Clumsiness nerf 06. Feb - why not damage to adjacent foes as well?

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

08 Feb 2008 at 17:49 - 1

I misread the change to clumsiness and *thought* it would now damage adjacent foes as well.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Clumsiness

But I totally misread that.

PvE Mesmers would have greatly benefit from clumsiness dealing small area aoe damage. A 2 seconds cast is no problem with only 7 fast casting either.

But now? Now it is really bad in PvP and PvE as well.

Sorry, was it really necessary to nerf this skill because of Sineptitude builds? Mistral Edge won the Tournament with "Sineptitude", but the SAD & BAD tradition of nerfing the build of he winner unfortunately continues...

Miska Bow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

somewhere, Grinding some l33t titles

Order of the Divine WoodChuck

08 Feb 2008 at 18:24 - 2

Wandering Eye: For 4 seconds, the next time target foe attacks, that attack is interrupted and all nearby foes take 10...76...92 damage.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...:February_2008

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

08 Feb 2008 at 20:21 - 3

Common Anet, why not just give mesmer the stuff they deserve?
Just make it do AoE damage instead.
While your at it, give mesmer a lot of easy to apply damage.

They are unique because they can strike through defense.However, very few skills do decent damage at all.

Ajank3r

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madison, WI

Guardians of the Ale [ALLY]

Mo/

08 Feb 2008 at 20:46 - 4

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

08 Feb 2008 at 21:50 - 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajank3r

I personally don't see the mesmer as a damage class to start with.
I see the damage spells that ARE present in their library of skills as a bonus and a good way to coordinate in spikes etc (eg. Shatter Enchantment).

Mesmer damage spells also generally come with another effect, this helps to further the primary use of a mesmer as a shutdown for a specific class/attack style (eg. Ineptitude is blind). Yes,however, they have a very long recharge and ineptitude was nerfed a LOT(Ouch!)
Why not make the skills we normally don't use and give it better damage?

Idea for wastrels worry:
You deal 10..30 damage to your target.After 2 seconds, if target hexed foe does not use a spell, that foe and all nearby foes take 10..70 damage.
(Yes, a spell)

Think about it a bit.This could really revive mesmers and it will still feel like Wastrels worry.You say its overpowered?Eles deal about 100+ aoe damage with each hit.Surely this can be equal,though.

Ajank3r

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madison, WI

Guardians of the Ale [ALLY]

Mo/

08 Feb 2008 at 22:17 - 6

Would you be keeping the condition of wastrels that it would remove itself if the hexed player used a skill?
I like this specific idea alot but I don't think that the mesmer should be adapted to fit any specific want/need such as AoE damage (although it would be great ^^)

PS -- I don't think that the mesmer was ever really alive for anyone but people who loved the class devotedly =(

Miska Bow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2008

somewhere, Grinding some l33t titles

Order of the Divine WoodChuck

08 Feb 2008 at 22:19 - 7

Revive Mesmer ?

I never go anywhere whithout Gwen. Ele boss ? no prob, she"ll make it commit suicide. As for Ineptitude with the right set of wand /focus and good energy manegement doing 114/135 dmg for 12/15 points in Illusion is nasty enough for me.

I dont play mesmer but i got 2 mesmer heroes that can be really painfull to any foes in NM or HM when combine with the right team. They'll suck up their mana, constantly interupt, they'll cause dmg will doing both and will rarely run out of energy.

/sarcasm on
So how about this for a new skill:

Gaze of defeat. All foes on the map instantly die upon casting this spell. Mana cost: 5; casting time: 1/2 sec; recharge: unnecessary
/sarcasm off

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

09 Feb 2008 at 00:54 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

But now? Now it is really bad in PvP and PvE as well. PvErs shouldn't comment on what it's like in PvP. Just as PvPers should not comment on PvE affairs. People still run an ineptitude mesmer in the sinsplits with clumsiness and wandering eye.

As for the thread in general, QQ less, think of alternatives more. I thought everyone's heard of the phrase "learn to adapt" at one point or another? Sounds more like a rant than actual discussion.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

09 Feb 2008 at 08:51 - 9

If you ignore all the doom and gloom crap, there actually is a valid point here.

According to the skill description, it should be AoE, and should deal damage to all enemies. It doesn't. This is more of a bug than a ZOMG DEY NERFED MA MESMA!

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

09 Feb 2008 at 09:13 - 10

Hex Spell. For 4 seconds, the next time target and any adjacent foes attack, the attack is interrupted and target foe suffers 10...76...92 damage.

I can see why you'd think all adjacent foes would take the damage, but it also states target foe suffers damage, not the adjacent foes.

Either way you look at it, the skill description should be changed so less people get confused.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

09 Feb 2008 at 09:23 - 11

When you carefully read it, it means that whenever any foe attacks within range of that foe, that foe takes damage. Confusing wording.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

09 Feb 2008 at 10:03 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Think about it a bit.This could really revive mesmers and it will still feel like Wastrels worry.You say its overpowered?Eles deal about 100+ aoe damage with each hit.Surely this can be equal,though. Ele's are meant to be a damage dealing class.

Mesmers are meant to be an offensive support class.

They have no reason to have equal damage capability, unless you think Eles should have equal shutdown capabilities.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

09 Feb 2008 at 15:43 - 13

I just tested it again.

The wording totally confused me, and I SWEAR it worked differently yesterday!!!
Because today it triggered not only on the target, but all foes around it as well!

It is now an AoE Hex. So you have the target and adjacent foes, and each of them gets a 4 second timer and you see the numbers popping up once they use a skill.

It is now a bit like Wandering Eye on individual basis with less aoe radius. And it works quite well this way together with the two mesmer pve skills.

Actually not bad in PvE - even very good, it is pure armor ignoring damage, after all!

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

09 Feb 2008 at 16:01 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Actually not bad in PvE - even very good, My exact thoughts when I read the skill updates. It's a skill that, now - instead of rewarding spamming on recharge - rewards battlefield awareness and punishes mobbing and training.

Careful use and timing can stop a pair of assassins mid-spike, or simply catch a whole mob of Jotun pounding on that retard ele who thinks a Sup EStorage rune is the way to go.

The 'old' Clumsiness was bad for the game by rewarding retards who spam, the 'new' Clumsiness is better for rewarding cleverer usage.

Ajank3r

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madison, WI

Guardians of the Ale [ALLY]

Mo/

09 Feb 2008 at 19:16 - 15

I agree with you on that, the updated clumsiness requires some finesse to use, although, you can still just randomly throw it on a melee character still it has alot more utility than the unupdated clumsiness had.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

09 Feb 2008 at 20:43 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Ele's are meant to be a damage dealing class.

Mesmers are meant to be an offensive support class.

They have no reason to have equal damage capability, unless you think Eles should have equal shutdown capabilities. Mesmers are meant to punish for foes' actions.
It doesn't say anything about not having any offense.
Even the monk, the team's HEALER can fight when it isn't healing.
The mesmer should also have some offense, but keeping the "punishing foes for their actions" theme.

Back on topic:
I think that clumsiness should at least be an aoe hex.This would make it a lot cooler and would add some more indirect aoe damage to the mesmer while keeping the "punish foes for their action" theme.
Its not like mesmers have a decent amount of damage skills in pve(At least, in my opinion.)

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

09 Feb 2008 at 21:19 - 17

oh I misread the description as well, thought it was an AoE hex that triggers individually on every foe.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

09 Feb 2008 at 23:03 - 18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Even the monk, the team's HEALER can fight when it isn't healing. I chuckled a bit. If you think the monk's damage is anywhere near good, then there's something wrong with your judgment.

DRGN

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

In Memorium [iBot]

Mo/A

10 Feb 2008 at 00:06 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Mesmers are meant to punish for foes' actions.
It doesn't say anything about not having any offense.
Even the monk, the team's HEALER can fight when it isn't healing.
The mesmer should also have some offense, but keeping the "punishing foes for their actions" theme.

Back on topic:
I think that clumsiness should at least be an aoe hex.This would make it a lot cooler and would add some more indirect aoe damage to the mesmer while keeping the "punish foes for their action" theme.
Its not like mesmers have a decent amount of damage skills in pve(At least, in my opinion.) I herd frenzy wanding wuz gud.

Also, I guess Clumsiness is actually kinda nice in PvE with the mobs of HURAUTOATTACK monsters, even the casters will trigger it. In PvP, eh, not enough GvG experience to really speak to it.

Torqual

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/Mo

11 Feb 2008 at 15:21 - 20

I like the new Clumsiness. Have tested it in PvE. Great for stopping a mob of 4 assassins spiking one of your squishies. Love watching all the big yellow numbers appear instead. Absolutely right above where someone says it's about tactical awareness now, instead of spam. With fast casting, the 2 sec activation doesn't even hurt primary Mesmers either.

By the way, who says that the Mesmer isn't a damage class in PvE? Maybe your builds don't do much damage but I am doing loads of it. Hint: max the Sunpear track and buy Cry of Pain and Necrosis.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

12 Feb 2008 at 13:25 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

By the way, who says that the Mesmer isn't a damage class in PvE? Maybe your builds don't do much damage but I am doing loads of it. Hint: max the Sunpear track and buy Cry of Pain and Necrosis. You can put those skills on any class with the appropriate secondaries. One of them isn't a Mesmer skill, and the other requires no Mesmer attributes. Using them to declare that the Mesmer is a damage class is like basing the effectiveness of the Warrior class on its use of Ursan.

ajc2123

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

North of the wall

Me/

12 Feb 2008 at 13:44 - 22

I like it now a LOT. I don't know what all the fuss is about. It can stop a spike in PvP (or slow it down, the warriors will prolly have frenzy on = bigger damage = freakout), and is more effective in PvE now due to its AoE range. Everyone says it was a nerf, I honestly see this as a buff to the mesmer class.

And BTW, mesmers aren't the best offensive. They CAN be, but they run support just so much better.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

12 Feb 2008 at 14:04 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I chuckled a bit. If you think the monk's damage is anywhere near good, then there's something wrong with your judgment.

He didnt say that monk damage dealing was good. He said it was better than mesmers. If were talking raw unconditional damage, then a signetsmite monk will easily outperform a mesmer.

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

12 Feb 2008 at 19:03 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

My exact thoughts when I read the skill updates. It's a skill that, now - instead of rewarding spamming on recharge - rewards battlefield awareness and punishes mobbing and training.

Careful use and timing can stop a pair of assassins mid-spike, or simply catch a whole mob of Jotun pounding on that retard ele who thinks a Sup EStorage rune is the way to go.

The 'old' Clumsiness was bad for the game by rewarding retards who spam, the 'new' Clumsiness is better for rewarding cleverer usage. Spamming? You mean like C-spacing then Frenzy/Executioners/Eviscerate?

Nah, I jest.

But seriously, Clumsiness does not take clever usage in PvE. Maybe in PvP, but not in PvE. Most PvE PuGs run a variation of Scrubway, therefore, all the melee targets are bunched, you hardly need to target anything. If anything at all, it made Clumsiness easier to operate in PuGs, which makes up a big part of the PvE we know as farming areas that cannot be soloed unless you are very skilled (And most people aren't), such as some dungeons, DoA quests, etc.

IMO, the update was /fail, and did not make anything harder or easier in PvE. It only made the difference in PvP, which again, in the eyes of PvEers who want a mesmer to do more than just shut down single targets, it's /fail.

Seef II

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/Mo

14 Feb 2008 at 04:59 - 25

The description could be better, perhaps Hex Spell. For 4 seconds, target foe and all adjacent foes are hexed with Clumsiness. The next time each hexed foe attempts to attack, the attack is interrupted and that foe takes 10..92 damage.

Wandering Eye didn't really change, but it's pretty bad compared to Clums in PvE now. I'd rather negate the next attack of more foes than go lolz yellow numbers.

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

14 Feb 2008 at 11:52 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

He didnt say that monk damage dealing was good. He said it was better than mesmers. If were talking raw unconditional damage, then a signetsmite monk will easily outperform a mesmer. No it won't, unless you want to run in and use holy strike. In which, the damage output would still be lower, because a dead monk can't do more damage than a living mesmer. Unless you count stuff like backfire and empathy as conditional, then in that case SS necros are just as "bad" as mesmers in terms of unconditional damage.