Shadow Refuge...back in the trash.
Splitisoda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
OK so let's have a look
- requires heavy Shadow Arts investment to offer significant(-ish) regen. As the Shadow line is bad overall, this is a big minus.
- has a 1sec casting time, which is a big risk to take in the place where you'd seemingly want to use it (in combat).
- 4 or 6 sec duration wasn't really an issue. We're generally talking 32HP here. In a way, the shorter duration is a BUFF because the (conditional!) health spike arrives sooner.
- Awesomely bad on defense. The condition for the health spike can't be met, while the regen is not enough to justify the casting time.
- Those who value self-heals tend to go /Mo for Restful Breeze, SR's main competition. Comparing them is just... unfair. That says enough.
- On a personal note: it takes up a skill slot that could have been used for something far more interesting, though this is personal preference above all else.
Shadow Refuge died a long time ago, and despite ANets recent attempts at reanimation, the trash can remains the only right place for this disaster.
Feigned Naturality, at 8 spec its 7 regen, 7 seconds.
Shadow Refuge , at 8 spec its 8 regen with 6 seconds (before this stupid nerf_
If you want the conditional health, GTFO. If i ever used a self heal as an assassin, it'll probably be when im near done with my combo. And thats normally when im right about dead. I see lots more logic in using it, then dashing away or something. The hp regen will at least save you from degen.
The fact that SR has a 1 sec casting time, makes up for the fact it has 8 second recharge. It can come back pretty fast really.
Restful Breeze, your gonna have a 2-1 second dash and then your just walking like a stick. If you do anything with it your scrued really.
Every class, exception for casters (not monks duh) should really have a self heal. If you don't, it's like saying a 4 man team is relying on 1 monk to keep them all alive, and the possible in AB, more.
- requires heavy Shadow Arts investment to offer significant(-ish) regen. As the Shadow line is bad overall, this is a big minus.
- has a 1sec casting time, which is a big risk to take in the place where you'd seemingly want to use it (in combat).
- 4 or 6 sec duration wasn't really an issue. We're generally talking 32HP here. In a way, the shorter duration is a BUFF because the (conditional!) health spike arrives sooner.
- Awesomely bad on defense. The condition for the health spike can't be met, while the regen is not enough to justify the casting time.
- Those who value self-heals tend to go /Mo for Restful Breeze, SR's main competition. Comparing them is just... unfair. That says enough.
- On a personal note: it takes up a skill slot that could have been used for something far more interesting, though this is personal preference above all else.
Shadow Refuge died a long time ago, and despite ANets recent attempts at reanimation, the trash can remains the only right place for this disaster.
Shadow Refuge , at 8 spec its 8 regen with 6 seconds (before this stupid nerf_
If you want the conditional health, GTFO. If i ever used a self heal as an assassin, it'll probably be when im near done with my combo. And thats normally when im right about dead. I see lots more logic in using it, then dashing away or something. The hp regen will at least save you from degen.
The fact that SR has a 1 sec casting time, makes up for the fact it has 8 second recharge. It can come back pretty fast really.
Restful Breeze, your gonna have a 2-1 second dash and then your just walking like a stick. If you do anything with it your scrued really.
Every class, exception for casters (not monks duh) should really have a self heal. If you don't, it's like saying a 4 man team is relying on 1 monk to keep them all alive, and the possible in AB, more.
Crippie its Tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitisoda
Every class, exception for casters (not monks duh) should really have a self heal. If you don't, it's like saying a 4 man team is relying on 1 monk to keep them all alive, and the possible in AB, more.
so if you're running a caster other than monk in RA you dont bring a self heal?
I wouldn't waste a rez on you.
I wouldn't waste a rez on you.
Splitisoda
"RA" is as far as I read.
Yes, casters CAN bring self heal, but i'd rather have them deal 70 more damage then live 1 sec more doing nothing in those seconds.
Yes, casters CAN bring self heal, but i'd rather have them deal 70 more damage then live 1 sec more doing nothing in those seconds.
Bobby2
@ Crippie: you should really consider the context of a post before you comment on it.
@ Splitisoda: I never mentioned RA. The only format where you can't ever rely upon a preset team set-up, it would be a bad reference to a more general statement. In the case of RA, I do believe one should have a self-heal. But don't try to argue SR tops RB in any way.
@ Splitisoda: I never mentioned RA. The only format where you can't ever rely upon a preset team set-up, it would be a bad reference to a more general statement. In the case of RA, I do believe one should have a self-heal. But don't try to argue SR tops RB in any way.
MIloTN
Used correctly offensively, as well as defensively, Death's Charge will mitigate more damage than SR even if its heal was unconditional.
If you're really worried about self heals in a place like RA, hell even Critical Defences is a better idea. Not that I condone its appointage on anyones bar.
If you're really worried about self heals in a place like RA, hell even Critical Defences is a better idea. Not that I condone its appointage on anyones bar.
Splitisoda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
@ Crippie: you should really consider the context of a post before you comment on it.
@ Splitisoda: I never mentioned RA. The only format where you can't ever rely upon a preset team set-up, it would be a bad reference to a more general statement. In the case of RA, I do believe one should have a self-heal. But don't try to argue SR tops RB in any way.
Well, their are 2 points from this.
RB can be better, I'll agree to this. But what MY point of view is was that it's for more suited for those chains that take forever to recharge, because your probably not gonna be using regular dagger attacks on an enemy (srsly)
Where as, lots of times I use short recharge builds so I use SR because I have the privelage of fighting until I'm dead/out of energy.
@ Splitisoda: I never mentioned RA. The only format where you can't ever rely upon a preset team set-up, it would be a bad reference to a more general statement. In the case of RA, I do believe one should have a self-heal. But don't try to argue SR tops RB in any way.
Well, their are 2 points from this.RB can be better, I'll agree to this. But what MY point of view is was that it's for more suited for those chains that take forever to recharge, because your probably not gonna be using regular dagger attacks on an enemy (srsly)
Where as, lots of times I use short recharge builds so I use SR because I have the privelage of fighting until I'm dead/out of energy.
Bobby2
Short recharge chains? *assumes MS builds
Even then I can't see a way of justifying a 1s heal spell mid-chain. It completely destroys the notion of spiking. Right now the only place a Sin should be self-healing is out of combat (eg when not spiking) and for this simple reason RB will always be way better in my book.
Even then I can't see a way of justifying a 1s heal spell mid-chain. It completely destroys the notion of spiking. Right now the only place a Sin should be self-healing is out of combat (eg when not spiking) and for this simple reason RB will always be way better in my book.
Fleeting
I think SR used to halve incoming damage while it lasted, but didn't have the conditional heal. Probably way back in the preview event.
Edit: What I'm saying is that the old SR might be better, given more regen.
Edit: What I'm saying is that the old SR might be better, given more regen.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting
I think SR used to halve incoming damage while it lasted, but didn't have the conditional heal. Probably way back in the preview event.
Yeeah, it did, waaay back when assassins did little rolls when running fast too (I miss that 
)
However, that form was too powerful - giving any class, essentially, an unlinked 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds out of every 9, screw healing.
)However, that form was too powerful - giving any class, essentially, an unlinked 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds out of every 9, screw healing.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
However, that form was too powerful - giving any class, essentially, an unlinked 50% damage reduction for 4 seconds out of every 9, screw healing. Stop being bad at PvE alex.
You know that 50% damage reduction isn't good enough when you're frenzying against stuff.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Stop being bad at PvE alex.
You know that 50% damage reduction isn't good enough when you're frenzying against stuff.
omg u noob
thats y its beter nao! 6 regen iz enuff to cancel frenzy m i rite?
You know that 50% damage reduction isn't good enough when you're frenzying against stuff.
omg u noob
thats y its beter nao! 6 regen iz enuff to cancel frenzy m i rite?
Bobby2
psh only need 3 regen
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
omg u noob
thats y its beter nao! 6 regen iz enuff to cancel frenzy m i rite?
Yus, u r riet.
Ontopic: Shadow Refuge, after 50% damage mitigation, is bad.
thats y its beter nao! 6 regen iz enuff to cancel frenzy m i rite?
Ontopic: Shadow Refuge, after 50% damage mitigation, is bad.
Splitisoda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Short recharge chains? *assumes MS builds
Even then I can't see a way of justifying a 1s heal spell mid-chain. It completely destroys the notion of spiking. Right now the only place a Sin should be self-healing is out of combat (eg when not spiking) and for this simple reason RB will always be way better in my book. Ive also seen [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] Thats a 4 second recharge.
Even then I can't see a way of justifying a 1s heal spell mid-chain. It completely destroys the notion of spiking. Right now the only place a Sin should be self-healing is out of combat (eg when not spiking) and for this simple reason RB will always be way better in my book. Ive also seen [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] Thats a 4 second recharge.
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippie its Tom
Health degen and DoT will still kill you no matter how far you run. plus speed boosts... dont help if you're crippled. Shadow refuge doesnt help you if your crippled.
Cus your going to die >.>
ShadowsRequiem
Thought it was always crap and never really any good. Though it was funny having to gank and switch to a wand just to get the + health. Though that was a looooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggggggg time ago.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splitisoda
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Originally Posted by Splitisoda
Ive also seen [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] Thats a 4 second recharge.
Takes work just be be spamming that chain without it draining your e-bar like a mofo. Can't see how this would make SR viable.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Takes work just be be spamming that chain without it draining your e-bar like a mofo. Can't see how this would make SR viable.
And it's more suspectable to shutdown than an MS/DB chain.
That combo is basically...D-Shot or Divert a single one of those skills, it's gone. MS/DB....MS gets d-shotted you still have your Death Blossom l-o-d along with the kd from HoTo. DB or MS gets d-shotted, MS on a 50% enemy should be good enough. But SR isn't good at all.
Rexion
if you want regen...
go with Shadow Sanctuary. It causes you to be blind, which will motivate you to run away and heal up. And it is 10 seconds of a 5...9...10 regen. Can't go wrong there.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexion
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
And it's more suspectable to shutdown than an MS/DB chain.
That combo is basically...D-Shot or Divert a single one of those skills, it's gone. most sins bring Golden Fox Strike to use as a secondary offhand just in case Wild Strike gets interrupted
Bowstring Badass
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
most sins bring Golden Fox Strike to use as a secondary offhand just in case Wild Strike gets interrupted
Why do something stupid like that? Golden Phoenix Strike Death Blossom Moebius Strike Critical Strike leads = lame thought we established that with the sp sins.
Rexion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
unless, you know, your playing pvp...
what do you think i am? an idiot?
i prefer prot monking or solo-ele capping. i'd never sin in AB unless my friend begs me to on my sin (which will probably happen). Besides, I'd use a completely different build and stay with my group.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
Why do something stupid like that?
Golden Phoenix Strike Death Blossom Moebius Strike Critical Strike leads = lame thought we established that with the sp sins. SP Sins? Nice to bring that up in a PvE build discussion [skill]black mantis thrust[/skill] totally pwns your argument anyway. Personally, I'm more in favour of GFS-WS than GPS in PvE. Unblockability is very nice, the short recharges even better.
fireflyry
Quote:
Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams
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Quote:
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
[DE]
Shadow Sanctuary is really only decent if you're running Mend Touch or Assassin's Remedy in your build. Not doing damage for 10 seconds because you're running away blind is retarded.
On topic with Shadow Refuge, I'd like to see the conditional heal applied at the end be if you're not attacking; as I think it would let more assassin bars benefit from it.
On topic with Shadow Refuge, I'd like to see the conditional heal applied at the end be if you're not attacking; as I think it would let more assassin bars benefit from it.
fireflyry
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phantom
Not doing damage for 10 seconds because you're running away blind is retarded.
QFT
In saying I can see it being a good heal but only in minority builds and even then only in specific situations.
In saying I can see it being a good heal but only in minority builds and even then only in specific situations.
DDL
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phantom
Shadow Sanctuary is really only decent if you're running Mend Touch or Assassin's Remedy in your build. Not doing damage for 10 seconds because you're running away blind is retarded.
Or plague touch or similar: then it's a slightly less effective blinding powder + heal.