Mesmers don't need team buffs. Mesmers need better enemy debuffs, especially AoE ones.
crazybanshee
A well played mesmer is ridiculously overpowered as it is. Problem is, its hard to find a well played mesmer...
When I get pwned by one in ab I usually pm him to compliment him (doesn't happen often)
When I get pwned by one in ab I usually pm him to compliment him (doesn't happen often)
Winterclaw
That's because there are so few mesmers about. Of all my original chars, my mesmer isn't played very often. In PvE there rarely is a reason to bring one along. In PvP they can be great, but finding one who is competent is difficult, again because of fewer numbers.
One of the things is, it is a hard class to learn, requires you to study ahead of time, and then hope you brought the right build. When it works, it works. When it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
One of the things is, it is a hard class to learn, requires you to study ahead of time, and then hope you brought the right build. When it works, it works. When it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
lyra_song
Mesmers need more AOE debuffs,
They need more "visible" debuffs.
Mesmers buffs are self-buffs, not team buffs.
They need more "visible" debuffs.
Mesmers buffs are self-buffs, not team buffs.
Dean Harper
Mesmers are not meant to buff. They are meant to make enemies less effective on the battlefield.
arsie
Yeah, they need more Cry of Frustration #?$@%! things. I love those.
If mobs screamed loudly everytime they get interrupted, maybe people will appreciate Mesmers (and Rangers) more.
Of course, I already enjoy watching endless purple bars on the mobs I target.
If mobs screamed loudly everytime they get interrupted, maybe people will appreciate Mesmers (and Rangers) more.
Of course, I already enjoy watching endless purple bars on the mobs I target.
AnnaCloud9
A well-played mesmer is a godsend.
There are secondary classes you know. There never has and never will be a class that can do it all. But the right combination of professions can make a big difference.
I turned my mesmer into a pure Illusionist with a side of Air Magic (specifically Fevered Dreams w/Enervating Charge and Shellshock) after heroes were introduced, since even I have to admit the interupt ability of a hero is better than a player's (mine included). In regards to PvP, a mesmer will be your worst nightmare.
I do have to agree though, there should be more AoE hexes. Slapping Conjure Nightmare and Phantom Pain on target and adjacent foes would be faboo.
There are secondary classes you know. There never has and never will be a class that can do it all. But the right combination of professions can make a big difference.
I turned my mesmer into a pure Illusionist with a side of Air Magic (specifically Fevered Dreams w/Enervating Charge and Shellshock) after heroes were introduced, since even I have to admit the interupt ability of a hero is better than a player's (mine included). In regards to PvP, a mesmer will be your worst nightmare.
I do have to agree though, there should be more AoE hexes. Slapping Conjure Nightmare and Phantom Pain on target and adjacent foes would be faboo.
Curse You
Ever heard of the Chronomancer? Bet not, since it was something from Utopia and so got scrapped. They'd probably have been something like what you seem to want.
pumpkin pie
mesmer fast cast attribute should be nerf like necromencer's soul reaping. to only be able to fast cast, erm, say once every 1 minutes :P~ lol
no mesmer is already a very good support class, for all class as a secondary and as a powerful shutdown/interrupter imho.
so its a no sign here.
no mesmer is already a very good support class, for all class as a secondary and as a powerful shutdown/interrupter imho.
so its a no sign here.
Shuuda
Sigh, another topic of PvEers trying to make Mesmers into something their not.
gremlin
Mesmers not a support class ???
Then I guess I don't understand what is meant by support.
You get classes reducing the damaged received by players and classes increasing the damage done by players and that's considered support.
Yet if a mesmer stops the attack entirely removes skills from the enemy takes away his energy pool etc that isnt support.
Guess I will just take my mesmer off into the wilderness to die i'm obviously useless to parties.
Then I guess I don't understand what is meant by support.
You get classes reducing the damaged received by players and classes increasing the damage done by players and that's considered support.
Yet if a mesmer stops the attack entirely removes skills from the enemy takes away his energy pool etc that isnt support.
Guess I will just take my mesmer off into the wilderness to die i'm obviously useless to parties.
NamelessBeauty
??? Mesmer can take hexes out of allies, that calls support as well. Beside you can always use secondary for fast cast support such as Ward Against Melee and skills/spells alike. I really don't get your point!
Clarissa F
[skill]hex eater vortex[/skill] , [skill]cry of frustration[/skill] , [skill]cry of pain[/skill] , [skill]energy surge[/skill]
Aoe damage, CoF is AoE interrupt? Throw in [skill]arcane echo[/skill] and watch the fur fly. AoE interrupts seem pretty good for support.
Plenty of support for a mesmer that can play. A mesmer is a master of deception and illusion. Their effects go mostly unnoticed in pve, but considering you can pve with an empty skill bar, who really cares? Ask TA about good mesmer support.
Aoe damage, CoF is AoE interrupt? Throw in [skill]arcane echo[/skill] and watch the fur fly. AoE interrupts seem pretty good for support.
Plenty of support for a mesmer that can play. A mesmer is a master of deception and illusion. Their effects go mostly unnoticed in pve, but considering you can pve with an empty skill bar, who really cares? Ask TA about good mesmer support.
cgruber
I think as a PVE only attribute for every like 5 pts in Fast casting mesmer spells will effect an additional nearby enemy. Then they would be pretty decent in PVE, mes with +10 in fast casting could cast degen on up to 3 neighboring enemies (psuedo AoE).
The Little Viking
I dont get it. I have a pritty decent mesmer and use it in pve only. I use domination and illution (crap, how is it spelled? well, sound it out.) I dont have a problem with energy and can do some decent damage. not like the ele of course, but the mesmer is not an ele. And I dont use a second profession. Have taken her through all campaign without help and have had a lot of fun doing it. Yea AoE effects would be nice, but I agree they are not needed. I think it would be over powered with AoE.
as for being usless in PvE I do not agree. Those that dont want a mesmer in the group, just dont fully understand the concept of the mesmer. Mesmers are meant to mess with the brain brain more then the body.
as for being usless in PvE I do not agree. Those that dont want a mesmer in the group, just dont fully understand the concept of the mesmer. Mesmers are meant to mess with the brain brain more then the body.
N1ghtstalker
*sigh*
i'll quote guildwiki
each proffession has it's own purpose
a mesmer's purpose is to prevent their opponent to complete their goals
in other words it is to be used to prevent support and other things
if you wanna make a mesmer support then just use [skill]signet of illusions[/skill] and other skills of whatever proffession you want
but a mesmer as a supportive class is a no go for me
their main use is to turn other classes their strenght into their weakness
for example an anti melee mesmer against a warrior or a power block mesmer for an enemy monk
just my two cents
i'll quote guildwiki
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The Mesmer is an expert in indirect damage and subtle magic, focusing on manipulation of the target to sway the events of battle to its favor. Mesmers are considered by some to be a unique profession in Guild Wars. They are a profession with a steep learning curve - to become a talented Mesmer, it is important to know not only your own skills and abilities, but those of every other profession in the game. This is perhaps why Mesmers are generally one of the least used characters in PvE. Thus, it can also be difficult for players who create PvE Mesmers to be accepted into PUGs due to a somewhat common misconception of their PvP-orientation - though GvG teams will nearly always have at least one Mesmer in their ranks. Mesmers are best suited in preventing their opponent from achieving their goals, whether it be to heal, cast spells, or attack. In order to do this they make use of a multitude of spells, hexes, and enchantments. Unlike other professions, such as Elementalists, skills within a Mesmer attribute are not always related to each other by any easily defined barriers. Because skills within an attribute can focus on many and very different goals, you will often see Mesmers utilizing all four attributes at once. The patron goddess of Mesmers is Lyssa. A majority of the Mesmer's damage-dealing skills ignore armor, meaning that they will do equal damage to a Warrior with 80AL or to an Elementalist with 60AL. The primary Mesmer's base armor provides 60 armor, +10 energy, and +2 energy recovery. A starting primary Mesmer begins with 30 base energy and 4 energy recovery. The Mesmer's primary attribute is Fast Casting, which decreases the activation time of spells and signets. |
a mesmer's purpose is to prevent their opponent to complete their goals
in other words it is to be used to prevent support and other things
if you wanna make a mesmer support then just use [skill]signet of illusions[/skill] and other skills of whatever proffession you want
but a mesmer as a supportive class is a no go for me
their main use is to turn other classes their strenght into their weakness
for example an anti melee mesmer against a warrior or a power block mesmer for an enemy monk
just my two cents
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
*sigh*
i'll quote guildwiki each proffession has it's own purpose a mesmer's purpose is to prevent their opponent to complete their goals in other words it is to be used to prevent support and other things if you wanna make a mesmer support then just use [skill]signet of illusions[/skill] and other skills of whatever proffession you want but a mesmer as a supportive class is a no go for me their main use is to turn other classes their strenght into their weakness for example an anti melee mesmer against a warrior or a power block mesmer for an enemy monk just my two cents |
The best way to describe a mesmer is as an "anti-healer."
Numa Pompilius
The problem is that with the exception of e-drain, other professions do everything mesmers do but better.
Degen and hexing is better by necros, interrupting is better by rangers, hex removal is better by monks, AoE damage is done better by everyone.
Heck, Spiteful Spirit >> Empathy, and even Rangers and Elementalists have AoE caster shutdown via Choking Gas and Maelstrom but mesmers do not.
Energy drain is not a viable tactic in PvE either, because it's too weak to drain a HM boss, and draining a grunt is usually not worthwhile.
Mesmer is a great secondary class, as it allows you to use all the meaningful skills of the profession, but I really don't know why anyone would want a primary mesmer in PvE.
Signet of Illusion is fun. It allows you to waste your elite by running another class instead of your mesmer. IF it had been tied to Fast Casting, even Inspiration, then maybe it'd have been an argument for mesmers, but Illusion?
Wasted skillpoints, bad build.
The whole problem is that mesmers don't have a clear role in PvE. They can't do AoE damage worth a crap, e-drain and shutdown are expensive single-target lines which really doesn't do much good in PvE - and shutdown, interrupt, degen, damage are all done better by other classes.
Degen and hexing is better by necros, interrupting is better by rangers, hex removal is better by monks, AoE damage is done better by everyone.
Heck, Spiteful Spirit >> Empathy, and even Rangers and Elementalists have AoE caster shutdown via Choking Gas and Maelstrom but mesmers do not.
Energy drain is not a viable tactic in PvE either, because it's too weak to drain a HM boss, and draining a grunt is usually not worthwhile.
Mesmer is a great secondary class, as it allows you to use all the meaningful skills of the profession, but I really don't know why anyone would want a primary mesmer in PvE.
Signet of Illusion is fun. It allows you to waste your elite by running another class instead of your mesmer. IF it had been tied to Fast Casting, even Inspiration, then maybe it'd have been an argument for mesmers, but Illusion?
Wasted skillpoints, bad build.
The whole problem is that mesmers don't have a clear role in PvE. They can't do AoE damage worth a crap, e-drain and shutdown are expensive single-target lines which really doesn't do much good in PvE - and shutdown, interrupt, degen, damage are all done better by other classes.
N1ghtstalker
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
The problem is that with the exception of e-drain, other professions do everything mesmers do but better.
Degen and hexing is better by necros, interrupting is better by rangers, hex removal is better by monks, AoE damage is done better by everyone. Heck, Spiteful Spirit >> Empathy, and even Rangers and Elementalists have AoE caster shutdown via Choking Gas and Maelstrom but mesmers do not. Energy drain is not a viable tactic in PvE either, because it's too weak to drain a HM boss, and draining a grunt is usually not worthwhile. Mesmer is a great secondary class, as it allows you to use all the meaningful skills of the profession, but I really don't know why anyone would want a primary mesmer in PvE. Signet of Illusion is fun. It allows you to waste your elite by running another class instead of your mesmer. IF it had been tied to Fast Casting, even Inspiration, then maybe it'd have been an argument for mesmers, but Illusion? Wasted skillpoints, bad build. The whole problem is that mesmers don't have a clear role in PvE. They can't do AoE damage worth a crap, e-drain and shutdown are expensive single-target lines which really doesn't do much good in PvE - and shutdown, interrupt, degen, damage are all done better by other classes. |
a big boss can be always shut down much faster with a mesmer
i power blocked the disk of chaos and he was as good as dead after that
mesmers still have a small role in PvE
SpeedyKQ
I think the breakdown of what kinds of things each profession does is fine, including mesmers.
I will say that "Inspiration" is the most poorly named attribute in the game. Seems like they originally intended it to be a party buff line, then moved away from it but never changed the name.
I will say that "Inspiration" is the most poorly named attribute in the game. Seems like they originally intended it to be a party buff line, then moved away from it but never changed the name.
Painbringer
I have always thought a Mesmer should have access to a skill (blurrrr) of course it would have to be called something different since it is more than likely tm.
Something on the lines that party members received a 15-40% chance to block incoming attacks and 5-20 % chance of foes spells to fail when casted on a party member.
Never will it happen but a Mesmer can dream
Something on the lines that party members received a 15-40% chance to block incoming attacks and 5-20 % chance of foes spells to fail when casted on a party member.
Never will it happen but a Mesmer can dream
Dylananimus
Mesmers will always be misunderstood it seems.
From my experience however, I can say it's not the class that's weak, it's the players trying to play mesmer (no, I'm not dissing you all, just pointing something out). When I make a pve mesmer build it's pretty much always crap and I wonder why I bothered playing as one, when my gf makes a mesmer build...she seriously rocks it. The difference is...she's smarter than me, she knows the game better, she thinks ahead and knows what she's going to need. Her mesmer kicks some serious booty, and doesn't need any AoE to do it.
I always take a mesmer hench with me in 8 man teams too. I'm never aware of quite what they're doing, but I always notice I do better when I have one come along. They 'support' the party by impeding the enemy...seems pretty damn useful to me.
From my experience however, I can say it's not the class that's weak, it's the players trying to play mesmer (no, I'm not dissing you all, just pointing something out). When I make a pve mesmer build it's pretty much always crap and I wonder why I bothered playing as one, when my gf makes a mesmer build...she seriously rocks it. The difference is...she's smarter than me, she knows the game better, she thinks ahead and knows what she's going to need. Her mesmer kicks some serious booty, and doesn't need any AoE to do it.
I always take a mesmer hench with me in 8 man teams too. I'm never aware of quite what they're doing, but I always notice I do better when I have one come along. They 'support' the party by impeding the enemy...seems pretty damn useful to me.
ThisIsNi
WARK! /signed
Kattar
Not a support class.
/thread
/thread
Crippie its Tom
there are quite a few support type signets and spells. you can get some pretty nice ally helping in there. just noone uses them:/
juliets dagger
My mesmer is, without a doubt, my favorite character. You're not going and hacking away at something mindlessly; you have to use your head.
Going up against lots of casters? Migraine, Frustration/Arcane Conundrum, Power Drain, Cry of Pain, Signet of Humility and if you're smart, the Asuran skill Smooth Criminal. Hasta la byebye, caster.
Have a plethora of melee fighters or rangers? Ineptitude (nerfed, sadly), Clumsiness, Images of Remorse, Wandering Eye, any illusion-based slow-down skill . . . they're normally dead before the blind wears off.
If you know where you're going and what type of enemies are there, you can play with your build to be crazy effective.
Mesmers may not be able to nuke a clumped group of enemies, but they can sure mess with the monk who's stood behind the cluster healing like a madman.
Going up against lots of casters? Migraine, Frustration/Arcane Conundrum, Power Drain, Cry of Pain, Signet of Humility and if you're smart, the Asuran skill Smooth Criminal. Hasta la byebye, caster.
Have a plethora of melee fighters or rangers? Ineptitude (nerfed, sadly), Clumsiness, Images of Remorse, Wandering Eye, any illusion-based slow-down skill . . . they're normally dead before the blind wears off.
If you know where you're going and what type of enemies are there, you can play with your build to be crazy effective.
Mesmers may not be able to nuke a clumped group of enemies, but they can sure mess with the monk who's stood behind the cluster healing like a madman.