Are any elite skills better than an avatar?

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

I'm trying to flesh out a new build and I'm wondering if there are any elite skills better than an avatar (PvE)?

I'm currently using;

Scythe - 16
Earth - 8
Mysticism - 12

Wild Blow
Mystic Sweep
Victorious Sweep
Mystic Regen
Heart of Fury
Zealous Renewal
Avatar of Melandru
Eternal Aura


Thing is, I don't really use AoM very much... so I'm thinking I might be better off replacing it with something else that causes alot of damage as it would free up two slots (AoM and Eternal Aura).

Any thoughts?

Fern Burntfist

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

Dutch Guild Of Honor

R/P

wounding strike!

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Wounding Strike, Reaper's Sweep, Ebon Dust Aura are all good, but really, skills are only good depending on what you want to use them for.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

First, your build needs more [skill=text]wearying strike[/skill].

Second...
Quote:
if there are any elite skills better than an avatar (PvE)? Naaw, not really. Nothing quite compares to deal 100+ damage a swing with Lyssa, or simply being immortal and spamming Eviscerate as Mel.

Reaper's/Wounding can be fun, but fail to match the sheer raw damage potential of Lyssa, and IMO can't compare to using Wearying on Mel.

The only elites that do something that Lys/Mel don't do better and more reliably is [skill=text]ebon dust aura[/skill]... and [skill=text]avatar of dwayna[/skill], though the areas where this really shines are few and far between.
Every other elite I'd only bother with if I was bored of the two avatars.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

If you find yourself lacking the damage department when using Melandru in PvE, bring Eviscerate, as Stormlord says (Wearying Strike), or try using Lyssa instead.

neoflame

neoflame

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

You don't really use Avatar of Melandru very much because you've inexplicably dropped the key skill on a tree's bar, Wearying Strike. Drop Mystic Regeneration for it.

EDIT: ^ holy forum activity!

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

I had Wearying Strike, but I dropped it do to not using Melandru that often.

I'm off to Sunward Marches to track down Reaper's Sweep....

distilledwill

distilledwill

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Blighty

The Legion of the Blue Blade

R/Mo

[card]Vow Of Strength[/card] + IAS + Vow Of Holy Might = serious damage.

misguiding_prophet

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/

Grenths Grasp, only if you use it with an ebong weapon

I have to say that I am quite fond of VOS, it reduces the havoc mesmers and necros and play on me

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

There are plenty of good elites: Reapers, wounding, EDA, vow of strength is ok. But as others have said, Avatars (namely lyssa/mel) beat all of those.

Aida

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

Reapers of the Doomed

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
[card]Vow Of Strength[/card] + IAS + Vow Of Holy Might = serious damage. qft thats the combo i run in PVE and let me tell you, easily pulling 200+ dmg hits with no effort is quite nice.

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

That Aura of Holy Might sounds good. I never even knew about it until I started reading this forum a few hours ago.

misguiding_prophet

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/

I freaked when I first saw the tree- barks for boobs is not what I call beautiful... Not to mention that in PVE (particularly in the harder places) you might expect some dp, which can cause Melandru to become redundant.

Of course if you prudently follow the advice Anet gives (glorious Anet...) one build may work exceptionally well one place and may not work at all in another. So I guess Avatars should be juggled with other elites, at least to just spice things up and not give you a droll experience of 1, 2, 3, click, click, run back, 1,2,3 gg, /resign.

LightningHell

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

Quote:
Not to mention that in PVE (particularly in the harder places) you might expect some dp, which can cause Melandru to become redundant. On the contrary, the health increment is all the more...not-redundant...in terms of DP, as the bonus is not affected by DP at all.

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
On the contrary, the health increment is all the more...not-redundant...in terms of DP, as the bonus is not affected by DP at all. I think he means once you're DP drops your energy below 25 you're pretty much SOL.

misguiding_prophet

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Mo/

I implied that casting it would be the problem as with DP ur energy can decrease to a point where u can no longer cast wood.

Bowstring Badass

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Wounding Strike, Reaper's Sweep, Ebon Dust Aura are all good, but really, skills are only good depending on what you want to use them for. Wounding strike is good with a conjure.

boarderx

boarderx

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

[PIG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aida
qft thats the combo i run in PVE and let me tell you, easily pulling 200+ dmg hits with no effort is quite nice. i love that combo too, fun stuff

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

What's the fastest way to raise 100,000 luxon faction (despite owning it, I've never actually played in Factions, or done much PvP)?

Cherng Butter

Cherng Butter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Maryland

The Mirror Of Reason [SNOW]

E/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by misguiding_prophet
I implied that casting it would be the problem as with DP ur energy can decrease to a point where u can no longer cast wood. Bring a staff...

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by misguiding_prophet
I implied that casting it would be the problem as with DP ur energy can decrease to a point where u can no longer cast wood. Swap to hi-energy set? Don't worry about negative energy values after swapping back to melee weapon - Zealous exists for a reason

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Can anyone think of a more random question in a thread regarding dervish elite skills (which is in nightfall not factions)? Aura of Holy Might is a luxon Dervish skill that's been tossed around in this thread alot, and I need to be level one luxon before I can buy it....

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Aura_of_Holy_Might

Destromath

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

Grenths Dark Templars [GDT]

W/E

Aura of Holy Might is actually a Kurzick skill as well (all PvE Factions skills are this way). Also, you don't need a very high title track for it to be effective (heck, it's still effective at rank 0, as the bonus damage is still roughly 35%). If you really want to increase damage but don't want to grind for it, you can try out casually ABing to get faction while having fun. However, if you really want to get more damage out of it, you can try out FFFing.

EDIT: I have got to stop posting before checking things >_<. Anyway, you can still AB or FFF to get it if you really want it.

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

Yeah, from what I read on PvX it's faster to FFF with Kurzick, but my guild is Luxon so it was easier to go that way to start with.

Anyway, I think I'll grind it out in AB. I don't have alot of experience in PvP, so this is my excuse to get myself into it.

neoflame

neoflame

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyyal Illai
I had Wearying Strike, but I dropped it do to not using Melandru that often. Why not? That is, why didn't you have it up all the time in combat?

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoflame
Why not? That is, why didn't you have it up all the time in combat? Wanted to try something different. See if there was something better out there worth trying.

Biostem

Biostem

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2007

The avatars are probably the best elites for a dervish primary. By using one of those w/ eternal aura, you can keep it up indefinitely, and by taking advantage of each avatar's bonuses, you can really maximize your performance.

neoflame

neoflame

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyyal Illai
Wanted to try something different. See if there was something better out there worth trying. I'm confused. When you say "due to not using Melandru that often", do you mean "it wasn't equipped on your skillbar very often" (in which case Wearying Strike is obviously terrible without Melandru, but is practically mandatory with AoM) or "it wasn't cast very often when equipped" (in which case your answer is nonsensical and my question still stands)?

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyyal Illai
Wanted to try something different. See if there was something better out there worth trying. Nothing is better than melandru. But variety is good.

Seyyal Illai

Seyyal Illai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canada

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoflame
I'm confused. When you say "due to not using Melandru that often", do you mean "it wasn't equipped on your skillbar very often" (in which case Wearying Strike is obviously terrible without Melandru, but is practically mandatory with AoM) or "it wasn't cast very often when equipped" (in which case your answer is nonsensical and my question still stands)? It's been on my bar for a long time as I've been running the AoM build that's on PvX, but I found I wasn't using AoM all that much as I didn't need it for 99% of the stuff that's out there (the only boss I remember maintaining it on was Abbadon, the rest I would let it lapse and finish the fight without it).

I found that the initial energy outlay was slowing down the beginning of the battle. After using AoM, Zealous Renewal and Conviction I'd get into battle with just enough energy to fire Wearying, Ermites Attack and Victorious sweep... then I'd be waiting to recharge. Without AoM I could spam the same barrage relentlessly until I ran out of energy... at which point Zealous Renewal would kick in and bump me back up 20-25 more energy, which was enough to finish a small battle. The problem was that in long battles the Wearying would drag me down.


Anyway, after having used this same build for a few months I clicked on the Discussion tab at the top of the Wiki page and found all kinds of people cutting that build up, saying things I didn't know, so I figured I'd educate myself a bit and found myself here.

For instance, yesterday I learned that Eternal Aura will recharge AoM... which would make AoM more useful in a long battle. I never knew that before because I never used AoM, so I never noticed that Eternal Aura recharged it. I was using it because it was an 88 dmg AOE spell.

That, and I never knew about Aura of Holy Might... which I really want now.

That post ended up longer than I expected.....

Sirius-NZ

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

PvXwiki seems to inexplicably lack the most powerful Melandru/Lyssa builds last I checked... they're similar in some ways, but have a somewhat different focus.

IMHO for PvE Lyssa probably has a more obvious effect... you're more at the mercy of other stuff but it does more damage than Melandru against most things.

neoflame

neoflame

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

The PvXwiki PvE Melandru fails horribly. Attribute spec is nauseating (a Major to hit 14 Mysticism?) and lists Eternal Aura (compulsory) and Mending Touch (wtf?) as variants.

Anyway, yes, the whole point of Eternal Aura is to give you perma-Melandru.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by neoflame
The PvXwiki PvE Melandru
fails horribly. Attribute spec is nauseating (a Major to hit 14 Mysticism?) and lists Eternal Aura (compulsory) and Mending Touch (wtf?) as variants.
Just looked at it...
and...

... wow. PvX is proof that even a retard can can be bad with a broken elite.

Conviction is an utter waste of attribute points, if you really want an armour boost Great Dwarf Armour is /win. No Eternal Aura is baed, using a major rune and head +1 bonus for no Mysticism breakpoint is terribaed, and no mention at all of AoHM and HoF makes kittens cry.

Just use the PvP Mel build and slot PvE skills as you see fit, that PvE variant is shit.

and edit: just checked the PvE lyssa build for the lulz... wtf is up with PvX and wasting attributes/skills just for Conviction?

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

i find most often that pvp builds work wonderfully in Gen PVE and even high end pve

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

I can't remember the last time there was a good build on PvX Wiki.

John Panda

John Panda

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

in my house

The Arctic Maruarders [TAM]

A/

only one .. wounding strike.

Lyssa Dwayna Melandrus and Wounding strike are great elites

arcane zeal is good if your running an orders build.

Sirius-NZ

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

Agreed, and sometimes a case can be made for Vow of Strength and Reaper's Sweep. Vow of Silence is useful for running builds (helps on Kurzick FFF anyway), but not much else.

The rest of the elites I have never thought of a really good use for. Hopefully if they review Grenth again it might become good, but I'm not too sure they will.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

Wow PvX sucks at dervish

Check out the dwayna one. Its just sad

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva
Wow PvX sucks at dervish

Check out the dwayna one. Its just sad I noticed that myself when I was looking at their dervish builds. None of them are any good. Doesn't surprise me really when most people playing dervish's are running AoB.

Sirius-NZ

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

The PvP Melandru one isn't terrible. I don't use Chilling Victory with it myself, though, and I'm also surprised they didn't recommend a zealous scythe considering how much energy Melandru takes.